UK-India Free Trade Deal

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride Excerpts

Wednesday 26th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lord, I welcome the Minister to your Lordships’ House and wish him all the best for his maiden speech tomorrow. I know he will agree that achieving a free trade agreement with India is vital for the opportunities it presents— financial opportunities to increase our GDP, create new markets and achieve key areas of shared interest, but also opportunities to raise a number of vital issues where the Indian Government fall short, including on human rights and workers’ rights, the environment, climate and other geopolitical issues.

In January, the Government promised that talks towards the deal would be completed by Diwali, which Hindus across the world are celebrating this week. What makes the Government’s failings on this FTA all the worse and significant is that that deadline was self-imposed, but we all knew it would fail. I challenge the Minister: can he therefore outline to your Lordships’ House what plans his Government are making to get the talks back on track?

[Lord Johnson of Lainston (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, for that follow-up question, and thank him very much for his kindness earlier, as well. He promised to be as kind as possible during this debate, so I thank him for that.

Actually, the Government never promised to conclude these talks by Diwali. We promised to have the majority of the talks concluded by the end of October, which we have: 16 chapters, the majority, are already concluded. This trade deal is actually on track. For me, it is one of the most exciting opportunities this country has had in generations. If we think about what India has to offer us, it is phenomenal. I was in India last week, and I pay tribute to our staff on the ground there, who are doing a huge amount of work to ensure our cordial relations with a country that will, in my view, become one of our greatest partners. I have celebrated Diwali with our high commission office in Mumbai.

Negotiations are ongoing and have been going on today. We have had five formal negotiations so far, I think; we are expecting a sixth in the next month or so. If we expect progression of that, we will be looking forward to substantial progress over the coming months.

Skills and Post-16 Education Bill [HL]

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 6th July 2021 Lords Chamber

What we are talking about here are fairly obvious environmental measures, so you might say they are covered by the other amendments in this group. But we need a specific focus on the need for repair skills, something that has essentially almost entirely disappeared from our communities. We should see, as we have seen happening in some communities in some places, local repair shops practically on every street corner, so that people could go to them and get things fixed. But that would require a huge injection of skills. I would very much welcome further discussion on the best ways to structure an amendment such as this. A clear direction of the need to build repair skills needs, I believe, to be a distinct part of this Bill. I beg to move.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

My Lords, before I call the noble Lord, Lord Oates, I must inform the House that three noble Lords—the noble Lords, Lord Rooker, Lord Young of Norwood Green and Lord Adonis—have scratched their names from the debate on this group and those on all subsequent groups.

[Lord Oates (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as chair of the advisory group of Weber Shandwick UK. I support the objectives of the wide array of amendments in this group—

Covid-19: Education Attendance

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride Excerpts

Thursday 1st July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, I can tell the noble Baroness that the latest figures we have are for 24 June this year, when 55,000 early years settings were open. That represents 82% of all settings, and we estimate that that means that 937,000 children were in an early years setting on that day. When we are able to confirm step 4, the advice will obviously relate to all education settings.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked.

Skills for Jobs White Paper

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride Excerpts

Tuesday 26th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

The noble Lord is correct that one of the areas where we lack productivity and we know we have a skills gap is the digital sector. That is why digital has been a focus of those eight to 12-week bootcamps that I outlined, with a fast track to an interview. So the noble Lord is entirely right in relation to that. I will take his suggestion about the levy back to the Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, as one of the few in your Lordships’ House with a Higher National Diploma qualification from a technical institution, rather than a university degree, this is an issue of great importance to me. The aspiration and language used in the ministerial Statement is to be welcomed. However, the most important aspect now is delivering on the words in the White Paper. I therefore ask the Minister: while it is right and, as we heard from my noble friend Lord Bassam, overdue that FE and apprenticeships receive additional investment, is it not a reality that universities also play a vital role in the delivery of technical skills, and that the divide between academic and technical education is far more complex than some would acknowledge? What is the Minister’s vision for a more integrated tertiary education that incentivises apprenticeship providers, FE and HE to work collaboratively to deliver choice, flexibility and clear pathways for students, young and old?

