Arms Export Licences: Israel

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Tuesday 12th December 2023 Westminster Hall

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

Thank you, Sir Christopher; it is good to see you.

Let me be clear: the barbarous attacks on 7 October have no justification whatsoever, and Hamas are a terrorist organisation and a death cult. They should release all the hostages immediately before being prosecuted as the war criminals they are. Furthermore, the Scottish National party agrees wholeheartedly with the right of Israel to defend itself. That is the very basis of sovereignty and of international relations. What should not have to be said, however, is that that right to self-defence should be in accordance with international law, or even with the most basic aspects of our common humanity.

Concepts around collective punishment and the treatment of prisoners in wartime are not what those on the Government Benches might speak about on GB News as the preserve of the Islington set; rather, they have been central to the very idea of human rights and the correct prosecution of a just war for as long as those concepts have existed. It will therefore be no surprise, I hope, to hear that those of us in the SNP have no compunction about supporting the aims of today’s debate, and we thank the hon. Member for Coventry South (Zarah Sultana) for securing it

Before going on to the substantive reasons for that, I would like to briefly touch on the most underexamined aspects of this conflict: its intersection with the tedious and self-defeating debate on immigration in this political state, on which the Government seem intent on taking up more time today. We have had months of confected rage from those on the Government Benches about desperate people trying to cross the channel in flimsy boats, without really interrogating the many reasons why those people find themselves in that position.

If we consider the numbers of global conflicts that have caused instability and forced large numbers of people to flee, be they those in Syria, Afghanistan or Ukraine, and how these flows of people present opportunities for people traffickers ready to profit from human misery or indeed, on a broader level, for our geopolitical opponents to gain potential leverage by destabilising our democracies, we might expect one factor in this Government’s thinking to be how to avoid facilitating the sort of actions that set those population movements in motion.

As far as the people of Gaza actually having somewhere to go to escape the bombing, it is to Egypt and, within Egypt, to a part of the Sinai peninsula that has only recently come back under the full control of the Egyptian Government after Islamist insurrection. This is the first potential domino to fall, in a series that could see the return of the sort of instability that we saw in that country just over a decade ago. If this Government—and others, I must say, across Europe—found the prospect of 20 million Syrians on the move across the Med problematic, just wait until we see that happening with 100 million Egyptians.

Furthermore, these events do not take place in a vacuum. I would beseech both the Government and the Opposition spokespeople who follow me to take proper cognisance of the fact that our inability to ensure that our allies abide by international law in this instance will have a direct effect on how other states choose to approach their own obligations to international law in the future. We may not like the results, because we know that, while history may not always repeat itself, it certainly does rhyme.

I had not realised myself, until recently, the juxtaposition of the Suez crisis and the Hungarian uprising of 1956. The Soviet tanks poured into Budapest to—

[Sir Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

Order. I have listened to the hon. Gentleman patiently, and I was hoping that he was going to start talking about arms exports to Israel. We have had to cut the Back-Bench speeches short because more people wanted to talk about that subject, so I would be grateful if he now concentrated on the subject at hand.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

It is part of the narrative, Sir Christopher, and, as an Opposition spokesperson, I do believe that I have 10 minutes.

[Sir Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

Order. If you are challenging the Chair, I am going to order you to resume your seat.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

I am not challenging you, Sir Christopher; I am only trying to explore my own thinking on the very matter that you have asked me to come to, because I think it is critically important for the debate, which the hon. Member for Coventry South has brought today.

The reason that I mention that in relation to the Government’s decisions, in terms of the debate, is because the then Government were desperate to accrue international support for their invasion of the canal zone—which we have all seen the repercussions of—as opposed to actually supporting the people of Hungary. The difference between then and now, and this is what is important Sir Christopher, is that, I am afraid to say, unlike in 1956, there is no serious difference of opinion between the Government and the leadership of the Opposition—although that does not include some of the Opposition Members I see here today, I have to say.

[Sir Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

Order. I will order the hon. Gentleman to resume his seat if he carries on about the Hungarian revolution. I was at school with somebody whose father served in the diplomatic service in 1956 in Budapest, and I would love to talk about that, but it is not the subject of today’s debate. I will give the hon. Gentleman one more chance.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

Well, Chair, let me—sadly—move on, because clearly I am not being allowed to make the point that I wanted to make. However, I am sure that many Members can see the problems in which the Government and the leadership of the official Opposition find themselves.

Let me, sadly, bring my points to a close by reiterating my and my party’s position on these arms licences—I will be delighted to send my full speech on to any of my constituents, many hundreds of whom have emailed me about this issue, if they want to see it. Most of it will be of no surprise to anyone here today. The United Kingdom Government must do more than merely call on Israel to abide by international humanitarian law; they must be proactive in ensuring that no more innocent civilian lives are lost. The Israeli Government’s use of force has surpassed being legal and proportionate. There is a serious and pressing concern among the international community that states contributing to Israel’s military front may be complicit in the breach of international law and the death of over 15,000 innocent Palestinian civilians.

As such, Sir Christopher, we are asking the UK Government to cease extending arms licences to the state of Israel and to immediately halt the export of weapons or components, as has been mentioned, to the state of Israel, alongside our calls for an immediate ceasefire, the recognition of the Palestinian state and the support of the International Criminal Court’s investigation into potential war crimes.

But let us be clear: the United Kingdom will pay dearly for the moral equivalence that its current policy entails. While even the Labour leadership might not want to say it, we in the SNP are more than happy to remind the Government of this fact: violating international law may be a great wheeze to try and impress Daily Mail readers, but it has a habit of eating away at the state’s international reputation like acid. In this case, it is a great tragedy that the people of Gaza and others now involved in this conflict have to suffer so.

PANS and PANDAS

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Tuesday 12th September 2023 Westminster Hall

[Wendy Chamberlain]

A “living hell” is certainly how it has been described to me in conversations that I have had, not only because of the symptoms themselves and dealing with them, but because of the lack of support compounding that distress.

