The Minister for the Armed Forces (Al Carns)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered Remembrance and the contribution of the armed forces.
On Sunday, His Majesty the King led the nation in commemorating generations of men and women who served, fought and, in many cases, did not return home. About 10,000 veterans gathered at the Cenotaph on Whitehall to observe the traditional two-minute silence and take part in the Royal British Legion’s Remembrance Sunday march-past. As a veteran myself, I was immensely proud to march as part of the Royal Marines Association. At memorials in towns, villages and cities right across the UK, civilians and members of the armed forces came together to pay their respects to those who have made the ultimate sacrifice in all wars.
We owe everything to those heroes who laid down their lives to defend our shores, protect our interests and safeguard our way of life. The peace and the freedom we enjoy today are their precious legacy, and it is a reminder that freedom is not free. Remembrance Day is the most important opportunity we have as a nation to come together and honour them. Remembrance for me, and, I think, for many other veterans around the country, is about remembering the friends and the brothers in arms we have lost—the specific moment when life was taken away; the gunfire, the explosion, the screaming, the chaos, the mud and the dust. It is those heightened senses at the time of a traumatic event that are imprinted upon the memory. Those memories are as vivid as the birth of a first child, a birthday or any other impactful occasion, but they have a very different meaning. Remembrance is about just that: it is the one day of the year when it is safe to remember, when memories surface and when we pay collective tribute to those who are serving and who have served.
Remembrance Day is also a very important time for this House, which has always had a special affinity with our armed forces and veterans. Given my former role, it is a privilege for me to lead today’s debate. Throughout the last year, it has been an honour to visit over 60 veterans’ organisations and to meet many outstanding and selfless people. From the veterans community hub in Lanarkshire to the Helping Homeless Veterans UK hub in Bournemouth, and across all the great nations of the United Kingdom, those individuals dedicate their time to our armed forces community.
Catherine Atkinson (Derby North) (Lab)
Support for our veterans is essential. I am proud that the Royal British Legion is growing in Derby. Will the Minister join me in wishing good luck to those who have set up a new branch in Mackworth? Does he agree that this Government’s veterans strategy, including the £13.8 million to address homelessness, shows that we are marching in step with those who campaign for veterans?
Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)
On that point, will the Minister give way?
Al Carns
Let me finish my point, and then my hon. Friend can jump in.
I put on record my personal thanks to the Royal British Legion for its work on the poppy appeal this year, and every year. I am sure that hon. Members across the House echo that appreciation and I look forward to hearing their contributions to the debate.
2025 has been a busy year for military anniversaries, particularly those associated with the final year of the second world war. In April, we marked 80 years since British troops swept across northern Europe and liberated Bergen-Belsen concentration camp. We remember the horrors and atrocities that those soldiers witnessed at first hand, and the incredible work that they carried out afterwards, burying the dead, containing the spread of disease and caring for the survivors. Within a matter of weeks, allied forces would be in Berlin, Hitler would be dead and communities across Britain would take to the streets to celebrate victory in Europe. On 8 May this year, we took to the streets again to celebrate VE Day’s 80th anniversary and to pay tribute to all those who fought for democracy over tyranny, liberty over oppression and human dignity over barbarism.
However, for some, VE Day did not mean that the nightmare of the second world war was over. British and Commonwealth troops in the far east, who had suffered some of the most gruelling and hostile environments of the entire conflict, still faced three months of fighting. The story of their war is one of almost superhuman strength and resilience. In August, we were able to remember their extraordinary contribution when we marked the 80th anniversary of Victory over Japan Day—the day that finally brought the most catastrophic war in human history to an end.
In September, we marked 85 years since the battle of Britain, when our aviators took on the might of the Luftwaffe, in a contest that determined not only control of our skies, but the fate of our entire nation. At a time of supreme enemy confidence, Britain proved to the world for the first time that Hitler and his forces could be defeated.
After such an important year of commemorations, today, Remembrance Day 2025, is a moment of profound national reflection and gratitude as we remember all those who served and all those who have fallen. We remember the conflicts gone by. On the 107th anniversary of the 1918 armistice, we remember those who fought in the great war. We also remember those who served in the Korean war, which began 75 years ago, as well as those who fought in Northern Ireland, the Falklands, Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere across the globe. We remember the Commonwealth troops who made a huge contribution to both world wars and other conflicts, and those who serve today and continue to uphold the values of courage, duty, professionalism and compassion that have long distinguished British armed forces.
