Tuesday 22nd February 2022
(2 years, 3 months ago)
Lords ChamberFinance Act 2022 View all Finance Act 2022 Debates Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: Consideration of Bill Amendments as at 2 February 2022 - large print - (2 Feb 2022)
Baroness Kramer (LD)
My Lords, this almost feels rather an anti-climax—in a sense, I feel privileged to have been able to sit through that crucial, important debate. This is a very technical Bill. Normally at Second Reading I would take the opportunity to discuss the broader economic issues, but we have done that again and again in this House.
I will pick up on the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, in particular; I agree with so much of his analysis of the condition, although I do not necessarily agree with his solutions. However, the point he made that crystallises the problems we face is the forecast growth rate of 1.3%, with a rate the following year of 1.2%. At that level of economic growth, we cannot sustain the public services and general living style of our population today. Will the Minister go back and try to get somebody in the Treasury to truly take seriously some of the economic issues we are facing? They are not just a series of small, isolated issues; they add up to a critical problem that the Government will have to grapple with. Nothing we have seen grapples with the extent and depth of that problem. I will focus on a few particular points in this Bill; as I say, it is highly technical, but sometimes those technical pieces have consequences.
I start with the reduction in the bank levy from 8% to 3% from 1 April 2023. Taxpayers’ contribution in the form of CBILS, BBLS and bounce-back loans amounted to some £80 billion of support for businesses during Covid; it was vital, but that same money also cushioned the banks. This week, Britain’s four major high street banks are anticipated to report some £34 billion between them in full-year profits and to follow that with payments of huge bonus pots to senior bankers. To quote the FT,
“banks are unveiling the sort of payouts that prompt a run on champagne”.
This is against the background of a rise in NICs of 1.25% for some of the lowest-paid workers and a cost of energy and living crisis for much of the population, who are now facing a choice of “heat or eat”. The Governor of the Bank of England encouraged workers not to ask for pay rises to limit inflation, but his words have clearly not discouraged bank bonuses on the back of some of the highest windfall years that our major banks have experienced. How on earth in that situation do the Government justify a cut in the levy for the banks?
I move on to the issue of freeports, primarily because it directly reflects on the issues we discussed on the Floor a few moments ago. I have raised this issue in the context of the National Insurance Contributions Bill, to which this House was good enough to pass an amendment. The amendment required that for businesses operating in a freeport, there has to be a public—I stress “public”—register of beneficial ownership. We know that freeports are a lure for criminal activity and money laundering because the normal disclosures which are made through customs and tax are not available. We know now that the Government have asked the freeports to have registers of beneficial ownership, but they have declined to make those public, even though they lecture virtually the entire world on the importance of public registers, because then civil society, activists, journalists and others can shine a light on wrongdoing, and only then does it become effective.
Will the Minister go back and say that, when the National Insurance Contributions Bill reaches the Commons again, the Government will change their approach and provide a public register? Otherwise, we are taking a step backwards and providing yet more mechanisms for people who want to launder money. Indeed, in the freeports, since we make them tax attractive, we are basically offering not only money laundering but tax-enhanced money laundering. That is absolutely the wrong message, and we should not believe for a second that Putin’s henchmen and autocrats have not noticed and are not planning to take advantage.
This leads me to ask why the provisions to make a public register of the beneficial ownership of property in the UK—which has been promised over and over—have not been included in this Bill. We know that that legislation has been written and has been sitting on the stocks for weeks now, if not months, and the Government have chosen not to bring it forward. I think we need to understand why the Government are holding back.
I think the noble Lord, Lord Butler, referred to the Economic Affairs Finance Bill Sub-Committee report— I have the privilege, as he does, of sitting on that committee—which looked at the issue of basis period reform. I will not pre-empt speeches which I hope the noble Lord, Lord Bridges, will have the opportunity to make at a later date. He was unable to be here today. But when we as a committee reviewed the case for basis period reform, which now sets the fiscal year for all businesses in the UK as between 31 March and 5 April, I have to say that we were not impressed, to put it mildly. The noble Lord, Lord Butler, addressed many of the reasons why: flawed consultation, rushed proposals, and the fact that a compelling case was not made that this was either simplification or a prerequisite for making tax digital.
