Oral Answers to Questions

Clive Betts Excerpts

Thursday 17th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[David Rutley]

The measure we announced on 23 December will make sure that there is a ban on third-party sales of puppies and kittens, which will mean that unscrupulous breeders and puppy farmers will no longer be able to hide. This is an important piece of legislation and it shows that we have got into a much higher gear on animal welfare legislation.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

The International Trade Secretary has been touring the world negotiating trade deals in the past few months. Will the Minister say precisely what involvement DEFRA Ministers have in ensuring that animal welfare issues are contained in any agreement that that Secretary of State is concluding?

[David Rutley]

DEFRA leads on agricultural issues in these trade deals and there is a clear intention that our standards will not be watered down.

Oral Answers to Questions

Clive Betts Excerpts

Thursday 29th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[Dr Coffey]

I am not aware of the figure to which the hon. Gentleman has just referred. I am conscious of the impact that burning has, which is why we have a consultation about the domestic burning of household smoky coal, wet wood and similar materials, but I will look carefully into the issue that he has raised.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

Pollution is not just a matter for city centres; it is also about major roads. Around the M1 in my constituency, levels of nitrogen dioxide pollution have got so bad that, for the first time ever, the Department for Transport is bringing in variable speed limits just to deal with pollution. It is also looking at installing barriers to absorb NO₂. What involvement does the Minister’s Department have in that? Does she think that those measures will be successful, and will she report back to the House on their effectiveness in due course?

[Dr Coffey]

The Minister of State, Department for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman), and I work closely together on this issue. My Department and the Department for Transport have a joint air quality unit, and I am in regular contact with Highways England about its progress on improving air quality on the strategic road network. I welcome the work that it is considering to change speed limits and to install the barriers to which the hon. Gentleman referred.

Oral Answers to Questions

Clive Betts Excerpts

Thursday 12th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right; fly-tipping is morally reprehensible and does have environmental costs. That is why a review, being led by Lizzie Noel, one of the non-executive directors at DEFRA, and supported by Chris Salmon, former police and crime commissioner for Dyfed-Powys, will look at exactly what powers and sanctions are required to deal effectively with this scourge.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

Fly-tipping in all its forms is unacceptable, but it is particularly unacceptable when businesses try to avoid costs by dumping commercial waste on unauthorised sites. In such circumstances, does the Secretary of State feel that those businesses should have their vehicles confiscated, alongside any other assets that they use to facilitate this unacceptable practice?

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman, like me, is tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime. Therefore, we will give consideration to his recommendation in the review that is being led by Lizzie Noel.

Oral Answers to Questions

Clive Betts Excerpts

Thursday 7th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I thank my hon. Friend for making that point and for her advocacy for this cause. We are listening with respect to the arguments that have been made by her constituents, Members of the other place and the public about the need to maintain and enhance high environmental standards. That is why we will be looking with interest at some of the amendments tabled by Back-Bench colleagues.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

Just before the recess, the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government made an announcement about proposals for a consultation to create a single shale gas regulator. Can the Secretary of State assure the House that there will be absolutely no change to the powers of the Environment Agency to protect our environment on fracking sites?

[Michael Gove]

Yes, I can. The Environment Agency has been very clear about the vital role that it plays in providing assurance that environmental safeguards are always in place when hydraulic fracturing or other forms of hydrocarbon extraction take place.

Transport Emissions: Urban Areas

Clive Betts Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My right hon. Friend has been a consistent champion of small businesses and of those who rely on diesel vehicles to provide the services on which we all, more broadly, rely. As the nature of the debate in the House indicates, a balance needs to be struck. That balance is between recognising that there is an appropriate place in the next couple of decades for diesel as part of the transport mix—where either the private sector or local authorities can find support for a scrappage scheme, we will of course endorse and do what we can to facilitate that—and, as well as making sure that small business can thrive, ensuring that our children, critically, are protected from the greatest concentrations of pollution that we find in some urban areas.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State is right that local authorities have a big role to play in this, but they could do an awful lot more if they had the resources. Central Government have an even bigger role to play. In Tinsley in my constituency, NO₂ levels are regularly above safe limits because it is next to the M1 motorway, which is a central Government responsibility. What are the Government going to do about that, apart from adding an extra lane to the motorway? In Sheffield city centre, the pollution hotspot is around Sheffield station because of diesel trains, yet this Government have just cancelled the electrification of the midland main line. When are we going to get some joined-up government on this matter?

