Road Pricing

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Harris of Haringey

Monday 29th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

It is concerning to see such large rises in insurance. Officials are monitoring it. The Treasury is unlikely to intervene in what is a private market. However, I will write to my noble friend, because there are various helplines and advisers who can sometimes help people to find cheaper car insurance.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister is impressive in her attempts to explain away the huge fiscal holes that this Government are digging for themselves and for future Governments. Can she comment on the rather strange leaflet that many residents of London have received, apparently from the Conservative mayoral candidate, purporting to be a penalty notice for a road pricing scheme that does not exist and is not planned by the current Mayor of London? Given that the Government are so opposed to this, does the Conservative mayoral candidate in London not know what Conservative policy is, or is it that she has enormous faith in the ability of the London government to deliver something that the Minister has said is incredibly complicated?

HMRC: Tax Returns

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Harris of Haringey

Wednesday 10th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Baroness may be aware that the HMRC made a very targeted intervention on overpayments over the summer, to enable a backlog that had arisen to be repaid. That is now cleared, and the self-assessment helpline prioritises queries relating to returns, repayments and other complex matters.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, after Making Tax Digital, the HMRC expects small businesses and self-employed people to file returns and so on using approved accounting software. What consideration has HMRC given to the Horizon accounting software scandal? What steps are being taken to ensure that such software does not contain unexpected flaws?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

There is actually a very competitive market in software that is able to speak to the HMRC system. No flaws have yet been found, but of course one is always aware of that.

Rail Dispute: Michael Ford QC

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Harris of Haringey

Wednesday 29th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the legal opinion from Michael Ford QC on the legal powers of the Secretary of State for Transport in respect of the rail dispute.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, we have noted the advice from Michael Ford QC. Train operators are required to agree how they manage industrial relations risk, including risks from industrial action, through their contracts with the department. Before incurring costs such as pay increases or changes to terms and conditions, the Secretary of State needs to be satisfied that these are affordable and in the long-term interests of the taxpayer, and take steps to protect the public purse.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that reply, as she clearly accepts the legal advice obtained by the Trades Union Congress on this point. However, it gives the lie to statements made by successive Ministers—including her noble friend in the answers he just gave. Where there is responsibility, the Government dodge it; where there is law, they tend to ignore it and mislead the public and Parliament. What is the concern of the Government in this dispute other than petty party-political manoeuvring? When will they take serious action? What is their strategy for resolving this in the interests of rail users and, ultimately, the country? So far, we have seen no sign of that, despite the clear legal obligations and responsibilities placed on the Transport Secretary.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

There were many questions there, to which I will try to respond. The real prize in all this, for both rail passengers and rail freight, is long-term transformation to a modern and efficient seven-day railway, where services align with demand and adapt to current patterns of travelling and rail freight, from the perspectives of both location and time. The Government absolutely want the employers to be able to reach an agreement with the RMT. We are clear that it is for the industry to conduct the day-to-day negotiations with the RMT in this dispute. Under the Labour Government of some time ago, there were strikes by both firefighters and postal workers; they took exactly the same approach and asked the employers to negotiate with the unions.

Ryanair: Afrikaans Language Test

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Harris of Haringey

Thursday 9th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

If we are talking about specific experiences at specific airports, I landed at Gatwick on Friday afternoon and 30 minutes later, I was standing outside waiting for my minicab. The point is that it is not happening at all airports at all times. There are certainly peaks when things are falling over a little, and that is the thing we really have to tackle. As I say, the Government are well aware of the issues and we are looking to see what we can do.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I am not sure the Minister answered my noble friend Lord Tunnicliffe’s question very satisfactorily. He asked what the Government are able to do under those circumstances. Are we to understand that the Minister’s department made inquiries of Ryanair without being clear what its back-up position was, or indeed what powers it has in this respect?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

No. Clearly, we need a response from Ryanair because we cannot always believe what we read in the media, so that is our first step. Of course, the CAA has already issued a statement and as the UK’s regulator and the body that issues licences, it will be looking closely at this.

