Energy Security and Net Zero Committee
Wednesday 28th October 2026
Skip to latest contribution
This debate has concluded
(began 14 hours, 50 minutes ago)
Watch LiveSkip to latest contribution
This debate has concluded
09:19
Bill Esterson
-
-
Bill Esterson
Welcome to this morning's session of the Energy Security Net Zero Select Committee. We have our one off session on the work of Nesa, and we welcome Kate O'Neill, the Chief Operating Officer and the Chief executive. And Fenton. I believe you'd like to make an opening remark, some opening remarks. So over to you, please.
09:20
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
Thanks very much, chair. Thank you very much for inviting us to committee today. Very much appreciate the opportunity to come and talk to you and to provide evidence. Maybe just to start by acknowledging that last week there was the independent report into whistleblower allegations that were made against Nesa, which was published, and this investigation by Eversheds International. While it did not substantiate any of the four allegations made against Niso, it did identify other organisational and cultural issues where we need to improve. And indeed , it made seven specific recommendations which have since been accepted by the board and acting on those acting on the report's findings.
Delivering those recommendations is a priority for me, for the executive and for all of the board. Last week, we also saw the interim report of the Ofgem commissioned review into the operation and system and and market during the extreme heat at the end of June. And I don't want to prejudge any of the findings of the final report, which will come out later this year. But what we do know, I think, from the interim report, is that it was an absolutely exceptional period of extreme weather, which placed significant stress on the electricity system in Great Britain and indeed on electricity systems right around Europe.
And despite this, our operation and control room teams did a phenomenal job and no customer demand was disconnected and the frequency remained within the required statutory limits at all times. I absolutely understand there's significant interest in these processes, and I'm sure we'll speak about them this morning. And I, the board, the executive take all of these really, really seriously. Alongside these, though, I think it's also important to call out some of the key areas where we've made significant progress and delivered significant outcomes since we were last in front of this committee chair. We have advanced the once in a generation reformation of the connections queue for connection to our electricity system.
We've made significant progress around strategic energy planning with the Strategic Spatial Energy Plan, pathways submitted to the Secretary of State and standing up the regional energy strategic planning process. We continue to operate one of the most reliable electricity systems in the world, and we've saved consumers over £1.2 billion in constraint costs over the last number of years. We still undoubtedly have a huge amount to do and indeed lessons to learn, but we will continue to make progress. I am absolutely confident that Niso, and most importantly, the great people that work for us tirelessly day in, day out.
And I know that we'll continue to deliver a secure electricity system today and help design a resilient energy system for tomorrow. And in doing all of this, we'll keep the interests of consumers absolutely front of mind as it is for them that the system must deliver in the long run. Thank you very much, chair. I appreciate the time.
Delivering those recommendations is a priority for me, for the executive and for all of the board. Last week, we also saw the interim report of the Ofgem commissioned review into the operation and system and and market during the extreme heat at the end of June. And I don't want to prejudge any of the findings of the final report, which will come out later this year. But what we do know, I think, from the interim report, is that it was an absolutely exceptional period of extreme weather, which placed significant stress on the electricity system in Great Britain and indeed on electricity systems right around Europe.
And despite this, our operation and control room teams did a phenomenal job and no customer demand was disconnected and the frequency remained within the required statutory limits at all times. I absolutely understand there's significant interest in these processes, and I'm sure we'll speak about them this morning. And I, the board, the executive take all of these really, really seriously. Alongside these, though, I think it's also important to call out some of the key areas where we've made significant progress and delivered significant outcomes since we were last in front of this committee chair. We have advanced the once in a generation reformation of the connections queue for connection to our electricity system.
We've made significant progress around strategic energy planning with the Strategic Spatial Energy Plan, pathways submitted to the Secretary of State and standing up the regional energy strategic planning process. We continue to operate one of the most reliable electricity systems in the world, and we've saved consumers over £1.2 billion in constraint costs over the last number of years. We still undoubtedly have a huge amount to do and indeed lessons to learn, but we will continue to make progress. I am absolutely confident that Niso, and most importantly, the great people that work for us tirelessly day in, day out.
And I know that we'll continue to deliver a secure electricity system today and help design a resilient energy system for tomorrow. And in doing all of this, we'll keep the interests of consumers absolutely front of mind as it is for them that the system must deliver in the long run. Thank you very much, chair. I appreciate the time.
09:23
Bill Esterson
-
-
Bill Esterson
Okay. Well, thank you very much for your your opening comments, which prompts a number of questions on its own. Given the admissions that you've made around some of the organisation and cultural challenges that you face, should you and your chair be more visible, much more visible in explaining publicly what the state is doing, what your priorities are, why things are happening? Do you think that is one of the lessons that you intend to make such a change?
09:24
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
I think there is certainly a point around making sure that the work that Niso does is explained in a really transparent, objective and open way. And we are a relatively young organisation, so it's only around for just over two years and doesn't have the recognition that that some organisations, other organisations would have. I think through the summer chair, what we've seen is with the two reviews going on, there was a a desire not to prejudice the outcome of those reviews by, by speaking to publicly about them. But in in the recent past, only two weeks ago, I was on a stage being interviewed at the energy UK Industry Conference.
I was on stage with Rachel Millard from the Ft being interviewed at the Financial Times conference, and indeed I was at the Public Accounts Committee with colleagues from Ofgem and DNS. So it is something that we are looking to increase that visibility and presence and explanation of our role. I would say.
I was on stage with Rachel Millard from the Ft being interviewed at the Financial Times conference, and indeed I was at the Public Accounts Committee with colleagues from Ofgem and DNS. So it is something that we are looking to increase that visibility and presence and explanation of our role. I would say.
09:24
09:25
09:25
Bill Esterson
-
-
Bill Esterson
Now, I had it described to me that the challenges of the energy transition, the electrification of our system means more grid generation and storage, which is the fastest change in a generation, all while keeping bills down and bringing communities with us and keeping our climate commitments. How well is Niso performing on that metric? Assuming you accept that that is the the challenge.
09:25
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So I think the challenge of the energy industry, and indeed it is to balance those three things right around security of energy supply, affordability for consumers and transition to a sustainable energy system. And I think if you look at some of the big transitions that we are part of delivering, because this is an energy transition across the industry, there are bits of it that we are leading on. There's bits of it that we are participating in, but things like reformation of the connections queue, that is a once in a generational change of how we think about connecting to the electricity system.
And I think we have progressed that. And that is now progressing to plan. And people have are getting the connection offers that they need to connect. I think.
And I think we have progressed that. And that is now progressing to plan. And people have are getting the connection offers that they need to connect. I think.
