European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Baroness Morgan of Cotes Excerpts

Ping Pong: House of Commons
Monday 13th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

No, I will not give way.

On the more general point about votes—I say this with some personal interest—we should not underestimate the mechanisms at Parliament’s disposal to ensure that its voice is heard. To paraphrase the wise words of Lord Howard of Lympne during the debate on the amendment in the other place, this place “will have its say” and “will have its way.” We do not need to put this into legislation, and making legislation when none is required only benefits lawyers.

[Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend is a Member of long standing in this House, and he recognises—as, I think, other hon. Members do—that Parliament will find a way to have a say, whether a deal is reached or whether no deal is reached. If he recognises that, does he agree that it would be better for the Government officially to recognise that position from the Dispatch Box?

[Mr Davis]

I reiterate the point: of course, Parliament can, if it wishes, have a vote and debate on any issue. That is a matter for Parliament. It is not for a Minister to try to constrain that, least of all this Minister, who has used those opportunities before this day. But let me get to the point behind this. I agree with my right hon. Friend, but what we cannot have—I am coming to the second aspect of this amendment—is any suggestion that the votes in either House will overturn the result of the referendum. That is the key point.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Baroness Morgan of Cotes Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 1st February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con)]

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for calling me to speak in this historic debate. Although he is not in his place on the Government Benches, I want to pay tribute to my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), my constituency neighbour, for his wonderful speech. Boy, does he show us how it is all done.

This is a short Bill with huge ramifications for all of us for years to come. Like other Conservative Members, I campaigned for remain, but I accept the democratic vote, and I think we should allow the article 50 notice to be triggered. I agree with those who have said that if we do not do so, the crisis in our democracy that this Bill’s defeat would lead to will help no one.

Yesterday, the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union said that the outcome he wanted was a country that was

“stronger, fairer, more united and more outward-looking”.—[Official Report, 31 January 2017; Vol. 620, c. 821.]

I agree with him, and the Government’s negotiations must lead to that outcome. As colleagues have said, Parliament must be involved, not just at the start of this process, but throughout and particularly at the end. The manner of the vote at the end of the process is important. Ministers will have noted the amendments that have been tabled about that parliamentary vote, and I hope that they will add to the Prime Minister’s words about that, either in the closing speech tonight or in Committee next week.

I welcome the fact that a White Paper is to be published, and particularly the Prime Minister’s announcement that it will be published tomorrow, but I have been clear that the Bill and the White Paper, which will set out the Prime Minister’s 12 pillars, are separate and should be considered as such.

For me, the tests leading us to a successful new relationship with the European Union are threefold. First, leaving must not undermine our economy. It must not unduly affect the jobs, household finances and financial security of our constituents. I hope we will get a chance to debate that as part of the discussions on the White Paper. Secondly, leaving must not undermine our constitution. That was tested in the courts, and I welcome the decision of the High Court, which has been upheld by the Supreme Court. Finally, leaving must not undermine our values as a country. I thought that the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) spoke very powerfully about values, as have other Members on both sides of the House, yesterday and today. Upholding values is up to us as Members of Parliament, the Government and Ministers.

I have to be honest: never in my adult life have I felt so concerned about the stability and state of the world in which we live. With the Brexit vote, we have added an extra layer of uncertainty to our world. However, I want to take the Secretary of State at his word when he said yesterday:

“This is just the beginning”.—[Official Report, 31 January 2017; Vol. 620, c. 819.]

To paraphrase a great former Prime Minister who believed in a united Europe, the Bill is not the beginning of the end, but may be the end of the beginning, of the Brexit process.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Baroness Morgan of Cotes Excerpts

Tuesday 31st January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

No.