Railway Stations: Facilities

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Harris of Haringey

Tuesday 1st February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

Well, I do not know of independent auditors who are also plumbers and electricians; it is potentially an idea that we could look at. The reality is that independent auditors have a very serious job to do because taxpayers’ money is at stake here. If the train operating companies do not meet the targets for availability of services, they will not get their management fee; if there was subsequently a dispute that ended up in court, the independent auditors have to be of very high quality to ensure that such a challenge is met appropriately.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

It is interesting to hear about these independent auditors. Can the Minister tell us: how many of these wonderful people will there be, how many stations a day will they be expected to audit, will their visits be announced in advance and where will they report to?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I had not expected such interest in these independent auditors and will therefore have to write to the noble Lord.

Brexit: European Union’s No-deal Continuity Arrangements

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Harris of Haringey

Thursday 13th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

As my noble friend mentioned, I am sure the EU fully understands that the UK is willing to leave without a deal. Indeed, it is the legal default and it may be that we have no option. The Government are also undergoing extensive contingency planning in the event that we leave with no deal. Further details of that will be available shortly.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Lilley, said that the intention was to “prioritise flow over compliance”. I refer to my interests in the register on these matters. Does that mean the Government are prepared to tolerate unsafe goods, those that violate intellectual property laws and everything else coming into this country, simply to facilitate the mantra of no deal?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

The Government will certainly not tolerate that. That is why we have designed customs and additional control arrangements to make sure that appropriate checks are made.

Charities: National Fund

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Harris of Haringey

Monday 16th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, the Attorney-General has received many suggestions on how this money could be used and I am sure that noble Lords could think of many more. However, it is simply not right for money that has been donated for one purpose—whether the donors are living or not—to be given to another cause. Therefore, it will not be in this case.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I understand that, under circumstances in which—for whatever reason—trustees cannot fulfil their duties, the Charity Commission has the power to transfer the assets of one charity to another. If these trustees cannot fulfil their duties, because paying off the entire national debt is difficult, would it not have made more sense for the Charity Commission to have suggested that the assets be passed to another charity for good purposes? Why was that not considered?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, I think I have made myself very clear on what the Charity Commission currently feels. Noble Lords looked at the Charities Act in 2011, and the Government have been through charities law fairly recently. It is a fact that the charity is required by law to adhere to the purpose of the fund, which is to pay off the national debt. It is an administrative sub-clause which requires the entire national debt to be paid off.

Prisons: Women with Dependants

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Harris of Haringey

Monday 11th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, there is already a presumption against short-term sentencing. Custody is imposed only when an offence is so serious that only custody is merited. We are looking at how we can strengthen this particular guideline. Families as a whole play a very important part in a child’s upbringing so of course we must look at getting rid of short sentences for women, but we must also look at getting rid of them for men too.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, 94—or maybe 96—women have died in prison since my noble friend Lady Corston’s report was published. This recommends precisely what the Minister has just talked about—that custodial short sentences for women should be stopped and phased out. Has the Minister read the recent report from Inquest on the deaths of those women? How often in the last year have Ministry of Justice Ministers met the families of those who have died in prison?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

If the noble Lord is happy for me to do so‘, I will write to him with the information he requested. Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to read the report he mentioned, but I certainly will do. Female suicide is a very serious and tragic issue. Thankfully, we have had just one death in custody in the last 12 months; in the previous year it was 10. However, we are talking about a smaller number of female prisoners as a whole. There is also the issue of self-harm. Women are five times more likely than men to self-harm in prison. We are well aware of this and are doing whatever we can to make sure that they are protected.

Prisons: Overcrowding

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Harris of Haringey

Thursday 7th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, I would like to begin by thanking the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown, for securing this debate. He and other noble—and in some cases noble and learned—Lords have raised some very important points, which I hope to address. I will certainly write to address detailed and specific points, as so many have been raised today, and I am extraordinarily grateful for the quality of this debate.

Our prisons have been overcrowded for well over a decade, with the rate stable at around 25%. Overcrowding has been a long-standing issue for successive Governments. In November last year, to tackle overcrowding and other problems facing the prison system, this Government launched the Prison Safety and Reform White Paper. This programme will transform the prison estate and the experience of prisoners in it. It includes a £1.3 billion investment to make prisons safe and secure—and, in turn, places of rehabilitation. To reduce overcrowding, we must act in two areas. We must reform the prison estate and manage prisoner numbers.