09:26
09:26
09:27
09:27
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
Absolutely. And that is what the engineers in Niso are doing in terms of trying to ensure that as we keep the system secure, that we manage the increased complexity that we see as we move from a fossil fuel based system to a more renewable based system. It's undoubtedly more complex, but we have brilliant engineers and there are brilliant engineers right across the energy system who are absolutely dedicated to making sure that we marry all of those three things up.
09:27
Bill Esterson
-
-
Bill Esterson
Yeah, I mean, one of the one of the criticisms we hear is that there is a and I think this came out somewhat in the reporting over the summer, there is a resistance or for some reason, a delay in using the latest technology and digitization of the grid is where we get efficiencies from, for example, and enable better use of demand flexibility. Is that a fair criticism that Niso is not embracing technology in the use of AI as fast as it could?
09:28
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
I say actually, technology and the use of AI are hugely important to us in a number of places. So how we use it ourselves, in our ways of working in the organisation and in the control room, but also how we think about the value of data , digitalisation, AI, technology enhancements across the sector. So where our control room and our teams are connecting with market providers and market participants and the work that they're doing. I'd say we've actually seen some really great progress. In fact, we're nearing completion of a very, very significant technology change out programme in the control room where we've introduced new systems, new processes for colleagues, giving them much better visibility of what's going on in the system and a much greater ability to sort of optimise.
So that's within our own control room day to day as we balance the system. But we've also taken on a real leadership role in engaging with industry on the value of being able to share data and information, being able to do that in a real sort of standardised way, creating the potential for that data to be used to think about how we plan the system for the very long term, how we operate the markets to deliver what the control room needs and then to be able to make.
So that's within our own control room day to day as we balance the system. But we've also taken on a real leadership role in engaging with industry on the value of being able to share data and information, being able to do that in a real sort of standardised way, creating the potential for that data to be used to think about how we plan the system for the very long term, how we operate the markets to deliver what the control room needs and then to be able to make.
09:29
Bill Esterson
-
-
Bill Esterson
Okay. Look, thank you for that. And I was looking at an example, a pilot example, and it goes to what you were saying about curtailment and costs pilot example of a of a heavy user of electricity being paid to use electricity during periods of that. Otherwise you'd be paying to curtail wind farm production. And so they've set up the system and of storage to benefit from it. And yet they're not being allowed to use it because Nyiso never gives them the the consent to, to, to do so. An allied to that, it got me thinking, well, if this is something that Niso is looking at, why is it not rolled out more quickly?
Why are we not already there with encouraging heavy energy users more widely to, to benefit from this option of of storing storing electricity when at the moment we're having to pay to switch it off.
Why are we not already there with encouraging heavy energy users more widely to, to benefit from this option of of storing storing electricity when at the moment we're having to pay to switch it off.
09:30
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So I, I obviously don't know the specific examples of the specifics of the example that you quote, but maybe, maybe two things. One, the use of flexibility in a widespread sense that down to household level was something that Niso has pioneered through ESO previously with the demand flexibility scheme. And we have recently run a really significant further innovation trial with partners called Crowd Flex around how do we build out and expand that on the subject of sort of industrial and commercial consumers and how they do that? One part of that is what are the signals that Niso gives?
But the other part of it is, how does the market reward that type of flexibility? Because really, Niso should be just stepping in as the residual balancer in the market. When when in the first instance, the market should resolve that. And what we need to look at is how do we make sure that the right signals and market incentives are there such that the type of situation that you describe, where an industrial customer has some storage assets, maybe has some flexible load that they can operate in a way such that the value that they deliver back to the system is recognised in either cheaper electricity that they pay or a payment stream for that, that flexibility.
And we're working with Alexon as the market facilitator, market facilitator on that and the flexibility Commissioner that has been appointed as well, to look at all of the mechanisms that we can do to get that. I mean, we're hugely supportive of enabling demand flexibility. We see it as part of the long term solution. It was one of the early things, one of the first things listed in our Clean Power advice to government back in 2024 around how to do that.
But the other part of it is, how does the market reward that type of flexibility? Because really, Niso should be just stepping in as the residual balancer in the market. When when in the first instance, the market should resolve that. And what we need to look at is how do we make sure that the right signals and market incentives are there such that the type of situation that you describe, where an industrial customer has some storage assets, maybe has some flexible load that they can operate in a way such that the value that they deliver back to the system is recognised in either cheaper electricity that they pay or a payment stream for that, that flexibility.
And we're working with Alexon as the market facilitator, market facilitator on that and the flexibility Commissioner that has been appointed as well, to look at all of the mechanisms that we can do to get that. I mean, we're hugely supportive of enabling demand flexibility. We see it as part of the long term solution. It was one of the early things, one of the first things listed in our Clean Power advice to government back in 2024 around how to do that.
09:32
Bill Esterson
-
-
Bill Esterson
I suppose my question is, why hasn't it already? Why are we not further advanced with it? You said that this was something that happened before Niso came into existence. That's took more than two years ago. You also said, when you were describing it there, that you recognise that this is technologically feasible. It goes to the previous question I was asking. I think about whether Niso is using technology in as advanced a way as as it could.
Is. Is that a fair criticism? Because that's what's being said to me.
Is. Is that a fair criticism? Because that's what's being said to me.
09:33
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So I don't think it's nesos use or lack thereof, of technology that is impeding the rollout or the adoption and payment for flexibility and sort of the commercial and industrial space that that you're talking about. I think what we haven't seen is the market arrangements developed to a point that that is a commercially attractive proposition for that individual.
09:33
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So I think that you so so government published I think it was last year, the Clean Flexibility roadmap, which is a roadmap setting out across industry participants, the regulator, ourselves, market facilitator, the things that need to be done across the different sections of the market to enable that flexibility to, to come on stream. And all of the parties are working to try to, to progress that as quickly as possible.
09:34
09:34
09:34
09:34
09:35
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So there I think as with anything in the energy space, there are competing priorities and competing tensions. And in fact, you know, the energy system is ultimately how do you balance, as we talked about earlier, those elements of the trilemma? I think it is a huge role and set of responsibilities that that we've been given. And we have looked to scale the organisation very significantly since its inception in October 2024. I mean, we started with just over 1000 people, were nearly 3000 people now. So we are really scaling up the resources and the capabilities we have in the organisation across all dimensions.
So it is a really except it is a really broad remit. I think that one of the benefits that Niso brings is that you have all of those elements within one organisation, and therefore can see the trade offs between them, and take that whole system perspective such that you can focus on getting the right answer for consumers and for the system.
So it is a really except it is a really broad remit. I think that one of the benefits that Niso brings is that you have all of those elements within one organisation, and therefore can see the trade offs between them, and take that whole system perspective such that you can focus on getting the right answer for consumers and for the system.
