NHS

Debate between Victoria Atkins and Jim Shannon

Thursday 23rd May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

My hon. Friend has devoted her career in this place not only to representing the steelworkers in her constituency, but to her constituents’ healthcare, and it is thanks to her campaigning, and that of other colleagues, that we have a CDC, and facilities like that, in her local area. She has very tactfully described my position. I, of course, acknowledge my awareness of her campaign, and I really look forward to working with her in the future to see whether we can ensure that the residents of Scunthorpe—and the residents of Grimsby—have those services that we all hold so dear.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State very much for her statement. It is clear that the NHS is, in some cases, in need of critical care. While we all prepare for an election, there are ill and vulnerable people unable to prepare for the surgery and treatment that they so desperately need. How will the Secretary of State ensure that, while this Parliament dissolves, the NHS continues to consolidate and grow, and delivers much-needed diagnoses and operations for its patients—our constituents?

[Victoria Atkins]

I thank the hon. Gentleman. One of the joys of this Parliament has been to have him contributing in every statement and debate. On the particular healthcare needs in Northern Ireland, he will appreciate that healthcare is devolved, and that we are all very mindful of recent history, in terms of the devolution of power in that particular set of circumstances. However, I have very much enjoyed working with the Health Minister, Minister Swann.

Clearly, we value our United Kingdom, and we want to do whatever we can to help all corners of the United Kingdom in healthcare—although, of course, we respect that they are devolved matters. That is why I want to work closely with my counterpart in Northern Ireland, and, as I have indicated—or am indicating now— I would be very happy to work with the Health Ministers in Scotland and Wales to help them with their waiting lists.

Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Debate between Victoria Atkins and Jim Shannon

2nd reading
Tuesday 16th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

To be clear, is my right hon. Friend suggesting that we repeal the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, under which cannabis is prohibited? Although I have no experience of it, I understand that the consumption of marijuana also involves the consumption of tobacco and cigarette papers. The point is that we are trying to move away from the idea that current youngsters will be able to buy their cigarettes legally in shops from the age of 18 in 2027, precisely because we want to ensure that they can lead longer, healthier lives. In a moment I will come to some of the myths that the tobacco industry has put around about the impact of introducing age restrictions on cigarettes, which will be interesting evidence for those who are concerned about that.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

First of all, I commend the Secretary of State and the Government for bringing forward this legislation. I support it because I believe it is right, but I have been contacted by vaping groups. My right hon. Friend the Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson) and I met some last week. They sent me a small comment, and I want to ask the Secretary of State a quick question about it, so that we move forward with consistency to try to achieve something.

Those groups referred to the impact assessment report by the Department of Health and Social Care, and said that it fails to consider potentially detrimental effects of restricting vape users and smokers looking to switch. I think we all try to be helpful and constructive in our comments in this Chamber, so being constructive, they requested a vape retailer and distributor licensing scheme in the Bill. The industry has developed a comprehensive framework for such a scheme, which is designed to deal effectively once and for all with underage and illicit vape sales—a situation that could get worse. Does the Secretary of State intend to develop a vape retailer and distributor licensing scheme?

[Victoria Atkins]

I am extremely grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s support. We understand the level of lobbying that has been undertaken by both the vaping industry and the tobacco industry. We know that the vaping industry has pushed that as one of its lines. In the current vapes market, when walking into a local shop or a newsagent the vape products can be seen on sale next to the till, often next to the sweets—the part of the shop that children will be very attracted to, if my experiences are anything to go by. The industry markets them in very cynical ways. We are saying that it is already unlawful to sell vapes to under-18s, but we want to take the powers in this legislation to consult on flavours, design and so on, to ensure that vapes are sold as they are intended—to help adult smokers to quit, because no child should ever vape.

