Scrutiny of Secretaries of State in the House of Lords

Chris Stephens Excerpts
Wednesday 20th March 2024

(1 week, 2 days ago)

Commons Chamber
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George Galloway Portrait George Galloway (Rochdale) (WPB)
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I congratulate the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady), my successor as the Member of Parliament for the most educated place in Britain. It was once said that the Glasgow Hillhead constituency had the highest pro rata subscription rate to the New Statesman of any constituency in the land. He showed it in the erudition, albeit on a rather Ruritanian state of affairs, of his contribution. I am grateful to him for securing this debate and for giving me time that might otherwise have been appropriated by him to make this contribution.

“Some chicken, some neck,” Mr Churchill famously said. To paraphrase Mr Churchill, some Secretary of State, some time. This is not comparable to Peter Mandelson being the Business Secretary in the House of Lords; this is a time of great international peril, where foreign affairs is undoubtedly the biggest single item in our inboxes. It must be true: there are millions on the streets. Well, it is certainly true of my inbox. There are millions on the streets about Britain’s foreign policy. There are demonstrations daily and weekly all over the country. People are seized of our role in international affairs. I have never known a time like it—and there cannot be many Members in the House who have participated in more foreign policy issues, from the 1980s until now—when our people are so occupied, and many are preoccupied, by our role in the world.

What I am about to say is in no sense disrespect for the current occupant of the Foreign Secretaryship. Quite the contrary: he is a big improvement on his predecessor, and he is a cut above his likely successor. I do not demur at all from the idea that Lord Cameron is a skilled international diplomat. Our problem, as a country which is forever lecturing other people on the quality of their democracy, is that we now have an unelected head of state, an unelected Prime Minister and an unelected Foreign Secretary, the second most important piece on the Treasury Bench. That is Ruritanian. It is actually rather absurd if you start to consider it.

The hon. Member for Glasgow North was adumbrating the possible outcomes of a lectern being erected just at that white line there. The microphones would need to be adjusted and faced that way instead of towards you, Madam Deputy Speaker. That is ridiculous. If there was a will, there would be a way. The silence from the Government in response to the Procedure Committee’s beseeching of them to find a solution to this situation is eloquent, as such lengthy silences always are.

We have a situation where daily, if not hourly, new and dramatic foreign policy developments are occurring. Just this day, for example, Prime Minister Netanyahu announced that the port being built in Gaza with the rubble of the homes destroyed in the bombing, including the skulls and the bones of the people destroyed with the houses and lying unburied under the rubble, is being built for the deportation of millions of Palestinians from the territory—an act of ethnic cleansing of the foulest kind. We would have expected a statement from the Foreign Secretary in the light of such a dramatic development, but statement came there none, and good has come there none. His able deputy—and I share the hon. Gentleman’s feelings for the Minister of State; he is a fine man, and I have known him for a very long time—cannot possibly cope with all this workload as, effectively, Lord Cameron’s deputy in this place, his vicar on earth; but even if he could, he would still not be the Foreign Secretary. We cannot continue to be a democratic country—

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
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Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Rosie Winterton Portrait Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
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Order. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will be brief, because it is very unusual for a Member to come in after an Adjournment debate has started and then to intervene. Let me add that it is important for everyone who does intervene to stay until the end of the debate.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens
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Thank you for that strict reminder, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that if he or I were to secure an urgent question, the same principle would apply and the Foreign Secretary would not be here?

George Galloway Portrait George Galloway
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Indeed, could not be here—for reasons which are what? Are they about architecture? Kindly guide me with your eyebrows as you normally do, Madam Deputy Speaker, if I am going on for too long; I am not entirely sure about the timing of all this.

As a matter of architecture, for a democratic Chamber to be bereft of the presence of its principal diplomat and the country’s principal diplomat, at a time of massive international tension, is completely absurd. On this day in 2003, our country went off to fight the most disastrous war that we have fought for well over 100 years. It was a disastrous decision, but at least it was a decision that the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary of the day were ready to, and had to, defend each and every single day. The debates—not many of us who are here now were involved in them, except thee and me, Madam Deputy Speaker—were of the fiercest and most urgent kind. But we may now be on the brink of world war three. Little Macron may be about to march his legionnaires into Odesa, creating the gravest international crisis since the second world war, and we will not be able to question our Foreign Secretary about it. We will have to wait for the morning editions to learn what the Government intend to do.

War in Ukraine, war in Gaza, maybe war against Iran, war in the Red sea, war everywhere; Foreign Secretary, nowhere—nowhere, at least, where he can be questioned by the people in this country who are elected to question him. That is the point, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is our duty to hold Ministers to account, but by definition, in this situation we cannot hold the occupant of this office to account. We talk about great offices of state. At such a time of high tension, there can be no doubt that the second most important office of state in Britain today is that of the Foreign Secretary, but he is outwith our reach. We cannot, as we once did, rub shoulders with him in the Division Lobby; we cannot even see him in the Members’ Tea Room. We cannot bump into him in the Corridor. We cannot in any way impress on him that millions upon millions of our fellow citizens and our constituents have this or that concern or point of view on the great issues of the day. This is untenable, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am seeking to inject some note of urgency and passion into this because it is an untenable situation.