In talking about democracy, it is vital, as was pointed out in the brilliant speech by my right hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset (Sir Oliver Letwin), that we do not attempt to revisit the decision that the British people made last year. I thought it was instructive that the former leader of the Liberal Democrats, the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Mr Clegg), was so dismissive of the result and of the debate during the referendum campaign. A previous leader of the Liberal Democrat party said on referendum night:

“In. Out. When the British people have spoken you do what they command. Either you believe in democracy or you don’t. When democracy speaks we obey. All of us do…Any people who retreat into ‘we’re coming back for a second one’—they don’t believe in democracy.”

It is a tragedy that the party that is called Liberal Democrat is scarcely liberal and, now, anti-democratic.

It would be harmful for our democracy at a time when we are all concerned about the rise of raucous populism—[Interruption.] I note the response from Scottish National party Members, who are the prime traders in raucous populism and the politics of division. If we were now to reject the considered decision of 17.4 million of our fellow citizens, we would only feed the disaffection with the democratic process that has led to unfortunate results in other countries. My right hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset was right when he said that we should respect the result and honour the mandate.

A number of people are now asking for White Papers, scrutiny and greater clarity, but we have already had the promise of a White Paper, and a 6,000-word speech from our Prime Minister. We have had clarity in all these issues. Those people will not take yes for an answer; they are seeking not clarity but obfuscation, delay and a dilution of the democratic mandate of the British people.

[Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con)]

A 6,000-word speech from my right hon. Friend would be a very short speech. I want to challenge him on the issue of the White Paper. He and many others who campaigned and voted to leave want to take back control. They want control to rest in this sovereign Parliament. Does he agree, therefore, that it is right that the terms on which the Government want to start the negotiations should be presented in a White Paper to this Parliament and not just in a speech at Lancaster House?

[Michael Gove]

The Prime Minister has already agreed that a White Paper will be published, and rightly so. The Secretary of State has said from the Dispatch Box that it will come as soon as possible. I have enormous respect for my right hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan), and I shall return in a moment to an argument that she has made outside this place.

Many of those who have called for a White Paper or for clarification rarely outline what they think the right course of action is. It is very rare to hear a positive case being put forward. Instead, we repeatedly hear attempts to rewrite what happened in the referendum. The right hon. Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) tried to present the referendum debate as though it had somehow been inconclusive on questions such as our membership of the single market or the customs union, but, as my right hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset said, we could not have been clearer on behalf of the leave campaign that we were leaving the single market. It was also made perfectly clear that we could not have trade deals in the future without leaving the customs union.

--- Later in debate ---

[James Berry (Kingston and Surbiton) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams).

This House was right to decide in 2015, with just 53 votes to the contrary, that an in/out referendum should determine Britain’s continued membership of the EU. The referendum was the biggest exercise in democracy since the 1992 general election. The majority voted to leave and this House, this seat of democracy, would set a worrying precedent by frustrating that result tomorrow.

When I went into the polling station with my wife on 23 June, I did so knowing, as I had told many voters in the previous days and weeks, that our votes would count and that it was important to vote. It was important because there would be no going back and the result of the referendum would settle the question of whether or not we remained in the EU. Ironically, given the position of his party today, it was the leader of the Liberal Democrats who said:

“there is one thing on which I can agree with the Leave campaign: This is a once-in-a-generation decision.”

The very high turnout in the referendum suggests that that is what the majority of people understood.

For all the arguments advanced now about binding and advisory referendums, not one person told me that they voted on 23 June thinking that Parliament might override the result at some later stage. They were right to have that confidence, because that is what they were told by multiple sources: the Conservative manifesto; the Government’s official referendum leaflet; the leave campaign; the remain campaign; and leaders of political parties. In those circumstances, it would be unconscionable to block the result of the referendum. As the hon. Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting) said in a powerful speech, that is simply not an option.

We are being urged to go back on those clear averments, by a minority of people—and I think by a minority of people who voted to remain—who want to find a way to block a result that they, like me, find disappointing. I want to explain why I disagree with the four main arguments they make.