There are two things that absolutely stuck in the gullet with this. During the transition period, some companies will be paying tax on profits made over 23 months rather than over a single year. I know the Government are going to allow them five years to make those payments, but a whole lot more flexibility would have been extremely welcome, and I do not understand why it has not been given. The Minister herself mentioned overlap relief—the problem that start-up businesses often have more than one year’s-worth of profits falling into a particular tax year—and that as we go through the transition period, companies will be able to offset any excess profits by subtracting or by qualifying for overlap relief. But, as she said, so many of those companies do not have the records. HMRC has the wretched records, but it is not committed to delve into its resources and provide them, or else reconstruct them from the data that it holds. Will she please go back to HMRC and tell it that it has to act in the interests of taxpayers and make that effort?
However, I have a particular issue that concerns me far more than the transition issues. It is the permanent impact of requiring a significant number of companies in the UK to use a tax year end that makes no sense for their business cycle. Some of this applies to large international partnerships that will now have a different tax year end for their operations in the UK and in other parts of the world—but they can afford all the expensive lawyers and accountants. However, I am concerned about the farmers for whom a March/April year end is entirely inappropriate. They depend on a summer growing season and have no control over weather and prices. I look at the hospitality sector, and again it is highly volatile and highly seasonal and a 31 March to 5 April year end is completely wrong. This applies also to a lot of small seasonal retailers. Those entities will now have to estimate—and given the volatility it is basically “guesstimate”—what profits they will make during that season in order to report their taxes. At the very least, these little companies will need to hire some very expensive accountants and lawyers, and at worst they will constantly be filing tax forms that contain significant and wide-ranging errors.
I just do not understand why, at a time when technology would allow us to deal easily with variable tax year ends, the Government have made the decision to push everybody into this very narrow 31 March to 5 April band. For years, when we dealt with taxes by pen and paper, we accepted the importance of variability, but now that we have programs that can deal with it, the Government have decided not to. The only thing I can think is that they hope through these various measures to up-front a whole series of tax payments because of that transitional year to give them a buffer ahead of the next election. It makes absolutely no sense otherwise and, as we say, it has nothing to do with making tax digital: in fact, making tax digital should enable you to deal with the variability.
On the issue of uncertain tax treatments, mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Butler, let me just say this. This is a notification of uncertain tax treatments issue and is absolutely classic. Companies that are determined to do the right thing and not take any risks on tax and make sure that they think through everything will spend a fortune trying to comply with the new notification requirements, and the companies that intend to take risks will make very little effort and will probably get away with it. Again, I cannot see why on earth the Government have brought this in.
Because of the time I just want to say something very quickly about a letter that the FBSC has written to the Financial Secretary on off-payroll working. It raised a lot of questions about the CEST—check employment status for tax—tool to determine whether contractors fall inside or outside IR35. The Government really are not taking seriously, I think, the 20% of requests to the CEST system that come back with the result that says “unable to determine”. It is a tool that needs to be refined to deal with that big 20% number and also to reflect the other issue missing from the test that undermines confidence in it, which is that it needs to reflect the mutuality of obligation test for whether one falls inside or outside IR35.
However, underlying all of this is the concern that the Government are still not implementing the Taylor review, which could provide a holistic framework for self-employment. We are moving into a nonsense where we will have people paying tax as if they are employed but having few of the rights of being employed. I think everyone can recognise that that is both unfair and inequitable. Perhaps the Minister will give us an update on what is happening with the Taylor review.
The Finance Bill was also remarkable for what it did not do, and here I am picking up some of the points made by other noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett. It did not set up a windfall tax on fossil fuel producers with record profits. That could have raised £5 billion to £10 billion. It did not rectify the injustice done to the 5 million excluded self-employed people who got no Covid help. It did not reform the unfair business rates system, rather than just provide short-term relief.
There is one particular issue which small businesses had really hoped would be caught at the time of this Bill—and it was not. As the Minister will know, big businesses are very successful in the recruiting market, stripping people away from small businesses because they can afford to pay joining bonuses and higher wages. As a consequence, small businesses are suffering disproportionately from the labour shortages we are now experiencing. This could be combated by significantly increasing the small business employment allowance. I notice that the Federation of Small Businesses is calling for this. It seems like a small measure—not even an expensive one—but it would make a huge difference by at least providing small businesses with something of a level playing field through the recovery.
There is so much more to say about the economy and about this Bill, but I think I have exercised the patience of the House enough.
Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for introducing this Finance Bill, and to other noble Lords for the contributions they have made.
I am particularly grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Butler of Brockwell, for presenting the work of the Finance Bill Sub-Committee. While the sub-committee’s report focused on just two measures in the Bill, its observations were all too familiar: this is a Government who rush ahead, irrespective of evidence base and without regard to reputational impact.
The work of the Finance Bill Sub-Committee always creates an almost democratic dilemma. An enormous amount of effort goes into the presentation of these reports, and the depth they go into is really powerful, yet it has so little impact on what actually happens. Indeed, I am committing this sin by the fact that I am no longer going to talk about it, other than by talking about the general economic situation. Somehow or other, we must find a way of engaging these talents, especially as so much of the control of the financial services in the future is going to be generated by regulation which will not come before the House. However, the institutions involved in generating this regulation want engagement with parliamentarians and we must find a better way of making that happen.
This has been a very interesting debate, although it must be noted that the Finance Bill seems to attract less interest with each iteration. Today, we have had no Conservative Back-Bench speakers. I am sure there are many reasons, but perhaps one is a growing frustration with the Chancellor’s handling of the economy. If so, who could possibly blame them? The Prime Minister continues to insist that the UK has the strongest economic performance in the G7. This was true over the past year—for reasons I will come on to—but it is no longer the case. Indeed, if we look at the last quarter, the UK ranks fifth out of seven—much closer to the last place than the first. Just over a week ago, the Chancellor said that the fastest annual growth rate since the Second World War amounted to proof that the Treasury was
“making the right calls at the right time.”
Based on their experience of the last two years, I am sure that many creative freelancers and hospitality businesses would vehemently disagree. Given the nature of his resignation, so would the noble Lord, Lord Agnew.
What Mr Johnson seems less keen to stress each week at Prime Minister’s Questions is that the UK experienced one of the largest contractions of any economy when GDP fell by 9.4% during 2020. Annual growth of 7.5% in 2021 may look flattering, but that headline hides several other pieces of bad news. In its latest release, the ONS revised down its initial estimate for Q3. It also noted that, when studying quarterly GDP figures, the economy remained 0.4% below its pre-pandemic level. Looking at monthly figures, it appears that the economy may now match its pre-pandemic level, but that achievement was marginal when considering that GDP fell by 0.2% in December. The Office for Budget Responsibility and other forecasters expect GDP growth to be sluggish in the coming years —just as it has been for the bulk of the last decade. The rate of quarterly growth which puts us fifth in the G7 is far more typical of this Government’s economic performance than the annual growth witnessed last year.
I do not want to labour the point, but in honour of the Deputy Chief Medical Officer, who will shortly move on from his role, there is room for a sporting analogy. The current political and economic situation in this country is akin to a football team on the brink of relegation. The manager, knowing that his job is on the line, is keen to talk up any minor victory. In this case, despite conceding an early, embarrassing own goal, a late equaliser is presented as the result of a tactical masterstroke. In truth, the team’s form remains unchanged; there is no sign of an upturn in its fortunes. The manager’s head is still very much on the chopping block and, despite their attempts to paint a positive picture, the supporters see right through it.
Budgets and Finance Bills are the ultimate expression of an Administration’s priorities. There are some items in this Finance Bill which make sense but, taken as a whole, it fails to address the many fundamental problems which are holding back the British economy. With the Chancellor’s recent economic statements having done little to help working families, there can be no surprise that this Bill does nothing to ease the mounting pressures of the cost of living crisis.
It also does nothing to make the tax system fairer. It facilitates tax reliefs for experimental freeports and lowers the banking surcharge at the same time as the tax burden is due to hit its highest level in 70 years. The hit to family finances comes alongside inflation that has hit 5.5%. Worryingly, it is expected to rise further still, far exceeding the predictions published late last year.
While the measure is not contained in this Bill, on energy prices, the Chancellor has offered only a glorified buy now, pay later scheme. Why, as we discussed during an earlier Oral Question, has he not imposed a windfall tax on the very energy companies which have recently announced billions in profits, share buybacks and dividend payments?
The Government may have capped rail fare increases but many household bills are due to go through the roof. Many essential costs, including broadband and phone subscriptions, will rise by 10% or more from April. Ordinary people are suffering, in some cases having to choose between heating and eating, at the same time that HMRC systematically fails to act on fraud and economic crime.