09:36
Melanie Onn
-
-
Melanie Onn
And you don't seem to be managing that very well in terms of the levels of expectation and delivery. You've admitted yourself that you knew about issues in the control room but failed to take action, have said that there was lots of change happening in the organisation. You're used to working in large organisations. Would it be better if there was someone who was in a position to deal with, or has more experience of change management? If you're not able to take on board significant concerns that an investigation has revealed exposes deep cultural issues.
09:37
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So I think we take incredibly seriously the findings of the Eversheds investigation. I think the organisation has been on a journey since it was established at the end of 2024. We've grown the organisation significantly and have delivered some incredibly big and important things for the energy system and for the country over that period. I think what the report showed is that there are some things that we need to to focus on and to improve. Absolutely. As the chief executive, I take responsibility for making sure that we do that, that the organisation grows and that we build the capability within it and address those issues such that we continue to deliver for society and for the economy.
09:38
09:38
09:38
09:38
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
In terms of the deliver in terms of the achievability of 2030. I think when we first set out our advice to government, I think that the term we used, that it was a Herculean task that would require all parts of the system to do things at a pace and in a way that hadn't been done previously. And I think that.
09:38
09:38
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
I think our view remains that it is an incredibly challenging target to hit 2030 in terms of the pieces of the, of, of the plan that we are responsible for, we are absolutely focused on making sure that we do deliver those bits, but it is an energy system wide indeed, economy wide change. We do not hold or control all of the levers necessary to hit 2030, but we are absolutely committed to working with industry partners, government and the regulator to play our part and make sure our bits of it are delivered.
09:39
09:39
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So I think probably at the moment is infrastructure delivery. So if you think about the scale of the transformation that Clean Power 2030 is both on the generation side and on the network side. These are really big, hairy infrastructure projects. And I think the delivery of those within the timeline is probably the greatest. So will the generation, renewable generation, etc. come on stream, and will the network build be delivered in line with the expected timelines, I think, and and within that, there are obviously a series of specific risks with each of those categories. But I would add a macro sense, say that infrastructure delivery is is probably the biggest risk.
Thank you.
Thank you.
09:40
09:40
09:40
09:40
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So I think if we reflect on the report and what it said, it didn't substantiate the four specific allegations. But what it did find was that there was a set of other cultural issues within the organisation that we needed to look at, and we are completely committed to doing that. And one of the reflections is that. So one of the things that, as you would expect that we did, we we looked at our whistleblowing and speak up policy to make sure, is it fit for purpose? Does it have all of the elements in it that it should for an organisation such as us?
But our. My reflection is that while it does and it did, we need to go further as an organisation and be best in class at this and ensure that we have a culture in the organisation that that encourages this and encourages people to use the internal channels and indeed the other external channels. For example, the Ofgem have whistleblowing facilities as well, and we're in the process of engaging with both the trade unions who have really great examples of where this works really well in other organisations and external experts to make sure that actually we have we're not just the policy isn't just what it needs to be.
Actually, we have a culture so that people's lived experience in the organisation is that they feel free to raise things that they. And whether that is within their teams or anonymously. One of the things I did take some comfort from in in the report and hands up, there was difficult reading in there was that people actually feel quite comfortable raising issues with their managers and within their teams. What we weren't really good at at all was providing a feedback loop as to say to them, this is what we've done with your concerns. You've raised a concern team.
Somewhere else in the organisation would have dealt with it, but we never or we weren't as good as we should have been at closing the feedback loop. So those individuals who raised it could see how that feedback loop was closed.
But our. My reflection is that while it does and it did, we need to go further as an organisation and be best in class at this and ensure that we have a culture in the organisation that that encourages this and encourages people to use the internal channels and indeed the other external channels. For example, the Ofgem have whistleblowing facilities as well, and we're in the process of engaging with both the trade unions who have really great examples of where this works really well in other organisations and external experts to make sure that actually we have we're not just the policy isn't just what it needs to be.
Actually, we have a culture so that people's lived experience in the organisation is that they feel free to raise things that they. And whether that is within their teams or anonymously. One of the things I did take some comfort from in in the report and hands up, there was difficult reading in there was that people actually feel quite comfortable raising issues with their managers and within their teams. What we weren't really good at at all was providing a feedback loop as to say to them, this is what we've done with your concerns. You've raised a concern team.
Somewhere else in the organisation would have dealt with it, but we never or we weren't as good as we should have been at closing the feedback loop. So those individuals who raised it could see how that feedback loop was closed.
09:42
Lizzi Collinge
-
-
Lizzi Collinge
But even so, those people, they obviously raised concerns in your organisation. They felt they weren't being dealt with and therefore they had to. Whistleblow so what are you actually doing to instil a culture where next time we have an issue like we did in June 2026, how will you ensure that people don't have to go outside the organisation whistleblower, but you deal with their concerns and that culture of honesty within the organisation actually changes and delivers?
09:43
09:43
09:43
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So very specifically in terms of the things that we've done, we've set up an engineering forum run by our chief engineer that provides a forum whereby any concerns that the operational teams or control room teams can raise, those things are then explicitly triaged and dealt with with a feedback loop back to that individual. So that is one very specific thing that we have done. We've also established a new committee at the highest level of committee of the executive team, the Operability committee, that looks at and that has senior managers as well on it, that enables any of those issues that are coming up through the organisation in a very explicit way to be dealt with at the highest level and make sure that those concerns, to the extent they need to be addressed, are addressed and it's cross-functional to make sure that we join up all the bits of the business, and that committee will provide updates on a regular basis into the board to make sure that we have closed that off, because, as I say, one of the issues was this feedback loop, wasn't there.
So we've done that. We're also talking to the organisation in a really open way about this, and trying to engage both individuals and cohorts of teams across the organisation, and looking to engage with the trade unions to get their advice and input on how to do this. So we're trying to move on multiple fronts to address this and to do it in a really open way with the organisation and the people.
So we've done that. We're also talking to the organisation in a really open way about this, and trying to engage both individuals and cohorts of teams across the organisation, and looking to engage with the trade unions to get their advice and input on how to do this. So we're trying to move on multiple fronts to address this and to do it in a really open way with the organisation and the people.
09:45
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
I think the big thing for me is, you know, we recognise that trust with our colleagues is crucially important. And one of the things for me from the from the report is if there is a single individual in the organisation who feels that they don't trust that we will take their concerns seriously and see that then, then that is one too many. And we, you know, the proof will be in the pudding. They need to see us behave differently. They need to see that change flow through. And hopefully, you know, we will have that, that trust, which I think we have in, you know, in many, in many ways and in vast swathes across the organisation.
But for any individual to have to go outside and use a whistleblowing channel because they felt they weren't being listened to is one too many. So we need to we need.
But for any individual to have to go outside and use a whistleblowing channel because they felt they weren't being listened to is one too many. So we need to we need.