Just as our forefathers fought for democracy, freedom and the right to self-determination, so do our Ukrainian allies in the east. Let us remember the courageous heroism that Ukraine and Ukrainians are delivering today. Pitched in a battle of national survival, their war is no less bloody than the second world war. When we think about that conflict, it is worth recognising that the Russians have taken more casualties in that conflict than the Americans took in the entire second world war. That gives a statistical feel for the pain and suffering of that conflict caused by Putin’s war of aggression. As we remember, we pay homage to all those fighting for the same values and ethics that we hold dear.
I thank the many thousands of people from civilian and military backgrounds who have worked so hard to organise what have been fantastic commemorations. Defence Ministers and shadow Defence spokespeople have travelled the length and breadth of the UK to attend the Royal Irish Regiment’s annual remembrance service in Belfast, the field of remembrance in Cardiff, the Scottish national Remembrance Sunday event, the “Remembering Afghanistan” events at the National Memorial Arboretum, the War Widows Association annual service at the Cenotaph and many others. Those are just a tiny fraction of the many events, up and down the country, that have been made possible by the tireless work of our armed forces and thousands of people in local communities. The last survey undertaken in 2018 showed that 98,115 members of the Army alone attended Remembrance Day parades at over 620 different events, and there were similar numbers, probably more, this year. Events are also being held worldwide, from Riga, where UK officials joined commemorations at the Jelgava Commonwealth war graves site, to Senegal, where colleagues held an act of remembrance at the Bel-Air cemetery in Dakar.
As we discuss the role that our armed forces play in remembrance today, we must consider the remarkable work that serving personnel perform all year round in educating young people about the history of defence, deterrence and warfare; promoting awareness and raising funds through charities, including through the Royal British Legion’s incredible poppy appeal; and working with the Commonwealth War Graves Commission to maintain military graves to the highest possible standard all around the world. Today we thank them for their outstanding contribution.
Adam Jogee
I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. In the interests of peace and togetherness, I will not take it personally that he chose to take an intervention earlier from my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson), whose constituency is in the east midlands, rather than from me, whose constituency is in the west midlands, but being from the west midlands he should know better. I thank him for mentioning young people. Will he join me in thanking all the young people I was with this morning at the cenotaph in Newcastle-under-Lyme, who came from local schools with their homemade poppies and wreaths? Our future commitment to democracy and peace lies in their hands, and as adults we have an important responsibility to ensure that they are a part of bringing our country together.
Al Carns
I thank my hon. Friend for his poignant contribution, and I thank those in Newcastle-under-Lyme for ensuring that awareness about the sacrifice is spread not just across the adult population, but across the youth of today. I always say that navies, armies and air forces do not win wars, but industries, economies and societies do, so making sure that society never forgets the past is critical.
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)
May I say that there is no more appropriate Member of the House to be introducing this debate than the hon. and gallant Gentleman with his distinguished record? I think I represent more generals than any other right hon. or hon. Member of the House. The Minister will have seen that nine four-star officers wrote to The Times to raise their concerns about the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill and the legal activism that it is likely to encourage, which
“risk weakening the moral foundations and operational effectiveness of the forces on which this nation depends.”
While we all honour our brave servicemen and servicewomen today rhetorically, does the Minister agree that we need to follow that through with real action, to ensure that they are not disadvantaged today and into the future?
Al Carns
The right hon. Member makes an interesting point. I want to be clear and concise: of all days, today is a day of remembrance and is not about political point scoring. There is a debate scheduled on Thursday when we can discuss the issue in detail. I would very much welcome a discussion with the individuals who sent the letter, as would the Defence Secretary and others, to talk through the issues, to provide balance to the argument, to ensure that we protect our country and our armed forces from lawfare, and to ensure that they are represented and their voices heard.
Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)
I want to return to the point about commemoration. Having served before, I remember that when I got elected back in 1992, we were not allowed to wear uniforms in public because of the IRA threat at the time, and bit by bit commemorations were no longer attended. I remember my first commemoration in Chingford; we were lucky if 100 people turned out. May I say that that has been reversed? One good example is that on Sunday at the memorial in Chingford, nearly 2,000 people turned up to commemorate those who have fallen and those who went before. Is that not a very good example of how the next generation sometimes understands commemoration better than my generation did?
Al Carns
What a welcome intervention. I was stood with veterans during the Cenotaph march-past; it always astounds me that we stand there with 10,000 people, and as the guns fire, there is complete silence in one of the busiest capitals in the world. It is a sombre but hugely humble experience. It is an absolute pleasure to see and hear all the amazing stories of almost every constituency around this great nation, standing together united to celebrate those individuals who served or are serving, their families and the bereaved.