[Michael Gove]

I am a great admirer of the hon. Gentleman for all the work he has done both to ensure that the case for appropriate support for local government is made and to ensure, when it comes to planning, that we all take a thoughtful approach that takes the environment into account. However, there is one more thing he could do, which is to have a word with his Labour colleagues on Sheffield City Council and ask them to stop the tree felling campaign in which they are engaged. If we want to deal effectively with air pollution, one of the things we can do is to continue to ensure that trees—they not only act as a source of beauty and natural wonder but contribute to the fight against air pollution—are allowed to survive, rather than being chopped down by a council that is, I am afraid, in thrall to its own officers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Gove]

It will be a pleasure.

[Mr Betts]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. A point of order would ordinarily come later. Does it appertain to these exchanges?

[Mr Betts]

Yes.

[Mr Speaker]

And is it uncontentious and not a continuation of debate, but an honest pursuit of truth by the Chair of the Communities and Local Government Committee?

[Mr Betts]

It is an honest pursuit of truth, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Very good. I will give the hon. Gentleman the benefit of the doubt.

[Mr Betts]

I am sure that the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs would not want an inaccurate statement to go uncorrected. He said that Sheffield City Council was felling trees and that that was adding to the pollution problems in the city. The truth is that while there has been some contention about the removal and replacement of some trees on some streets, overall there will be more trees in Sheffield at the end of the programme than at the beginning, and the city will have low-energy LED street lights throughout, which I hope the Secretary of State will welcome.

[Mr Speaker]

It is always useful to have a bit of additional information. We have learnt a bit more about the Sheffield tree situation, which is potentially reassuring. If the Secretary of State wishes to leap to his feet to respond, he is welcome to do so.

[Mr Speaker]

The right hon. Gentleman signals that he is content, such is the—

[Mr Betts]

He agrees—thank you very much.

[Mr Speaker]

Well, I do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman agrees, but he gives no evidence of disagreement. The emollient tone of the hon. Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts) has served his purpose for now—[Interruption.] Order. The hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones) chunters from a sedentary position that this is an explosive issue. I do not know whether it is—[Interruption.] Locally; well, that may well be so. Very good, honour is served.

Air Quality

Clive Betts Excerpts

Thursday 15th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I welcome the report. I serve on the Environmental Audit Committee, and I have proposed the Clean Air Bill that, in essence, calls for the development of sustainable public, private and commercial transport by road, rail, air and sea. Obviously, the background is diesel pollution. The Clean Air Act 1956 was passed to confront the 12,000 deaths in London in one year, 1952. Now we are seeing 9,400 deaths in London, and 40,000 across Britain, every year. We are looking at a silent killer on an industrial scale. At best, the Government’s position is complacent and negligent. They have been dragged into court and forced to abide by EU standards. The strategy is minimalist, rather than an holistic approach that confronts the real problem. We know that people are dying, be it through heart attacks, lung disease or strokes. Unborn babies are being exposed through the placental wall.

The Select Committee Chair mentioned VW, and it is appalling that VW’s NOx sensors were allowing 40 times the EU pollution limit. As I mentioned earlier, the US has taken firm legal action and sued VW for $12 billion, but the EU and the UK are doing virtually nothing vis-à-vis VW. We know that we need to take action.

I have been working in conjunction with the Health Alliance UK on Climate Change, which includes the Royal College of Physicians, the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, The Lancet, The BMJ, the Royal College of Nursing and the Royal College of General Practitioners. We have seen the huge protests by doctors against diesel deaths. People are getting wise to the fact that they are driving around inside silent killers, and that politicians of various hues have overseen an increase in diesel cars from a market share of some 10% in 2000 to 50% of new cars now. Nearly 40% of the stock is diesel. Of course politicians are frightened of doing anything, but they must do something to save people’s lives and to save future generations. Poorer people and children disproportionately live near highly congested areas.

I completely agree with the Select Committee’s recommendations, and I want local government to be empowered to provide more infrastructure, such as modern electric trams. I want local government to be able to restrict diesel and heavy-polluting cars and vehicles from entering areas where there is particular vulnerability. I want the Government to introduce complete infrastructure for electric and hydrogen vehicles. As my hon. Friend the Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick) said, electricity must be provided for ships that are coming into port and polluting local areas. There is another debate to be had about ships. Ships in the North sea create more pollution, diesel and otherwise, than the totality of transport in Britain.