I wish that it had been possible to find one Conservative Member who was capable of being Foreign Secretary. It would have been much easier, and this debate would not be happening, but none of them was up to the job. It is therefore immediately incumbent on the Government to bring forward a solution whereby we are able to look in the eyes of the second most important politician in the state and press upon him the political preoccupations that occupy the concerns of millions of us.

Draft Trade Union (Deduction of Union Subscriptions from Wages in the Public Sector) Regulations 2023

Chris Stephens Excerpts
Tuesday 30th January 2024

(1 month, 4 weeks ago)

General Committees
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Alex Burghart Portrait The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)
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I will have to jettison a large part of my speaking notes now, Mr Paisley!

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Trade Union (Deduction of Union Subscriptions from Wages in the Public Sector) Regulations 2023.

To cut to the chase, the Trade Union (Deduction of Union Subscriptions from Wages in the Public Sector) Regulations, also known as the check-off regulations—not Anton Chekhov, the 19th-century Russian playwright, but check-off—stem from section 15 of the Trade Union Act 2016. It is the last piece of secondary legislation to be brought into force as part of that Act.

The regulations aim to modernise industrial relations in the UK. They define a relevant public sector employer for the purposes of section 15 of the 2016 Act. That provision requires relevant public sector employers that allow employees to pay union subscriptions directly through payroll—a process known as check-off—to charge trade unions a cost substantially equivalent to the cost they incur for providing the service. In addition, public sector employers must be satisfied that there is an alternative way of union members paying their subscriptions aside from check-off, such as through direct debit.

Should employers not be able to secure payment substantially equivalent to the costs of providing check-off, and there is an alternative payment available to employees, employers must cease to provide check-off. That will ensure that check-off services are provided by public sector employers only where there is no cost burden to the taxpayer and to guarantee members have choices about subscription payment methods.

The regulations will not come into force until a reasonable transition period has elapsed to allow everyone adequate time to make arrangements to comply with the regulations. To that end, the regulations will come into force on 9 May 2024, six months after laying. That is a generous transition period, considering that the regulations were previously due to be laid in 2017, so employers have had a significant period of awareness of the impending changes.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
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The Minister has said that six months is an appropriate period, but during the debates on the Trade Union Bill in Parliament, the Government committed to a consultation period of 12 months, not six months. Will the Minister explain why the Government’s position has changed?

Alex Burghart Portrait Alex Burghart
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The hon. Member will be aware from my opening remarks that the Bill that floated this idea was given Royal Assent in 2016. A few international events got in the way of our completing the passage of the secondary legislation, but we think that given how much time has elapsed and how aware everyone is of the changes, there is no great problem in moving from 12 months to six months.

The Government have also provided to the House the explanatory memorandum and a full impact assessment, and we have published on gov.uk guidance to be issued to public sector employers to help them to familiarise themselves and comply with the regulations. The check-off regulations will deliver value for money for the taxpayer. The impact assessment has identified that the intervention will equate to a present benefit saving of approximately £1.5 million a year. However, I wish to be clear that the regulations stem from the Trade Union Act 2016, which was introduced in response to a 2015 manifesto commitment. As such, and despite delays owing to other Government priorities relevant to the UK’s exit from the European Union, the coronavirus pandemic and so on, this has been a long-term ambition of the Government in our aim to modernise industrial relations in the UK.

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Nia Griffith Portrait Dame Nia Griffith
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I agree with my hon. Friend. The guidance issued has considerable flaws. It was not even available when the regulations were debated in the other place in December. The guidance is non-statutory. That means that employers do not necessarily have to follow it and can decide for themselves what they consider to be “reasonable costs”. Even within the guidance, there seems to be no mechanism for trade unions to challenge employers’ calculations of reasonable costs. The guidance states baldly:

“If no agreement can be reached and the relevant trade unions do not agree to pay the amount, then the employer may wish to consider taking steps to stop administering Check-off”.

In other words, it is take it or leave it. There is no pathway or mechanism for trade unions to challenge the employers’ calculations of reasonable costs or their decision to terminate check-off. In other words, there is no redress, and the trade unions are put in a position where their only options are to pay what the employer demands or end check-off. What a disgraceful way to treat their loyal workers and their workers’ representatives.

It is as if the Government have completely forgotten, or are choosing to ignore, the immense benefits of having trade union recognition in the workplace. Up and down the country, in both the private and public sector, on a daily basis we see trade unions and employers sorting out a whole range of issues amicably. Time was when Conservative Members recognised the valuable role of trade unions, but now one would almost think that the Government are looking to pick a fight with the trade unions and their own hard-working public servants. The Government’s draft impact assessment suggests there may be

“some loss of goodwill with employees and trade unions”.