I will outline what PANS/PANDAS are. PANS is a condition in children and young people that can result from an initial mild infection such as chickenpox or covid. PANDAS is a specific sort of PANS that stems from strep. While the initial infection might be mild, in some cases it triggers a misdirected immune response and/or a brain inflammation that causes the rapid onset of severe symptoms, which can include obsessive compulsive disorder, tics, severely restricted food intake, anxiety, aggression, depression, memory deficiency, poor cognitive function and behavioural and developmental regression. These changes can and do take place literally overnight. Understandably, the impact of those symptoms on a child and their family is monumental. We do not need to be parents ourselves, although many of us here may be, to understand how utterly distressing it must be to have a formerly healthy, happy child suddenly find themselves unable to leave their bedroom, dress, eat, wash, talk to others or attend school and to see them vanish as the illness takes over. Sadly, that distress is compounded and worsened many times over by the lack of available support for patients and their families, as PANS is often not even suggested, considered or acknowledged.

Globally, PANS/PANDAS are recognised and treatment pathways have been set up. The World Health Organisation has explicitly acknowledged the conditions in its latest guidance. However, as things stand, there is neither NHS nor National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidance on the diagnosis or treatment of PANS/PANDAS in any part of the UK. That leaves patients subject to an unfair and arbitrary lottery. All the evidence suggests that the best treatment is early diagnosis and a two-week course of antibiotics. If that window is missed, antibiotics may become less effective and other treatments are needed.

However, in the UK, without those pathways the vast majority of children are given inappropriate and ineffective treatment for their symptoms, rather than for the underlying cause. That often involves long waits for mental health treatments from child and adolescent mental health services, which I think we all know and recognise are overburdened. In a survey carried out in 2020 for PANS PANDAS UK, 95% of parents said that their GP had not suggested PANS/PANDAS as a diagnosis. Often, they can suggest no diagnosis at all; families must then research and fight for treatment themselves. The reality is that, after months of seeing their child suffer without any explanation, families end up turning to private healthcare, but that it only an option for a few. It is only at that point that a diagnosis is forthcoming.

I suspect that I am like most MPs, in that I became aware of PANS because a constituent approached me for support with her local NHS doctor. In the run-up to this debate, I had the privilege of speaking to some of the children and young people who sit on the PANS PANDAS UK youth advisory board, who shared their experiences with me. Their experiences of being diagnosed are all different, with only one exception: they were all negative. If any of them are watching today, I want to thank them for being able to talk to me about their experiences. It was really important to hear directly from them, and I thank them very much for that.

One of the children on the board talked about the fact that the doctors really did nothing for her. Every time she went to the hospital, she was made to feel like a mystery. Because the doctors did not understand what was wrong with her, it felt as if they were just going to leave it and give up. Another child told us about being sent from place to place, with no medical department taking responsibility. She went through waiting list and waiting list, with no resolution, as the symptoms continued and worsened.

It is really important to remember that the initial recommendation on diagnosis is for two weeks of antibiotics. As a parent, I find it quite difficult to understand why that is not being pursued by GPs, because it treats the initial infection if it is PANS/PANDAS. It would prevent the symptoms from deteriorating further, which might lead to someone needing more mental health support. Frankly, if it is not PANS, the antibiotics will not work and we will be able to rule that out pretty quickly.

Almost all the children I spoke to had received private treatment and given up on the NHS, but private diagnosis and treatment plans are often rejected by local GPs and health boards. One child remembers a doctor saying that he would refuse to treat an American illness. Another was refused ongoing treatment because the consultant did not believe that PANS was real. Many children have their medications stopped when their parents move back to NHS care; indeed, this is something I am supporting one of my constituents with now, with NHS Fife newly refusing to provide prescriptions for privately recommended medication. That is despite the fact that my constituent’s child has had both an NHS and private diagnosis. Imagine being a child and going through the trauma of this change in your life and condition—it is terrifying—then being told by the adults treating you that they do not believe that what you are experiencing is real or exists.

There is a lack of direction from the top. I have asked before about the implementation of the World Health Organisation guidelines that will formally acknowledge PANS/PANDAS and its treatments within our domestic health systems, and I have been told it will take some time. In the meantime, children are suffering needlessly, as are their families. We have to consider the wider impact on the siblings of children experiencing this condition.

I understand that the Minister might not want to pre-empt the independent medical process relating to the NICE guidelines, but if she would confirm her position that PANS/PANDAS is as real as having a broken leg or the flu, I really believe that that would be a significant step. I hope that that will not be a difficult ask.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for securing the debate. I wonder whether they agree that clinical evidence and lived experience across the whole of the UK must inform the evidence base that clinicians and NICE make, and that that must be based on the reality experienced by our constituents who are suffering from PANS/PANDAS. Through this debate, I hope the hon. Member will be able to force that through not just to Ministers, but to the civil servants who are advising them and the clinicians who say that this condition does not exist.

[Wendy Chamberlain]

I am conscious that we need to deal with the medical profession in relation to this condition, but we must be able to do things as parliamentarians, and the Government must be able to do things too. Obviously, I am standing here as a Scottish MP, as is the hon. Member. It is about ensuring that there is parity of treatment across the UK.

As I say, I hope it will not be a difficult ask for the Minister to say that PANS/PANDAS is real, because I am privileged to have sight of a letter that she sent earlier this year to another Member, which confirmed such a position. In that letter she noted the common practice of treating infections with antibiotics and that PANS/PANDAS could be treated successfully in that way if caught early enough. I am sure she will also be aware of the PANS/PANDAS working group statement that was issued earlier this year.

The working group consisted of representatives from the British Paediatric Neurology Association, the Royal College of Psychiatrists, the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, the Royal College of Nursing, the Royal College of Occupational Therapists, and the British Paediatric Allergy, Immunity and Infection Group, as well as parents, social workers and campaigners. The statement is an important step. It signposts clinicians to the international peer-reviewed treatment guidance in the absence of peer-reviewed treatment guidance domestically. The position appears to be the same as the Minister set out in her letter. I therefore ask her to use her time today to confirm that to the House and pledge to make a written statement to the same effect. The power of such a statement in the face of doctors refusing to believe in your child’s illness would be literally life changing and potentially life saving. As I have said, as a Scottish MP I would want to see parity of support in Scotland. I hope that when the SNP spokesperson, the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows), speaks in the debate she will agree to take forward a request from me to the Cabinet Secretary for health to ensure that we see that parity of care in Scotland.