While we often focus on the individuals who have been lost, we must remember those who have been left behind—the mothers, the fathers, the brothers, the sisters, the partners, the wives and the husbands who, after one of those traumatic events, all need to adapt to a new way of life. We need to remember them all and acknowledge that while their loved ones perhaps paid the ultimate sacrifice, it is not just the individual who serves, but the whole family—and they often suffer in silence long after the event.
Jess Brown-Fuller (Chichester) (LD)
The Minister is right to acknowledge not just the veterans, but those who have loved them. Today my son had the privilege of reading at our local cenotaph the names of those who were killed in world war two as well as the name of my best friend, who was a Royal Marine and died in 2012 in Afghanistan. It was an incredibly proud moment for me that my son got to read his name and remember the sacrifice that those who have loved and lost make for us to live our lives, so I thank the Minister for acknowledging those who have loved and lost.
Al Carns
I thank the hon. Lady for such a moving contribution. May I say, in jest, that she has a very good choice of best friends? I know that her best friend’s memory will live long into the future, and it is a delight to hear that her son took part in that commemoration.
Importantly, we must look after bereaved children. If you do not mind, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am delighted to highlight that, following our little jaunt up Everest earlier this year, we managed to raise just under £500,000 for veterans charities and the specific needs of bereaved children. That will go to help loved ones across a plethora of different charities. We show our eternal gratitude for those families who have cared for members of our armed forces after returning from service—those who often bear physical and mental scars from the conflicts they have experienced.
The reason that this year’s world war two commemorations were especially poignant is that they were likely the last major events to feature veterans from the war in any great numbers. Even the youngest of those veterans who graced the ceremonies in London are now well into their 10th decade. One of them is Mervyn Kersh, who is 100 years old and took part in the D-day landings, then went on to Belsen a few weeks after it was liberated; he laid a wreath at the Cenotaph. The whole House can be proud that he will be watching Prime Minister’s questions tomorrow from the Gallery—what an honour it will be to welcome him here.
The living connection that Mervyn and his comrades provide to the war is a priceless asset, particularly at a time when the bloodiest European conflict since the second world war continues to rage in Ukraine. They understand the cost of conflict, because they lived through it, but they also understand the privileges we inherited after the war; 80 years of peace, prosperity and freedom can never, ever be taken for granted. We must be prepared to defend them in an increasingly dangerous world, and today a new generation of servicemen and servicewomen is doing precisely that. They are heirs to the veterans who proudly paraded on 8 May, and they are the guardians of that cherished inheritance. Today we also pay tribute to our servicemen and servicewomen working around the world to deter aggression, to safeguard British interests and to stand shoulder to shoulder with our allies, showing that Putin will not divide us.
Members will note that throughout this speech there has not been one ounce of politics. That could be called political naivety, but I call it a deeply held respect for those who have served and continue to serve; I welcome the debate and conversation on Thursday. This week’s commemorations remind us once again of the unbreakable bonds linking our heroes from the past with the armed forces personnel of today and indeed with those who will serve in the future.
Mr Luke Charters (York Outer) (Lab)
Joshua Mullinger is an able cadet in the sea cadets in York, who played an integral role in the York service of remembrance, and Conservative councillor and Lord Mayor Martin Rowley is a veteran. Will the Minister join me in commemorating the work of those very remarkable individuals?
Al Carns
The cadets play such an important part, with the sea cadets right at the forefront. Seeing Joshua thriving in that environment is absolutely superb, and hearing of Martin Rowley excelling after being in service is hugely admirable—I thank him in particular for his service.
As we remember the generations who have sacrificed so much, their testimony lives on, inspiring us to be strong in the face of adversity. Being resilient during difficult times and standing up for values that we believe in—that is the way we will remember our military heroes best, and that is how we will ensure that their priceless legacy of peace and freedom will endure.
The Minister for Veterans and People (Louise Sandher-Jones)
Today we have honoured generations of servicemen and women who have put their lives on the line for their country. I am grateful to Members on both sides of the House who have spoken with such passion and feeling about a subject that I know they value so highly.
On Remembrance Sunday, millions of people come together—ordinary men and women standing in the silent autumn air bound by common values and shared grief, just as they did in November 1921 when the first poppy appeal was launched. Back then, 9 million poppies were sold. Today, over 40 million poppies are distributed each year. That unity is our strength. It is a unity that is reflected in this House today.