We need to think about the wider picture. The Chair of the Committee mentioned agriculture and methane from cows; we must think about how to manage that as well, by promoting vegetarianism and encouraging best practice. We need to reduce the massive subsidies to the fossil fuel industry and the production of methane through agriculture. I know that people have been reconsidering Heathrow airport. A lot of the testing for the airport was based on old-fashioned modelling that underestimated the amount of emissions from cars roughly fourfold, did not even factor in emissions from the planes themselves, which will increase in number from 480,000 to 700,000 a year.

It really is not good enough. We have seen some action elsewhere: Paris, Madrid, Mexico City and Athens are seeking to ban diesel within the next decade. There has been talk in Germany; a motion was passed in the Bundestag to stop the sale of new diesel cars altogether across the EU from 2030. There are calls, whether caused by Brexit or otherwise, for the Government to support investment in hydrogen electric cars. In Swansea, we welcome the electrification of the railways, but it will not happen until 2024, and the trains will be diesel and electrified. Meanwhile, in Germany, they are developing the first hydrogen trains. We are absolutely miles behind and pretending to be at the front of the game.

The basic point that needs to be made is that we need a new, comprehensive fiscal strategy that encourages a clean and healthy future in terms of consumption and production and discourages bad, unhealthy and deadly behaviour. Since 1992, there has been basically no difference in fuel tariff between diesel and petrol, and despite inflation there has been no growth in either of them since 2010, so the real cost of diesel—the cost of promoting death—has been cut. We need differentials to emerge between diesel and petrol, and particularly in order to encourage electric and hydrogen.

I know that time is pressing for the Front-Bench speeches, so I will bring my comments to a close. I completely support what has been said in the report, and I think that much more must be done. I will circulate my detailed Clean Air Bill for comments and contributions, to help push forward on this growing problem for people not just in London but across Britain who want to protect themselves and their children from unnecessary death.

[Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair)]

We now move to the Front-Bench speeches. We are not restricted to concluding this debate by 3 o’clock; the two debates together may take three hours. There are 10 minutes for each of the Front-Bench speeches on this report, and the Chair of the Select Committee has the right to make a brief response at the end.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Coffey]

The hon. Lady will be aware that elements of funding are available as part of the air quality grant programme. The sum has increased at least sixfold since the previous grant last year. If we have good enough bids, we hope to work with the Treasury to consider how we can develop that funding further.

I recently sent letters to 230 local authorities with air quality management areas, seeking updates on their plans, and on their plans to move to compliance. From the number and quality of responses that I have already received, I have been pleased to note that positive action is being taken in many places. Mid Devon District Council has taken a lead role in the region’s low emissions partnership; Rushcliffe Borough Council is taking forward a number of transport and educational initiatives, while also reducing the council’s own impacts; and Norwich City Council has recorded a significant reduction in nitrogen dioxide after improving traffic flow and introducing a new fleet of Euro 6 buses. The Public Health Minister and I have written jointly to all directors of public health to encourage them to show their influence on air quality at a local level. The Mayor of Bristol replied to my letter and I am pleased to say I will meet him next month, alongside MPs from Bristol.

There are other matters to consider, such as reducing emissions of particulate matter, which is also an important priority for me. The largest source of those emissions now is domestic solid fuel, such as wood and coal burned in open fires and stoves, the use of which has increased significantly in recent years. I am considering a range of options to address this issue, and as a first step I plan to engage with stove manufacturers and retailers to understand the issues and identify where improvements could be made, through industry-led action on cleaner appliances and fuel. In particular, one of the messages that I would like to give out before the Christmas holidays is for people to think about the choice of wood that they use when they have open fires, and to use wood with the lowest moisture possible, to reduce the production of soot and dust.

With regard to farming, our target is to reduce ammonia emissions, which have already decreased significantly over many years. However, we know there is more to do. As a first step, DEFRA recently launched a farming ammonia reduction grant, to encourage the agriculture sector to help drive reductions in ammonia emissions.