09:46
09:46
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
Yeah. So again, something we take really, really seriously, the, the teams in the control room, the guys and girls in the control room, you know, they're very, very well trained. That is an environment where they thrive. It's where they do the amazing work that they are there to do, but they are very open in talking to us about where that feels challenging and where they're looking to us to sort of provide that support. So we have really practical things on the ground, which is the ability for them to, you know, as they come off shift, talk to people who, if they feel that they just need to sort of bent and, you know, talk about what it's like to be on shift and to operate the system sometimes in very challenging circumstances.
But also, you know, we've got really good team structures, a great leadership, a great leadership team in and around the control room who are continually having that dialogue with, with colleagues, making sure that they've got got the support that they need. And the forums that Finton talk to will allow us to identify where they think there are specific things that we can do that that will help. So a good example of that is, you know, we know that one of the challenges in the control room, one of the things that can make it challenging to operate the system is visibility of what's going on.
So they talk to us about that. We're now looking at how do we give better visibility, better situational awareness in the control room. That's as a direct, you know, sort of outcome of, of having those really open conversations.
But also, you know, we've got really good team structures, a great leadership, a great leadership team in and around the control room who are continually having that dialogue with, with colleagues, making sure that they've got got the support that they need. And the forums that Finton talk to will allow us to identify where they think there are specific things that we can do that that will help. So a good example of that is, you know, we know that one of the challenges in the control room, one of the things that can make it challenging to operate the system is visibility of what's going on.
So they talk to us about that. We're now looking at how do we give better visibility, better situational awareness in the control room. That's as a direct, you know, sort of outcome of, of having those really open conversations.
09:47
09:47
09:48
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
I think there was a huge amount that was already underway that we were doing to, to address those those issues. I think that the review, because of its nature and being a public report, put a very fine point on it. But I think, you know, we are a relatively young organisation that has been growing significantly. And to the extent that there were cultural issues within the organisation, we were looking to address them proactively through all of this. Obviously, with having those very specific seven recommendations in the report, which, you know, the board have accepted in full, provides a focus for for delivering on them.
09:48
Bill Esterson
-
-
Bill Esterson
Yeah. I mean, you're not the first large organisation to face cultural issues, but of course, the safety critical nature of your organisation puts it on a different level. I mean, there is a very big difference between people in theory. Describe the process you've set up. The very big difference between people in theory, being able to engage with senior managers to raise any concerns and in practice, feeling, having the confidence. And Kate used the word trust. It's a really important word, trusting that they will be listened to. And not just listen to, but respected and not and not suffer adverse consequences as a result.
How are you making sure that this is a success?
How are you making sure that this is a success?
09:49
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So we're acutely conscious of exactly the things that you you say to her, because it is the lived experience of, of colleagues that that matters, not the set of processes. Processes are important and necessary, but not, not sufficient. We need to, to make sure that people feel that they they will be heard. As I say, one of the key things in the report that that came through was that people, the people that were interviewed indicated they were they were relatively comfortable actually raising their concern with their manager. What they felt was that that feedback loop was enclosed and that will have a knock on consequence.
So the next time, they may not actually raise it at all because they feel that it hasn't been heard or it hasn't been acted on, even if it has somewhere in the organisation. We just haven't closed the feedback loop. So we are looking to put in those both behavioural changes. So at an executive level, in terms of how we engage with the teams, but also put in place the processes such that those feedback loops are really clear and really closed.
So the next time, they may not actually raise it at all because they feel that it hasn't been heard or it hasn't been acted on, even if it has somewhere in the organisation. We just haven't closed the feedback loop. So we are looking to put in those both behavioural changes. So at an executive level, in terms of how we engage with the teams, but also put in place the processes such that those feedback loops are really clear and really closed.
09:50
Bill Esterson
-
-
Bill Esterson
Yeah, yeah. You've talked about your executive level engagement a few times now. Does this mean that you and your executive team are going to be talking to engineers and people at all levels of the organisation to build those relationships and to demonstrate by leading that. That's the culture change you want.
09:51
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
Absolutely. We will be out there doing that, talking to them, and it's something I do all the time. I go into the control room, talk to the teams. It's something we do around the organisation, but I think we need to it's clear we need to do more of that and be better at doing it, and also where things come up in those conversations that there is actually a follow through or a follow up and back to that individual who raises something. So I think that is that is really important, and that those are the things that will change the culture of the organisation and indeed, the lived experience of the people who work for us.
09:51
09:52
09:52
09:52
09:52
Graeme Downie
-
-
Graeme Downie
Given given that you've always been in post for two years, do you not feel that that level of disconnect, given that you're just told the chair that you're speaking to these people all the time, you've got all these processes in place? Do you not feel that in that two years, you should have been aware of that disconnect between the control room and the senior leadership team?
09:52
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So I think through the two years, we've worked really hard across all of the operational teams and and the control room and all of the staff in the organisation to make sure that they have a voice that, that they that they are connected with, with the organisation. We do extensive staff engagement surveys. We do.
09:53
09:53
09:53
09:53
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So, so I think some of the things like the chair talked about in terms of engagement with the teams in the control room, some of the things that we are putting in place and had moved to put in place before this report came out. For example, the Engineering Forum, which is chaired by our chief engineer and specifically designed to enable people to raise concerns and our opportunities. So so it's not just the risks, but it's also we think we could do we think that this new tool would would allow us to do something in a different way.
09:54
09:54
09:54
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
And we are continuously looking at how do we improve the engagement right across the organisation with, with, with colleagues, and how can we do a better job of ensuring that the brilliant people that we have can do the great work that they need to do? And that is, as a chief executive, that is a continuous job and a continuous role to look at how we can do that better.
09:54
Graeme Downie
-
-
Graeme Downie
09:55
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I suppose we have the report and the things that it found. Right. So I think that is. A set of actions and recommendations that we'll now take forward and deal with. But as I say, we do extensive surveying of our staff on an anonymous basis that allows them to provide feedback to the executive team and provide their perspectives on on the organisation.
09:55
09:55
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
I think the report identified a specific issue of a disconnect between the control room teams and executive management. And I think, you know, the control room is a really specific environment, given its its shift work. It is a day to day, minute to minute operational task that is incredibly complex. And I have such high regard for the brilliant people that are in there and the job that they do, but engaging because of the shift patterns, because of the type of work that they do, it is it is a different form of engagement that you need to ensure you bring them in.
09:56
Graeme Downie
-
-
Graeme Downie
09:56
09:56
Graeme Downie
-
-
Graeme Downie
Just briefly, looking forward, you mentioned in your opening remarks and questions to my colleagues about the upscaling of the organisation. How are you making sure that in that upscaling, you're not embedding the difficulties that you've faced up to now and that have been highlighted by the report?