There may indeed, and I would not underestimate the value of goodwill in services where so often we find individuals going above and beyond to deliver a good service.

Returning to the guidance, it looks as if the employer has carte blanche to allege additional cost. The example is given of additional cost being justified in the case of what is called “late” notification being given by a trade union of a change in membership fees—whatever “late” may be. This is from a Government who talked about a 12-month period, then a six-month period, and now they want to implement these changes by 9 May, leaving barely three months to have everything worked out. This is from a Government who, in September 2022, with no notice sent the financial institutions into a spin and left people overnight with hundreds of extra pounds to pay on their mortgages or their rent.

On the matter of consultation, according to the draft explanatory memorandum, it sounds as if the consultation was simply to identify the various public bodies that would be covered by this legislation. We read:

“No public consultation was carried out as the principles of this provision were debated extensively in Parliament during the passage of the Trade Union Act in 2016.”

Furthermore, we are told:

“Trade union officials and others gave evidence during the passage of the Act and the Government listened to their comments.”

Make of that what you will, Mr Paisley, but I do not think the Government were doing much listening. To say that now there is no further need to seek advice or comment or to consult more widely is shocking.

There has been no opportunity for either the public or the main parties affected by this legislation—namely, the employees and the trade unions—to feed back on its implementation, because, the Government say, they did this seven years ago. If there had been proper consultation on the implementation, there would have been an opportunity for the trade unions to raise the issues of how an employer would determine costs and what the process for resolving a disagreement over the costs would be, rather than the situation of no redress that the Government are now trying to push through.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens
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The hon. Lady is making an excellent speech. Is she not concerned, as I am, that there was not only no public consultation, but no consultation with the devolved Administrations? Given that the regulations will affect public sector workers and public bodies in Scotland, it is extraordinary that there was no consultation with the Scottish Government, who are their employer and who have clear manifesto commitments on industrial relations.

Nia Griffith Portrait Dame Nia Griffith
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Indeed I am. As the hon. Member will know, reflecting the will of the people of Wales, the Trade Union (Wales) Act 2017 disapplied devolved Welsh public sector employers from the provisions of the Trade Union Act 2016. Non-devolved bodies that operate in Wales are subject to the jurisdiction of the 2016 Act, however, so there is certainly an impact on people in Wales. There should have been full and proper consultation with the devolved Governments.

I hope the Minister will address this in his concluding remarks, but will he look again at what happens if the charges that the employer wishes to impose upon a trade union for providing check-off are considered unreasonable by the trade union? Will he look at working with trade unions and employers to agree some form of mechanism to resolve a disagreement?

In the draft impact assessment, the estimates for the scale of the use of check-off range from the 10-year-old TaxPayers’ Alliance figure of 90% of the workforce to the more recent Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy figure of 65% of the workforce. The TaxPayers’ Alliance says that some 22% are already paid for by trade unions, whereas the Local Government Association says that 67% are already paid for. One would think that the Government could, without relying on external organisations, produce an accurate figure for how many employees are served by check-off and whether the costs are recovered from the trade unions. They certainly expect trade unions to have accurate information on whether their members are up to date with their subscriptions when they ballot for industrial action.

The current cost of check-off, which is estimated to be some £1.5 million, pales into insignificance when compared with the latest figures we have of nearly £10 billion wasted on personal protective equipment. Only last Thursday, the Department of Health and Social Care published its annual accounts, and figures showed that some £9.9 billion of the £13.6 billion-worth of PPE that the Department bought between 2020 and 2022 was unusable, and its value is now less than the Government paid for it. Rather than scrabbling to claw back a few pence from their employees, the Government should be making much more effort to chase down those who ripped off the British taxpayer by millions and billions, but they have done nothing to recoup that money. That is why Labour is committed to creating a powerful covid corruption commissioner to help recoup billions of pounds that has been lost to waste, fraud and flawed contracts.

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Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
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It is pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Paisley. I refer to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, my position as chair of the PCS parliamentary group and my membership of Unison, Glasgow city branch, which is one of the largest branches of that trade union.

What we have in front of us is not quite the non-controversial, bland instrument we heard about from the Minister. He suggests that a small change is being made, but of course he knows it is far more controversial than that. I think it is important to point out what can be deducted from a public sector worker’s wages other than subscriptions, as that will set the scene of what is really going on here. People can pay their bills, their council tax and their rent. They can make a charitable donation: when I was employed by Glasgow City Council, I made a regular donation to a South Africa charity founded by the great Denis Goldberg, Community H.E.A.R.T. A worker’s staff association subscriptions can be paid through deductions from wages, but a colleague sitting next to them who is a member of a trade union now faces legislation to curb that activity. It is quite extraordinary what other subscriptions people will allow to come off pay—employers of cyclists might come up with a scheme to promote cycling, for example.