I note the points that my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton raised on the use of fertiliser and grass feeds. DEFRA is also looking at greenhouse gas emissions, working with the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board to drive forward efficiency gains in the beef sector via the beef genetic improvement network.

My hon. Friend also referred to construction, with regard to non-road mobile machinery. We have worked closely with the European Union and the legislation on that area was published in September 2016.

I recognise that the decision made by Greenwich Council was unpopular with the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick). According to the Mayor of Greenwich’s website, the decision was considered for call-in by the Mayor but he decided not to. However, my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton will be aware that our right hon. Friend the Minister of State, Department for Transport, has committed to look further at what can be done on shipping emissions, which I am sure is good news for air quality, not only on the Thames but around the country.

My approach on this issue is not to play the blame game or pass the buck. As was pointed out, a previous Government incentivised diesel vehicles, to cut carbon. I could casually blame them, but I just do not see the point of doing so. I do not blame local councils for this matter, but alongside our national strategy we need to take local action. As I have said before, improving air quality is my top priority and a top priority for DEFRA. We are committed to improving air quality across all levels of Government, to deliver the improvements that are needed. As my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton has pointed out, co-ordinated action is absolutely needed, and I can assure him that that work is under way.

In that work, we have the backing of our right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, who just last month said to the House:

“We have taken action, but there is more to do and we will do it.”—[Official Report, 2 November 2016; Vol. 616, c. 887.]

[Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair)]

I call the Chair of the Select Committee to wind up.

Oral Answers to Questions

Clive Betts Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Andrea Leadsom]

As an ex-Tonbridge Grammar School girl, I know the area well. The Environment Agency is progressing business cases to increase the capacity of the live flood storage area on the River Medway, alongside new schemes at Hildenborough and East Peckham. The agency has estimated that these schemes qualify for a £15.5 million Government grant in aid. If approved, this will better protect more than 1,900 properties in the Medway catchment.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State rightly has a responsibility to protect buildings. In my constituency, in the lower Don valley, there is a lot of ex-industrial brownfield land that, with remedial work and protection from flooding from the Don, could provide homes for thousands of people and stop the building on greenfield sites. Does she accept that, as well as protecting existing buildings, the Government should be interested in protecting sites where buildings could be built?

[Andrea Leadsom]

Absolutely. Of course, it is important that we take into account the protection of new homes being built—that is what the Environment Agency does, as a key stakeholder in all planning decisions—and it is absolutely our intention to make sure that new developments are better protected.

Air Quality

Clive Betts Excerpts

Thursday 3rd November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Dr Coffey]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. In answer to my hon. Friend, I will need to check this—and I might need to write to him—but I think there is already guidance in the national planning framework to ensure that councils are mindful of the impact on air quality and other environmental matters when they consider planning applications.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

The M1 motorway runs right next to the Tinsley area of my constituency, and NO₂ levels there are so dangerously high that Sheffield Council has acted to move two local schools away from the motorway and rebuild a school elsewhere. In the end, however, the council can only do so much, and it cannot prevent pollution from the M1. That needs a national plan from the Government to reduce NO₂ emissions from diesel vehicles. When are we going to get one?

[Dr Coffey]

One of the actions that the joint air quality unit is taking is to work up plans for the strategic road network, and that work is still under way. As I have said, our modelling was based on the best available evidence. A consequence of updating the modelling might be that more areas will come into it, but the strategic road network, including the M1, is on our agenda.

Basic Payment Scheme

Clive Betts Excerpts

Thursday 28th January 2016 Westminster Hall

[Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair)]

Two more Members want to speak and we need to bring in the Front Benchers at 4 o’clock, so if you could each take no more than seven minutes, that would be helpful.

--- Later in debate ---

[Simon Hoare]

My hon. Friend makes an incredibly valid point. Spiritually, I am a huge supporter of the living wage. It is a good thing and it is a credit to the Government that it has been announced, but it will clearly have a harder and greater impact on sectors of our national economy that trade at more marginal levels, and farming and agriculture is one of those. Given the good offices of the NFU and the fact that it is campaigning strongly on that, I hope that those messages will be heard in the Treasury and perhaps some form of taper might be introduced to ease in the living wage and stagger the impact.