Turning first to the prison estate, we need to make sure that we have the right number of prison places of the right type in modern or modernised buildings. There remain large parts of the prison estate that are old and inefficient, as noted by my noble friend Lord Colgrain. Prisoners are housed in poor physical conditions. Our transformative prison building and redevelopment programme will put this right. We are replacing old, inefficient prison places with 10,000 modern and better-designed places that support prisoner rehabilitation. Reducing overcrowding is a central aim of this estate modernisation, and the new prisons will be designed with this firmly in mind—so I believe that what we are doing is in line with the comments of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown. We are not building significantly more, but we are building better. We are also making sure that places are available now by bringing unused cells back into use.

I turn to the number of prisoners in our prisons. The Government are clear that there will always be enough prison places for offenders committed to custody by the courts, but many of the opportunities for achieving a better outcome for prisoners and the public may result in a reduction in prisoner numbers and will therefore help us tackle overcrowding. First, we must reduce reoffending. Many noble Lords have mentioned reoffending or the factors that lead to it: a lack of education and training, a dearth of employment opportunities, drug or alcohol addiction, poor mental health, and so many more. Reoffending costs the country £13 billion a year and puts a huge strain on our prisons.

The Government are committed through the prison safety and reform programme to improving the education, training and employment opportunities for prisoners, including encouraging prisoners to get qualifications in English and maths, providing access to apprenticeship programmes and teaming up with employment partners such as National Rail, Timpson, Halfords and so many more, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Lee. There will be more on these when we launch the education and employment strategy later this year.

The Government are also working to help prisoners beat addiction by ensuring access to trained providers of specialist addiction services. We have also announced measures to crack down on the availability of drugs in prisons. We believe that these actions will reduce reoffending and aid rehabilitation.

IPP prisoners have an impact on prisoner numbers, of course, and were mentioned by many noble Lords. We are committed to helping the remaining IPP prisoners to progress through their sentences towards safe release. IPP sentences, introduced by the previous Labour Government, were imposed a long time ago and were abolished by the coalition Government in 2012. Since then, the Prison Service, the National Probation Service and the Parole Board have taken up a range of work to speed up IPP sentence progression. This has included diverting recall cases away from the Parole Board so that it can focus on reviewing IPP prisoners; enhanced case management, with a view to avoiding IPP cases becoming stuck in the parole system; increasing the provision of places on new progression regimes; and improved access to interventions and programmes. Last year alone, 576 IPP prisoners were released—the highest number of annual releases. The Parole Board gave a release decision to almost half of all IPP prisoners considered, and recommended a move to open conditions for a further quarter.

There are a number of other areas it is worth mentioning with regard to prisoner numbers. The first is our focus on deporting foreign national offenders. Last year we deported 6,171—a record number. Electronic tagging, mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Marks, is an effective offender management tool, which can give suspects and offenders a chance to maintain their ties with a community while imposing additional safeguards to protect the public. The work to deliver the new service is complicated and has taken longer than originally anticipated, although lessons have been learned along the way. Our changes will introduce location monitoring and the flexibility to bring in an even greater range of monitoring in the future.

There is also the use of release on temporary licence as part of rehabilitation, where we will maintain improvements recently made to ROTL and allow governors greater discretion to help prisoners get the skills and training that they need. We will, however, continue to use recall where appropriate for breaches of conditions, particularly where there is a risk to the public—but we are taking action to ensure that more is done to help offenders complete their licence period successfully without reaching the point where recall becomes necessary.

Noble Lords referred to other issues that may ultimately make it less likely that a prisoner will be rehabilitated and go on to become a successful returning citizen. I have mentioned that we are taking steps to tackle drug addiction and reduce the availability of drugs. These are important to improve prisoner rehabilitation and reduce violence and instability in our prisons. We want prisons to be places of hard work, rigorous education and high ambition, with incentives for prisoners to learn and for prison staff to prioritise education and work. We need to put the tools to drive change into the hands of those in the front line, who know best what works. Progress is being made on a number of recommendations, including giving governors the budget and flexibility to spend their resources appropriately in order, for example, to help prisoners keep up important family ties—which was mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins.