We are in the collective bargaining arena, and it seems to me, as one who was a member of the Committee on the Trade Union Bill that discussed at length the arguments around check-off when the Government tried to stop it altogether, that once again we have a Government who do not understand or have little understanding of what takes place in a collective bargaining unit in a trade union organised workplace. I am concerned that the instrument reflects a bias toward staff associations and against trade unions.

I have tabled many questions on this topic in the nearly nine years that I have been a Member of Parliament. There are also legal risks: every time the Government have tried to do something around check-off, it has ended up in a court defeat for them. If they were a football team with that sort of record, they would be firmly in the relegation zone. Every time they have been taken to court around check-off arrangements, they have been defeated. It is worth quoting Mr Justice Supperstone’s remark in one such case:

“I am not impressed by the argument that check-off is only or primarily for the benefit of the union as such, rather than for its members in their capacity as employees.”

We have employees of public services who want their trade union subscriptions to be taken out of their pay packet, and the Government seem to have an issue with that. I cannot understand the Government’s fascination with this. A Government who are supposed to be all for small government and against state interference oppose voluntary arrangements between a trade union and a public sector employer. It is quite extraordinary, but we know why the Government have put themselves in that position: it is because they have for many years tried to curb the activities of the trade union movement. They are doing that because, as we all know, the benefits of trade union membership in a workplace are increased wages, better terms and conditions, and a decreased likelihood of being dismissed. That is a fact. It seems to me quite extraordinary that the Conservative party and this Government oppose those principles, on which the trade union movement of which I am a proud member was founded.

I am equally concerned about the lack of consultation with the devolved Administrations. It is quite extraordinary that we have public sector workers in Scotland, some working for the Scottish Government, some for a Westminster Department, some for other public bodies, yet there was no consultation with the Scottish Government. Is it because they would have been told by the Scottish Government that they were not interested in interfering in this regard? We know that any time a trade union has been approached to make a contribution to the employer for a check-off arrangement, it has met that request. Why do the Government want to interfere where the employer and the trade unions are happy for check-off arrangements to be made, at very little cost? It is more blue tape—not red tape, but blue tape. The most regulated part of the economy seems to be the trade union movement. It is a case of laissez faire in some parts of the economy, and Stalinism when it comes to these arrangements. It is extraordinary that the Government can go from one to the other, with no intervening period.

I am similarly concerned that the Government’s approach is in breach of International Labour Organisation rules, as we have seen in countries such as Congo, on which the ILO committee of experts reported that

“since the check-off system was abandoned…there has been no procedure for deducting trade union dues from workers’ pay.”

That is the agenda here: to have trade union subscriptions paid by other means than from the pay packet. It is a device to try to ensure that the size of trade unions in the workplace is reduced and that they are derecognised. We know that that is the Government’s agenda. This is not the uncontroversial, bland statutory instrument that the Minister presented; it is very much the opposite. If the Government push ahead with this measure, they will find themselves in court again, probably facing defeat. There are very real issues about that.

Last, there is the change from the commitment that the implementation period would be 12 months. I say this with great respect for the Minister—he and I were on the Work and Pensions Committee together, so I know how assiduous he is—that that is not an uncontroversial change because of technology; nor is it modernisation. The Government committed to a 12-month implementation period. I think it is disgraceful that they are reneging on that commitment; they need to be called out on it and to justify that change, as the Minister has not done.

This statutory instrument strikes at the heart of trade union organisation in the public sector. It is insidious, and I too will oppose it today.

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Afzal Khan Portrait Afzal Khan
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Will the Minister give way?

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens
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Will the Minister give way?

Alex Burghart Portrait Alex Burghart
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I will give way to the hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton first.

Alex Burghart Portrait Alex Burghart
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I am pleased to be able to tell the hon. Gentleman that the trade unions were consulted as part of the work we did during the passage of the Trade Union Act 2016. To be clear: for a lot of people, direct debit is much more effective. It is often much better for trade unions, too. Going back over Hansard, I noticed that in 2016 a number of trade union websites were actively encouraging members to move to direct debit, because they thought it was a better process.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens
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Trade unions were doing that because at that time the Government had stopped their members’ rights to have their subscriptions come off their wages. The Minister said—after his distasteful attack on trade unions, which I hope he will reflect on—that this is clearly a reserved area. I accept that, unfortunately, employment law is reserved to this place—it would be far better if it was under the aegis of the Scottish Parliament—but industrial relations are not. Industrial relations are between employer and employees. Why should the Government interfere in the voluntary arrangements between an employer and a trade union?

Alex Burghart Portrait Alex Burghart
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The hon. Gentleman has answered his own question. This is a matter of the relationship between the public sector employer and its employee. That is why it is a reserved matter.