Let us consider a catastrophic failure of UK agriculture. Farmers trading at the margins—my hon. Friends the Members for Brecon and Radnorshire (Chris Davies) and for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mrs Trevelyan) represent some of the upland farmers and areas with strong dairy sectors—have been buffeted and blown around by so much over the years, but this is the last piece of wood in the game of Jenga to be pulled out, so the tottering edifice suddenly finds that its foundations are so flimsy that it collapses before our eyes.

Of itself, that would be devastating, but it is worthwhile to set out the impacts. It would clearly have an impact, as referenced by my hon. Friend the Member for Wells (James Heappey), on food security. In a wider sense, it would have a deleterious impact on the nation’s biodiversity. It would have a huge impact on tourism, because our landscape, as we know, is not a natural one in great part. It is the product of centuries of farming and, when that goes, the beauty of the British countryside will be impoverished. For those farmers giving up, it will by necessity have a huge impact on their health—physical or mental—with a concomitant increase in demands on services. It would see an increase in the welfare bill, as farmers who have only been trained to be farmers and who are not in areas where diversification into other trades is readily possible suddenly find themselves at the end of their working career long before they envisaged. It would have a huge impact on so many areas of our national life.

There is often nothing more exhilarating than seeing the rural Conservative party in full cry after a Minister, but I think we will look to him this afternoon—our tails are up, our noses are down and he is giving good scent—[Laughter.] We are hunting within the law. We are not looking for a kill, but we are looking for clarity and certainty from him that he has confidence in the agency’s ability to appraise itself and not just trot out the phrase “lessons will be learnt” and then say, “Right, we have used that phrase, so we can go back to our usual management speak,” but ensure that the lessons learnt from the process are picked up. The agency must play its part along with others to ensure the long-term viability and vitality of our vital UK agricultural sector.

[Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair)]

We will now move on to the Front Benchers, who have 10 minutes each.

Dairy Industry

Clive Betts Excerpts

Thursday 13th September 2012 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Griffiths]

I thank my hon. Friend. I am left with a marvellous image of him up to the navel in milk. I know that he has done his best to support dairy farmers in his constituency.

We got to this point because dairy farmers felt that they had no choice. They were faced with a further 2p cut in their prices, and that was a cut too far. They would not have been able to survive. Dairy farming would not have been sustainable at that level. It is almost unique that having had the 2.5p reinstated in many cases, many dairy farmers are still only meeting the cost of production. In what other industry do we expect producers to sell their product at the cost of production? We do not say to Toyota that we want to buy a Prius at the cost of production or to Apple that we want to buy the iPhone 5 at the cost of production, yet we expect our dairy farmers to survive by selling their product at the cost of production. That is absolutely unsustainable, which is why it is so important that we, as Parliament and as a society, get behind our dairy farmers. If we do not, we will lose the industry for ever.

We need to be aware of why we got ourselves in this situation: it was a case of supermarkets using milk to tempt people in, just as they have with my other beloved product, beer. They have driven down the price, and milk processors, to chase supermarket contracts, have put pressure downwards on our farmers to the point at which the pips are beginning to squeak.

I shall make a few quick points to close. First, we all recognise that more than 90% of the milk for the liquid market is produced here in the UK, but just a third of the butter and half the cheese products on our supermarket shelves are produced from British milk. We must do more to get into that very lucrative market, which could save our dairy industry. Secondly, we have heard a lot about the groceries code adjudicator and the idea that it must have teeth. The industry is setting so much store by what the groceries code adjudicator can deliver in future, and we must make sure that we arm it with the tools that it needs to do its job. Thirdly, some £5 million has been made available to dairy farmers under the rural economy grant. There are rumours and concerns among farmers in my constituency that, although that money would help them to survive, not all of it will reach dairy farmers, so I would be grateful for clarification on how the scheme will operate.

We recognise that the land that we live in is green and pleasant because it is farmed and because our farmers make such a massive contribution. [Interruption.] The phrase “for whom the bell tolls” comes to mind. It tolls now not only for me, but for our dairy industry, and it is imperative that we, as Parliament and as a society, offer a lifeline and support to the great British dairy industry.

[Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair)]

To make sure that everyone can contribute, I will now limit speeches to six minutes absolutely, with no injury time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con)]

I have waited two and a half years for this moment. It is really sad that, as a nation of tea drinkers, we cannot organise a fair price for the milk that goes into it. Even more sad is the fact that in 2003 and 2004, we compiled a Select Committee report on milk pricing, and very little has changed. As my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) rightly said, it is wrong that the middle men take the lion’s share of the profit from the milk market.