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[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is indeed a pleasure to speak in this debate.

First of all, I thank the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) for securing this very important debate and for, as always, setting the scene so well. She and I may be from different political parties, but when we clearly agree on social issues, I am more than pleased to come here and support her. I added my name, as did others, to early-day motion 948, submitted by the hon. Lady to highlight the issue of PANS and PANDAS. It is a reminder that the census estimated that between one in 200 children in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland are subject to this condition. The numbers are not minuscule; it resonates across the whole UK.

PANS and PANDAS are two related paediatric disorders that can have a profound impact on a child’s life. Those who have spoken before have outlined examples and interventions to illustrate the case being made so well. There is currently no uniform recognition or treatment for the condition, as the hon. Lady set out in her introduction. Although the World Health Organisation guidance recognises the condition and recommends treatment with antibiotics, that has yet to be adopted by the NHS. The Minister knows I have a fondness for her as a Minister. I know she does well and that her instinct is to respond well and to answer the questions that we ask. I look forward to hearing her response.

The NHS not recognising these conditions leaves families devastated as they struggle for treatment. Some families have said that they have been referred to CAMHS as an alternative to NHS treatment. That is not always the most appropriate treatment, by the way, but at least there is some response. Others have outlined the symptoms that PANS and PANDAS can include. We probably have all recognised them in our constituency cases, whether it be OCD, tics, restricted food intake, development regression, anxiety, depression, irritability—even hallucinations and delusions. Those are so great that they cannot be ignored.

The hon. Member for North East Fife sent us some information at our request, which we appreciate. That illustrates the issue the hon. Lady wants to put forward, so we can support her from a constituent’s point of view. When I read what the hon. Lady’s constituent, who is suspected to have PANS and PANDAS, had said, there was a real disconnect given that health is devolved.

The hon. Member for North East Fife referred to the comments of the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows), which I know, without even hearing those words, will also support the points of view that we are putting forward today. The devolved nations must now fight harder for an approach.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

Briefly on the devolved nations, does the hon. Gentleman recognise that we need to work with our colleagues in the Scottish Parliament, MSPs, with Members of the Senedd of Wales and, if it deigns to sit, Stormont, where MLAs need to reform themselves to make appropriate health policy for devolved nations.

[Jim Shannon]

I absolutely do think that. I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. At the end of my contribution, I was going to ask for that very thing. The hon. Gentleman has reminded me and the House of the importance of all the devolved nations working together, in tandem and alongside the Minister here at Westminster.

The symptoms of PANS and PANDAS can make education and school life difficult for children and young people. I know education is not the Minister’s responsibility, but I believe there is a need for the two Departments to work in tandem. Schools have a duty to support children and young people with medical needs, and that wee bit of extra support must be there for our young people. PANS PANDAS UK has been providing free and online CPD-accredited training for a wide range of professionals, including educational psychologists, specialists and support teachers. That is indeed a much welcomed step.

Will the Minister reaffirm what the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire said in his intervention: ensure that at Westminster the evidential and factual base and the information that the Minister has in her Department is shared with the devolved Administrations? I believe that sometimes here at Westminster, the Government should drive the policy for the devolved nations. I know that matters are evolving and that responsibility lies with the devolved nations, but the Government will not find us wanting. They will not find the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Parliament or the Northern Ireland Assembly wanting when it comes to working collectively to make life better for our constituents.

We are discussing a devastating condition, which impacts children and their families. The NHS must do more to support parents in learning how to cope with it, and research must be better funded to assist with diagnosing the condition. There is much more to do to support those with the disease.

I thank the hon. Member for North East Fife for raising the matter today, and every right hon. and hon. Member who has contributed through speeches and interventions, and those who will contribute shortly. I look forward to the shadow Ministers’ contributions and particularly to that of the Minister. I say to her that the eyes of all of us will be upon her as the Minister, and upon the Government, looking for the response that we hope to receive.

Pride Month

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Thursday 15th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Dame Angela Eagle]

There is increasing evidence of that kind of global network operating in a reactionary manner. The Global Philanthropy Project reports that the anti-gender movement outspent the LGBT+ rights movement by three to one between 2013 and 2017, deploying $3.7 billion of resource, and creating an extensive network of organisations to push their divisive, pernicious agenda. Key funders were based in the USA and Europe, with Russian oligarchs playing a key role in Europe. We know that Putin talks about this a lot; we know that Orbán talks about it a lot. We know that in the Spanish election such anti-trans rhetoric is being used by the Opposition.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

There is an issue about how that money is financed: about the relationship between financing dark money and extreme right-wing propaganda and possibly the use of Scottish limited partnerships. Does the hon. Lady agree that it is time the Government got a grip on that?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Speaking personally, and not as someone on the Treasury Bench—I have no idea what their view would be—I agree with the hon. Gentleman. Scottish limited partnerships are an obvious loophole that needs to be closed much sooner rather than later, and he is correct to point it out.

After all this, it is not a coincidence that the American Civil Liberties Union has revealed that by April this year—not the end of this year, but April—417 anti-LGBT+ Bills had been introduced in state legislatures across the United States, and 283 were education-related Bills. There are increasing numbers of so-called “don’t say gay” Bills that, section 28-like, seek to ban discussion of trans issues in schools. Some “force outings” by mandating that parents should always be informed of any pronoun change at school, or any discussion about it, because they somehow perpetrate the narrative that schools are secretly teaching children to be trans and not to tell their parents. Others ban drag performances; still others ban the pride flag being flown from any public building, and threaten to prosecute parents who allow their children to change pronouns and live in the gender that they wish to live in. Even if that is parental choice, they seek to legislate to go into people’s homes and stop that happening. These are not nice, benign Bills; they are increasingly extreme. Almost all those proposals—not quite all of them—are now being suggested in the UK, with the current exception of the ban on drag, although there have been some far-right demonstrations against “drag story time” events in Britain.