Cass Review

Debate between Victoria Atkins and Jim Shannon

Monday 15th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I do not want to say that the Secretary of State could ever be wrong, but on her last judgment I have to say that the show is never over until the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) has spoken.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

You are most kind, Madam Deputy Speaker. I know that I have now caught the Secretary of State’s eye.

May I thank the Secretary of State for her fortitude and determination, and Dr Cass for all her endeavours? Both ladies—honourable ladies, I believe—have been incredibly impressive and capable. We should be taking on board Dr Cass’s report in Northern Ireland. Indeed, I will make it my business to ensure that the Minister in Northern Ireland takes this in, so I shall be sending him a copy of the report. What help and support is available for all those patients who have been in the Tavistock since its inception? Importantly, what steps can be taken by the Government to stop this malpractice and to stop the movement of the vulnerable—some have called this tantamount to abuse—into privately funded abuse? How quickly can that protection be put in place?

[Victoria Atkins]

Let me offer the hon. Gentleman my sincere apologies; I am out of practice and should have known that his would be the last question.

I genuinely look forward to working with my Northern Irish counterparts on this, as we have already worked together on other matters. The hon. Gentleman makes a point about private practices. That is one area that I am working on at pace. What we do not want is to have any idea forming that somehow people can get round the strict rules that the NHS is setting the system to get these drugs to young people and children. I promise to come back and update the House when I have more news on that, but the hon. Gentleman is right to identify that issue. It shows the complexity of the matter and the real need for a very clear, detailed and principled approach to help reform our NHS so that we make it faster, simpler and fairer.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Debate between Victoria Atkins and Jim Shannon

Committee of the whole House
Tuesday 18th April 2023 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

I acknowledge my right hon. Friend’s experience, not only at the Dispatch Box but, importantly, in the world of accountancy and business. I reassure him that the Treasury keeps all taxes under review. He is right to draw attention to clause 6, which maintains the small profits rate because, precisely as he says, we want to encourage small businesses that are in the first flourishes of profit and help them to build.

There are two measures that I hope will reassure my right hon. Friend. First, the small profits rate means that 70% of businesses will see no increase at all in their corporation tax charges. Because of the threshold that he describes, a further 20% will fall into that spectrum, so only 10% of businesses will face the full 25% rate. If they invest in their businesses and in plant and productivity, as we very much want and encourage them to, they will—depending on their returns—be eligible either for the full expensing capital allowance that the Chancellor announced alongside this measure at the spring Budget or for the annual investment allowance. This Budget was very much about encouraging growth and encouraging the small businesses on which my right hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse) so rightly focuses, but we are doing so as part of a responsible fiscal approach and making sure that those with the broadest shoulders bear the greatest burden of tax.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for outlining the provisions on corporation tax. Obviously corporation tax will be the same everywhere, but in the light of the peculiar circumstances in Northern Ireland—the region is much more under pressure when it comes to jobs—can she reassure me and my constituents back home that small businesses in Northern Ireland will feel the benefits of what she is putting forward?

Sunscreen Products: VAT

Debate between Victoria Atkins and Jim Shannon

Thursday 9th February 2023 Westminster Hall

[Victoria Atkins]

That is a very fair challenge. I keep talking about difficulties, but that is the reality of the decisions we have to make; while a lot of melanoma is caused by of exposure to the sun, even in this day and age, some melanoma will be due to sunbed use, which I know colleagues across the House will have great concerns about. Some melanoma will be from damage caused decades ago, when we were less aware of the risks of the sun, and some will have no link at all to sun damage. It will never be a straight swap.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for her response, and I want to follow on from what the hon. Member for Erewash (Maggie Throup) said. In my contribution I referred to 200,000 surgical operations and 16,000 new melanoma cases every year, and the scale of that results in a significant cost for the NHS. We are not criticising the Minister; she is doing what a Treasury Minister has to do. We are saying, very respectfully, that there is a cost to the NHS every year. That has to be part of the mathematics of the process.

