Transport Committee

Wednesday 17th June 2026

(began 2 months, 1 week ago)

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None Portrait Speaker 2
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Thanks, chair. Um, and can I just actually start by saying thank you to you and the committee for all of the work that you have done, um, to support the many changes that we're making, um, to the transport system, particularly on the railways bill. Um, your recommendations were very helpful in that respect. Um, I think in terms of progress, we're making good progress on improving public transport, um, in investing in our roads and also in enabling the transition to cleaner and healthier journeys for people across the country.

Um, I'd highlight a few areas. If you look at the work that we've done on rail, we've frozen rail fares for the first time in 30 years. That was introduced in March of this year and runs until March of next year. Um, we're running more services. We're seeing passenger numbers still increasing on the railways. We're seeing fewer cancellations, and we're obviously making progress with a number of large infrastructure schemes, including things like the TransPennine route upgrade. And we set out plans for Northern Powerhouse Rail in January, which I think was long awaited.

And when it comes to the buses, I've been particularly pleased that we've been able to fund the rollout of more zero emission buses, maintaining the £3 bus fare cap, and have got plans to make bus buses more affordable for families this summer. Um, good that we have published the better connected strategy, which is the Integrated National Transport strategy as well. Um, but I'm really focused on the bread and butter issues that I know that people are concerned about. Um, making sure that we fix our broken roads, use the record £7.3 billion that we've given to local authorities as effectively and as efficiently as we can.

Um, we've launched a structures fund. We've also published the road safety strategy, which I think was much needed after a period of 12 years when there hadn't been an update. Um, and then good progress as well with things like record months for electric car sales, um, making sure that we're progressing the rollout of charging infrastructure for electric vehicles as well. Um, and then I was particularly pleased last week, um, to launch the third cycling and walking investment strategy with a real focus on how we can get more children walking and cycling to school.

On the more negative side, um, obviously the situation with HS2 is still very challenging. We've reset the programme. Um, we have uh, descoped the programme to reduce risk in it as well. Um so that we won't be running trains, uh, at 360km/h, it would be 320, which would still mean they go as fast as the Japanese bullet train. Um, on rail performance, I would say that whilst we are making progress across the country, um in some areas performance could be better when it comes to reliability.

And I'd want to see more progress on that. And on the issue of driving test wait times, it's still too high for people. And we need to get that down.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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Um, so I think what's different about me being before you today compared to six months ago is obviously the impact of the conflict in the Middle East and the, um, pressure. That has put on prices associated with fuel. Um, and if I wasn't focused on what that meant for drivers, for operators of public transport, both, um, buses, rail, but also the airlines, then I'm not sure I would be doing my job properly. And so that's a major focus because whilst there's been positive news in terms of a peace agreement, um, the impact of the disruption to um oil coming out of the Straits of Hormuz will have a very long economic tail.

So that's a big priority for me. Still, over the next six months. Um, but that shouldn't distract me from the day job. And I think the three main priorities that we've got around ensuring that the transport system supports economic growth, um, and enhances people's, uh, everyday. Experience of the place where they live is really important. Um, so we will be, when it comes to economic growth consulting on a revised, um, Heathrow expansion national policy statement over the summer.

Um, and very grateful to you, chair, for setting aside time, uh, for the committee to scrutinise that as well. Um, in the autumn. Um, I do want to maintain a focus on how we achieve value for money from roads investment. Um, £7.3 billion going to local councils to do preventative road resurfacing, fix potholes. That money needs to be spent efficiently and effectively. Um, I'm still very focused on improving public transport. Um, and so we need to make a success of the kids go free bus offer in the summer, which is going to mean that children between the age of five and 15 can travel for free on the buses.

And then, of course, we are still progressing with bringing the train operating companies into public ownership. We've got Chiltern happening in September, Great Western, uh, in December, and I would like to make progress, um, on getting the first phase of East West Rail, um into service as well. Um, so there a personal priority for me. Um, you don't want me to give a long list, so I'll stop there. Perhaps Joe might pick up on the resourcing issue.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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So I've been I really don't want to get too drawn in the detail of this, because I think as soon as I say that I protect one thing, the question will be, Will, you're not protecting something else. Um, and so I hope you'll forgive me if this answer isn't as clear as the ones that I would normally seek to give you. Um, we do have a large capital budget as a department, second only to that of, Ministry of Defence. Now, what I would say is that a lot of the schemes that we are progressing with, many are already in contract.