We need to say from this Chamber that the way forward is empathy, not division; it is understanding different and diverse people, and what they need to thrive in society. It is about understanding, not fear, and respect for the right of everyone to live with dignity in an inclusive and diverse society. Pride is about that.

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[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Elliot Colburn) on bringing the debate to the House. I am a vice-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on global lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT+) rights along with him and the hon. Members for Wallasey (Dame Angela Eagle) and for Darlington (Peter Gibson).

I begin by associating myself with some of the comments made by the hon. Member for Wallasey about funding, which is a critical issue when we are dealing with hate targeting the LGBT community. I cannot underestimate the impact of dark money in feeding the far right wing in the United States. This House really needs to get a grip on that, especially in relation to Scottish Limited Partnerships.

The right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) was elected back in 1997. Many of us watched his election, because what we saw was an openly gay man standing for this House, even with so much thrown against him. We were glad, even on the SNP Benches, that he was elected; it was a great moment for many of us.

I also want to mention someone who never got into this House, because of the profoundly disturbing campaign against him during the election campaign in Bermondsey in the ’80s: Peter Tatchell. Peter is a Marmite person for many, but the campaign led against him back then exposes that all the political parties represented here have many different aspects to their history. Even those of us in the SNP have had issues around LGBTQ rights. Every political party has its history, and not all of it is great in standing up for equality. Peter should have had the opportunity to be here. I think he is a great loss to parliamentary democracy, but he campaigns vigorously outside this House and many people, including myself, are very grateful for that.

[Lloyd Russell-Moyle]

Peter has run a successful campaign to try to get an apology from the Metropolitan police and other police forces around the UK. The Metropolitan police made an apology as recently as last week, after his campaign success. Should that not lead to other police forces around the country apologising for their treatment of LGBT people historically?

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

The hon. Gentleman is right; yes, is the simple answer. Peter also eventually got an apology from the Ministry of Defence for serving veterans who were so badly treated because of their sexuality.

I think I am the first openly LGBTQ Member for West Dunbartonshire, but like the right hon. Member for Exeter, that was not the first time I was elected. That was 31 years ago, to the old Clydebank District Council. It is a shipyard town, a burgh town—for the avoidance of doubt for Hansard that is spelled b, u, r, g, h. Growing up in a very working-class, Irish-Catholic background, sexuality, for many reasons, was never discussed, whether LGBTQ or anything else, because we had to deal with so many other profound issues of class and how that impacted our lives through poverty.

I was honoured to be elected back in 1992, but I did not come out to many of my friends until many years later. Actually, I came out before that. What am I saying? My mind has gone very foggy in my old age. I came out to my friends Neil and Stephen when I was 19, and their first reaction was, “Alright. Okay, tell us something we didn’t know; can we go to the Radnor Park pub for a pint? Right, okay, nae bother.” They, like me, are very open individuals—Stephen especially, because of his trade union involvement. As a heterosexual man and a trade unionist, he is keenly aware now, as he was back then, about dignity and equality for all.

But I was a lucky one. There were so many in my community, not just my hometown of Clydebank, but across Dumbarton and the Vale of Leven who did not get that support and whose lives were ended through sheer ignorance and hate—and that is not just those who died because of HIV and AIDS and the traumas that we in the community went through. That is why in 2015 I was glad that my sexuality was not an issue for anybody —absolutely no one. That said, it might be now!

Why are these issues important? It is important to reflect on where some of us, of a certain age, have come from, and why we believe it is so important that so many of the people behind us—those younger folk, who are under 50-odd—require that support. That is why I am grateful for the work of organisations such as the Equality Network in Scotland, the Time for Inclusive Education—TIE—campaign, Scottish Trans and LGBT Youth Scotland. Ignorance breeds hate, and with hate comes oppression. That is why I said earlier that all the political parties represented in the House have a sometimes dark history when it comes to LGBT rights, but it is also relevant to the issue of our relationships, in this House, with other countries.

We have already heard mention of the Commonwealth. I have to be open about this: I am not a big fan, and that is not just because I am a member of the LGBT community. I keep being given the same answer—that the Commonwealth is doing a lot to promote LGBTQ issues—but I have to say that in the last 10 years it has not been doing enough to stop the dreadful ramping up of hate that we are now seeing in Uganda and many other countries. That brings me back to the point made by the right hon. Member for Wallasey about the systemic use of dark money, coming through the Russian Federation, possibly being used in the Scottish limited partnerships, going through Ukraine into the United States and then feeding into the entire continent of Africa. We have already talked about Uganda, where LGBTQ people are subject to life imprisonment or possibly the death penalty; that is an extraordinary state of affairs.

To my mind—and this is a personal issue—the Commonwealth is failing LGBTQ citizens in the majority of countries. It is an absolute disgrace, but how has it come about? Let us be clear: it is a hangover from a imperial and colonial legal system, based on white supremacy, racism and homophobia, which was imposed on many of those nations and is now being manipulated by dark money. We need to recognise that the foundations of those principles go to the heart of the reactionary right wing.

We have heard about books being banned in the United States, and possibly being burnt next. I grew up in a community that was obliterated during the second world war. For people like me, the Nazi regime is not the ghost of some distant past but something that has had a dreadful, post-traumatic effect on our entire community. We need only look at what the regime did in the lead-up to taking full power after the Weimar Republic to understand how we now see ourselves in many parts of the world, notably the United States, where school boards are banning books that refer to dignity and equality. We know where that leads.

In 1935 the Nazis revised paragraph 175 of the existing statute of the German criminal code that banned sexual relations between men. Under the new Nazi version of the statute, a wide range of intimate and sexual behaviours could be, and were, punished as crimes. As a consequence, between 5,000 and 15,000 men were imprisoned in concentration camps for being “homosexuell”. This group of prisoners were typically required to wear a pink triangle on their camp uniforms as part of the prisoner classification system. Many, but not all, of those pink-triangle prisoners identified as gay; notably, it would be gay men who were given that definition. The pink triangle called attention to this prisoner population as a distinct group. It is dreadful to think that even within the concentration camps there was a division of terror and hate, but that is the reality.