This is a very long intervention, and I apologise for that. Given that Australia and the United States of America have cut VAT on sunscreen, has there been any discussion with the relevant bodies about what those countries achieved by doing so?

[Victoria Atkins]

I do not know if there have been any discussions. I will ask, because it may be that my predecessors had them. In terms of comparisons with Australia and the United States, we have to tread a little bit carefully. With the horrendous damage that has been done to the ozone, Australia has a very particular problem with exposure to the sun, and we have to remember the strength of the sun there. I note what the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire said about UVA and UVB being present in Scotland, but I do not think that anyone would suggest that Scotland has the same strength of sun exposure all year round as the sunnier parts of Australia.

High Income Child Benefit Charge

Debate between Victoria Atkins and Jim Shannon

Thursday 2nd February 2023 Westminster Hall

[Victoria Atkins]

I very much understand this point. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was involved at all in the scrutiny of the Bill that became the Domestic Abuse Act 2021, which I had the privilege of taking through the House a year or two ago. Interestingly, one of the challenges that his SNP colleagues put to me, in the context of universal credit, was that universal credit is paid per household. They made the point that, particularly for victims of domestic abuse, they would prefer it to be paid to the individual. The reason why I raise that is that we have a long-standing tradition—since, I am told, the 1990s—of individual taxation. I, as a feminist, am entirely comfortable with being—indeed, demand the right to be—taxed on my income, rather than that of my husband. The system of independent taxation being what it is, every individual, including each partner in a couple, is treated equally and independently within the income tax system. That means that the child benefit charge, sitting as it does within the income tax system, must adhere to those principles; that is the idea behind it. I acknowledge the tensions that the hon. Members for Dunfermline and West Fife and for Linlithgow and East Falkirk have raised regarding those families where people fall just below the threshold, but Governments of all colours must do that kind of balancing when setting thresholds and rates of taxation, and so on. That is why the charge is set as it is.

[Jim Shannon]

I am a very simple person, and I am trying to work this out—the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Douglas Chapman) referred to this example as well. If two people earn £49,000 a year, it is okay for them to have the benefit, but if one person earns £52,000 a year and their partner earns £10,000, that makes them liable for extra tax. Surely, the Government should look at that again—a collective income of £98,000 against a collective income of £62,000.

Business Rates and Levelling Up

Debate between Victoria Atkins and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 13th December 2022 Westminster Hall

[Victoria Atkins]

Goodness me, I would not pretend to have an intimate knowledge of the economics of Torbay. My hon. Friend knows his constituency extremely well, but the realistic fact is that businesses in his high street have to pay taxes of some sort. That is why we have tried to mould the business rate support package to help the businesses that need it the most, which we recognise are those in the retail, hospitality and leisure industry. I will come on to that particular support, which is a very generous package that I hope will be of great benefit to businesses in his constituency.

We have a duty to ensure that the business rates system is fair and responsive, while raising sufficient revenue to support the public services that I have already talked about. Since 2017, when the Government doubled the 100% small business rate relief rateable value threshold from £6,000 to £12,000, a third of properties in England have paid no business rates whatever. In my own constituency, I know of many properties in my market towns that pay no business rates precisely because of that protection and they are, I hope, thriving as best they can as a result.

The Government provided £16 billion in business rates relief for the retail, hospitality and leisure sectors during the pandemic because it was such a difficult time for them when the economy was essentially closed down. That was an unprecedented level of support for the high street, on which so many communities depend. From my own constituency, I know how vital that support was in keeping businesses’ heads above water during the lockdowns. The Government also provided a £1.5 billion covid additional relief fund for businesses that were affected by the pandemic but which were not eligible for other reliefs. Local authorities, due to their knowledge of their local areas, were responsible for designing and establishing those schemes. Progress has been in line with our expectations, and final distribution data will be published on gov.uk shortly.