In his closing remarks, the hon. Gentleman said that membership of trade unions leads to higher wages. That was not necessarily the lesson of the 1970s. I hope he will reflect on that part of history. As for his reference to Stalinism, I should probably take that in the spirit in which it was delivered, but as we are having a political dust-up, I will remind him what Stalinism was. Real Stalinism involved the death of tens of millions of people at the hands of perhaps the most brutal regime the world has ever seen, and that was the result of socialism.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens
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I listened intently to the Minister, and there are still some questions that have not been answered. In the time that we have left, and I understand that we do have time left, there may be an opportunity—

Thérèse Coffey Portrait Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)
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On a point of order, Mr Paisley. Can an hon. Member speak twice? The hon. Member for Glasgow South West has already spoken.

None Portrait The Chair
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The right hon. Lady is a very experienced Member and she will know that the Member may speak as many times as I call him.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens
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I am grateful, Mr Paisley. As I understand it, when time is available, Members can speak—

Thérèse Coffey Portrait Dr Coffey
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Only with the leave of the Committee.

None Portrait The Chair
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Order. I have ruled on this issue.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens
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Thank you, Mr Paisley. I was trying to help the right hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal.

There are still some outstanding questions. Given the Government’s track record in court in relation to check-off, how confident is the Minister that this particular statutory instrument will not lead to court action from a trade union or individual? It is important that before the Committee makes a decision the Minister tells us how tight the legislation is. This is a serious issue. The Minister is smiling, but he knows that the Government keep losing in court on this. How confident is he that if a trade union took this matter to court, it would not win?

Tributes to Sir Tony Lloyd

Chris Stephens Excerpts
Tuesday 23rd January 2024

(2 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
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I think what makes politics interesting for the people out there are great characters, and there is no doubt at all in my mind that the great Tony Lloyd was a great character. Anytime you met Tony and you left his company, you walked away with a smile on your face because there was always some witticism that he had left you with to think about. He always made you feel better about yourself and politics. I remember Tony talking to me about his great love not just for Greater Manchester but for the city of Glasgow and of course his other beloved football team, Celtic football club, which he insisted was Glasgow’s No. 1 football team. As a Partick Thistle supporter, I can only say that he was nearly correct in his summation. He was very proud of his Irish roots, as I and many others across this House are. His work with the Parliamentary Friends of Colombia has also been mentioned, and for so many of us he was a leader in raising that particular issue.

I think we always have to learn from each other, and one of my first conversations with Tony was about the vital importance of a constituency office keeping tabs on the full moon dates across the year. We all know why, don’t we? We can never say it here in public, but we know why. Full moon dates are a vital part of a constituency office’s work. I will always remember this great man and this great friend. I hope the WhatsApp messages between me and him are between us and no one else. I say to his family and to our Labour colleagues: our comradeship and our love are with you at this time as we remember the great Tony Lloyd.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Stephens Excerpts
Thursday 18th January 2024

(2 months, 1 week ago)

Commons Chamber
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Esther McVey Portrait Esther McVey
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I refer the hon. Lady to the latest list of Ministers’ interests, which was published on 14 December 2023 and included the relevant interests of all Ministers forming the Government as of 14 December 2023, including the Foreign Secretary. Our clear-eyed position on China remains unchanged and our approach of engaging directly and robustly with China in the UK national interest is the right one and is firmly in line with that of our G7 and Five Eyes partners.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
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11. Whether he has had discussions with Cabinet colleagues on the potential impact of the use of AI on the delivery of public services.

Oliver Dowden Portrait The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Secretary of State in the Cabinet Office (Oliver Dowden)
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I discuss this area regularly with Cabinet colleagues. The Incubator for Artificial Intelligence, which I announced last year, will recruit experts from the private sector, academia and beyond, who will work with Departments to rapidly and responsibly develop new applications for artificial intelligence across Government, as part of radical plans to harness the potential of AI to improve lives and public services.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens
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I join others in paying tribute to the great Sir Tony Lloyd; our thoughts and prayers are with his family today.

I thank the Minister for his answer. As the Government have started work on an artificial intelligence hit squad to eliminate civil service jobs and replace human labour, it is of urgent importance that they lay out the safeguards they will enact. The childcare benefit scandal in the Netherlands in 2021, where artificial intelligence baked in racial profiling that discriminated against minorities, highlights the necessity of strict controls and protections, so will the Minister reveal what steps they are taking to prevent the harmful use of artificial intelligence?

Oliver Dowden Portrait Oliver Dowden
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It is not the case that this is about taking jobs off civil servants; it is to enable them to do their jobs better and more efficiently for the benefit of the public we serve in this place. In respect of the measures that we are taking to ensure that we follow best practice, the Government’s Central Digital and Data Office is ensuring a high delivery of quality and regular testing of that software throughout all stages of development. In addition, there is a service assessment model, so we are taking a number of steps to ensure that we guard against the risks that the hon. Gentleman highlights.