The Bill establishes an economic crime levy, which we welcome in principle, but monitoring and enforcement agencies have been warning central government for years that they are being outrun and outwitted by criminal gangs. The lack of action over many years means that criminals have been allowed to operate not one but several steps ahead of the bodies tasked with chasing them down. The levy may help address that in years to come, but in many senses the horses have already bolted.
The Commons Public Accounts Committee noted that HMRC has effectively written off £4 billion-worth of fraud. The Treasury continues to dispute that figure but cannot name a more accurate one. Can the Minister provide one today? The PAC has labelled the Government’s plans to recover money as “unambitious”. It says that HMRC’s customer service has collapsed, and that there is a lack of concerted action to tackle tax avoidance. In the words of Dame Meg Hillier:
“Every taxpayers’ pound lost to a fraudster will lead to honest ordinary people feeling the post-pandemic pinch harder and harder.”
It seems that the Chancellor’s Eat Out to Help Out scheme also attracted fraudulent claims, meaning that potentially it spread not only Covid but a perception that fleecing the taxpayer will come without punishment. This is all the more baffling as successive Conservative Administrations have talked tough on benefit fraud. While individuals clearly should not seek to exploit the social security system, many thousands have faced severe financial sanctions for innocent mistakes. Why is it one rule for benefits claimants and another for businesses and criminals?
The Prime Minister talks tough on fraud but is failing to act over Russia. He has recently warned that an escalation in Russian aggression against Ukraine could lead to steps to expose Russian beneficial ownership of firms in the UK. We have been waiting for—indeed, we were promised—public registers of beneficial ownership for years. However, at every opportunity, the Treasury has ducked the challenge. Why are the Government using this threat as a diplomatic tactic? Is it not in the public interest to address money laundering, regardless of the state of international affairs? Why has not a single unexplained wealth order been issued during Boris Johnson’s premiership? The Foreign Secretary recently identified these as the main tool in the fight against corruption. Have the Government thrown in the towel?
We will not oppose the Bill, but we do not see it as credible. It is yet another example of the Government’s failure to adequately address the cost of living crisis, economic crime and other pressing issues. It increasingly feels like the Chancellor is simply going through the motions, rather than steering the economy in the right direction. He may well be biding his time for a leadership bid, but that should not be so apparent to the rest of us. While he holds that great office of state, he has a responsibility to the people of this country. They are assiduous in paying their taxes and following the rules, and they elected this Government to spend that money wisely. It is hard to believe the Chancellor is living up to that duty when one looks at the Bill before us.
Baroness Penn (Con)
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. In closing, I will focus on responding as far as possible to the many and varied points raised.
The noble Lord, Lord Sikka, asked about the different tax treatment of earned and unearned income. The measure in the Bill increasing dividend tax rates by 1.25 percentage points for all bands is precisely to ensure that those with dividend income contribute to the health and social care spending settlement, as well as those with earned income. This measure supports the Government’s objective of raising revenue to fund our national priorities while also helping to limit the incentive for individuals to work through an incorporated company and remunerate themselves via dividends rather than wages to reduce their tax bill. I also point out that dividend income is paid out of corporate profits, which are usually also subject to corporation tax.
The noble Lord also raised various tax reliefs, specifically for video games, films and TV. They are available only to productions that pass the British cultural test. The production is considered against a range of criteria—not just where it is set but where it is made, and the nationality of the personnel involved in making it. The Government recognise the valuable economic and cultural contribution of the video games industry and other cultural industries. The video games tax relief has supported £4.4 billion of UK expenditure on 1,640 games since its introduction in 2014. I reassure the noble Lord that HMRC keeps these reliefs under review. An external evaluation of the video games tax relief was published in 2017, and a review of the film and TV reliefs is currently under way.
I also noted the request by the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, for information about tax reliefs to be set out at each Budget. I will take his suggestions back to the Treasury. He also asked how the global minimum tax rate will be assessed. The UK is proud that, in October 2021, more than 130 countries signed up to a new global minimum tax framework that built on a deal brokered in principle by the G7 during the UK’s presidency of that grouping. The OECD has published the model rules for pillar 2, which will help to ensure that multinational groups pay a minimum level of tax in each jurisdiction in which they operate, and the UK Government have now published a consultation on how those rules will be implemented in UK domestic legislation.