As the Chancellor stated in the autumn statement last month, it is an important principle that revaluations should reflect market values. Hon. Members have emphasised that point during the debate. The 2023 revaluation will therefore go ahead. From April 2023, all rateable values will be updated for all non-domestic properties, with evidence from April 2021. This will mean initial bills will reflect changes in market conditions since 2015, and will ensure a fairer distribution of the tax burden between online and physical retail.

The hon. Member for Strangford asked me why the Government have not introduced an online sales tax. He will know that we launched a consultation on the issue earlier this year. We received many responses, which will shortly be published, but it is fair to say that there was not unanimity. Indeed, there was not even agreement—I would not put it as highly as that—as to what such a tax should look like, because many of even the smallest businesses on the high streets of our constituencies now have some form of online presence. It may not be the main part of their business—that may be the shop—but, understandably and laudably in the 21st century, they are trying to diversify by having an online business.

Nobody could quite see how we could differentiate between the enormous multinationals that we are all keen to ensure pay taxes and those microbusinesses that my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney described so well. That is why in the autumn statement the Chancellor decided against an online sales tax, with the important caveat that the changes we are making to business rates, including with the revaluations, will mean that the distribution warehouses, which supply the multinationals that we are all keen to ensure pay their proper taxes, will see significant rises in their bills while we also protect the shops and microbusinesses to which he referred.

[Jim Shannon]

That is a very helpful response, as always; I expected nothing less. I will take the Minister’s point of view out of Hansard and give it to some microbusinesses in my constituency that have asked me these questions. I understand there is a wish for this revaluation to happen, and I understand the difficulties and complexities the Government face to get it over the line. If I could come back to the Minister directly with some thoughts, maybe we could see if we could review it in a positive way.

[Victoria Atkins]

Of course. I am always delighted to hear from the hon. Gentleman. He will appreciate that there are many other factors; for example, click and collect was a stumbling block for many in the consultation. I look forward to his future correspondence.

The support package that we have introduced means that the revaluation will go some way to addressing the imbalance between online and offline retailers. On average, large distribution warehouses will see an increase in bills of about 27%, and bricks and mortar retailers will see decreases of about 20%. We recognise that business rates payers may feel uncertain about the upcoming revaluation, given other pressures the country is facing that are driven by global challenges.

Rising prices around the world, made worse by Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine, have hit businesses hard. In the autumn statement we announced the steps that we will take next year to provide support through these difficult times. We will deliver a business rates support package worth £13.6 billion over the next five years. That will protect businesses from facing large bill increases because of high inflation and rateable value increases following the revaluation.

My hon. Friend the Member for Waveney urged the Treasury to cut the UBR to the 1990 level of 35p, showing the trade-offs that the Government must make. Doing so would cost £9 billion a year, which would be a significant potential loss to the public revenue. We have thus taken the steps we have through the support package to protect ratepayers from high inflation, and we are instead freezing the tax rate for three consecutive years at a cost of £14.5 billion.

My hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) described the vibrant hospitality sector in his constituency. We are extending and increasing the retail, hospitality and leisure relief scheme from 50% to 75%, up to a cash cap of £110,000 per business. Pubs and the holiday parks he referenced are included.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Victoria Atkins and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 5th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising this matter. I have in fact met the Prison Officers Association; indeed, I was delighted to attend its conference in Eastbourne a couple of months ago. I note in passing that sadly the Opposition were not able to accept the union’s kind invitation to attend that same conference. In terms of pensions, I am determined to have a good employment offer for all our officers. I will continue to meet the POA union and the other unions that work in our prison estate. I emphasise both to officers and to staff that we want to ensure that the hard work they put in to our prison service is reflected in the coming months in the offer we put to our staff.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

5. What steps his Department is taking to support victims of rape and sexual abuse.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Victoria Atkins)]