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Johnny Mercer Portrait The Minister for Veterans’ Affairs (Johnny Mercer)
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I believe my hon. Friend is referring to Veterans UK, which is being retired because I am well aware of the plethora of issues. We have staff there who work incredibly hard but with very poor resource, and consequently the experience of veterans has not been what I want it to be. We are retiring that brand and completely revamping those services. I take on board the point about an MPs hotline, which exists in other Departments, and I can confirm that we are looking to establish the same thing in the new organisation to meet these claims.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
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T4. Given the Paymaster General’s answers to colleagues earlier, may I remind him that Sir Brian Langstaff said yesterday that compensation proposals were published in April 2023 and must be dealt with urgently? Can he confirm that Sir Brian Langstaff’s proposals are being accepted by the Government in full and that there will be no watering down of the decision of this place when the other place discusses the Victims and Prisoners Bill?

John Glen Portrait The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)
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The next stage of the Victims and Prisoners Bill in the other place will be the week after next, and that is where the Government will make clear their response to what the Commons has decided. As I said to my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) a few moments ago, the issue of further interim payments will need to be considered in the round as the Government consider the recommendations of the second interim report. We are very aware of the urgency of this. However, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman will understand, there is a lot of complexity with respect to the different cohorts and we are working on those as rapidly as we can with the experts now in place.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Stephens Excerpts
Wednesday 17th January 2024

(2 months, 1 week ago)

Commons Chamber
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Steve Baker Portrait Mr Baker
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I will answer in a couple of ways. First, only just over £1 million of that £15 million has been drawn down, which is a sign that the amount is sufficient. Secondly, the Northern Ireland civil service has recently announced that up to £10 million has been made available to assist small and medium sized businesses, with up to £100,000 available per business. The experience of her constituents—I have the figures in front of me—shows that this Government are committed to our infrastructure being ready for the future. That is partly why we are so keen to see the Executive back, with a large package to help support the stabilisation and transformation of public services, so we can get the kind of investment she refers to.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
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3. What recent discussions he has had with the Administration in Northern Ireland on the effect of increases in the cost of living on people in Northern Ireland.

Patricia Gibson Portrait Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)
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10. What recent discussions he has had with the Administration in Northern Ireland on the effect of increases in the cost of living on people in Northern Ireland.

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Steve Baker Portrait The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Steve Baker)
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The Government have taken decisive action to help tackle increases in the cost of living, including support for the most vulnerable households in Northern Ireland. We are targeting support this winter through a range of measures, including cost of living payments of £900. It remains vital that there is a functioning Executive in place that can deliver for the people of Northern Ireland, who deserve that stable Government taking the relevant decisions.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens
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I want to return to the subject of public sector pay. Public sector workers in Northern Ireland have seen their real pay fall by more than 7% over the past year. Does that not demonstrate that the UK Government’s response to the cost of living crisis is leaving Northern Ireland behind? I encourage the Minister to join the cross-party calls to ensure that public sector workers in Northern Ireland are fairly paid for their important work.

Steve Baker Portrait Mr Baker
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I am grateful that the hon. Gentleman raises this matter again. He will have heard what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said. I wish to emphasise that the money that has been made available in what is a large package for stabilisation and transformation in Northern Ireland includes a sum of money to enable public sector pay to be settled, but that is a matter to be decided in Northern Ireland. That is why we continue to press the DUP and other parties with as much force as we can muster to restore the Assembly and the Executive to deal with that.

--- Later in debate ---
Rishi Sunak Portrait The Prime Minister
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As my right hon. Friend will know, planning applications for new infrastructure are managed independently, so I cannot comment on specific cases, but I agree with her that it is important to listen to the views of local communities, such as those she represents across Suffolk and East Anglia. I know that the Under-Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero, my hon. Friend the Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew Bowie) was visiting her area recently to mark the commencement of the project at Sizewell C, and I can assure her that relevant Ministers will continue to pay close attention to her concerns.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens  (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
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Q4.   The Leader of the House last week correctly described the contaminated blood scandal as “on another level” compared with other scandals. Sir Brian Langstaff has announced today the publication of the final report of the infected blood inquiry, and he reminds us: “My principal recommendation remains that a compensation scheme should be set up with urgency. No-one should be in any doubt about the serious nature of the failings over more than six decades that have led to catastrophic loss of life and compounded suffering.”More than 100 parliamentarians wrote to the Prime Minister this week, so can he tell us when those affected will be paid compensation for their loss?

Rishi Sunak Portrait The Prime Minister
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I am acutely aware of the strength of feeling on this issue and the suffering of all those impacted by this dreadful scandal. I gave evidence to the inquiry last year, and as I said then, I recognise the suffering that thousands have experienced over decades. The hon. Gentleman will know that the Minister for the Cabinet Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury (John Glen) updated Parliament on this matter towards the end of last year. The hon. Gentleman will know that it is a highly complex issue. Interim payments have been made in some cases, and we are absolutely committed to responding to the final report as quickly as possible following its publication.