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

I am grateful to hear the noble Lord’s own career history. I think the institutes of technology are the first examples we have of the HE sector working with the FE sector in STEM with local employers. He is right that we want to see parity of esteem, but the situation we are dealing with is that for decades this country has not been like many of our European partners in valuing these technical qualifications. That is what we need to level up at the moment. There are degree apprentices, and I believe that Minister Keegan is the only Member of the other place with a degree apprenticeship. It is important that we got T-levels validated for UCAS points, so that they are also an access point, and you will see them merging in. This is a work in progress, but the most important thing in this country is that we respect technical qualifications. That is the first job we need to do and a clear ambition of the White Paper.

Higher Education (Fee Limits and Student Support) (England) (Coronavirus) (Revocation) Regulations 2020

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride Excerpts

Thursday 29th October 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Loomba (CB) [V]]

My Lords, it is right that the Government alter course where necessary, especially where original regulations, introduced in haste, are no longer fit for purpose. With universities initially offering more student places to offset an anticipated reduction in numbers due to the pandemic, those regulations sought to control the amount of money that universities would receive in the next academic year from English-domiciled students to ensure fairness. What do the Government propose to do to ensure that this type of situation does not occur in future if we are still in the same position next year or something else causes a similar situation to arise?

This issue needs also to be addressed across the devolved nations. The original legislation permitted the English student loans finance system to curtail the amount of funding available for English-domiciled students proposing to study in the devolved nations if universities there exceeded their student control number quotas. What discussions have been had with the devolved nations to ensure that in future, if English universities offer more places to students from the devolved nations to gain a financial benefit, they will not be prevented from doing so?

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

After the next speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, I shall call the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett.

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[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, UCU, the UK’s largest academic union, had to cancel its online congress because it ran into technical problems. Could anything be more ironic, especially when one of the key matters for debate was the union’s opposition to the Government opening universities and the demand that all teaching be online? One does not need a PhD to know that Zoom and Teams are not fool-proof, or lecturer-proof, and are no substitute for face-to-face gatherings. I mention this because the greatest tragedy for students is not fees per se, or numbers, or algorithms, or even being locked up in their halls like prisoners or being accused of killing grannie by a government Minister. The real let-down is being abandoned by the official lecturers’ body and far too many politicians, who have sacrificed quality and personal engagement on the altar of safetyism.

I declare an interest as a visiting professor at the University of Buckingham, and I commend the vice-chancellor and staff of that university, who have worked with the student union to maximise as much face-to-face teaching as possible within the restrictions and delivered that blended learning model. The students have loved it, and so have the staff. Indeed, rank-and-file staff and many of my colleagues around the country from my previous life love teaching face to face but are being stopped from doing so by management and, indeed, their union. It is the cut and thrust of intellectual life, and far better than the stilted, awkward Zoom experience —such as here and now, indeed, in this Room.

Will the Minister commit to championing this higher education model, based on live human interaction, and challenge managements and the UCU which say that non-essential teaching should be done online? I want the Minister to ask what is “non-essential teaching”. It is perhaps a bit like the Welsh Assembly’s non-essential shopping. Any institution that believes it delivers non-essential teaching does not deserve fees or students. I would like to see the Minister and the Government championing face to face far more than they are doing, instead of getting caught up in the technicalities.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

After the next speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, I shall call the noble Lord, Lord Storey.

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Motion agreed.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

I remind Members to sanitise their desks and chairs before leaving the Room.

Covid-19: Social Mobility

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride Excerpts

Tuesday 21st July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge]

My Lords, as part of the skills recovery package, the Chancellor announced £100 million to support young people who want a high-value level 2 or 3 qualification where there might not be employment opportunities. FE capital is part of the “build, build, build” response to the recovery. A White Paper in the autumn will outline this Government’s priority to have an FE sector that is no longer the Cinderella of the higher education sector.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

My Lords, the time allocated for this Question has elapsed.