The Government are committed to supporting victims of rape and sexual violence. We have seen rape convictions increase by two thirds since 2020, but we are committed to doing much more and going further. Last year the Government announced our ambitious end-to-end rape review action plan, which includes quadrupling the funding for victim support from £41 million in 2009-10 to £192 million by 2024-25. More than half of all Crown courts are equipped to use pre-recorded cross-examination and re-examination for vulnerable witnesses, to make the experience of giving evidence to the courts less daunting. There is much more happening, and I know the hon. Gentleman takes a close interest in these matters.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister, who clearly has a very clear strategy to move forward. However, recent statistics from the charity Rape Crisis state that in 2021 only one in 100 victims of rape felt they could report it to the police, with some feeling completely unable to do so due to intense fear and angst about reprisals from the perpetrator. What steps will she take to ensure that victims feel that they can come forward and place their trust in the authorities, to find the closure they so very much want?

[Victoria Atkins]

The hon. Gentleman is right to identify the concerns that victims have from the very first moment of reaching out for support from the police in reporting these offences. As I say, we have conducted a forensic end-to-end review of the criminal justice system. Part of that includes ensuring that the police conduct so-called suspect-focused investigations whereby, rather than looking at the witness’s credibility, they focus on the suspect’s behaviour. We will be rolling this out nationally over the coming year, and I very much hope and expect that we will begin to see some real results from that.

Rape: Criminal Prosecutions

Debate between Victoria Atkins and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 28th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

I thank my hon. Friend for highlighting that. I genuinely encourage every Member to look at the figures and have those conversations with their local police and CPS to understand what is happening in their local areas. I welcome this scrutiny; it is absolutely the right way to drive change. I thank him for his particular focus on his local area.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

First, I thank the Secretary of State for her answers and her clear intention to address the rape criminal prosecution backlog—that is well done. What additional support can be offered to victims and their families, who can be intimidated by the perpetrator and their family connections? Does she agree that a case will often rely on a victim’s ability to testify well, and that that pressure can deliver opposite results and victims who feel that they are unable to cope or to challenge?

[Victoria Atkins]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for my temporary promotion.

The best way this can be dealt with is through the section 28 roll-out. For those who are unfamiliar with it, let me say that this is the provision whereby victims of serious sexual violence and modern slavery offences can pre-record their evidence—for examination in chief, cross-examination and re-examination—perhaps months ahead of when the case will be tried in the Crown court in front of a jury. That means, first, that the victim is not giving evidence in a live trial, which can bring its own pressures, and also that they give their evidence much sooner in the process, thus helping with our victim attrition rates. We are examining this very carefully and rolling it out as quickly as we can, but I very much hope that by the end of this Parliament we will really begin to see some dividends from it.

Prisons Strategy

Debate between Victoria Atkins and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 7th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

Very much so. We want to encourage earned autonomy and we want the best practices to be shared across the prison estate. Last week I was delighted to meet, with the Deputy Prime Minister, a number of prison governors who told us their experiences of what was working in their prisons and shared information and ideas. That is the way forward for prisons: we must understand, of course, that as they serve particular communities—particular groups of offenders—they have the expertise and knowledge as to what will work within their establishments.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for her statement. Whether prisons are new or old, what happens inside them is the critical issue, so will she outline what steps are in place to prevent contraband such as cigarettes, drugs, mobiles and other items, which are notoriously used as leverage in prisons?

[Victoria Atkins]

Indeed they are. Of course, not only are those items ways for organised crime gangs to continue control within the prison walls, but people can use the mobile phones to communicate beyond the prison walls. That is incredibly destabilising not just for prison staff but, importantly, for those offenders who are living by the rules and trying their best and who want to be released as soon as possible. We have been working for some time now on our £100 million security package, which includes not only X-ray body scanners but enhanced gate-security measures to cover other ways in which prisoners can get items into prisons, and that is critical. That will be central to our work going forward.

Afghan Citizens Resettlement Scheme

Debate between Victoria Atkins and Jim Shannon

Monday 25th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

I would be very happy to discuss the matter with the hon. Gentleman. May I put on record my thanks to Welsh councils and the Welsh Government for the work that they are doing, and have done for many years?