I am not sure whether it is on the record, but I own and breed Hereford cattle, and one big problem for dairy farmers is knowing that the product that they work so hard to produce is grossly undervalued by their customers. There is also another problem. Imagine how Robert Wiseman would feel if one of his beautiful black and white lorries was crushed every time it failed its MOT, or Sainsbury’s or Tesco had their building bulldozed if it failed a health and safety inspection. That is what happens when a farmer fails a TB test.

Probably no hon. Member has taken a TB test, so I will explain what it is like. It is quite easy on day one when a farmer puts his cattle through the crush because the cattle do not know what is going to happen. The vet comes along and very carefully and professionally gives the cattle two injections, one for avian TB and the other for bovine TB. The cows do not think much of that. Three days later, the vet comes back to feel whether the bovine bump is larger than the avian one and whether the cows have been exposed to tuberculosis. The cows do not know that they are not going to get jabbed, so they do not want to go through the crush and will fight to dodge it, and that, I am afraid, makes the whole process extremely dangerous.

My little boy, Jack, who is only seven, got kicked. My cows weigh 900 kilos, which is quite a lot more than me, and when they want to go somewhere, they will go. It is tough for farmers, and they get hurt. At least two of them have been killed in the time that I have been a Member of Parliament. It is extremely difficult for people who do not see this sort of activity to understand why the milk price has to reflect the risk that these people take, why it is so important that the Government continue with their agenda to fight this disease and to beat it, and why the Minister should go further than we are at the moment and allow the badger culls to go ahead and be trialled. I support the culls, because I have heard the misery of the farmers. They used to ring me up and cry down the phone when they started shooting their bull calves and I completely sympathised with them.

I have worked with the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, Compassion in World Farming and all sorts of other people in the efforts to stop the export of live calves. Blade farming has now done a great deal of good in providing a market for those dairy bull calves. When I was elected in 2001, we had the smell of burning flesh from the foot and mouth outbreak. Farmers have been through absolute hell. I urge the Minister to use all his charm, skill and wit to persuade the European Commission to allow vaccination for cattle as soon as possible. Even if badger culling succeeds, we can do more both for the people and for the cattle.

At the moment, farmers who live in a four-year testing area do not have to test for pre-movement. That is good, because the process is dangerous and unpleasant for both the farmer and his cattle. We need to recognise, too, the economic disadvantages of the process. It costs about £100 to do a pre-movement test for a cow. If the cow leaves a farmer’s property, it must be done and it lasts only for up to 60 days. A farmer may also wish to bring in a bull to see his cows. There is a lot more to this than just producing milk.

I have some fantastic dairy farmers, although they are smaller in number now. They are buying their cows from France because they are scared stiff of having TB on their farms. If they are shut down, their cattle will continue to produce calves and their sheds will become full. Calves need proper ventilation otherwise they get pneumonia. They have to be looked after properly. If a farmer is shut down they cannot do that, so their sheds fill up and they have more and more cattle on their property. The chance of a respiratory infection being passed through is increased and they are in a real mess. Again, that is more risk for the dairy farmer that is not reflected in the price.

Worse, farmers will be given the DEFRA compensation table, which has two sides—pedigree and non-pedigree. Hon. Members must urge their constituents to buy pedigree cattle because the compensation and the way in which it is calculated are significantly better. Moreover, it is taken over a six-month period instead of a one-month period. A pedigree heifer is worth £1,798 and a non-pedigree only £895, so a farmer will lose a great deal of money if they do not have pedigree stock. If they do not buy their pedigree stock from the UK, there is no market for those heifer calves that are being reared. Again, the vicious circle goes on. It is even worse than that because if the Government are paying more compensation, the price to the taxpayer goes up—we are heading now towards £100 million.

The dairy industry is racked not only by the price that we receive for milk but by the disproportionate risk that these people are taking, which is why the speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) on the risk to the families was so important. I urge the Government to do everything they can to support this vulnerable group of people.

[Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair)]

I thank hon. Members for their co-operation and for ensuring that everyone got to speak. There are now 15 minutes for those on the Front Bench, then I will ask Mr Neil Parish to wind up.