09:57
09:57
Graeme Downie
-
-
Graeme Downie
Sorry, what's a cultural diagnostic? It is to apologies. Okay. My concern here is having sat through and worked with many corporate organisations who use phrases like corporate diagnostic, most teams will go, what the hell is that? And they will switch off immediately. So can I suggest that in engaging with the workforce, those kind of terms perhaps point to a cultural problem rather than try and solve one, right?
09:57
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Fair enough. Point and point taken. And. Maybe to, to, to take a step back then and just say that the culture of the organisation is really, really important as an executive and indeed, as the board were acutely conscious of that. We are a growing organisation, and in doing that, we need to make sure that we instil absolutely the the culture that we want. It is an organisation that has transitioned from being a subsidiary of a sort of FTSE 20 large private sector organisation to being a standalone public corporation, and that is that is quite different.
And that is something that we actively talk to our teams and our staff around around what the different expectations are of, of leadership, of, of openness, of transparency of, of delivery within that type of organisation. So it is, it is a conversation that we continue to have with the organisation about this.
And that is something that we actively talk to our teams and our staff around around what the different expectations are of, of leadership, of, of openness, of transparency of, of delivery within that type of organisation. So it is, it is a conversation that we continue to have with the organisation about this.
09:58
09:58
09:58
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So I believe I am chair. I am absolutely committed to the organisation, to its mission. I think it is an absolutely phenomenal group of people who do a phenomenal job delivering for the country, society and the economy, and it is really hard, obviously, as chief executive, when you read a report such as the one that was published, I think the helpful thing is it pointed to the things that need to be done, and I am completely committed to ensuring those things are delivered , and that the organisation is the great organisation that it can and should be.
Okay.
Okay.
09:59
Torcuil Crichton
-
-
Torcuil Crichton
Thank you. Chair. You stole my thunder. Thanks for coming in. I know this is difficult, but Finton, I'm a journalist, I like whistleblowers, they tend to speak truth to power. And the picture they present in newspaper reports is quite different from the one you've presented to us today. They say that you know that that's safe to say. Program to allow staff to raise concerns. They describe that as a running joke. And they say that people get beaten down if they're not acquiescent or they don't comply with management. Think. Do you think you've got the confidence of your staff?
10:00
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So I believe I do. I think that it is always difficult and it is always and it is a disappointment to me that there is any individual or team within the organisation that doesn't feel that they can speak truth to power, that they can have their voice heard. That is always a disappointment. But when I look across the organisation and look at the feedback that that we get through both informal channels, 1 to 1 through team works that we do, but also through anonymous staff surveys where people have the opportunity to, to speak up. We, we, we don't see the same story as replicated within as outlined in, in some of the media reports, and we don't see it reflected in sort of staff data around turnover and things like that.
So I believe that I do I believe there's a huge challenge ahead in the organisation , delivering on what is a really, really important mission. And as I say, it is one person who feels that they, as Kate said earlier, one person who feels that they have to go outside the organisation to be heard is is one person too many and we are I case the executive team, the board I know, are absolutely committed to improving in that space.
So I believe that I do I believe there's a huge challenge ahead in the organisation , delivering on what is a really, really important mission. And as I say, it is one person who feels that they, as Kate said earlier, one person who feels that they have to go outside the organisation to be heard is is one person too many and we are I case the executive team, the board I know, are absolutely committed to improving in that space.
10:00
10:00
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
Yeah. As I said, I think, you know, for me trust trust is key alignment around Nyssa's purpose mission. The thing we are here to do for for GB, I think we have that in in spades in the organisation. You know, when I talk to colleagues in the business about why do they work for Niso, it's because they know it's an organisation where they can have impact. They're doing work that really matters and they're hugely proud of doing that work. But it is absolutely on us to make sure that people feel that they can be really honest and really open when they're thinking about the challenges that face us today and will face us as an organisation going forward, and that they believe that as they surface those things, we will listen, we will act, we will follow up.
10:00
10:00
10:00
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
Yeah, we we take it really, really seriously. I, you know, we've talked about the recommendations in the report. We've talked about our commitment to following up on them. I think one of the things that's very clear to me is, you know, the organisation, they will hold us to account if they don't feel that that we're acting, they will call us out. And I'm delighted about that. I think that is it is really important. We are going to be completely transparent with the plans that we put in place. We have kicked off our thinking, but we're out in the organisation today talking to colleagues.
Do these plans resonate? Do they make sense? Do you feel like it will make the difference.
Do these plans resonate? Do they make sense? Do you feel like it will make the difference.
10:00
10:00
10:00
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
I spoke to the trade unions? The day that the day before the report was published. I've been talking to them over the summer about some of the themes that we're seeing coming through in the organisation. We are very privileged to have a good, positive sort of engagement and relationship with the unions. They hold us to account. They feel like they can challenge us, and I hope that they would say that.
They see us respond.
They see us respond.
10:00
10:00
10:00
Mike Reader
-
-
Mike Reader
Thank you. Chair. The organisation sitting between households in the UK experiencing power cuts and blackouts this winter, has a toxic culture, has a leadership that didn't know it , had a toxic culture and has repeatedly missed critical deadlines. It has to meet Kate. How can people be assured their lights won't go off this winter?
10:00
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
Security resilience of the system is our number one priority. It has always been our number one priority and it continues to be as an organisation. We have a very broad mandate and we have a mandate that allows us to see from what does it take to keep the lights on today through to what will it take to keep the lights on, you know, way out into the future? And we spend all day, every day. Teams across the organisation focused.
10:00
10:00
10:00
10:02
Mike Reader
-
-
Mike Reader
So keeping the lights on and I will come back to grid connections in a second. Because if you've prepared for this meeting, this session, you will know that's my focus area. But I want to talk about Renumeration. Could you confirm you're both salaried employees working directly for Niso? Yes. And is your salary made public? Yes.
10:02
10:02
10:02
10:02
10:02
10:03
10:04
10:04
10:04
10:05
10:05
10:06
10:06
10:06
10:06
10:06
10:06
10:06
Mike Reader
-
-
Mike Reader
10:07
10:07
10:07
10:08
10:08
10:08
10:08
10:08
10:08
10:08
10:08
10:09
10:09
10:09
10:09
10:09
10:09
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
The change, the changes that need to happen. As the chief operating officer, yes, I do. We've got a very broad mandate as a team. As I say, everything from operating the the electricity system, keeping the lights on in real time, all the way through to planning the system out to to 2050. We spend a lot of time as a team, as an.
10:10
10:10
Mike Reader
-
-
Mike Reader
And I do believe we've got what we need to be successful. Okay, I'll come on to. connections and grid reform if that's okay. So we're now on the second. extension for phase two. Phase one offers 31st of October. Okay. Are we going to see that there's no more extensions? Those remaining 10% tricky ones .