[Nicky Morgan]

Is it not ironic that the Liberal Democrats, whose second name is “Democrats”, want to block the democratic decision—much though I disagreed with it —taken last June?

[James Berry]

That point is not lost on me or the House.

The first objection is that MPs in constituencies said to have voted remain are obliged to respect the result in their constituency and block article 50. We are told that we should act not as representatives in the sense that Burke instructed but as delegates. There are several problems with that argument. The first is that the referendum was a straightforward exercise in direct democracy applicable to the UK as a whole. The rules were not for a two-stage electoral college process including a vote in this House. If those had been the rules, the votes would have had to be counted on a constituency basis, which they certainly were not in England—it is likely that my constituency voted to remain, but we will never know. In practice, had those been the rules, it is estimated that the leave campaign would have won by a country mile—by more than 2:1. To get around this inconvenience, a second main argument is advanced: that all those MPs in seats that voted to remain should vote to block article 50 anyway in the national interest. To those arguments, I simply say: you cannot have your cake and eat it.

The third main argument, reflected in one of the amendments—one with which I respectfully disagree—is that the referendum gave no mandate to leave the single market. Whatever else can be said about the leave campaign —and I have a lot to say about the leave campaign—it was certainly clear about taking back control of immigration policy, laws and EU spending, none of which would be possible as a member of the single market. EU leaders said it at the time, leave campaigners said it, remain campaigners absolutely said it, and I know I said it, because staying in the single market was one of the main reasons I voted remain, knowing what a leave vote would entail.

The fourth main argument is that MPs who like me voted to remain have a duty to hold fast with that view and vote to block article 50: we were convinced that the best thing for the country was to remain in the EU last June, so what has changed? I say nothing has changed. I made a careful decision, having considered the arguments on both sides, and decided that it was in the best interests of my constituents, many of whom work in the City of London, and of the country to remain in the EU. I recognise, however, one straightforward fact: my side lost. We in the House are nothing else if not democrats. The democratic process of the referendum, set in train by a vote in this House, has run its course and delivered its result, and in this country, we respect the results of the democratic process.

A good number of my constituents who voted to remain have in the last few days and hours asked me to vote to block article 50. They will be disappointed by my vote on the Bill. I respect their views, I understand their desire to remain a member of the EU and I share their concerns about the uncertainty inherent in the article 50 process, but the consistently high turnouts in my constituency tell me that my constituents care about democracy. The majority of my constituents, and the majority of the people in the UK, would not expect their MP to try to obstruct the result of a democratic process just because that MP was on the side that lost.

I have come to the clear conclusion that the right thing to do—indeed, the only thing to do—as a democrat is to accept the result of the referendum, to avoid prolonging this damaging uncertainty and to focus on arguing for what I think is the best relationship with the EU once we have left, both for my country and my constituents. For me, that means the closest possible relationship with the EU consistent with the referendum result, and it means a liberal, tolerant, outward-looking, internationalist Britain that leads the world in free trade, the rule of law, the fight against terrorism, international development, research and innovation and environmental protection, all in close co-operation with our EU friends and allies. That was the positive vision set out by the Prime Minister in her Lancaster House speech, and she has my full support in seeking to deliver it, but she can do so only if we vote to trigger article 50 tomorrow—the inevitable and required result of the EU referendum.

Article 50

Baroness Morgan of Cotes Excerpts

Tuesday 24th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

I have been at this Dispatch Box, on statements alone, five times in the past five months, and I am at great risk of boring the House. I will just repeat to the hon. Lady what I have said already: we will deliver the maximum possible information and the maximum possible debate.

[Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con)]

This House should be grateful to both the Supreme Court and the High Court for asserting parliamentary sovereignty and allowing us to have a say on the article 50 process. I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt), who has said that he will vote in favour of article 50—I will too. In the spirit of the question by my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith), who called for a swift passage of the Bill—I agree with him—does the Secretary of State agree that when the House voted for the motion in December, it was not just in relation to the 31 March deadline but in relation to the publication of a plan? I suggest to him that the passage of the Bill will be swifter if a White Paper is published and debates happen on that, too, and the article 50 process is separate.