It is important for us to remind ourselves that that constant narrative of hate needs to be exposed. It needs to be taken head-on, not only by this Government but by other Governments. I am glad that the Minister for Equalities is on the Front Bench, because I know he is a keen advocate of LGBTQ issues and that, as other Members have suggested, he will speak up in Government. However, I think he needs to give some answers to questions about conversion therapy, and he needs to give answers to my Parliament in Scotland—the one that I participate in and vote for—about why it is not being allowed to proceed with its Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill. That is an extraordinary position for a devolved Administration in the 21st century to find itself in, especially given Scotland’s history in relation to homosexuality.

We have come so far in Scotland. We did not decriminalise homosexuality until 1980; I think it was done in 1967 in England and Wales. That gives us some idea of the utterly dreadful situations that the LGBT community faced in Scotland. What a difference; what a change. We can look at other European nations as well. I come from a very strong Irish Catholic background, and I never thought in a month of Sundays that the Republic of Ireland would have a referendum on equal marriage. Let us get the wording right first of all: it is “equal marriage”, not “same-sex marriage”. My marriage to my husband is the same as that of anyone else in the Chamber. It is not different; it is equal. My sexuality is irrelevant. That is what the law is about when it comes to equal marriage.

Let us consider what has happened in countries such as Ireland and Malta. The fact that in Ireland, a public referendum for the entire citizenry of the Catholic nation endorsed equal marriage was extraordinary, and the subsequent election of an openly LGBT Taoiseach was the most profound change. Gender recognition in Ireland came about because of a public discourse. It was not just about politicians; it was about people’s assemblies coming together to discuss the deep issues that may supposedly divide people. The Irish people made up their minds and said, “Get on with it”, and in 2015 the Dáil—and, of course, the Oireachtas, because it went forward to the Seanad—said yes. That led to the Gender Recognition Act 2015. Where was the hoo-hah in Ireland? There was none, and since then a review has been more forthright in its support for the trans community in Ireland.

Let me end by emphasising this point to the Minister: Pride is a demonstration. It is not just about parties. Some of us are mindful of the people who did not make it this far: we are mindful of the black and Latino trans women in California who, in the 1950s, were the bedrock of LGBT rights, and other black and Latino trans women in New York— people like Marsha P. Johnson—were the bedrock of gay rights for white gay men like me. They turned up, and that is why I am here today. I am turning up in memory of them.

I hope the Minister will answer the answer the questions about conversion therapy and about why his Government think that the Government of Scotland do not have the right to a gender recognition Bill.

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[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

I am really grateful to be able to sum up this debate for my party. It is always a privilege to do that. I feel fortunate to have listened to all the contributions today, which have been powerful and important, not least the opening speeches from the hon. Members for Carshalton and Wallington (Elliot Colburn) and for Wallasey (Dame Angela Eagle). The personal reflections we have heard today were exceptional. The speech by the hon. Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson) was full of warmth. I, too, wish a happy 15th anniversary to him and Gareth—I am glad he repeated the name because I nearly wished a happy anniversary to him and Richard, which would have caused some confusion in that household.

My hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes) gave a powerful look back. That was important as we reflect on where we are now. The hon. Member for Warrington North (Charlotte Nichols) was on point when we heard why we should aim for “supportive indifference” for everyone. That is where we need to get to. We are not there yet, which is why need to reflect on Pride, more than 50 years on. We must remember that it was conceived not as a parade, fabulous though Pride parades are, but as a protest and that the necessity for protest remains.

There is much to be positive about today, but we cannot shy away from the real concerns that exist, too. I will start on a positive note. The powerful contributions we heard about social change over decades were important. The fact we have a cross-party group of people here in the Chamber today making contributions who are all on the same track is important.

On a personal level, it is important to me to be a member of a party that has equality and LGBT rights front and centre. I thank Out for Independence for the work it does as our LGBT wing in the SNP. That work is important because, as we have heard, we all have work to do. It matters to me because I want to live in a fairer, more equal, independent Scotland, and celebrating our LGBT communities must be central to that. We have made real progress already in Scotland. My hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire has talked about the journey we have come on, with the Scottish Government’s work on non-binary identities, human rights, hate crime, LGBT health and gender reform. The commitment to LGBT lives being improved runs through the work of our Government. It is clear in the welcome commitment that the Scottish Government have made to ending conversion practices. I hope the Minister has something positive to say to us on that because, clearly, everyone should feel secure to be themselves; they should have no fear, no worry, about being themselves. The harm that is caused by this delay is immense. I heard the Leader of the House at business questions this morning describing conversion practices as “appalling” and I agree with that. That is why we need to see progress —it has been years and years—and the progress needs to be inclusive. It cannot have a consent loophole. It cannot leave out trans people.

That depressing note was echoed in what my hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire said about the UK Government’s determination to ride roughshod over the cross-party votes of the Scottish Parliament in relation to gender recognition reform. The people who are affected by this are already potentially the most vulnerable and marginalised. They are not there to be a constitutional football. This measure was introduced after huge and significant consultation. I thought the comments earlier about the importance of adopting a respectful tone are absolutely right. I always aim to do that. The principle of respect is crucial, and that has run through the work that has been done.

For me, LGBT rights go hand in hand with all our rights. This is definitely not the first time I have said this—it is not even the first time that I have said it this week—but I think it is worth saying again: I am a middle-aged woman and a feminist and my rights as a woman are in no way imperilled or in conflict with my support for LGBT rights.

One issue that has been spoken about quite a lot today is education—supporting all young people to recognise, positively, that we are all different, and that families come in many and various forms. That is a far cry from my own school days in the 1980s. I mentioned earlier this week that my own large high school, although a decent school, had no LGBT pupils in the 1980s; obviously that is not true. Obviously, there were many, but you would not have known because we could not talk about those things in those days. The hon. Member for Darlington spoke in a similar tone about his own school days. I am very grateful that things are different now. I know that, in my constituency of East Renfrewshire, our schools do a fantastic job on this. I am very grateful for the care and attention they give to all our young people. A special mention should be made—because I have been there most recently, but all the schools do a very good job— of the thoughtful and open way that LGBT education is managed in Mearns Castle High School. It does a fantastic job of making it a normal part of school life that everyone is celebrated and regarded as important. So hats off to them.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

On that point, there has been a huge change in the Scottish education system, not only in non-denominational schools, but even in denominational schools. The Catholic Bishops’ Conference of Scotland accepted the recommendations of the Time for Inclusive Education campaign. We have come a long way, have we not?