Um, many are actually already in construction. Um and so we are limited in terms of the changes that we can make to our capital programme. Um, I want to ensure that we protect the things that improve the everyday experience for people of everyday journeys. Um, I'm acutely conscious that we have a very big, uh, maintenance and renewals challenge at the moment, whether that's on our roads with motorways that were predominantly built in the 50s, 60s 70s. And also when you look at local roads, we're all aware of the maintenance challenges there.

Um, but equally on the rail network to ensure that we can provide resilience, we do have to make sure that we continue to invest in renewals and maintenance. Now, you know, there are questions about funds that have yet to be allocated to specific schemes. And so when the Prime Minister says to me, uh, actually, you know, the, the scale of spending that we need for defence and national security of our country is bigger than we anticipated. 1218 months ago, I think as a responsible member of the cabinet in a G7 nation, um, I should look hard at what funds I have yet to allocate and whether there are any adjustments and tweaks that can be made.

But of course, we've also got processes to go through in the department each year when we do business planning and planning for the next year, we've got another spending review coming up where we will need to get into the detail of that.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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Yeah. And look, I think the key themes of Better Connected are all about people, place and partnership. Because the reality of the transport system that most people will experience in the country will often be determined by the role that the local transport authority the council plays, or if people are living in big city regions or combined authority areas. Um, the policies and programmes of the mayors of those areas. And so that's why we chose those three themes for better connected. Um, I do work very closely, um, particularly with MH CLG housing communities and local government and treasury.

Um, if you look at the work we did, uh, about the northern growth strategy and the contribution that Northern Powerhouse Rail can play to that. We have embedded the rail infrastructure proposals to improve those connections, um, in Yorkshire between cities, um like Sheffield, Leeds, Bradford, York as the first phase that new railway between Manchester and Liverpool. Um and then improving cross Pennine connections further that that was all predicated on. Well actually how can we support the, the financial square mile of the north of England in Leeds, both through rail improvements, but also making sure it's properly integrated with Mayor Tracy Brabin's plans for West Yorkshire mass transit.

Um, you know, how do we ensure that the regeneration around Manchester Piccadilly that would be enabled by the creation of a new station there and that new rail link, the link down to Manchester Airport?You can't just look at this in silos. You need to make sure that all parts of government are coming together to unlock the economic opportunity, that that new infrastructure can bring.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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I do, and if you think about the £45 billion commitment that we have made for future decades, um, on. Northern Powerhouse Rail with over £1 billion to be spent in this spending review alone. I think the Chancellor does fully understand and appreciate the transformative effect that investment in transport infrastructure can play. And I'd highlight another area as an example of this. If you consider the planning permission was granted for Universal Studios, um, in Bedford, um, in December of last year, um, our strategy around East West rail, um linking Oxford and Cambridge with a new station at Stewartby, which will be the closest station to that theme park.

Um, a new station at Wixams on the East Midland main line as well. Improvements to the road infrastructure. The black Cat junction around there. We are looking at this in a holistic way and making sure that we're government is investing money. Um, it is also working with the private sector to unlock opportunity. And I think if you look at that Oxford to Cambridge growth Corridor, the transport plans that underpin it. Um, and the, the jobs opportunity that exists with something like universal making it a destination, we granted planning permission for the expansion of Luton Airport as well, which will be the airport closest to that, to actually drive inward tourism to the country.

Um, you know, this is all of us, the Department for culture, Media and Sport working with housing, Communities and local government on the planning framework, working with Treasury to make sure the investments are there, but also making sure that, you know, people can get to and from a new destination such as universal easily.
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None Portrait Speaker 5
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Thank you.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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Thank you. Scott.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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In some places. Yes.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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But that's what that's why I say that what we have set out through all of the work that we're doing, um, highlighted in the Integrated National Transport Strategy and better connected is to um, prioritise improvements in sustainable forms of travel. So prioritise improvement in public transport. That's why going back to the former discussion, we are investing heavily in the rail network to improve connectivity and capacity. It's why we're investing over £3 billion in improving bus services. That money that goes to local transport authorities to support the bus network.

And it's why we're giving leaders more control over defining local bus services. If they want to go down the route of franchising, setting up a municipal bus operator, they can do. Um, and so, look, I think the whole focus of what this government has done over the last two years, um, is about delivering a better public transport system that will be more attractive for people, more affordable for people. Let's not forget that first rail fares freeze in 30 years. Um, we've got the £3 bus fare cap in place.

I want people to feel enabled to do more short trips in towns and cities using sustainable forms of travel. I also think in rural areas, if you look at what we suggested in better connected, um, you know, we're doing a pilot in the Hope Valley, which is called Mini Switzerland, which is about integrating the basics of timetables. Because if you want to use the train to get somewhere, um, but you can't rely upon the bus turning up Wire. But you can't rely upon the bus turning up to get you there and.

