Lord Faulkner of Worcester
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will continue to support the metal theft task force.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach) (Con)
My Lords, no one doubts the success of the metal theft task force. The Government have provided funding from January 2012 to 31 March 2014. With a new licensing regime in place since October, we will take a view nearer the time as to how to take forward our efforts to tackle metal theft in the future.
Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister is right to say that the metal theft task force has been successful. The British Transport Police, in particular, deserves a lot of credit for the work that it has done. This has resulted in a 44% reduction in metal theft-related crime in 2012-13 and, according to ACPO, has saved the national infrastructure £339 million, an incredibly good rate of return on the £5.5 million that the task force has cost so far. Does the Minister agree that, with the introduction of cashless transactions, which your Lordships added to the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill, and the passage of the Scrap Metal Dealers Act 2013, we are at last turning the tide against this awful crime? Would it not be extraordinarily short sighted to cut off the funding of the metal theft task force at the end of March and should we not be building on that success and not jeopardising it?
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
As I said, there is no doubt that the task force has been very successful and, together with the legislative change which this House assisted in bringing in, has made a great difference in the battle against metal theft. A judgment needs to be taken and the Government will consider this. The noble Lord might be interested to know that we received a letter on Tuesday from Paul Crowther, who is the ACPO leader on this matter.
Lord Greaves (LD)
My Lord, I associate myself very much with the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner of Worcester, but the Scrap Metal Dealers Act to which he referred contained one major defect. Local authorities which license scrap metal dealing are not able to do it through their non-executive licensing functions but have to do it through their executive or cabinet, which is causing difficulties and problems. When will this be remedied?
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
I had not been aware that that was presenting a particular problem and I should be grateful if the noble Lord could advise me further on it. We do not want to create difficulties in the implementation of any legislation. The measures taken have been extremely effective in reducing metal theft and I am sure that the House will welcome that.
The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds
My Lords, the metal theft task force has been of inestimable value in checking the epidemic of lead theft from churches. Stripping of lead from church roofs has caused extensive rain damage to historic interiors. Will the Minister consult English Heritage, the Churches Conservation Trust and the cathedrals and church buildings division of the Archbishops’ Council as to how the destruction of our heritage can be combated and the work of the task force maintained?
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
I am very pleased to say that one of the effects of the task force and the legislation has been to add greater protection to our historic buildings. I have, myself, been on the roof of Northampton town hall—I did not jump; I climbed down—to see how encoding of the lead on the roof protects that metal. I think the right reverend Prelate will admit that ecclesiastical insurers are now looking at the premiums they have to charge as theft from churches has been greatly reduced. I am pleased to say that a gang of thieves in my own diocese of Lincoln was sentenced very heavily for the damage it had done.
Baroness Whitaker (Lab)
Is the Minister aware that there are many reputable scrap metal dealers for whom the licensing system is so onerous as to be a restraint of trade? I am referring to a number of Gypsy and Traveller firms which make their living in this way. They have not found it easy to get licences and there is little sympathy in the town hall largely because of prejudice. How can the system be made more user-friendly?
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
We want to see the trade legitimised in every way and the licensing process is part and parcel of it. I am aware of the noble Baroness’s interest in the welfare of the Gypsy and Traveller community. We are talking to it about ways in which we can make sure that it is properly integrated into the legal framework we have created.
Lord Laming (CB)
My Lords, as thieves stripped the signalling wire overnight recently on the line that I use, which meant that there were no trains for the whole of the following day, which caused immense inconvenience to everybody, particularly me, could the Minister maintain the momentum of this piece of work? It has done a great deal of good, but there is clearly more to be done.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
We have not eliminated metal theft and, indeed, the infrastructure damage involved in metal theft led to the British Transport Police being instrumental in meeting us and setting up the task force. The damage was considerable and it was not just the theft of the metal but the on-costs, as the noble Lord said.
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, speaking as a vice-president of the National Churches Trust and the Lincolnshire Churches Trust, I must say how much we appreciate what my noble friend has done in this regard. However, we are all a little apprehensive about 31 March. It is crucial that we do not lose the momentum that has been sustained over the past year. I should be grateful if my noble friend could give us some reassurance on that.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
I have given the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, the assurance that we will consider it, and I think I can go no further than that.
Lord Wills (Lab)
My Lords, everyone will welcome the recent decline in this dangerous theft, which does such damage to local businesses and communities. The Minister will be aware that this crime is driven primarily by world commodity prices and all experience shows that thieves respond very quickly to changes in those commodity prices. Given the recent decline in world commodity prices, can the Minister give any assessment of how far this recent decline is due to that and how far it is due to the work of the metal theft task force?
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
I cannot really comment on the noble Lord’s analysis of market conditions in the capitalist market that may underline this matter. The truth is that we were all aware that a lot of illegitimate traffic was going on throughout the supply line of this industry. The British Metals Recycling Association wanted to be a party to making this a proper legitimate framework for a proper industry. We have that framework now and I am sure that noble Lords will support all that is being done to ensure that that is what happens.