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for all she does. In Northern Ireland, it will be the Northern Ireland Assembly that looks after the allocation of Afghan refugees. At the very beginning of the process, the managing directors of two companies in my constituency, Willowbrook Foods and Mash Direct, each offered 20 places in their workforce to Afghanis; they also offered housing and accommodation. Minister, can I ask: after all this time, what is happening?

[Jim Shannon]

Can the hon. Lady respond to me and my constituents, who wish to offer those people not only places in the two factories, but accommodation? The offer is there today.

[Victoria Atkins]

I am delighted to hear that from the hon. Gentleman. This is one of the things I am working on at the moment. There are so many things our Afghan friends can offer us, in terms of employment opportunities and working in our local communities. I am really pleased to hear what he says. There will be more to announce on the principle in due course, but I am very happy to discuss the matter with him in more detail to see what can be done with the companies that he mentions.

Strategy for Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls

Debate between Victoria Atkins and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 21st July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

I thank my hon. Friend, who has been a strong campaigner for some time on modern slavery and on the care of victims of modern slavery. On the care of children, the national referral mechanism applies to adults, but children go into children’s services because of the statutory requirements under the Children Act 1989. I am, however, interested to hear how he believes support could be improved. The Government have, as he may know, set out plans to refresh the modern slavery strategy in the coming months and I would be pleased to meet him to understand where he believes that could be improved.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for her encouraging statement. No one can doubt her clear personal commitment; I appreciate that very much. I welcome this move to take every available step to tackle violence against women and girls; it is not before time. The new strategy involves new legislation to deal with stalking, forced marriage and female genital mutilation, and yet, as the shadow Minister said, more work needs to be done on sexual assault and rape. Recent Home Office statistics show that 83% of sexual assaults go unreported. What additional work will be done to encourage victims to come forward about their assaults? What will be done—I say this respectfully—to fix the lack of trust there is between victims of violence and the policing system?

[Victoria Atkins]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for dealing with some important points in a sensitive way. He will know that, alongside the violence against women and girls strategy, only a matter of weeks ago we published the rape review, which is focused on the end-to-end results of the criminal justice system from the moment at which the police record a crime through to a conviction or the other ways in which a case can be finalised. There is a real action plan in that rape review dealing specifically with rape prosecutions, and that forms part of our work to tackle this.

On building trust, a measure in the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill sets out and clarifies the law on the extraction of data from mobile phones. This will not apply for every victim of sexual offences, but for many victims handing over their phone and losing it for months at a time has a real impact on their willingness to continue with the investigation, if indeed they volunteer at all. Through the Bill, we will be able to clarify the law and ensure that victims are treated properly in that regard. Of course, the rape helpline that we have announced in the strategy will also go a long way to helping victims have the immediate support they need, as and when they need it.

Domestic Abuse and Hidden Harms during Lockdown

Debate between Victoria Atkins and Jim Shannon

Thursday 14th January 2021 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

I thank my hon. Friend, who was a sterling performer in the Bill Committee. We have taken a national, regional and local approach to community-based services and we have rolled out funding for that with the help of police and crime commissioners to commissioned and non-commissioned services. Of course, the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government has been rolling out money to refuges. We in the Home Office have focused on the national and regional parts of the funding, including support to bolster the helplines, which so many people rely on when seeking help.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for her statement. There were 557 domestic abuse calls in the last week of March last year and 8,302 from April to June. Will she confirm that the support and help that have been announced today will also be implemented in Northern Ireland and that discussion has taken place with the Minister in charge in the Northern Ireland Assembly to ensure that that is the case?

[Victoria Atkins]

I am delighted to say that my opposite number in the Northern Ireland Executive is working hard and has confirmed her intention to bring in similar legislation in Northern Ireland. That is a vital part of our jigsaw in ratifying the Istanbul convention, so we wish her and the Assembly well in their scrutiny of the forthcoming legislation.