10:11
10:11
10:12
10:12
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
Working very closely with the customer to make by Friday, they'll all be done. If the if the customer is ready to receive the offer, i.e. if the customer feels that we have given them everything they need to be confident that they can accept that offer, then we would be ready to be done. But actually, some of those conversations with a very small, you .
10:12
10:13
Mike Reader
-
-
Mike Reader
Important that we get them right so that the customer can accept that offer and we can move forward when you miss deadlines. Last time it was blamed on National Grid's design and engineering. Does Neso have actually any of you said earlier, if you don't have all the levers you need to pull to deliver clean power 2030 and this stuff, what conversations have you had with government about giving you all those .
10:14
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
Levers to make sure that you can get these things done? So if we're referring back to earlier for Clean Power 2030, like Nisa will never and should not have all of those levers. It is the delivery on the ground of, of big ticket infrastructure, which is delivered by the transmission owners. It's delivered by the nose. You also have all of the generation companies. delivering their.
10:14
10:15
10:15
10:15
10:15
10:15
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
Path, at what point did you become aware there were problems? So we are in. continuous and I, and I really do mean continuous daily. engagement across the network. companies niso the Ofgem teams on connection and the teams on on. connections such as the the ways of working on connections reform. So once we had the full Q published, we started to understand the scale of what was ahead of us.
collectively and getting offers out for those projects.
collectively and getting offers out for those projects.
10:17
10:17
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
The issuing of protected offers. And as we were sort of coming in to close on those, we started work on the phase one offers. And then that was when we started to. understand the how much more was going to need to be built. So with all of the batteries and projects that had successfully come into the Q with their.
10:17
10:17
10:17
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
Closely with the network companies. Do you underestimate the volume of work needed? Do you think we possibly had. underestimated how much re studying work would be done. It was only as we saw the volume of stuff that was meeting the protection clauses and therefore coming into the queue. We knew it was a risk, but it really crystallised as a risk. Once we had that full. visibility of the of the new pipeline, and we were translating that .
10:18
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
What what measures have you put in place to avoid this happening again? Yeah. So we've fundamentally changed our ways of working. We had historically, in the very early phases of connections reform, been working in, you know, less of a sort of a collaborative, ongoing way. So we've really brought that together. We've also. implemented some very rigorous sort of what I would refer to in operational terms as command style governance. So we're meeting twice a week at an executive. level where we, you know, we really hammer out the challenges. We have the decision makers in the room, we take decisions, we move the program forward, and then we meet again at an executive level with Desnos and Ofgem fortnightly.
So anything that needs escalating because it's a policy question. We now have a very fast route of people who are sufficiently in the detail to be decision .
So anything that needs escalating because it's a policy question. We now have a very fast route of people who are sufficiently in the detail to be decision .
10:20
10:20
10:21
10:21
10:21
10:21
10:21
10:21
10:21
10:22
10:22
10:22
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
The order in which you can do that, the complexities you're going to find. I'm confident that we've made really significant improvements to our processes. So the processes. themselves are more slick. We were having errors previously that we're managing to sort of remove now. So we're doing everything we can from a process .
10:22
10:22
10:23
10:23
10:23
10:23
10:24
10:24
10:24
10:24
10:24
10:24
10:24
10:24
10:24
10:24
10:25
10:25
10:25
10:25
10:26
10:26
10:26
10:26
10:26
10:26
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
Just to say, I mean, I think that the control room did a phenomenal job managing what was a really difficult set of circumstances. And I think you can see from the interim report, interim Ofgem report, the number of different things that were happening on the system and the scale of the challenge that they they had to manage. And I think, as I say, I think they did a terrific job doing that. And, you know, I and we have continued to support the investigation into it. And I'm sure, given the nature of that extreme event that went on for for a week with sort of repeated red weather warnings that there will be learnings for, for the energy industry, for, for us to make it more resilient going into the future in terms of sort of the dis a disconnect between executive management and control and teams.
I mean, I think what's also clear on the day is that the control room teams had all of the operational independence and decision making that they needed and support from the executive for the decisions that that they took. When we take a step back at sort of the broader conversations between executive leadership and the control room, back to the conversation we had earlier. I mean, that is something that we are reflecting on. How do we improve that? And forums like the ones that we have. established are ways that we can do that and ensure that to the extent people have concerns or issues or ideas that they want brought forward, that that there is a really clear path to do that.
But as we've said, it is also about the lived experience of those colleagues, right. And making sure that that in addition to the processes being there, that they feel that they .
I mean, I think what's also clear on the day is that the control room teams had all of the operational independence and decision making that they needed and support from the executive for the decisions that that they took. When we take a step back at sort of the broader conversations between executive leadership and the control room, back to the conversation we had earlier. I mean, that is something that we are reflecting on. How do we improve that? And forums like the ones that we have. established are ways that we can do that and ensure that to the extent people have concerns or issues or ideas that they want brought forward, that that there is a really clear path to do that.
But as we've said, it is also about the lived experience of those colleagues, right. And making sure that that in addition to the processes being there, that they feel that they .
10:29
10:29
10:30
10:30
10:30
10:30
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
But the the sort of the. conversations that that we would have and the issues that is looking at what are the tools and processes, like how is the system getting more complex and more challenging? So what are the driving factors within that? And it undoubtedly is getting more complex as a system to operate. And therefore, what are the tools, resources and capabilities? We need to make sure that those teams in the control room have and indeed outside the control room, because, you know, it arrives in the minute in the control room, how their ability to do their job is hugely influenced by the jobs done by all of the teams that sort of set up that day in advance of the outages that are in play, etc..
So we spend a lot of time making sure that we. understand what are the tools and.
So we spend a lot of time making sure that we. understand what are the tools and.
10:32
10:32
Bradley Thomas
-
-
Bradley Thomas
Bills, shift patterns, shift resource numbers, so that I can understand that. How many as a way, by way of an example, how many days per year might each of your executive team spend in the control room so that there is that really close affinity with the pressure that they're facing to develop your. understanding of the job and obligation that they've got to reduce that.
10:32
10:32
10:32
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
Year would you spend in the control room? So so I'm based in in Wokingham, right. So where the, the, the control room is, and I would try to drop in as much as I can into the control room, talk to the power system managers, the person who, who, who is managing it on the day to, to, to, to see how, how it is. We also have different sort of engagement forums where whereby we would do it, but Kate would spend more time in the control room. Craig, who's our director of system operations, even more time in the control room.
We we did a. process a while ago where we went in and even did a portion of a night shift, because that's really different as well, how the control room experience is that we also operate across two sites. And actually there's a different dynamic in both sites. The team sort of set up, etc. is different. So we would have gone and done that. So we're conscious of that. I mean, if I if I. reflect on the report, probably need to do more. And I think, you know, as I said, the report made for me as chief executive, me as an.
individual and as a leader, uncomfortable reading and made me want to, you know, lean in more and understand more from those. individuals and teams .