The noble Lord, Lord Razzall, asked about the timing of the health and social care levy, given pressures on household budgets, and the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, spoke more generally about the impact of high tax burden in the UK. I would say to noble Lords that the Government are committed to responsible management of public finances, and the plan for health and social care will lead to a permanent increase in spending. It is important, therefore, that that spending is fully funded, particularly in the context of record borrowing and debt to fund the economic response to Covid.
The health and social care levy will allow the Government to implement necessary adult social care reform, tackle the elective backlog in the NHS as it recovers from coronavirus, develop our pandemic response and preparedness, and ensure that the NHS has the resources it needs through this Parliament. These are things I hear noble Lords call for time and again in debates in this House, and the decision to implement the health and social care levy is the mechanism that means we can afford to do them. I would also point out that the highest earning 15% will pay over half the revenues, and 6.1 million people earning less than the primary threshold and lower profits limit will not pay the levy. The levy also applies to businesses; as those businesses benefit from having a healthy workforce, it is only fair that they contribute.
On the more general point made by the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, the fact is that the Government remain committed to fiscal responsibility and funding excellent public services. It is vital not just to borrow to fund those services but to fund them fairly, with both businesses and individuals contributing. That is why the Government have had to make difficult choices, but those choices mean we are now bringing debt under control and investing in public services.
The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, raised the question of economic growth. I would say to noble Lords that this Government are absolutely seized of the need to drive up productivity, which is why there is such a focus on investment in recent budgets and in the measures in this Finance Bill.
The noble Lord, Lord Razzall, also asked about universal credit. The Government have reduced the universal credit taper rate from 63% to 55% and increased universal credit work allowances by £500 per annum to make work pay. This is essentially a tax cut for the lowest paid in society, worth around £2.2 billion in 2022-23. The change also means that 1.9 million households will, on average, keep an extra £1,000 on an annual basis. That will be combined with the national living wage increase of 6.6% to £9.50 per hour in April 2022 for those aged 23 and over, which will benefit over 2 million workers. Since its introduction in 2016, the national living wage has increased the pre-tax earnings of a full-time worker by over £5,000 a year. That increase is consistent with the Government’s target to go even further and raise the national living wage to two-thirds of median earnings for over-21s by 2024, provided economic conditions allow. That is an ambition to abolish low pay in this country altogether, which I hope will be welcomed across this House.
The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, and others raised the issue of the windfall tax. The noble Lord, Lord Razzall, and others also asked whether our approach to support households with the cost of their energy bills is the right one. I do not want to go over all the ground we covered in Oral Questions earlier today, but I would say to noble Lords that the UK Government do place additional taxes on the extraction of oil and gas. Indeed, the headline tax rate charged on the profits from UK oil and gas production at 40% is currently more than double that charged on company profits in most other areas of the economy. To date, the sector has paid more than £375 billion in production taxes.
Noble Lords expressed scepticism about ensuring that there is adequate investment in this sector to secure ongoing energy security and the feed-through that that will have on people’s household bills. In 2020-21, investment in the sector was at an all-time low; that is part of the context in which we need to think about the arguments for a windfall tax on those producers. An abrupt tax change would create uncertainty and potentially deter significant investment opportunities.
As I said earlier, the Government have set out a significant programme of support for households with their energy bills, worth more than £9 billion. I must disagree with the characterisation of the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, of that support as “buy now, pay later”. A large part of that support is a £150 rebate on council tax bills for all homes in bands A to D. This is a more targeted approach than the VAT cut proposed by the Benches opposite; it also gets support to households faster because the rebate will be available from April, whereas a VAT cut would be spread across the course of the next year.
The noble Lords, Lord Butler and Lord Tunnicliffe, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, touched on the work of the sub-committee that is looking at the Bill. I thank it for its incredibly detailed work. It is an incredibly important part of the system that we have and the contribution that this House makes to these processes, even though we do not amend or vote on Finance Bills. Speaking from the Treasury’s point of view, I know that that work is taken incredibly seriously, is looked at in detail and provides a contribution to the process.
The Treasury’s assessment is that basis period reform creates an ongoing administrative burden saving of £1.1 million a year for business, but the Government are planning further engagement to explore whether and how to introduce easements to reduce possible associated administrative burdens. In agreement with the committee’s recommendation, the Government will reassess the administrative burdens and savings of basis period reform in the course of exploring these options for easements. The Government have delayed basis period reform in response to consultation feedback, giving businesses and accountants more time to prepare. The transition to the new tax year basis needs to take place before Making Tax Digital is introduced, to avoid hard-coding complexity into the new Making Tax Digital systems.