[Kirsten Oswald]

My hon. Friend has obviously read my speech. We have indeed come a long way. I want to talk about the TIE campaign, which does such a good job. It is particularly important that we speak about this today, given some of the contributions that we have heard. The TIE campaign delivers LGBT inclusive education training. It supports teachers to develop their own curriculum materials in this area and facilitates teaching and learning about prejudice, discrimination and diverse families. It looks at past and present LGBT figures. It does that to support our schools in developing a greater understanding of diversity within our communities and within wider society.

Obviously, the knock-on impact for pupils in terms of their rights, their knowledge about equality, the impact of stereotyping and prejudice is immense. That matters because education is so vital in preventing hatred based on ignorance. We need to look at some of the statistics that we have heard today to put that in context. The Rainbow Europe statistics for 2022 showed the UK dropping from 10th to 14th place over only one year. There is no doubt in my mind that the climate in which we all live is, in many ways, that bit less accepting and that bit more fragile for our LGBT communities.

Hate crime statistics back that up. There has been a significant and continued rise in hate crime figures in the UK—and in Scotland, too—against LGBT people. The hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington put that really well.

Of course, as we have heard today, this is not an issue that is only particular to us here. Undoubtedly, across the world, dark clouds are gathering. We have heard about the Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda and anti-LGBT measures in Florida and other states. Reports there suggest considerable increases in hostility and practical difficulties for people just trying to live their lives. Notably, there is hostility in Rwanda. That is a particular cause for concern, given that this Government are determined to send people seeking asylum in the UK to Rwanda, despite the UK Government’s own travel advice warning against LGBT people travelling to Rwanda.

The right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) talked very eloquently about the culture wars, which do so much harm, and which, absolutely, must be resisted here. I would say that culture wars have absolutely no place in our politics. None of us should be engaging in or amplifying that kind of discourse. My hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire spoke very powerfully about the funding of hate and the funding of these campaigns. Our responsibility here in this place is to stand up and shine a light.

Therefore, we do have a particular responsibility in this place. We have a responsibility to speak up as well as to celebrate. I do not think that I can put that better than the First Minister Humza Yousaf. He was speaking when the UK Government decided to block the Gender Recognition Reform Bill. He said:

“I am firmly committed to equality for everybody because your rights are my rights regardless of who you are…My starting point is that I’ve been a minority in this country my whole life. I have understood that you have to fight for your rights, but my rights don’t exist in a vacuum or in isolation. They exist because other people’s rights exist too.”

We all live in a better place when we all actively stand up for all of our communities.

I want to conclude on a positive note. I wish a happy Pride to all those in Scotland and across the UK and further afield who will be on Pride parades this month. It was good to hear from the hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Gerald Jones) about the first Pride parade in his area. The hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Lloyd Russell-Moyle) painted quite a fabulous picture of various Pride events. A number of years ago, I took my children on a Pride march. It is fair to say that they had a really good day. In fact, one of them requested to go again the next day, which, obviously, was not possible, but I hope—perhaps against my own expectation—that that spirit of celebrating and of welcoming progress is the direction of travel that we see this year. Happy Pride Month.

--- Later in debate ---

[Anneliese Dodds]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that important point. I am also grateful to him and many others in the Chamber for the work they have done on that issue, with the amazing organisation Fighting With Pride, which has worked so hard on it. I encourage the Minister to do all he can to ensure that that review is published, because we need to act on it and act urgently. Sadly, that injustice lasted for a long period, so we are talking about some people who are reaching their older years now. They need to see the outcomes of that review. They have been incredibly brave in talking about their experiences and, having heard some of their stories, the manner in which they have responded, despite appalling, traumatic experiences, has been incredible to behold. They need that resolution and support so that they can move forward and have at least a little closure, if not justice, on what happened to them.

The fact that that ban endured for so long reminds us how difficult it was for LGBT+ people. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Gerald Jones) for his reflections on what has changed, in one of many moving speeches we have heard in this debate. He referred to the 1985 vote for a resolution committing to lesbian and gay rights in the Labour party, and I was proud that Labour led the way in delivering a number of moves towards greater LGBT+ equality.

There are many people in this Chamber who pushed for and helped to deliver those changes. My right hon. Friend the Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) detailed that record; in the interests of time I will not repeat his word, but I want to be crystal clear in saying when Labour is next in government, as I hope we will be, we will continue to stand up for LGBT+ people and build on that proud history of breaking down barriers for everyone. To any LGBT+ person who is watching this debate I say, “Labour will always have your back.”

It is important to say that because, as so many have reflected, these are worrying times for many LGBT+ people. There have been many reflections on the appalling rise in hate crime. Hate crime motivated by sexual orientation has risen by almost 500% over the past decade; crimes targeting transgender identity are up by over 1,000% and violent offences have increased sixfold across all five strands of hate crime over the same period.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

I need to push a point: when it comes to the Government’s invoking section 35 of the Scotland Act 1998 against the Parliament of Scotland on its Gender Recognition Act, where does the hon. Lady’s Front-Bench team stand?

[Anneliese Dodds]

I am grateful for that intervention. I believe the hon. Member will be well aware of where Labour has stood on these matters, as we always stand on these matters: we believe it is incredibly important that LGBT+ people are not used as a political football in any circumstances. We have long called for a resolution to that issue and for the Scottish and UK Governments to work with each other, but I am afraid that they did not do that. We should have seen that, and above all we should have seen trans people treated fairly during this period. I am afraid it is they who have been let down.

I know that some on the Government side—not the Minister, I am sure—may say that the rise in hate crime is down to better recording of hate crime rather than an increase in crime itself. Although we welcome, of course, improvements in police-recorded hate crime, that does not explain the huge soaring of the levels of hate crime against LGBT+ people and other groups. My party will follow the recommendation made by the Law Commission five years ago to strengthen and equalise the law so that every category of hate crime is treated as an aggravated offence. This is not about redefining what hate crime is, as some have wrongly claimed; it is about fixing a basic inequality in the law so that everyone who falls victim to hate crime is treated equally. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington North (Charlotte Nichols) for her powerful words on that subject. The Government should have made that change years ago, and I hope that the Minister will commit to doing so today.