[Mr Davis]

I hear what my right hon. Friend says. I am becoming very boring in reiterating the same point—that we will provide as much information as we possibly can, subject to not undermining our position.

The Government's Plan for Brexit

Baroness Morgan of Cotes Excerpts

Wednesday 7th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing me to speak in this debate.

Let me make it clear at the start, for the benefit of Members and of the Whip on the Bench, that I intend to support both the motion and amendment (a). I am very pleased that the Government have accepted the motion. This is the first time that they have accepted that Parliament should have a say on the triggering of article 50 and a role in scrutiny of the Government’s plans for Brexit.

We live in a representative democracy. It is right that Members in all parts of the House, many of whom have spoken today, act for both the 52% and the 48%, as has been said today. I want the ability to speak up for the students in my constituency, the university academics, the farmers, the businesses, the NHS workers and everybody else who lives there. I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove) that the Government should give urgent clarity and confirmation to EU citizens living here that they may stay. We will have the moral upper hand at the start of negotiations if we have given that clarity.

Today’s debate has shown that we should have started the debate a number of months ago. Although I might disagree with what my right hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset (Sir Oliver Letwin) said, it is important that he has said it and we are able to debate those issues. I want a proper commitment to the plan, as we have seen, and a vote on the timetable. It is not good enough that these things are dragged out of the Government by Opposition day motions. I am pleased that it has happened, but I wish the Government were taking more of the initiative.

The Government plan can set out the high-level overall objectives. I might disagree with what my right hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Mr Lilley) said, but he said it more clearly than I have heard it said by anybody with his beliefs. Does the Minister agree with what my right hon. Friend said? The Secretary of State was right when he said in his opening speech that “it is also important that we do not close off options before we absolutely have to.”

As the Labour motion says,

“there should be no disclosure of material that could be reasonably judged to damage the UK in any negotiations to depart from the European Union after Article 50 has been triggered”.

The trouble with having “no running commentary” from the Government is that it has been replaced by running commentary based on notes seen in Downing Street, ambassadors’ private conversations with the Foreign Secretary and Nissan executives’ conversations with those in Downing Street.

It is also important that we have a timetable. I have been very clear previously that I want the Government to get on with triggering article 50. I see that as the start of healing the rift between Parliament and people that we have seen result from 23 June. I do not have a problem with voting for the amendment, but I understand and respect those Members who do. I do not think it is the same as having an Act of Parliament, as the High Court ruled, and I hope the Minister will be very clear that approving the amendment is not the same as having legislation.

We are going to have a wholly new relationship with the EU on or before March 2019. We are going to have a wholly new place in the world, and I want this country to be outward-looking and forward-facing. Brexit is going to affect our economy, our foreign trade, our foreign policies, our trade policies and our immigration policy. How the Government conduct the next two years will say much about our constitution and our values as a country.

Parliament has to rise to the occasion, and I have to say that neither Front-Bench speech today quite got there. Contributions from other Members of the House have got closer to showing an appreciation of the magnitude of what we are doing. If we are going to argue solely about the process, I think we will be letting our constituents down. It is the substance of the final deal we agree with the EU, and the final trade agreements we have with the rest of the world, that will shape Britain’s place in the world.

We need Ministers—from the Prime Minister downwards—to inspire as well as engage on these issues and to be clear about what 2019 and beyond will look like for this country. I look forward to further such debates.

Article 50

Baroness Morgan of Cotes Excerpts

Monday 7th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con)]

Is there not a way to cut through the debate and to start to heal the rift between Parliament and the people? The Secretary of State has an opportunity this afternoon to say that there will be a one-line Bill authorising the triggering of article 50, which would be introduced to this House and then pass through the House of Lords. I would urge him to bring that Bill forward soon to test the will of this House and the House of Lords, which I think will approve the passing of that Bill, and we can then get on with negotiating the exit.