Then you're going to perhaps be more minded to use a car. And so, you know. That's the focus of what we're doing.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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No, I don't think there is a contradiction. I think we're in danger of confusing two separate things. Um, you use the example of, uh, not setting a passenger growth target on the railways and somehow suggest that that is in contradiction to an estimate of where, traffic may go in future. The reason why we haven't set a passenger growth target is that I think the only way in which you can, um, you know, if you're complying with the duties of the railways bill, then the consequence of that, um, will be to attract more people to the railways.

Now, you know, we've only got our cast, our mind back four years to when Covid happened. Um, and nobody could predict that coming. Um, but usage of the railways plummeted overnight and no one was on it for understandable reasons. Um, and so we could spend a lot of time, um, setting targets. I, I'm more interested in practical interventions to actually attract people to public transport. And that's why we have focused our attention on affordability. Um, let's not forget that in the 14 years of the previous government, rail fares went up by 60%.

We're the first government in 30 years to freeze it. It's why we've maintained a £3 bus fare cap and made that a priority. Um, and so look, I think judge us on our actions about what we're doing, um, to attract people to the rail network, more direct connections for people, more services running. Um, I think those are the actions of a government that is serious about promoting sustainable travel. And whilst I did reference some of the announcements that we will be making to the road network through the third Roads investment strategy, through things like the Lower Thames Crossing investment, we have also had to take the difficult decision to cancel a number of road schemes, which we did in the year after the general election.

So I do think that there is, um I think there's consistency, to our approach. Um, and I think the proof will actually be in the pudding in terms of how many people are using the railways and those numbers are going up. Um, you know, we're seeing good feedback in terms of bus user passenger experience. Would I like more people back using the buses than that, which is currently the case, of course. Um, but I think our programme of reform, um, can get us to that place in the years ahead.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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Yeah. Um, since the closure of the Straits of Hormuz and the start of this crisis, I've been having not quite daily, but almost weekly conversations, um, with the Secretary of State for energy, um and net zero, um, because he has, he and his department have had a very close dialogue with jet fuel suppliers, um, to understand, uh, how global trade flows are changing, given that, you know, prior to the crisis, starting 20% of the world's oil and liquefied natural gas came through the Straits of Hormuz, um, but also to understand how much jet fuel is coming in, he also asked the, for domestic refineries of jet fuel in the UK to maximize their production.

Um, and actually all of the. Uh, contact I've had with the airlines, um, they have told me that at the moment they are not experiencing any shortage of jet fuel. Um, now, you know, it is good news what we've heard this week, but it is going to take some time for global supply chains to get back to normal. Um, a lot of airlines hedge, um, the purchase of their fuel. Um, and so they've been protected over the summer, the major ones now that does differ, um by airlines.

Uh, what we did decide to do was introduce some legislation to give airlines greater flexibility on landing slots because in normal times they would have to use 80% of their landing slots in order to maintain their right to use them in the following year. And what I wanted to enable was responsible planning on the part of the airlines, because I didn't want, um, last minute cancellations to be happening. So all the indications are, um, that, you know, at the moment, based upon the information that we have, um, people shouldn't be experiencing major disruption, um, due to jet fuel supplies in the coming months.

Um, and I was also pleased to see a number of airlines actually make public that they wouldn't be putting surcharges on. So, um, airlines like Jet2, Easyjet and Ryanair have obviously given a price guarantee this summer.
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None Portrait Speaker 4
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Thank you.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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Thank you Alex.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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Thank you. Thank you.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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I think it might be helpful if I provide a little bit of context, um, actually on all of this because, uh, what happened, um, last year, having done a consultation, we announced some changes in April, to the Zev mandate, um, which gave manufacturers greater flexibility to comply. We also confirmed the 2030 phase out date for the sale of new petrol and diesel cars. And we confirmed that hybrids could be sold until 2035. There is no suggestion that the 2030 or the 2035 dates will change.

Um, when we announced those flexibilities last April, which came into force at the beginning of this year, we also said that there would be another review, um, that would be done in 2027. Now we've started some early engagement with the car manufacturers as part of that review process. Um, I do understand from car manufacturers that they are experiencing significant challenges at the moment. And so I would like to complete the review of the Zev mandate that was due in 2027. I'd like to get that completed, um, in the next six months.

