Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and John Robertson
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
My hon. Friend knows that it is a rule not to comment on individual planning cases, but, having looked at the issue very carefully, I draw the attention of South Borsetshire district council to the planning advice and solar strategy that we sent to all councils, making it clear that our focus is on brownfield sites, not high-grade agricultural land, and, wherever possible, building-mounted.
John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab)
T3. The Secretary of State will be aware that an article in the Daily Mail at the end of last month said that British Gas workers “who doubled bills” were “treated like celebrities” and given trips to Monaco and Rome, plus other things, and that they targeted churches, charities and elderly people because they were easy targets. Does he think it is right for a company to be able to do that, and what is he doing about it?
Energy Bill
Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and John Robertson
Gregory Barker
I deem the raising of the FITs threshold to be very attractive and am personally driving the issue in the Department. However, when looking at the proposal in further detail, I have been made aware of potentially perverse consequences and impacts on the renewables obligation. I was slightly surprised by the views of the STA but have taken them on board. We need to unpack a number of issues and I currently have officials working on the matter. I am hopeful that we can find a way through or partially through, and land at an outcome that, while it might not be the one the hon. Gentleman exactly wants, he would find satisfactory. I cannot say any more on that because I have not come to the House in a position to make a commitment or statement, but I hope he takes from the tenor of my response that we are not just considering the matter; work is being done in the Department and we hope to bring further measures to the House. I reassure him that we hope to respond as the Bill continues its passage through Parliament—most likely, in the other place.
Amendment 46 seeks to increase the specified maximum capacity of the FITs scheme to 50 MW. I have considerable sympathy with that objective, which recognises the effective nature of the reformed FITs, but such an uplift could produce unintended consequences on FITs, budgets, the levy control framework and renewables obligation certificates. As things stand, we do not consider that such a large change offers the best value for money, because it could have significant impacts on the functioning of the renewables obligation and push up costs for energy bill payers.
Amendment 42 seeks to define distributed generation. I applaud the motive of the amendment, but having carefully considered it, and as sympathetic as I am to its intention, on balance, we do not consider it necessary. The reformed and highly successful FITs scheme already ensures that communities can generate their own electricity from a range of technologies. I am proud that, under the coalition, hundreds of thousands of people have decided to do so, and are now successfully self-generating electricity to meet some or all of their needs—in some cases, they export to the grid—on both community and domestic scales. Public buildings, particularly schools, are a popular choice.
Amendment 43 aims to implement a new support mechanism for generation attached to our electricity distribution network. I have led reforms on the FITs scheme to ensure that it remains not only open, but successful and increasingly ambitious, while delivering value for money. We are now closing in on half a million installations. Virtually all the installations supported by the FITs scheme are distributed generators. We therefore do not see the need for a new mechanism, which could confuse consumers and potential generators. The reformed FITs system is doing a good job and is increasingly popular.
Amendments 44 and 45 aim to require distribution companies to supply distributed generation—even if that does sound like a slight oxymoron. UK distribution network operators already ensure that electricity generated by distributed generation is transmitted to where it is needed, if it is not consumed locally. While I am sympathetic to the intent behind the amendments, I do not see that they are strictly necessary.
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Southampton, Test for tabling amendment 47, which seeks to address an important issue: the independent renewable generators’ route to market. The amendment would create a duty on the Secretary of State to establish a green power auction market for renewable generation—GPAM, as it is often known. I hope the hon. Gentleman knows, and the House appreciates, that I am sympathetic to the intention behind the amendment. Bringing on board new, dynamic and disruptive new entrants is a key aim of the Bill. I am personally committed to breaking the grip of the big six and making our vision of a far more decentralised energy economy a reality.
John Robertson
The Minister will appreciate that this is music to my ears, but how does he expect to be able to do that—by bringing new people into the market or by trying to help smaller companies to develop?
Gregory Barker
Both, I hope. Certainly, it would not be satisfactory if the big six became the big seven or eight. Ultimately, we need the big 60,000. We want to extend the enthusiasm for micro-generation and community generation, and scale it up so that small-scale generators, who currently cater only for their own needs, begin to have the ambition to export electricity in their areas and create community interest companies. We also want entrepreneurial companies. The sector is ripe and rich for entrepreneurs. We want to see new disruptive players coming into the market and using new technologies or offering better services. There are already some good independents in existence. I have met a number of them and they are seeing their customer numbers grow considerably. As things stand, however, there is still a long way between them and the big six.
Energy Bill
Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and John Robertson
John Robertson
I ask the Minister the same question I asked my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger): what is classified as turnover? Does it just include retail or does it also include generation?
Gregory Barker
I will correct myself if I am wrong, but I believe we are talking about global turnover—we are talking about very significant sums. [Interruption.] This relates to the turnover of the company under investigation. [Interruption.] That was very helpful.
John Robertson
Just for clarification, is “the company under investigation” the mother company as well as the subsidiary company, or does it include all the companies that that company is part of?
Gregory Barker
The hon. Gentleman asks a fascinating and timely question, one which deserves a proper answer. He may have misheard me, because when I said “global turnover” what I actually meant was UK turnover. Nevertheless, that is clearly a very significant amount.
Our approach would allow for a relatively straightforward resolution of relatively simple cases. Accepting amendments to remove the cap would require us to make changes to the appeal mechanism, which could deny consumers access to the timely compensation they are due, as it could result in a far lengthier resolution of cases if the stakes are much higher. In considering whether such a trade-off is justifiable, we should take into account just how unlikely it would be for consumers to lose out on this scale. Exceeding a 10% cap of annual turnover would mean penalties and compensation of over a £1 billion for the very largest domestic energy supplier. The largest penalty imposed to date by Ofgem has been £15 million and under our legislation the cap for the largest would be set at £1 billion. A cap on redress is therefore unlikely to hinder Ofgem’s ability to impose appropriate redress orders.
In addition, there are unintended consequences of removing the 10% cap on penalty and redress, as that could also increase the costs of capital and insurance premiums for energy companies. Again, that would particularly affect the smaller companies—the very ones we are trying to attract into the sector—with all the adverse impacts on consumer bills that I mentioned earlier.
Energy companies should be in no doubt, however, that these powers are designed to ensure that consumers receive appropriate compensation. The combined 10% cap on penalties and redress will apply to each separate regulatory breach. If companies flout the rules on a number of occasions, they will therefore face correspondingly larger payouts. For the reasons I have set out, I hope that hon. Members will, on balance, agree not to press their amendments to a Division.
Gregory Barker
I absolutely assure the hon. Gentleman that there will be no “get out of jail free” card.
John Robertson
That is a very good answer, but the Minister gave an answer earlier that was found to be wrong, so I will wait for a note to come over to him.