We we did a. process a while ago where we went in and even did a portion of a night shift, because that's really different as well, how the control room experience is that we also operate across two sites. And actually there's a different dynamic in both sites. The team sort of set up, etc. is different. So we would have gone and done that. So we're conscious of that. I mean, if I if I. reflect on the report, probably need to do more. And I think, you know, as I said, the report made for me as chief executive, me as an.
individual and as a leader, uncomfortable reading and made me want to, you know, lean in more and understand more from those. individuals and teams .
10:35
10:35
10:35
10:36
10:36
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
Through the year. So, you know, we're not we're not flagging any increased levels of risk this winter. I think the control room absolutely know when they need to issue warnings. And and you've seen them do that when the sort of the surplus is not as much as as they would like to see. So, you know, if at the start of the day, when they look to the peak, the market.
10:38
09:00
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
The sort of the position that the market has notified them is closer than they will like or they feel that they need in order to manage the system, they will issue an electricity margin notice. And, you know, we will issue them based on the operational realities that the control room face have done, will do, will continue to do. What we see is that there's an. increasing desire for even more transparency and more. explanation behind that. Maybe that's a back to the. conversation earlier, or point the chair raised earlier about explaining some of these things. I mean, there was a time when, you know, issue of a market notice would would go.
unnoticed in the wider public. But there's a huge interest in these things. And I suppose we are looking also at how do we. provide the wider information and context around what's happening on the system, but the control room and and the leaders in the control room will take the required operational decisions based on the operational .
unnoticed in the wider public. But there's a huge interest in these things. And I suppose we are looking also at how do we. provide the wider information and context around what's happening on the system, but the control room and and the leaders in the control room will take the required operational decisions based on the operational .
09:01
09:01
09:02
09:02
09:02
09:02
09:02
09:02
09:02
09:02
09:02
09:02
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
Decline a bonus this year given the performance of Niso? I think that the performance of Niso my performance should be looked at over the full suite of things that that we have delivered. And as I said, one of the metrics that I can point to is that the regulatory assessment of Nico's delivery was that we met.
09:03
09:03
09:03
09:03
09:03
09:03
Lizzi Collinge
-
-
Lizzi Collinge
Thank you, Lizzie Collins. Thank you chair. So we've talked quite a lot about the day to day stress that the control room is under. And the report looked at that day to day stress. Earlier, you. described the stress that the system was under due to the extreme heat this summer as extreme. I think you may have used the word unprecedented. I'm not sure but what the Eversheds report also.
identified is that your staff know that this is actually much more likely to be the new normal, that going.
identified is that your staff know that this is actually much more likely to be the new normal, that going.
09:05
09:05
Lizzi Collinge
-
-
Lizzi Collinge
As someone like we've just seen, given climate change is much more likely than it used to be. And the report. identified high levels of stress and concern within Niso about the longer term. picture as well, not simply these extremes. So what are you going to do to give your staff confidence that the long term picture, in the long .
09:05
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
Term, they will be able to deliver their roles and be able to keep the lights on? Yeah. So, you know, we do spend a lot of time with the. organisation talking about how the nature of the energy system is changing and how that changes what is required of our teams in the control room, sort of day in, day out. I think we can point to. areas where it is becoming more challenging in real time to operate the system. Sometimes we talk about the volume of actions that have to be taken in the control room, and to paint a picture for you.
We used to take maybe. 35,000 actions a year, and now we can take. 15,000 actions a day. That gives you a sense of just the sort of the volume of what our teams are dealing with. We spend a good amount of time trying to sort of understand that and prepare and plan for it. The good news is that, you know.
We used to take maybe. 35,000 actions a year, and now we can take. 15,000 actions a day. That gives you a sense of just the sort of the volume of what our teams are dealing with. We spend a good amount of time trying to sort of understand that and prepare and plan for it. The good news is that, you know.
09:07
09:07
09:08
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
Do you have confidence in the rest of the. system that it will meet the challenge? I do have confidence. I think we've seen incredible. progress over the last. 5 or 6 years. It was back when we. established the electricity system operator as a ring fenced part of National Grid, back in 29 that we first started to talk about over over a number of years. What would it take to be able to. operate a clean power system, a very. renewables driven power system. And we've seen incredible. innovation in the 6 or 7 years since then to solve those challenges such that now in, you know, today .
09:09
09:09
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
Imminent risks to your operations? So we think about. seven big. operability challenges that we've been talking publicly about for a really long time. We publish an annual Operability strategy. report that. explores those risks and talks about what Niso needs to do, but also what market needs to do, where we need to see regulatory or policy changes to sort of . mitigate and manage those risks. Can you name some of those risks? Yeah. So a good. example would be, you know, as you take off and as we have seen a decline in big thermal. Fossil fueled generation on the system.
And as we've seen renewables come on, one of the. characteristics of a of a fossil based system is inertia. And we've had to find innovative ways to replace that inertia in the system. We saw the market.
And as we've seen renewables come on, one of the. characteristics of a of a fossil based system is inertia. And we've had to find innovative ways to replace that inertia in the system. We saw the market.
09:11
09:11
09:11
09:11
09:12
09:12
09:12
Lizzi Collinge
-
-
Lizzi Collinge
A bit less on offshore wind and and depends on shorter duration energy storage versus a further flex and renewables pathway, which focuses much more on offshore wind flexibility. On the demand side, longer duration energy storage. Now, you have said to us. previously that it's not one or the other. I would suggest then that pathway is probably not the best metaphor, because by definition, you choose one or the other.
09:13
09:13
Lizzi Collinge
-
-
Lizzi Collinge
Are you clearer now than you were when you came here a couple of years ago? As to where the focus will be on that Clean Power. 2030 pathway, will you be focusing? Will the system be focusing more on on carbon capture and storage, or will it be focusing more on the further flex and renewables pathway? Are you clear about where we're at and where .
09:13
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
We're going and how that impacts your organisation? Yeah. So where clarity starts to emerge for us is the projects that actually hold a connection offer to connect to the system. And, you know, we can we now have a picture of everything that's in the current queue that is likely to connect. Of course, there remain, though, policy. choices for government that will. inform to what. extent we end up.
deploying more of those. technologies like CSE or. hydrogen to power. Those are policy decisions. To the extent those decisions are taken and then they flow .
deploying more of those. technologies like CSE or. hydrogen to power. Those are policy decisions. To the extent those decisions are taken and then they flow .