Now, you know what we are seeing, um, is actually quite positive EV sales at the moment. I referenced earlier, um, that in May there was 27% of cars that were sold were EVs, 34% increase on the May previous. Um, and so, and, you know, we're also seeing a lot of investment in things like charging infrastructure. And this is a whole ecosystem that we, you know, need to get right if we're going to make this transition happen. The only other point I would make is that we, this is an area where we need the agreement of the devolved governments.

Um, and so before any consultation happens about any potential changes, um, I do need to have conversations with my colleagues in the other, um, my counterparts in the devolved governments. Um, because what we don't want is a Zev mandate that only applies to one nation of the UK. And there are good reasons for it being part of devolved agreement. And so that's the process that we're going through at the moment.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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Um, so I, the 2030 phase out date for the, the banning the sale of new petrol and diesel cars remains. And there are no proposals to change that. Um, there are no proposals to change the 2035 phase out date, um for hybrid vehicles. Um, the way in which the Zev mandate operates is pretty straightforward when it comes to customers and consumers, but it's more complicated for the manufacturers. And so if I give you the example of this year, the headline target that manufacturers need to meet is 33% of sales need to be EVs.

Um, but they can essentially, um, score credits towards meeting that headline target if they decarbonise their non Zev fleet fast, if they think that they are going to perform well in future years, they can borrow against that future performance. And some have actually brought over performance from previous years forward. And so you can there's a headline trajectory and an effective trajectory. Um, and there are questions about, uh, exactly. How that trajectory is defined. Um, at the moment, the trajectory requires manufacturers to sell 80%, um, of vehicles as EVs in 2030.

And their point to us is, well, if we've, if we're selling, say around 26% this year, how realistic is it for us to get to 80%?And, you know, would that be better to be slightly lower?And so it's essentially about the proportion of EVs and hybrids that are sold between now and 2035 in each year. So it's a complicated technical discussion, but it does require, um, conversations with the devolved governments. I want to give respect to my partners and colleagues in the devolved governments to have those conversations in a meaningful way.

We would then need to go out to public consultation, and then there would need to be agreement about the way in which we move forward.
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None Portrait Speaker 3
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At anyway.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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Yeah.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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I can understand why it's hard for people to get their head around, but the way that Mark Wilder has described this to me is that the civil engineering project is four years delayed. It's taken four years longer than it was originally predicted to do, and then the, um, the. Work on, uh, putting the systems in, um, testing, commissioning the railway, the original project team underestimated how long that was going to take. By three years. Um, and so those two things together add a further seven years into this project.

And as someone who oversaw the commissioning of Crossrail, when I was the deputy mayor for transport in London, I started in 2018, the civil engineering was pretty much completed. They were doing the final fit out of the stations and the process of making sure that all of the systems, the communication systems, the signalling, everything was operating and getting the trains running, being tested on the track, making sure that everything works together. That took four years between 2018 and 2022. Um, and so what, what we've tried to do in delivering the reset on HS2, um, is, have.

Have set credible. Delivery, uh, ranges for when that first phase between old Oak Common and Birmingham Curzon Street is going to come online. And when the full line between Euston linking in to Handsacre and services up to um north of the West Midlands. Yeah, it's we've got to do this properly and I don't think anyone would forgive me for saying today um that I think we could get it delivered in X year only in two years time to come back and say it's going to be two years later.

So I, you know, I press the team on how they can do things as fast as possible. Um, that's also why we took the decision to reduce it from 360 to 320km/h, because it was the professional opinion of Mark Wylde that that could save us up to a year in delivery. Um, and up to £2 billion in terms of cost. Um, and, you know, given the very, very marginal impact it would have on journey time, I thought that was the right thing to do for the programme.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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Well, the truth of the matter is I inherited an absolute mess. Um, and the previous government wasn't, uh, didn't actually provide sufficient funding for work to be done. Um, a small amount of funding was available. Um, we've dedicated £1.1 billion, um, in this spending review, but we also want to work differently, um, because we need to work in partnership with local leaders. And we're doing that at three levels when it comes to Northern Powerhouse Rail. So at a city level, uh, talking about things like the actual route alignment for the new Manchester to Liverpool Railway, uh, with Steve Rotherham into Liverpool talking about the nature of the new station at Manchester Piccadilly, um, the mayor of Greater Manchester has, uh, big aspirations for an underground station, um as opposed to a surface station.

We need to work through the detail of all of that. Um, so we're working with local leaders at a city level, but we've also put in place the, um, white. Rose rail board. Um, which was the suggestion of local leaders in Yorkshire. And you've got the Liverpool to Manchester rail board. Um we've put our minister uh on those rail boards and that's going to be part of the governance process. And then we've also got some pan northern arrangements to look at, uh, taking decisions on things like funding allocations within the £45 billion envelope.