Covid-19: Childcare Sector

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride Excerpts

Tuesday 21st July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge]

My Lords, I outlined to the noble Lord, Lord Bird, some of the additional support that is being given through the Department for Work and Pensions. The Department for Education has also given £3.6 million of early years disadvantage grants to try to support language and other development for those young people. We are aware of children in the poorest households. That is why free school meals have been made available during each of the school holidays during the pandemic.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

My Lords, the time allocated for this Question has elapsed.

Trade Bill

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride Excerpts

Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 13th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed]

My Lords, this feels like an intermission between two parts of the main feature this afternoon, so I shall be brief. The amendment is even more important given the vote in the Commons last night and the votes likely to come up in the other place. It would provide for a duty on the Government to update the information that they published on 21 February.

I signed up to a weekly trade newsletter from the European Commission at the start of this Bill’s consideration. It includes a weekly digest of the latest news on EU trade, new trade negotiating texts, reports and studies about ongoing discussions, upcoming events and consultations and the EU Trade Commissioner’s statements on related topics. That is the type of information available through the Commission that should be the benchmark by which our Government provides information, not only to Parliament but to civic society and interested groups across the country. But unfortunately, it is in stark contrast with the kind of information that the UK Government publish to date. It is appropriate that we have information on the status of discussions and highlight areas where there are justifiable public differences in approach or policy between our Government and other Governments.

The amendment is not asking for commercially sensitive information or for information that would diminish the ability of negotiators to carry out a set mandate or agreed policy objectives. It is necessary for continuity in the areas that we are discussing.

Also, as we discussed in the previous debate, if there is no deal, we have unilaterally decided to engage in a different trading relationship with countries we currently have arrangements with, and possibly add new tariff lines on goods that are not in place in the current FTAs. The Government seem to think that it is rational to discuss continuity agreements with other countries if there is no deal, apply a new tariff regime with nearly 500 extra tariff lines to businesses trading from those countries and roll over agreements, thereby reinstating the zero tariffs we currently enjoy with those countries by virtue of our membership of the European Union. It is a bizarre approach that the Government think will be beneficial, but it stretches credulity.

At the start of proceedings on the Bill, the Government said that the whole process of moving over agreements would be easy. The noble Lord, Lord Price, the Minister’s predecessor, said that all countries had agreed to roll over agreements but, in fact, they had not. Ministers said repeatedly that all the agreements would be in place by 29 March but many of us knew that that would not happen. The Government denied that there was a problem when it was apparent to everyone that there was, and we knew that those agreements were not going to happen for a number of reasons. Only after frustrated officials leaked information did the Government demur and publish a one-off statement admitting a degree of reality. That is not sufficient and we need to move away from that approach.

The amendment addresses a way forward. It would lead to more information on the trading relationships with the countries we have an agreement with through the EU, but will end if we crash out. The amendment calls for a weekly update before we leave the EU—if we leave—and a monthly update that will form the basis of reporting until the texts of the agreements are shared with Parliament. Unless we have a consistent mechanism, we will have a bizarre situation involving two reporting systems from the Government: one on the progress on continuity agreements and the other on successor or new agreements.



For example, the Government intended to have a continuity agreement with Japan but no reporting undertakings. However, the Japanese have now said they want a successor agreement, which would be covered by undertakings in the Command Paper. But the underlying policy intent has not changed and there will be nothing to stop discussions with a country such as Canada on a continuity agreement then becoming a successor agreement—and there will be two parallel systems of reporting. That is not helpful for clarity or transparency.

Finally, we heard clearly last week from the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, and others who have been at the highest level of negotiations on behalf of the UK, that greater transparency and the involvement of Parliament in approving mandates actively strengthen the UK’s position, not weaken it. In order for Parliament to do its job correctly and engage with civil society groups and those with an interest in trade, or who will be impacted by decisions made in the negotiations, we need a high level of information on progress, rather than simply a descriptor such as “engagement ongoing”, as referred to on 21 February.

That is why I hope that the Government will look favourably on the amendment and, if they cannot accept it, at least establish some principles whereby reporting mechanisms can be more up to date, regular and meaningful than a one-off publication on 21 February. I beg to move.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, has outlined the reasoning for and detail of the amendment. I intend, therefore, to be brief as we have a number of amendments of greater importance.

