Brexit Negotiations

Debate between George Howarth and Boris Johnson

Thursday 3rd October 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend, for whom I have a high regard. I well remember our conversation a few weeks ago. He makes his point with great clarity and force. Those who oppose a no-deal Brexit—I appreciate the sincerity of the feelings of those who oppose a no-deal Brexit—logically really should support this way forward, and I hope that they do.

[Sir George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab)]

As a former Northern Ireland Minister, I am all too painfully aware of how fragile the arrangements are. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) pointed out, the Prime Minister’s proposals are all contingent on their periodic renewal by the Executive and Assembly. Does he not realise that that will only add to the fragility of the political situation that already exists in Northern Ireland? Is there not a case to consider, given particularly that the Executive and Assembly are not even up and running, for putting the case directly to the people of Northern Ireland in the form of a referendum, to see what they think about it?

[The Prime Minister]

I am not sure that referendums have a great history in our country recently of bringing people together. I appreciate the right hon. Gentleman’s experience and the sincerity with which he approaches this subject, and he is obviously right to raise the concerns of both communities, but I think that this proposal offers a way forward for both communities and it is very important that the views of all communities are respected. That is why the principle of consent is at the heart of what we are proposing.

Counter-Daesh Update

Debate between George Howarth and Boris Johnson

Tuesday 7th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

My hon. Friend is right in the sense that Iran certainly poses a threat to the region and is a cause of instability. As he says, we can see that in Yemen, in its influence with Hezbollah, in Lebanon and in Syria. There is no question but that Iran needs to be constrained. But to throw out all diplomatic relations and abandon all engagement with Iran would be a profound mistake; I must tell the House my honest view about that. It slightly surprises me that my hon. Friend should take that line because the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action—the Iran nuclear deal—was an important diplomatic accomplishment, and it is still extant. It is still alive, and it is in part an achievement of British diplomacy over the past few months that it remains, in its essence, intact. We intend to preserve it because it is the best method that we have of preventing Iran from securing a nuclear weapon.

As for severing diplomatic relations entirely, that takes us to the question that so many Opposition Members have asked today. How can we secure the release of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe unless we are willing to get out there and engage with the Iranians diplomatically in order to make an effort to secure her release? That is what we are doing.

[Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab)]

Some years ago, the right hon. Gentleman and I shared an accommodation pod in Baghdad, and I think he is experienced enough to know that Daesh, while I welcome its defeat on the ground, is still active on social media platforms—indeed, he referred to that. Will he therefore press for us to be much more nimble at stifling the activities it is involved in?

On the question of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, the right hon. Gentleman, more than most, is in a position to know that words matter, and they matter because they confer meaning. Whether he spoke clumsily or was misinformed last week about that case, will he not accept—I mean this in a good spirit—that the very least that is required is an apology?

[Boris Johnson]

With great respect to the right hon. Gentleman, I have answered the second point in some detail already. However, on his first point, about countering Daesh online, that is, as he knows, a subject in which the Prime Minister herself takes a keen interest. Working with the internet providers, we have taken 295,000 separate pieces of Daesh propaganda down from the web, but much more needs to be done, particularly by the social media giants.