[Mr Davis]

I hear what my right hon. Friend says, and I have to say I am very tempted, but what I also have to say is that this whole issue is a matter of extreme importance, and we do have to complete the test in the courts that is necessary to establish the law.

Parliamentary Scrutiny of Leaving the EU

Baroness Morgan of Cotes Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con)]

I must disagree with my hon. Friend. I have the manifesto with me, too, because I shall refer to it in my remarks. It very clearly states:

“We say: yes to the Single Market”—

and there is no mention in the wording that my hon. Friend cited of there being an interim period in which Britain remains in the single market.

[Sir William Cash]

My right hon. Friend has, I think, a slight problem here. I understand from remarks made by Members on both sides of the House that when we repeal the 1972 Act, as we intend to do, some will not want to resist it—I see my right hon. Friend nodding her head, for which I am grateful. It is simply not possible for us to be in the single market on the one hand and on the other hand repeal the laws that are implicit in the 1972 Act. We cannot be in the single market and repeal the jurisdiction of that Act.

[Nicky Morgan]

rose—

[Mr Grieve]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir William Cash]

It does not, because I said implicitly that we would not be able to go into the European economic area for that very reason. The British people have spoken in the referendum, and everyone in the Chamber says that they respect the views of the British people, yet at the same time we hear these weasel words that somehow imply that it is possible to leave the European Union, repeal the European Communities Act 1972 and still remain within the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. That is just nonsense—political and legal nonsense.

[Nicky Morgan]

rose—

[Mr Grieve]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), who will, I suspect, play a key part in scrutinising, on behalf of this House, the negotiations with the EU over the next few months, years and decades.

I have managed to avoid debating the European Union, though debating it has been a customary habit of many members of my party for a number of years; I did so by becoming a Minister, although I was the EU budget Minister and enjoyed undergoing scrutiny by my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash) as Chairman of the European Scrutiny Committee.

Let me make it very clear, as hon. Members in all parts of the Chamber have, that although I wanted us to remain a member of the European Union, I accept the result of 23 June. That is why I think that the Government amendment can be supported by everyone who has spoken so far. However, once the article 50 negotiations are completed, we, from outside the European Union, will have a wholly different relationship with EU member states. That is why I also support the Labour motion—because it recognises that leaving the EU is the defining issue facing the United Kingdom. It was the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) who said that the decisions that we take over the next few months and years in Parliament will shape this country for decades and generations to come. That is a responsibility that we all need to take very seriously, and that we should undertake, as the shadow Secretary of State said, without point scoring and partisanship.

Clearly, the key question will be about access to the single market, and balancing that with the issues around freedom of movement and immigration control. I was struck by the fact that the words “single market” were nowhere in the Secretary of State’s statement to Parliament on 5 September; I made that point to him them. Not mentioning it will clearly not be tenable. The relationship between the single market and freedom of movement was not on the ballot paper, and it is what we will be discussing in this House for months to come.

As I have already said to my hon. Friend the Member for Stone, the Conservative party’s 2015 manifesto is clear about what we want from Europe. We—that is, all Members of Parliament elected on the Conservative party manifesto in 2015—say yes to the single market. The Prime Minister, in her speech to the Conservative party conference, said very clearly that we want

“to give British companies the maximum freedom to trade with and operate in the Single Market”.

For anyone to say that the single market will not be part of the discussions, and that just because we are repealing the European Communities Act 1972 we will not discuss the single market, is not correct.

[Sir William Cash]

Does my right hon. Friend accept that it is impossible for us to repeal the 1972 Act on the one hand, which is the endgame, and on the other to remain subject to the jurisdiction of the European Court within the single market? We trade into the single market, but we are not in the single market; that is the point.