It is a shame that the Government will not accept the amendment or work with noble Lords on this side of the House to bring more detail and clarity to the reporting mechanism and progress analysis on rollover agreements. Suffice it to say, Her Majesty’s Government are woefully behind on negotiating, securing and signing agreements that will need to be rolled over. Only a handful of deals are close to completion. Ministers have admitted that they are struggling to make progress with the other trade agreements that Liam Fox has a number of times promised would be ready for the day after Brexit.

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[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride]

My Lords, briefly, we on this side support the amendment and are pleased the Government are committed to protecting equalities legislation. However, I would like to see the Government go a little further and give a firmer promise that trade agreements will not allow any regression of standards as we move forward. I have nothing further to add.

[Baroness Fairhead]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord McNicol of West Kilbride, for his support. As I think the House is aware, we are trying to work on standards to agree a mutually acceptable form of words.

I conclude by placing on the record my thanks for the positive engagement that the Government have had with the Equality and Human Rights Commission in relation to this amendment. We have worked closely together on developing it. As the House will have seen from the commission’s briefing, it too is supportive of the amendment. Consequently, I hope your Lordships will support the amendment. I beg to move.

Amendment 26 agreed.

Clause 7: Regulations: devolved authorities and general provision

Amendment 27

Trade Bill

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride Excerpts

Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 30th January 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride]

31: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause—
“Rules of origin
It shall be the objective of an appropriate authority to negotiate as a term of all international trade agreements implemented under section 2 that goods subject to the agreement which have originated in the European Union shall be treated as if they had originated in the United Kingdom.”

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, Amendment 31 is a short amendment but an important one. This is my first Bill and first amendment from the Opposition Front Benches in your Lordships’ House, so please forgive any mistakes from the outset.

Nowhere, as far as I can see, are rules of origin mentioned or dealt with in the Bill. This is worrying for a number of reasons. Most importantly, rules of origin will have a huge impact on the UK’s efforts to replicate our current EU trade agreements with other countries. Rules of origin are about how we define where a product or products really come from, and what “Made in Britain” actually means. It is important to the Bill because, if we are to take the Government at their word, this is just a Bill to allow the rollover of existing trade agreements—agreements that we currently have because of our membership of the EU and customs union. Without changes, rules of origin locally should be expressed in exactly the same way as they currently are. My concern is that they will not be. Post Brexit the EU will no longer be classified as “local”. The UK will be the new “local”. So a new definition will need to be written into these rollover trade deals, where “local”—which until leaving the EU meant inside the whole of the EU—will now mean not just the UK but the UK and the rest of the EU.

The issue of rules of origin is inextricably linked with our membership of the customs union. The big advantage now of being inside the customs union is that no tariffs or taxes are placed on imports or exports of goods traded between member states. Fulfilling the country-of-origin principle ensures that products can enjoy zero tariffs as part of free trade deals if they meet the requirement: conversely, if they do not, they will not. To give a practical example, trade deals in the car industry usually require about 55% of the components of a car to be considered as local. But most cars made in the UK have just 40% of UK-only content. If we then look at the fact that many of the subcontractors source many of their parts from abroad, a UK-made car could be less than 30% made in the UK. This is improved and passes a 55% threshold due to the fact that other manufactured parts of the car come from EU countries, currently classified as local. I ask the Minister: when we leave, how will this be addressed in each of the possible exit scenarios, as this is pertinent to the rollover of existing trade agreements? I also ask the Minister to clarify, if amendments need to be made to the text of existing trade agreements, how parliamentary scrutiny of those changes will be handled. I beg to move.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord on moving his first amendment to a Bill. It does not get any easier—I do not wish to offer any false reassurance—but I happily concur with his remarks in moving the amendment. I have little to add except to reinforce the point that, for the UK in particular, the majority of our imports from our biggest market and an even larger majority of our exports are intermediary. They include components that are from a number of different countries and not from here.