My hon. and gallant Friend the Minister for the Armed Forces began the debate with a powerful reminder of the 80-year legacy of freedom and prosperity inherited from that greatest of generations who battled the tyranny of Nazism in world war two. We have heard many heartfelt contributions from Members across the House, who stressed how fiercely proud they are of the people who serve in our military and across defence.
I was hugely honoured to represent Defence, alongside Scotland’s First Minister and the Secretary of State for Scotland, at the Stone of Remembrance on Sunday. As I stood there, I felt the same bond of allegiance shared with people across the whole of the UK who had gathered on the 11th hour that day. I thought of my constituency of North East Derbyshire, where every town and village—from Clay Cross to Dronfield and Killamarsh—has at its heart a war memorial with names carved in stone. I thought of my constituent, Corporal Liam Riley, who grew up in Killamarsh and lost his life fighting for our country in Afghanistan. I thought of the time I attended a memorial service when I was at school for Second Lieutenant Jo Dyer, a previous pupil, who was killed in Iraq alongside Corporal Kris O’Neill, Private Eleanor Dlugosz and Kingsman Adam James Smith.
I thought of my own time in uniform. I have attended many different remembrance services over the years. I can recall my first Remembrance Sunday in the Army on exercise in Wales—myself and my fellow young officer cadets pausing from a hectic schedule of platoon attacks to gather in an empty farmyard for a simple drumhead ceremony. Standing there shoulder to shoulder in the Welsh rain, belting out “Bread of Heaven”, I really felt a deeper connection not just to the men and women stood beside me but to all those who had gone before and all who would follow after. I also think of the remembrance event I attended while deployed to Afghanistan, gathered around the memorial in the British embassy in Kabul—that time in the bright sun—to pause and reflect with the sounds of the city all around us.
I will take a quick moment to reflect on the MOD teams who do such vital work to ensure that all those who have fallen in foreign fields and remain missing are traced and brought back home. I know that some colleagues have talked about that. That thread of service runs unbroken through a century of profound change. The young men and women who fought at the Somme could scarcely imagine the nature of conflict today with cyber-warfare, autonomous weapons and operations conducted at the speed of light, yet the fundamental commitment remains constant: to defend our nation and protect our freedoms.
At a time when threats to security are rising, it is incumbent on us all to consider the weight of responsibility on our military and to do what we can to share the burden, no matter how big or small. For example, our reserve and cadet forces perform a vital role connecting defence with wider society. I was particularly proud to see so many cadets doing such a fantastic job at the remembrance events that I attended. They were joined by reservists across the country, who are twice the citizen for giving up their free time to serve the nation in uniform. Indeed, I am hugely humbled in my job to meet such an extraordinary number of people and organisations who do work all year round to support our armed forces and veterans, such as the Royal British Legion and the 40,000 volunteers who sell poppies; the charities that raise critical funds and provide so much support to veterans in the armed forces community; and those who work with the Commonwealth War Graves Commission to maintain military graves to the highest of standards all around the world. We thank them all for their outstanding contribution.
I am also proud that yesterday—the day between Remembrance Sunday and Armistice Day—we announced our new veterans strategy, which is a milestone in our plans to reset the nation’s contract with the remarkable men and women who have served and ensure that all their service is properly honoured. We will help veterans after their military service is over and support them in key areas like health, housing, employment and justice.
Let me turn to the points raised in the debate. The right hon. and gallant Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) spoke movingly about the marked increase in the number of people attending ceremonies, which I have noticed and recognise. I also thank the hon. Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller) for speaking so movingly of her best friend, lost in Afghanistan. My hon. Friend the Member for York Outer (Mr Charters) spoke well about the cadet Joshua and the role he played, and the Lord Mayor, Councillor Martin Rowley.
The right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) spoke movingly about the broad spectrum of conflicts, many of the forgotten we have lost, and how we must ensure that we strengthen our armed forces to face the threats of today and tomorrow. My hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi) spoke movingly of the importance of the support we must give to our veterans regarding housing. Indeed, he also spoke of the harassment of some women in the armed forces, which I take very personally.
My hon. Friend the Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) raised an important point about representing the Welsh Guards who served on Sir Galahad. We can arrange for her to meet the Minister responsible. The right hon. and gallant Member for Goole and Pocklington (David Davis), and indeed the hon. Member for Spelthorne (Lincoln Jopp), referred to the letter by the nine four-star generals. My colleague had offered to meet those generals, and they declined. I reiterate that offer to meet the generals to offer a balanced point of view.
My hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (Michelle Scrogham) spoke movingly of her late grandfather and the vital work that her constituency does. I thank in particular the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Ben Obese-Jecty) for his moving speech. When he read out the names of those who had fallen in Afghanistan, it brought home the power of how they really do not grow old as we who are left grow old.
My hon. Friend the Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Torcuil Crichton) spoke movingly of the stories from his constituency and the importance of remembering all those who have fallen. The hon. Member for North Devon (Ian Roome) spoke well of his constituent Major Joe Martin, who does such valuable work to support the cadets.
My hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Alison Taylor) spoke powerfully about the importance of our war memorials and the Erskine charity in her constituency that offers employment support. Again, it was great to hear from my hon. Friend the Member for Stirling and Strathallan (Chris Kane) the powerful story of Margaret Fleming and her family, and of what she lost. I also thank the hon. Member for Angus and Perthshire Glens (Dave Doogan) for recognising the service of women and men in the wider war effort. That is something that we must always remember.
My hon. Friend the Member for Stevenage (Kevin Bonavia) spoke powerfully about the importance of historians and of remembering our local, as well as our national, history. The right hon. Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis) spoke about the war widows’ service. I have never felt more privileged in this job than when I was able to attend that service and stand alongside so many strong women. And who could forget Lennon and Ruby at the festival of remembrance, walking in memory of their father?
The hon. Member for Brigg and Immingham (Martin Vickers) spoke very movingly about the Grimsby Chums, and my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (David Williams) also spoke movingly about the stories of his constituents, particularly that of the unmarked grave. It was fantastic to hear about the heroic efforts of RAF Biggin Hill from the hon. Member for Bromley and Biggin Hill (Peter Fortune), and my hon. Friend the Member for Dunstable and Leighton Buzzard (Alex Mayer) spoke well about Q Central, which I am particularly interested in given my service history.
It was great to hear about the “Pedal to Ypres” fundraiser from the hon. Member for Melksham and Devizes (Brian Mathew). That is no small distance. I was also particularly proud to hear from my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead (Mr Bailey), a man of remarkable service. It was fantastic to hear him talk so movingly about the importance of black servicemen and women.
The hon. Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) is a proud voice, speaking about the proud history of service in her constituency. That proud history of service was emulated by my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Pam Cox), with a mere 2,000 years to recognise. The hon. and gallant Member for Epsom and Ewell (Helen Maguire) spoke powerfully about a number of issues. I will, of course, meet her to discuss them; I am sure she appreciates that I cannot go into them now.
My hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Leigh Ingham) spoke movingly about her family and Scotty’s Little Soldiers, which is a fantastic charity. The hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Manuela Perteghella) spoke well about the RAF photographic reconnaissance unit, whose courage is indeed immense. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket (Peter Prinsley) for the powerful accounts of the history of his family and for recognising the service of Jewish service personnel.
The hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Llinos Medi) spoke well about the importance of Welsh veterans and was a powerful advocate for the importance of supporting those veterans. I take her points on board. My hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Amanda Martin) spoke movingly about her family history. I know that she is proud of her serving son and a proud advocate for Portsmouth and the Royal Navy.
The hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Cameron Thomas) spoke movingly about what remembrance is about. As a veteran who has also washed up here, I appreciated his words. They were authentic and heartfelt. The hon. Member for Taunton and Wellington (Gideon Amos) again spoke movingly and I wish William Spiller a happy 100th birthday for December—by text.
My hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Anna Gelderd) spoke well of her constituency’s strong links to the armed forces and the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister) gave a powerful account of Robert Quigg, exemplifying the huge importance of selfless service. The hon. Member for East Wiltshire (Danny Kruger) spoke of his constituency’s huge military presence and the importance of defending veterans, and I note that we are specifically stopping cold calling of veterans. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) spoke well about making sure that the next generation is the best generation. I can wholeheartedly agree with that.
Lastly, I thank the shadow Minister for his heartfelt speech about the lasting impact of world war one. He is also right as a fellow veteran of Afghanistan. I find it quite difficult to speak about that conflict and its wider significance, and I know that it is important that we do.
Today, we have come together to say thank you to those who have served and to remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice. I thank all Members who are here today. They have upheld this House’s proud tradition of honouring the service and sacrifice of our armed forces on the anniversary of Armistice Day. We will always remember them.
Hon. Members
Hear, hear.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered Remembrance and the contribution of the armed forces.