09:14
Lizzi Collinge
-
-
Lizzi Collinge
Through, you know, we would we would ultimately see that show up in a connection to the system. So you noted that the new dispatch pathway would leave Britain more exposed to a volatile international gas prices, because gas would still be used. 47% of the time. I don't have a time frame for that stat, though. Do you have a view on which is the best pathway? Is there a pathway that makes it easier or harder . for your.
09:15
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
Organisation to manage? I don't think there's an easier or harder. I think, you know, there are, as we talked about, there are sort of there's a level of flexibility that exists in both pathways. There are a set of. operational challenges that we already think about and will solve for in either pathway, sort of irrespective of what what. connects to the system. So I'm. confident that sort of whatever the. trajectory with the time and the and the focus, we will be able to, you know, continue to operate a secure and resilient system. That was a big test in putting together the Clean Power.
2030 advice that we proposed to government. And then.
2030 advice that we proposed to government. And then.
09:17
09:17
09:17
09:17
09:17
09:17
Torcuil Crichton
-
-
Torcuil Crichton
Talk very, very briefly, please. Just a quick question on the back of that, on connections, on community connections, which don't seem to be a priority at all because no new community schemes will get into the queue as the queue stands just now. And this committee has recommended that that shouldn't be. agnostic about community connections, because they're the best way of getting neighborhoods that are going to be next to this huge infrastructure to benefit from it.
Have you .
Have you .
09:18
09:18
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
So it is not for us to decide to. prioritise one type of connection based on sort of ownership structure over another. That is a government policy . decision if they want that to happen. Notwithstanding that, we recognise everything you said around the benefit of community schemes and their ability to get communities more engaged in the energy transition and potentially. understand better and be more accepting of energy. infrastructure and the benefits that it can bring.
So, so those things are true because of that, we are looking to see, are there things what we cannot.
So, so those things are true because of that, we are looking to see, are there things what we cannot.
09:20
09:20
09:20
09:20
09:20
09:20
09:20
09:21
09:21
09:21
09:21
09:21
09:21
09:21
09:21
09:21
09:21
09:21
09:21
09:22
09:22
09:22
09:22
09:23
09:23
09:23
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
Do you feel supported by the government enough? So, yes, I suppose we don't feel that we're holding the Clean Power 2030 baby. I mean, that is a government policy that, you know, they have set out and they own. We play an important part in enabling bits of that to deliver. But as I said earlier, there are many other parts of industry, Enabling bits of that to deliver. But as I said earlier, there are many other parts of industry, government, regulator, etc. that need to to do things in order to deliver clean power by by 2030.
I think one of the key things for us is a, how do we make sure that we keep the lights on today? And we talked a good bit about that and making sure that that is secure. But thinking then in the long term about how do you think about designing an energy. system that works for Great Britain? And that is, how do you about thinking through the infrastructure that's needed, the impact that that will have on, on communities? How do you think about the. affordability of building out anything that that you want to do and reliance on imported fossil fuels?
And through doing the Strategic Spatial Energy plan and the regional energy strategic plans. I think that is the mechanism through which we can work with government to help inform government around some of those policy choices that that they need to make. But in transforming an energy system, you do have all of those things at play. And, you know, we're seeing in real time the cost of energy being really high up the agenda, if not at the top of the.
agenda from a public point of view. And .
I think one of the key things for us is a, how do we make sure that we keep the lights on today? And we talked a good bit about that and making sure that that is secure. But thinking then in the long term about how do you think about designing an energy. system that works for Great Britain? And that is, how do you about thinking through the infrastructure that's needed, the impact that that will have on, on communities? How do you think about the. affordability of building out anything that that you want to do and reliance on imported fossil fuels?
And through doing the Strategic Spatial Energy plan and the regional energy strategic plans. I think that is the mechanism through which we can work with government to help inform government around some of those policy choices that that they need to make. But in transforming an energy system, you do have all of those things at play. And, you know, we're seeing in real time the cost of energy being really high up the agenda, if not at the top of the.
agenda from a public point of view. And .
09:26
09:27
09:27
09:27
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
In the priority? Maybe in the in the narrative. But I think when we looked at Clean Power 2030, we gave the advice to government. One of the things we looked at was on a sort of system wide basis. Was it more or less expensive than not going for that target? And the answer at the time was that they were broadly equivalent in terms of total system costs in the 2030 target. I think one of the key things that we reflect on is at that time, the gas price was 100 pence a therm. And indeed, we faced some criticism for that being too high an assumption to have gas this morning, I think was.
217 pence. The term with no prospect of it coming down any time soon. So what clean power 2030 or a. transition off imported gas and onto more. homegrown generation, be that renewable or nuclear does. provide Great Britain with more. control over the input costs to its energy system, and therefore I'm not. I suppose I don't think that the two are mutually.
217 pence. The term with no prospect of it coming down any time soon. So what clean power 2030 or a. transition off imported gas and onto more. homegrown generation, be that renewable or nuclear does. provide Great Britain with more. control over the input costs to its energy system, and therefore I'm not. I suppose I don't think that the two are mutually.
09:29
09:29
09:29
Wera Hobhouse
-
-
Wera Hobhouse
Imperative at the moment is to address the affordability crisis. And do you believe the government has recognised that and therefore the policies, because we've just had some decisions, are just government decisions. You know, prioritizing community energy is ultimately a policy thing. Therefore, you just following policy decisions. Do you feel that that needs to get that policy direction from the government? You know, in the heat .
09:30
Speaker 1
-
Speaker 1
Of the moment, because, you know, a lot of things collide together. Yeah. So we work really, really closely with both government and Ofgem across a range of things. I mean, Kate talked about the, the very close working for example, on connection offers, right. And that is fortnightly meeting with decision makers at NES and Ofgem around it. On the longer term issues such as strategic spatial energy plan. We also work really, really closely with them. So I think we have a really good relationship with them. I think that we feel that we have the ability to to raise issues and input those into the policy debate.
And I think that, you know, as far as government policy making is is.
And I think that, you know, as far as government policy making is is.
09:31
09:31
09:31
09:31
09:31
09:32
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
Regulation problem to make flexibility really work? I think it's largely getting the the, the market signal. So the routes to market, the, the ability for, for that. flexibility to be brought forward, to be valued. appropriately and then to have access to the markets to, to. extract that value. There are, you know, important. coordination questions. How do you make those markets effective across the. multiple players? And I think there's a lot of focus on that with the flexibility commissioner, the market.
09:33
09:33
09:33
Wera Hobhouse
-
-
Wera Hobhouse
09:33
Speaker 2
-
Speaker 2
In terms of in order to make that flexibility work properly? I think there's a huge amount of work going on, and the reform national. pricing work that government is currently leading on. We really look forward to, you know, that work. delivering clarity and. conclusions on market design going forward that will unlock things like the value of flexibility, but provide all of the .
09:34
09:34
09:34
09:34
09:35
09:35
09:35
09:35
09:36
09:36