Labour will also seek to build consensus around modernising the Gender Recognition Act to remove indignities for trans people while upholding the Equality Act, its protected characteristics and its provision for single-sex spaces. We will also appoint an international LGBT+ rights envoy to raise awareness and improve rights across the world—rights on which many countries are, unfortunately, going backwards, as Members have reflected. The hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington rightly spoke about Britain’s influence in that matter. We can do more, however, and I praise the Kaleidoscope Trust for all its work in that area.

We have heard again, perhaps understandably, the claim that this is the gayest Parliament in the world. I know that there are gay, lesbian, bi and trans people in Parliaments right across the world, but sadly they are far too often unable to be public about who they are because of the appalling reprisals that they would suffer.

Oral Answers to Questions

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Thursday 18th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his question. He may have noticed that we recently launched a paper, “Smarter Regulation to Grow the Economy”, so we absolutely agree with that point. Some of the measures it proposes are about ensuring that Ministers, officials and others look at alternatives to regulation, rather than jumping straight to regulation, and have an earlier impact assessment of what regulation would mean for businesses’ costs, rather than just looking at other factors. I absolutely agree with him that the best regulator is competition—the No. 1 thing we want to drive forward—which is also the best thing for growth. I am keen to talk to him about this matter in further detail after these questions.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

A huge element of growth in the digital market is the crypto industry. The European Parliament has just signed off the Markets in Cryptoassets Regulation. That ambitious and forward-thinking law gives the European Union the first rules to govern the crypto industry. When will this Government do the same?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

We are looking at the crypto sector carefully, and there was a report yesterday from the Treasury Committee on that matter. The crypto sector is moving at pace, and it is important that regulation keeps up with that. We have regulated already on some of the promotions around cryptocurrency, and it is something we will keep under scrutiny. I am sure my Treasury colleagues will be doing that even more than I shall.

Oral Answers to Questions

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Thursday 23rd March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Kemi Badenoch]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for highlighting the guide to doing business in Ukraine that my Department published. It provides an overview of the Ukrainian market, including setting out Ukraine’s reconstruction needs and the expected financing and procurement routes for reconstruction projects. It is accompanied by information on the business environment, trading agreements between our countries and logistical guidance. The information is intended to help businesses considering working in and with Ukraine to understand how their market works and encourage industry to increase trade with Ukraine.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

Maybe one of the best ways to assist in increasing trade with Ukraine is to limit the opportunities for the Russian Federation to access Scottish limited partnerships. Does the Secretary of State agree that there is still time to improve and strengthen the Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill to limit them?

[Kemi Badenoch]

In co-ordination with our allies, we have implemented the most severe economic sanctions ever imposed on any major economy and will maintain pressure on the Russian regime to secure peace. If the hon. Gentleman will write to me with more detail about what he is referring to, I can look into it, but I assure him that this Government are doing everything we can within the Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill to ensure the integrity of our economy and our allies.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kemi Badenoch]

No.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

Further to the negotiations for a free trade agreement with India, can the Minister perhaps update the House on the impact of the closure of the internet in the state of Punjab over the last week, and the reduction in freedom of expression for the majority of the Sikh population of that state?

[Nigel Huddleston]

As I mentioned in answer to a previous question, when it comes to other issues, including human rights and freedom of the press, these are conversations we also have with our friends and colleagues around the world. We cannot deal with all these issues with free trade agreements.

Whistleblowing Awareness Week

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Thursday 23rd March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

It is good to see you in the Chair, Ms McDonagh. Let me first thank the hon. Member for Cheadle (Mary Robinson) for gaining this debate today and also thank her and the secretariat of the all-party group for whistle- blowing for their hard work.

Before I proceed with my speech, I wish to touch on one thing that the hon. Member mentioned, which is the notion of what an employee is. I hope the Minister and the Government will take that on board. For example, before I came to this House in 2015, I had worked as an employee in the voluntary sector in my own constituency and community of West Dunbartonshire for more than a decade. I am keenly aware of—I do not want to say “work” here—the voluntary activity that delivers public services, and also private business, if someone is seeking to gain experience, in all of our communities. I hope the Minister hears what the hon. Lady and the all-party group are saying about that issue, because volunteers can be some of the most vulnerable people in our society. They include not just those who have retired and want to do something active in later life, or those gaining additional experience, for example in the health service—not just in trusts but on boards in Scotland—but some of the most vulnerable people in society. Having a broader definition, such as “an individual service provider”, might assist the Government.

The SNP is clear that whistleblowing is crucial to a free and open democratic society. It is an integral part of exposing crime, corruption and cover-ups, and a pillar supporting transparency. A democratic and just society, I am sure all Members agree, has a duty to create a culture in which speaking up is valued and in which people who try to silence whistleblowers or suppress evidence of wrongdoing face the full force of the law.

I congratulate those who have brought about Whistle-blowing Awareness Week, which is an opportunity to celebrate people who speak out on workplace issues, call out corruption and expose criminal actions. It is only right that we recognise that whistleblowers are an important check on power structures in Government—and, indeed, in our own political parties, the media, business and other areas. We saw that during the pandemic; the consequences played out in Parliament this week. The issues relating to the Met are not just for it to think about, but for wider society.

As a tech geek, I am mindful of the investigative journalists who revealed the Cambridge Analytica story—remember them? Whistleblowers such as Chris Wylie and Brittany Kaiser divulged the global extent of data manipulation on digital platforms, and shifted conversations about data rights and political malpractice to the top of the public and political agenda. Like many whistleblowers, such individuals are vulnerable to retaliation for their actions. Although there are laws in place to protect them, sometimes those laws are not adequate or effective in their application.