This issue was raised briefly with the Minister on the cross-border taxation Bill. It is the complexity not just of the components but what is necessary to ensure that many UK exported goods and our imported consumer goods have a seamless transaction process. It is less about the tariffs applied and much more about the regulatory aspects and checks that will be necessary, which I shall turn to in a moment. Therefore, for our key sectors—the noble Lord mentioned automotive, but for wider engineering and overall production and for our exporters— this issue is critical.

I will cite one example from HMRC’s advice to businesses that is close to my heart, living in an area that has a rich tradition of manufacturing in textiles. It shows some of the complexity when rules of origin have to be applied. Each business has in effect to do its own certification. The advice states:

“For example, yarn spun from non-originating man-made fibres in France”,


would not be considered as originating within the EU for preferential purposes when considering whether rules of origin apply.

“However, cloth woven from that yarn in the UK would be an EU originating product, just as if the weaving had been done in France or Germany”.


That is one tiny example of where, if we do not have a customs union with our biggest market, we will have difficulty with rules of origin with our largest market and then, as we move to trade with other countries outside the customs union, we will have difficulty in deciding which are applicable for other preferential or other trade policies.

That is part of the complexity that leads to Amendment 51 in my name, which is in the view of these Benches necessary to align with our biggest market in order for us to exploit trade with other markets. We need to triangulate as little as possible, which seems to be what the Government seek. The best way to do that is through these arrangements. I understand that there is tacit agreement from the Government on this point, because the announcement last week of an in-principle agreement with Israel to roll over our agreement means that it seems that the United Kingdom is in principle considering what is in effect a rules of origin regime with the EU, the EEA, Switzerland, the Faroe Islands, Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Montenegro, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia and Turkey—all countries that have in effect a rules of origin regime.

It would be helpful if the Minister could clarify the Government’s intention for rules of origin in the existing rollover agreements and how they consider the future. However, even if we operated under such a regime, necessary checks and certification still have to be done electronically; each exporting company has to apply its four-digit tariff heading and carry out its own checks on whether rules of origin are being complied with. If we are to have a separate anti-dumping and corrective measures system—which, incidentally, the Government promised us for consideration before the final stages of the Bill—and if we are to have a preferential rules of origin system for developing countries, we will have to have some form of check system to ensure that those countries comply with it. It is one thing to say that we will have an electronic system for our closest trading partner—but how will we know that it is not being abused by other countries that wish to circumvent it?

Up to the Lords stage, the Government said that the language as set out in these amendments would necessarily tie their hands and weaken their negotiating flexibility by having them take all necessary steps—but this is no longer the Government’s position because we see that language in Clause 6. This is now government language, where it relates it to the European medicines regulatory network. The Government seemingly do not intend to bring forward any amendments to delete that from the legislation, so if they do not then that is the government language. That means that the Government should not have any problem with accepting this language.

Secondly, the Government said, prior to yesterday, that it would be inappropriate for Parliament to set a mandate for how the Government should take forward negotiations. That is clearly no longer the case because, as the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union and the Prime Minister herself have said, Parliament has set the Government a mandate with regards to the Northern Ireland protocol. So there is no barrier to the Government accepting the language of these amendments. As to the necessity of them, it is very clear that this is what most of the industrial sectors of this country are seeking.

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[Baroness Fairhead]

The Government do not endorse the wording of the amendment, and consider that the wording has legal and technical difficulties, so we are reflecting on what should be done.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride]

I thank the Minister for her response, and the noble Lords, Lord Purvis of Tweed and Lord Lansley, and the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, for their contributions and kind words. This is an important amendment, as it looks to protect the current benefits of rules of origin classification. As the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, said, there are benefits for both the UK and our EU partner countries, through cumulation and clarification of local goods.

A lot has been said, so I will read Hansard with interest. I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 31.

Amendment 31 withdrawn.

Trade Bill

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride Excerpts

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 23rd January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

May I try asking the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Fox, another way round? Are the Government concerned that any of the countries with which we want to roll over agreements cannot complete, or have concerns about completing, the rollover agreements, through their own Governments and Parliaments, within the next 10 weeks? If so, we should take the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, about the businesses and industries working across and with those countries. They will be put in jeopardy if there is no agreement in place by one minute past midnight on 30 March.