Domestic Abuse Bill

Debate between Victoria Atkins and Jim Shannon

Report stage & 3rd reading & Report stage: House of Commons
Monday 6th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I, of course, pay attention to the fact that he has had a long-standing campaign on this matter. I have looked carefully at his proposals, and the Government have two chief concerns. The first is that any clinical need of the individual must, of course, be a matter for doctors. I would be very worried about making a blanket application for anyone who is a victim of domestic abuse, not least because we know that, as clause 1 sets out, domestic abuse can take many forms and is not just restricted to physical violence. So I believe that the correct way to deal with the very important point he raises is to enable clinicians to make that judgment. The second point relates to screening. I understand that the UK screening authority would have to consider whether such a universal programme should be introduced. I believe that it has looked at this relatively recently and has concluded that the evidence is not there. If I may, I will return to the text of my speech now. I will hear his arguments develop during the course of this afternoon and comment further if need be.

On the subject of justice, one of the most chilling and anguished developments in recent times has been the increased use of the so-called rough sex defence. This is the subject of the last of the Government’s new clauses on Report, new clause 20. Before I develop the argument for the new clause, I would like to pay particular tribute to the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman) and my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier), who have been unrelenting in their work to secure justice for victims about whom the most difficult and violent claims can be made by defendants in the course of a criminal trial. They have been absolutely committed in their campaign to clarify the law. Indeed, I seem to remember that my hon. Friend raised this issue in the first Second Reading debate in October, which reminds us all of the journey that this Bill has had. They have called on the Government to codify the law in relation to the use of violence in consensual sadomasochistic sexual acts and the so-called rough sex defence. I am incredibly grateful to them for their continued and constructive engagement on this important and sensitive issue. I also note the support that Members across the House have given to these provisions, and I thank everyone for their work on this.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Minister is setting the scene very clearly regarding what is important and what we wish to see happening, and I congratulate her on that. The increase of this type of activity by some 11.6% on worldwide internet traffic has concerned me. This is not just about getting at people individually; it is also about getting at the people who are the drivers who make it happen. What has been done to ensure that those who buy into that system—some might do so inadvertently, but they none the less find themselves in a difficult situation—and who make it available and make it happen can be caught?

[Victoria Atkins]

If I have understood the hon. Gentleman correctly, he is not just addressing the use of this so-called defence in our courts but reflecting on the wider impact of pornography, particularly internet pornography, on violence towards women and girls in particular. I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) will be raising this in her speech and if I may I will respond to her in that part of the debate, but I very much take on board his point.

The hon. Gentleman will know that part of the problem that has emerged in the last 15 to 20 years is that, whereas in the old days cases were reported freely in the newspapers and so on, such cases are now also reported on the internet. In that regard, I must pay particular tribute to the family of Natalie Connolly, who have suffered in more ways than anyone can really contemplate. I am pleased—and I hope they are satisfied—with the developments that have resulted from the hard work of the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham and my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest. I hope that Natalie’s family are satisfied with what we have reached in this Bill.

We have been clear that there is no such defence to serious harm that results from rough sex, but there is a perception that such a defence exists and that it is being used by men—it is mostly men in these types of cases—to avoid convictions for serious offences or to receive a reduction in any sentence when they are convicted. As my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor indicated on Second Reading, this area of law is extremely complex. It is therefore important that anything that is placed in the Bill does not have unintended consequences. In acting with the best of intentions, we do not want to inadvertently create loopholes or uncertainties in the law that can then be exploited by those who perpetrate such crimes.

If I may, I would just like to take a moment to thank my friend the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Alex Chalk). As the co-Minister on the Bill, he has brought all his legal expertise to the consideration of how we can address the mischief and the upset, which we all want to address, in a way that does not have unintended consequences.