Infected Blood Inquiry: Government Response

Chris Stephens Excerpts
Monday 18th December 2023

(3 months, 1 week ago)

Commons Chamber
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John Glen Portrait John Glen
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I have not met Sir Brian Langstaff yet, but of course I build on the work that my predecessors have done. As I indicated to the chairs of the all-party parliamentary group, as soon as I was in office I set up a meeting and I was aware of the ongoing work. I now have to work out the interaction of that amendment with the work that exists and bring forward a substantial response to it.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
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This is a disappointing statement in some ways, but let me give the Paymaster General an opportunity to build trust and confidence. It is unclear in his statement whether the Government accept the principle of an independent compensation body—an arm’s length body—so can he confirm that that is the case? Does he accept that, for the victims and their families, that is a prerequisite for building trust and confidence, and that they will not accept a Government Department involved in this scandal administering the compensation scheme?

John Glen Portrait John Glen
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I am very cognisant of the 18 recommendations, and the sensitivity about the trust needed in the delivery mechanism, whatever that is. That is one of several considerations on which we need to reach the right conclusion. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Sir Mike Penning) said, I recognise that restoring trust is a serious matter on which we have to deliver.

Israel and Gaza

Chris Stephens Excerpts
Monday 23rd October 2023

(5 months, 1 week ago)

Commons Chamber
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Rishi Sunak Portrait The Prime Minister
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I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. When it comes to the release of hostages, those conversations are happening—as he can imagine—and we are diplomatically involved in applying as much pressure as we can for the unconditional and safe release of hostages. We saw welcome progress with the first two hostages released, but there is clearly more to do.

With regard to aid, again, we are having those conversations about ensuring that aid can get across the Rafah crossing safely to those people who need it. That is why diplomatic engagement with all sides is important, and we will continue our efforts with the US and other allies in the region to make sure that happens.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
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Has the Prime Minister considered calling on Israel to allow patients in a critical condition in Gaza to be medically evacuated for urgent care?

Israel and Gaza

Chris Stephens Excerpts
Monday 16th October 2023

(5 months, 2 weeks ago)

Commons Chamber
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Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
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As well as the discussions that the Prime Minister has had with his international counterparts, can he tell us what discussions the Government have had with international aid organisations, particularly on ensuring that if the Rafah border crossing is opened to allow a humanitarian corridor, the aid is successfully co-ordinated? Have there been discussions about who will take responsibility for displaced Palestinian civilians, who will have nowhere to go? Does he support the principle that those Palestinian civilians have the right to return home at the earliest opportunity?

Rishi Sunak Portrait The Prime Minister
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I am proud that we have been a long-standing, significant supporter of aid to the region, and have regular dialogue with agencies such as the UN. Our support to the UN directly helps around 5.8 million Palestinians refugees every year over the past few years. We have announced an increase in that funding today by around a third, which is significant. We will work with partner agencies to find the most effective and quickest way to get that aid to the people who need it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Stephens Excerpts
Thursday 22nd June 2023

(9 months, 1 week ago)

Commons Chamber
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Johnny Mercer Portrait The Minister for Veterans' Affairs (Johnny Mercer)
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That is a good question, and I pay huge tribute to my hon. Friend for his work over the years; he did the “Living in our Shoes” report when I was in a previous role. Veterans’ affairs are outside the Ministry of Defence because veterans are civilians, not serving personnel, and they require all those aspects of government to work for veterans as civilians. He is talking about armed forces families, and responsibility for them remains with the MOD and the Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families. I am sure he will have heard those remarks and I stand ready to assist in any way I can.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens  (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
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T2.   This afternoon, we will have a debate on the infected blood inquiry. Representatives from Haemophilia Scotland met colleagues last week in Parliament and it has called for an independent arm’s length body to be established, as recommended by that infected blood inquiry. Can the Paymaster General confirm that it is the Government’s intention to do that?

Jeremy Quin Portrait The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (Jeremy Quin)
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I welcome the fact that the House will have the opportunity to debate the infected blood inquiry this afternoon. I look forward to the debate and I hope other Members will be able to be present for it. The Government have not yet set out their final deliberation on the arm’s length body; an awful lot of work is ongoing. A detailed study was undertaken by Sir Robert Francis and we had a fine second interim report from Sir Brian Langstaff. We are still working through the implications of that and we continue to do so.

Infected Blood Inquiry

Chris Stephens Excerpts
Thursday 22nd June 2023

(9 months, 1 week ago)

Commons Chamber
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Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
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First, as others have, I pay tribute to the co-chairs of the all-party parliamentary group on haemophilia and contaminated blood—the Father of the House, the hon. Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley), and the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson)—for securing the debate. As a vice-chair of that APPG, I thank them for all their work. I also thank my good friend, my hon. Friend the Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart), a former chair of the all-party group, who set up a meeting last week with groups such as Haemophilia Scotland and the Scottish Blood Infected Forum. I pay tribute to those campaigners, as well as to my constituents Cathy Young, Nicola Stewart and Paul Gallagher, who are regularly in touch with me about this issue.