Such individuals always seem to rise to the challenge and face the threats made against them. A Facebook whistleblower, Frances Haugen, revealed that hateful political ads are five times cheaper for customers—it has been referred to as subsidising hate. She did that with 22,000 pages secretly copied from company documents that proved her claims. She provided evidence here in Westminster and in the United States Congress. She said:

“I think the part that informed my journey was: You have to accept when you whistle-blow like this that you could lose everything. You could lose your money, you could lose your freedom, you could alienate everyone who cares about you. There’s all these things that could happen to you. Once you overcome your fear of death, anything is possible. I think it gave me the freedom to say: Do I want to follow my conscience?”

I have to say, I am glad Frances did.

The National Crime Agency’s annual fraud indicator estimates fraud losses to the UK at about £190 billion every year. The private sector is hit the hardest, losing about £140 billion. The public sector loses more than £40 billion, and individual civilians lose about £7 billion.

The SNP believes that whistleblowing laws ought to be reformed, as the hon. Member for Cheadle said, to better protect whistleblowers calling out bad actors. With Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998, the UK became the first EU country, as it was then, to introduce new whistleblowing legislation. It was heralded as a watershed moment, and expectations were high, given that whistle- blowing was now seen as legitimate, but we know that employers may be better protected now by placing a gagging clause on workers—a clause in an employment contract or a compromise agreement that purports to prohibit a worker from disclosing information about their current or former workplace. A compromise agreement is a contract concluded at the end of an employment relationship that seeks to prevent further disputes. Typically, it is accompanied by a payment to a worker.

According to the very good work of the all-party group for whistleblowing:

“Whistleblowers in general remain the subject of suspicion and scepticism and while organisations and official bodies sing the merits of whistleblowing and parade their policies and procedures, the lived experience of whistleblowers remains poor. For those who embark upon a legal remedy the chance of success is less than 10%, the personal cost in financial terms is beyond the means of most people and the physical and mental cost untold.”

There is therefore, as the all-party group says, an

“urgent need to completely rethink UK whistleblowing law and make it fit for the 21st century.”

The all-party group argues for a whistleblowing Bill, which the SNP would support. As the hon. Member for Cheadle has already said, the Bill would define whistleblowers and whistleblowing in law. It would properly and clearly set out the duties of relevant persons and establish an office of the whistleblower with the responsibility to uphold the rights of whistleblowers, but also to set, monitor and enforce the new standards. The Bill proposes a multi-level, multi-stakeholder approach to emphasise the value of whistleblowers and the crucial role they play in a healthy society. I call on the Government to heed the calls of not only the all-party parliamentary group, but the hon. Member for Cheadle.

I will end on the issue of volunteers. If Government Ministers require briefings, for example from the national body of volunteering in Scotland, Volunteer Scotland, I am sure it would help. There will be many people across all these islands who would look to extend whistleblowing legislation to cover those who deliver public service as well as sometimes giving up their free time to deliver private wealth.

--- Later in debate ---

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

indicated dissent.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

No? I thought the hon. Gentleman was.

In law, NDAs cannot be used to prevent a worker from blowing the whistle, so there are some protections in law in that respect. I believe the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Feltham and Heston, also brought out that point.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

That brings me to my next point. My hon. Friend makes a very good point, but the employment tribunal is there to settle compensation. It is the regulators in the various sectors that are there to look at the problem, the detriment, and to consider the whistleblowing concerns and act on them. That cannot be restricted by an NDA in that kind of compensation settlement, I think.

What I regard as the key point in my hon. Friend’s contribution today is the proposal for an office of the whistleblower. I quite understand that the intent is to provide one central place for whistleblowing and to make sure that we have best practice across the piece. Such an office would provide consistency in standards for regulatory investigations triggered by whistleblowing information. I am also interested in the issues that dealing with whistleblowing disclosures might raise for the prescribed persons, and vice versa.

I know there are concerns, not just in Government but in wider circles, about how such an office would interact with the role of regulators, who are experts, of course. It is important that we look at the arguments for and against the proposed office, and I am keen to look at international examples. My hon. Friend referred to the USA. The numbers of disclosures there are interesting. According to my figures, there were 50,000 protected disclosures in the UK in 2020-21. I think my hon. Friend said that 20,000 were dealt with by the Office of the Whistleblower in the US, which is obviously a much bigger country in terms of population and potential whistleblowing. I am interested in the gap.

One point to make is that a UK office of the whistleblower would of course need extensive resources to be able to handle or to oversee 50,000 protected disclosures, and significant expertise to ensure that it fully understood the nature of the problem and was able to work alongside the regulators, which I think is what my hon. Friend envisages, rather than replace the regulators in terms of their functions. Clearly, regulators themselves, be it the FCA or the regulators in the NHS, would have a responsibility to ensure that the issues were addressed properly and whistleblowing guidelines and processes were followed. It is a question of understanding the interaction between the two and what resources would be needed to fully and properly fund an office of the whistleblower.

All these matters need to be taken into account in deciding how to proceed. The review, as I have said, is something that we want to bring forward very quickly, and we want hon. Members on both sides of the House to be able to input into it.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

Will the Minister assure hon. Members that in the review he will take cognisance of the question about what an employee delivering a service is? The millions of volunteers across these islands need reassurance. They need to be protected and given the ability to be a whistleblower within the system.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very fair point, which I think was referred to earlier. Some of the whistleblowers I have dealt with were outside the current legislation because of their employment status, so I think that it is a very fair point and it is one that we are very keen to explore through the review.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle again for initiating this very important debate. We are in complete agreement: there should be no doubt that to blow the whistle is an act of real value to both business and society at large. Government, including my Department, will continue to examine and make reforms to the whistleblowing regime, and we will be setting out details of the review of the whistleblowing framework very soon.

Oral Answers to Questions

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Wednesday 8th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Maria Caulfield]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that there are disparities. There is an eight-year difference in life expectancy between a woman born in Blackpool and a woman born in Woking, and we want to end that. That is why our major conditions strategy is in parallel with the work that NHS England is doing on its Core20PLUS5, where we are targeting the 20% most deprived populations and the five key health conditions that are making those disparities apparent today.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

The average life expectancy of a woman with a learning disability is around 18 years shorter than women in the general population, so on this International Women’s Day, what can the Minister say to women with learning disabilities about the disparity in their life expectancy in Britain?