Noble Lords also asked about HMRC’s resources for the Making Tax Digital income tax self-assessment. The spending review process between HM Treasury and HMRC considers demands on the department, including on both customer service and policy development, to arrive at an agreed spending settlement that ensures that HMRC has sufficient resources and capacity to deliver its commitments and service levels. HMRC is confident that it has the resources it needs.
Many noble Lords raised the Government’s efforts to tackle economic crime. Indeed, we heard some discussion of that in the Statement repeat we just had. The Government are absolutely clear that we will not tolerate criminals profiting from dirty money, and that we will do whatever is necessary to bring such criminals to justice. The economic crime plan of three years ago was a landmark piece of work that brought together government, law enforcement and the private sector in close co-operation. I will not repeat all the measures that we have taken under that plan, but we have undertaken around 7,900 investigations, 2,000 prosecutions and 1,400 convictions annually for stand-alone money laundering or cases where money laundering is the principal offence. We have restrained £1.3 billion and recovered £1 billion since 2014 using the Proceeds of Crime Act, civil recovery and agency-specific disgorgement mechanisms.
The Government are bringing forward significant investment to tackle these crimes, including through, in this Bill, legislating for the economic crime anti-money laundering levy. I reiterate to noble Lords the Government’s commitment to reforming Companies House and the register of overseas entities’ beneficial ownership. As we heard from the Prime Minister earlier this month, the Government are committed to bringing forward an economic crime Bill to deliver those reforms.
The noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, and the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, raised the issue of the bank surcharge and, in particular, pointed out the support that the Government provided to business during the pandemic through bounce-back loans, CBILS and so on. That is exactly why we are asking business to contribute to the costs of the recovery. The combination of the corporation tax increase and the new bank surcharge rate means that banks will have a higher rate of tax under the new regime than currently.
The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, asked a specific question about the Commons Public Accounts Committee’s claim that HMRC has effectively written off £4 billion of fraud and what the Treasury’s assessment of that is. We do not recognise any claims that we have written off any money. We definitively have not and do not intend to do so. Over the course of this financial year and the next, HMRC expects to recover another £800 million to £1 billion of overclaimed grants on top of the £500 million already recovered to date. Beyond that, we are not giving up on this. We continue to seek to recover everything we can. These overclaimed grants result from error as well as fraud and, where individuals have made genuine mistakes, HMRC will help them to put things right.
The Finance Bill comes before us in a significantly improved economic situation. The Government are rightly focused on economic recovery. In 2020, this country experienced the deepest recession on record, but thanks to the actions this Government have taken, including the vaccination programme, we have recovered fast.
Lord Bilimoria (CB)
I thank the noble Baroness for giving way and appreciate her efforts to answer many of the questions I raised in my speech. I would be grateful if I could have a written response to the ones she was not able to answer. In particular, I specifically asked about the £2 billion that the Government say they spent on testing in January. They are withdrawing lateral flow testing from 1 April, which will be an additional burden on consumers and businesses. I asked for the breakdown of that £2 billion between PCR tests and lateral flow tests. I was attacked in the Chamber earlier for saying that £2 billion is a lot of money, but it could be a small proportion of that. If the noble Baroness could give the figures, it would clarify the situation for the House, the public and business.
Baroness Penn (Con)
I always admire the noble Lord’s ability to cram in the most questions or points in his contributions to these debates. I make an effort to address as many as I can—this one strayed slightly beyond the brief I had on the Bill, but I undertake to take that question back and provide a written answer if I can.
I was nearly the conclusion of my response. We are focused on recovery from the recession that we experienced. I spoke about the vaccination programme and the tribute we should pay to its role in our recovery. However, we still have historically high levels of debt. New fiscal rules will help to ensure that the public finances remain on a sustainable path despite this, a sustainable path that this Bill also helps to chart. It is a Bill that supports our businesses and our economy as we recover from the pandemic. It supports stronger public finances through these exceptional times. It helps to tackle tax avoidance and evasion and contributes to a simpler and more sustainable tax system. For these reasons, I commend it to the House.