Peter Bottomley Portrait Sir Peter Bottomley
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May I, through the hon. Gentleman, say how important Scottish participation has been to the whole UK campaign? Those involved provided a lead, they have always been there and we are very grateful to them.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens
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I am very grateful to the Father of the House for those kind words, and I am sure campaigners in Scotland will be very grateful to hear them. Those campaigners are driving us all on. They are driving us on to continue to fight on their behalf and to continue to seek justice, because they have been met for far too long, in my view, with prevarication, procrastination and delay, and as a community, they have often been subjected, marginalised and ostracised.

Jamie Stone Portrait Jamie Stone
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The hon. Member is quite rightly pointing out the Scottish dimension to this. Earlier, I mentioned Mr Robert Ross, who lives in the north highlands, and of course this problem is all over the UK. That is the point. In the four corners of the UK, it is a huge issue, and it matters to people whether they be in the highlands, London or Cornwall.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens
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I absolutely agree with that, and I thank the hon. Gentleman for pointing it out. If I led him down another political path, I apologise for that.

I want to make it clear that there are far too many people who have been marginalised and ostracised as the result of this scandal, and that includes those who suffer from hepatitis B. I have had to write to Sir Brian on behalf of the Scottish Infected Blood Forum, because on page 31 of his second interim report, he shows that hepatitis B has clearly been found to be one of the infections passed on by contaminated blood products and should therefore be included in the compensation scheme, but that recommendation did not appear among the actual recommendations of the report. I have written to Sir Brian to seek clarification on that issue, because I believe that clarity should be provided. However, that should not delay what we are asking the Government to do.

Those who either watched or were in the Chamber this morning for Cabinet Office questions will know that I took the opportunity to ask the Paymaster General whether the Government accept the principle of the arm’s length body overseeing compensation payments. I see that the record is now up online for those Members who want to view it, and it has the Minister saying that the “Government have not yet” made any final determination on that particular issue. I have to say that I was very disappointed to hear that from the Paymaster General, because I do believe that the principle of an arm’s length body to oversee the compensation payments must be agreed today.

There seems to be a suggestion in previous statements from the Government that they are looking at alternative ways of doing this. I hope that they are not going to look at things such as, for example, how they administer personal independence payments in dealing with this, because if that is the way they want to look it—and I will be polite about this, Mr Deputy Speaker—the Government should jog on.

The Government need to agree the principle of an arm’s length body. Why is that important? It is important for a number of reasons. We know that there are issues to do with death certificates. The Father of the House has raised consistently for a number of years the fact that we know that some people’s death certificates do not really reflect what happened, because of stigma and because of other issues. That is something that an independent arm’s length body would have to determine. It would have to look at death certificates and those issues.

Such a body would also have to look at the fact that there are people who, as I understand it, have not been getting interim payments because they are in a cohabiting couple relationship. The Government have already conceded this point when it comes to bereavement support payments for cohabiting couples. I know that because I am one of the Members of Parliament who have been pushing for the Government to accept that principle. They have now accepted the principle in law that people can apply for bereavement support payments if they are in a cohabiting couple relationship.

An arm’s length body could also determine the issue of carers, which I feel passionate about. We know that there are carers and family members who have looked after loved ones for decades. They have had to give up their careers and educational opportunities, and they had to do that to care for those loved ones. I want a statement from the Government today that recognises the whole issue about carers and those who have had to care for their loved ones.

I am going to make a prediction. I know that is very dangerous in politics, but I am going to make a prediction that we will hear the phrase “working at pace” when the Paymaster General rises to his feet. I already have a £5 bet with another hon. Member on that. Can I say that it does, I am afraid to say, look like a snail’s pace, rather than anything else? The fact is that there have now been suggestions that rule 9 requests from the inquiry have been given, as I understand it, not just to Government Ministers, but to the Leader of the Opposition. He may very well have received a rule 9 request on the simple basis that the Leader of the Opposition is in the unique position that he could be sitting on the other side of the Chamber at some indeterminate point in the future. I think the Minister does need to answer the question whether rule 9 requests have been given, because there is a very real concern about Government statements saying they are looking at alternative schemes.

I want to join the hon. Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery) in asking this question, which seems a very simple one: who is the lead civil servant in the Cabinet Office dealing with this? We know it was Sue Gray, and we know that she applied for some other job and may or may not be in that job, but who is the lead civil servant for Members of this House to contact about what is happening on this issue and where the Government are on it? I hope the Minister will be able to tell us.

I join others in this House in saying that all we are asking for is justice—a simple ask. We want to see those who have suffered through this scandal receiving the justice they so rightfully deserve.