[Nicky Morgan]

I thank my hon. Friend very much indeed for that intervention. The European Communities Act 1972 was introduced a long time before the single market was envisaged by, as we have heard, a former Prime Minister. As someone who was engaged in commercial negotiations for 16 years before I came to the House, I think that anything is possible in a negotiation, as the former Deputy Prime Minister said.

I want to make three quick points. First, I want to pick up the point made by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke). I was concerned to hear that last week in an interview given by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster that the Cabinet had not been consulted on the timing of the triggering of article 50, and that that had been decided by a small group of people as something to be announced at the Conservative party conference. We have been arguing that Parliament must be involved in scrutiny decisions, but the Cabinet must be kept fully informed of key decisions on our leaving the European Union.

Secondly, we heard from the right hon. Member for Leeds Central about the status of EU citizens. I was heartbroken to receive an email from a constituent—I suspect that it is not the only one that I or, indeed, many of us will receive—who has moved here from elsewhere in the EU. She has gone through a difficult court case on the custody of her children, and has settled in the United Kingdom. There are restrictions on where those children can travel within the EU. She said to me

“Yet as EU citizens, it is becoming increasingly clear that it will become near impossible for us to continue living in the UK. I, for one, will have great difficulty finding employment”—

she has a PhD, awarded here—

“and using my expertise because I am not British.”

That is not the country that I want to see. I do not think that this is the country that the Government or Parliament wants to see. That is not the message that we want to give about this country, which has been built on the skills of those who have come here for generations. I suspect that many of us in the Chamber are here because our forefathers moved to this country and took advantage of the safety that we provide.

Finally, those who are asking questions about the scrutiny by Parliament of these fundamental negotiations are not trying to thwart the will of the people. I resent that implication—I resent it from newspapers, I resent it from Ministers, and I resent it from the briefers and spinners at the centre of Government. It only encourages me to ask more questions, and I will work with colleagues in the Government and colleagues across the House to ask those questions. It is Parliament’s duty to scrutinise the Executive. I have stood at the Dispatch Box, and I have been scrutinised by Parliament—rightly so. Now I am on the Back Benches I will scrutinise the Executive. Our constituents send us to Westminster as Members of Parliament to ask the questions that they cannot put to Ministers themselves. Colleagues, we must take every opportunity to ask those questions to get the best possible deal for this country as we leave the European Union.

Exiting the European Union

Baroness Morgan of Cotes Excerpts

Monday 5th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

I will start by saying that we got our instructions from the British people to do this in the first place, but the hon. Lady raises some serious issues. My views on the importance of parliamentary accountability have not changed just because I have moved forward four Benches. I still believe that we should be as open with Parliament as possible while in negotiations. For example, I am appearing before the Foreign Affairs Committee in a week or two’s time, which is an undertaking that I made some time ago, and I am doing the same with the relevant House of Lords Committee.

As for employment rights, a large component of the people who voted to leave the European Union could be characterised as the British industrial working class. It is no part of my brief to undermine their rights—full stop.

[Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con)]

I welcome the Secretary of State to his new role. He is absolutely right that we must respect the result of 23 June and that people want further controls on immigration and do not have confidence in our previous immigration policy. I do not know whether it was deliberate, but two words seemed to be missing from his statement: single market. The heart of the matter, about which we will be arguing over the coming months and years, is the balance between access to the single market and the freedom of people to come to this country. When will the Government set out their view on that fundamental point?

[Mr Davis]

I am afraid that I start from a disagreement with my right hon. Friend; the simple truth is that, as I said earlier, the negotiation over free trade with the European Union will be to the benefit of both sides—it will be beneficial to us and to the European countries. The question of immigration and the control of immigration is a very high priority for this Government, as the Prime Minister has made plain on many occasions. I do not agree with the fundamental tenet of my right hon. Friend’s question; I do not think that that is a natural, necessary trade-off. The negotiation has to be very much about what is to the mutual benefit of this country and the European Union—full stop.