So I think the previous government, uh, did. Not do the hard work with local leaders to get buy in around scope, around prioritisation around what happens first, what happens second, what happens third. Um, and in order to set this program up for success, we need to do that work now. And that's what my department is doing. Joe might want to say something internally about what we're doing around better control over the governance as well.
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None Portrait Speaker 1
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Rebecca.
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None Portrait Speaker 2
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I think we are making good progress with Great British Railways. Um, we obviously had the Railways Bill passed its common stages last week and that goes into the Lords. And you know you will be aware that that gives me the powers to set up GBR. We anticipate that GBR will be established. Um probably about 12 months after the act gets royal assent. Um but we're also making changes in advance of GBR coming into effect so that we've got more integrated management, um, in the regions.

Um and Lord Peter Hendy, when he was in front of the committee, might have explained to you the three integrated, um managing directors that we've got in place now in the South east in Anglia. Um and also in South Western, which was the first one. Um we will be doing the same for the GTR area, the greater Thameslink area, given that we took that train operating company into public ownership just a couple of weeks ago. Um, I think that is starting to unlock some of the, um, the collaborative working that we want to see through GBR and the fact that we're able to do that in advance of the organisation actually being set up, um, is really positive.

Um, we will be making an announcement um about the GBR headquarters in Derby soon. Um and we're also working on the appointment of the chair of GBR um and would anticipate making an announcement about who the chair of this organisation will be, because it's important that they're in post in order to recruit the executive leadership of the organisation. So we're ready to go. Um, when we get to the establishment of GBR, uh, towards the end of 2027.
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None Portrait Speaker 8
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100 miles.
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None Portrait Speaker 3
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So I think the last example that you gave there about the disagreements between transport for Wales, um and GW are about access to track and running of new services that will be better under GBR because at the moment um it's a decision that the have to take and we're changing the way that access decisions are going to be made through the Railways bill. And there'll be a single guiding mind there. I've also signed a memorandum of understanding with the Welsh Government, um, the former Cabinet Secretary for transport about how we're going to work together on these sorts of issues to make sure that we're maximising, you know, connectivity, appropriate capacity for people that are making those sorts of, uh, England to Wales journeys.

I think the other two examples that you mentioned, um, what we, what I'm not going to pretend is that under Great British Railways, we're not going to be trying to find ways to deliver services more efficiently. And I think it is appropriate that a train operator, whether it's a privately run train operator or a publicly run one, um, make sure that it's using its public subsidy to best effect. Um, we probably do need to reduce public subsidy. Therefore we do need to match the um.

Capacity to demand on services. Um, and I think sensible operational decisions have to be made on those things. And I'm also not going to apologize for taking action to tackle fraud in terms of, you know, people claiming a refund for a ticket that they've used and those changes to on the day refunds. Um, you know, we've communicated clearly with people in advance of those changes coming in, but I think that was the other example you gave. I think that's a reasonable thing.

Um, for us to be doing, um, because we, you can't tolerate a situation where people are making a refund for a ticket that they've actually used.
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None Portrait Speaker 3
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Additional content?
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None Portrait Speaker 4
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Yes. So if I set out we've made a number of announcements about how we are funding Lower Thames Crossing since the election. So first of all, the spending review, the government announced the 590 million for the first year of the spending review period. We were still working with the Secretary of State and the Treasury on the overall approach to the financing of Lower Thames Crossing at that stage. So we only announced the first year, made the commitment that at autumn budget 2025, we would announce the overall approach.

And so the Treasury committed a further £891 million. At that point. We have in the department, as we would with any infrastructure programme, looked at what is needed for the programme to get the most efficient and effective delivery, and then whether we are able to allocate funding. So the difference, you see is choices we've been able to make within the Department to bring forward to this financial year an extra 174 million effectively to de-risk the programme by making faster progress on those early construction works.

It's all included within the main estimate, uh, disclosure on national highways of 4.2 billion. So it's effectively, you know, with any infrastructure program, you know, it is difficult to predict at the start of a spending review period exactly what will be efficient to spend in any period of time. We look both on a portfolio basis. If you think about RNP and rail or where we have standalone projects like this, where we can bring forward spend, where we can to have the most efficient and effective delivery.

And that's what the Lower Thames Crossing spending represents.
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None Portrait Speaker 9
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Okay, so if I could.
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This debate has concluded
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