To support prisoners and enable each to reach his or her new potential, the new offender management model included as part of the prison safety and reform programme ensures that each prisoner has a key worker with time to engage one to one, act as a mentor and support changes in attitudes and behaviour. Each prison officer will have no more than around six cases. That will ensure that prisoners have the means to develop a programme of support that meets their needs: from access to education to getting ready to leave prison, from getting treatment for poor mental health to enrolling on a training programme.

Many noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Murphy, the right reverend prelate the Bishop of Rochester and the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, mentioned the problems of suicide, self-harm and poor mental health. On suicide and self-harm, we have put in place a range of measures to support prisoners who are at risk of self-harm or suicide, especially in the first 24 hours, when they are at their most vulnerable. We are rolling out new training that will help staff identify the risks and triggers of suicide and self-harm and understand what they can do to support prisoners at risk. We have put in place specialist roles, including regional safer-custody leads in every region to provide advice to prisoners and spread good practice. We are using experts, including providing extra funding to the Samaritans, to provide support for prison staff and prisoners directly.

On mental health more broadly, we need a more systematic, nationally consistent approach that provides quicker and more certain access to mental health treatment. We are working with the Department of Health and NHS England to develop a new health and justice protocol so that courts are able to increase their use of mental health treatment requirements, alcohol treatment requirements and drug rehabilitation requirements as part of a community sentence. This will mean that we can intervene earlier to deal with mental health and substance misuse issues. We are also working with the judiciary and the Health Secretary to make sure that courts have better access to psychologists and registered mental health practitioners. These liaison and diversion services—for which we are grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bradley, for his work—are being trialled at police stations and courts across nearly 70% of the country. NHS England is leading a cross-government programme to expand these services to the whole of England by 2020-21.

Finally, prison must be safe. The level of violence in our prisons is unacceptable. We are fully committed to making prisons safer and addressing the significant increase in violence and assaults by increasing staffing levels and improving ways of working. In all of this, the work of prison staff is supported by close working relationships with a range of partners. Prison chaplains of many faiths, for example—mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Southwark—are critical in providing pastoral and spiritual care to those in our care. They offer valuable support to governors in delivering decent and humane regimes. We recognise and welcome the valuable pastoral care that our chaplaincies provide to staff and inmates across the prison estate.

There is much more to be done—much new thinking to be had and innovation to be found. That was mentioned by my noble friend Lady Bottomley and the noble Lords, Lord Wigley, Lord Alton and Lord Bird. I hope that we can continue these discussions going forward.

In order to achieve our goals and provide prisoners with the support that they need, we need to back the hard-working prison workforce already in place and bolster its numbers over the next 18 months. That is why we are investing £100 million a year to recruit an extra 2,500 prison officers by the end of next year. The most recent figures show that the number of prison officers has increased by 868 compared with the previous quarter. Prison officer recruitment numbers are at their highest level since records began. We believe that these new prison officers will meet the forecast needs of the prison system.

Targeted recruitment activities, such as higher starting pay and additional allowances of up to £5,000 a year, support the process in those establishments that have the most difficulty with recruitment. These new recruits will join thousands of dedicated prison officers who undertake such important work day in and day out to keep our prisons and the public safe. We will need their experience, which is why we are rolling out retention programmes across the estate and providing financial incentives to reduce attrition.

It should be noted that the role of the prison officer is developing. It is changing and on training, mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, we are making improvements. We have increased our prison officer training capacity to be able to deal with the significant boost in numbers. Existing staff are undertaking key worker training. We are providing tailored support to governors and their teams to introduce this model and train staff, beginning with 10 pathfinder prisons. This investment in additional prison staff, plus more effective training and the greater autonomy we have given to governors—

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

I apologise that I was not able to be here for most of the debate because of other business, but can the Minister tell us what would be the ratio, once these additional prison staff are recruited, of prison staff to prisoners compared with, say, eight years ago?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

Unfortunately, I do not have those data to hand, but I go back to the comments I made earlier about each prison officer having a maximum of six cases in their workload, which is certainly manageable going forward. If I receive any further information I will of course write to the noble Lord.