Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Stephens Excerpts

Monday 27th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

They are already in place. I think this is a misunderstanding that the hon. Gentleman had. The elements that were outlined in the Green Paper were not speculative or things that we would be consulting on; they were things we were going to do. All the elements, including all the recruitment for all the community partners around the country, are in place now.

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

Let me return to the issue of the DWP estate and travel times. Given that this information has been gathered via Google Maps, which has been shown to be inaccurate as some bus services are no longer operational, will the Minister tell me what tests have been carried out to check the accuracy of the information? If there is a possibility of the ministerial guidance being breached, will any further proposed closures will go to public consultation?

[Damian Hinds]

The hon. Gentleman and I, and many of his colleagues and others from across the House, have had a number of opportunities to debate these matters and to go through individual cases, on individual locations, one by one. We used a variety of sources to determine travel times and “reasonableness” of travel. The ministerial criteria say that if somewhere is within 3 miles or 20 minutes by public transport, it is reasonable to ask somebody to make that journey; otherwise, we have a public consultation.

Backbench Business

Chris Stephens Excerpts

Thursday 16th March 2017 Westminster Hall

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered Jobcentre Plus office closures.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Walker, and I thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting this debate, for which there is cross-party support. With the exception of an urgent question, this is the first time that the House has managed to debate this issue since the announcement of UK-wide office closures. This is an opportunity for hon. Members to represent their constituents and to discuss the effects that the office closures will have on their constituencies. As has been indicated, there is widespread disquiet about the impact that the jobcentre closures will have. I will keep my opening remarks brief to allow hon. Members with closures in their constituencies the opportunity to inform us all of the local impacts on their constituents and communities.

The House is rightly exercised—as are many hon. Members—by the haphazard nature of the closures and the lack of evidence or rationale to support them, other than that they will save money in the short term. The lack of an adequate equality impact assessment is particularly damning. The closures have been presented by the Government as a straightforward process of rationalising the estate—that is, as sensible, considered and thought through in great detail. I would suggest otherwise, however. Far from this being a planned process to make the most of the expiry of contracts to improve services and locate them where they are needed most, it is a cost-cutting, penny-pinching cuts programme being done with poor to non-existent consideration of local conditions.

Instead of consulting appropriately with local partners and seeking to co-locate with other services to improve the effectiveness of Jobcentre Plus services, the Government have embarked upon a Google Maps, back-of-an-envelope exercise, based on achieving a targeted percentage of closures—10% overall, but 50% in Glasgow, as I am sure we will hear. Instead of enabling jobseekers to easily access other services—such as support with housing, childcare, debt management and health conditions—to help them to overcome their barriers to work, the Government have started with the basic premise of how many offices they can close and then worked backwards.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. For the record, we should remember that at least 30,000 people have lost their jobs in the civil service, and this is part of that. He spoke about the increasing workload. Citizens advice bureaus have reported that their workloads have gone up by 88%, in particular because of personal independence payment claims. Tile Hill jobcentre in my constituency is being closed, so people will have to walk miles or get buses. Importantly, a lot of them suffer from disabilities, so they will be at a disadvantage.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Stephens]

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that there have been 30,000 job losses in the civil service. As I will point out, there will be more in relation to this particular exercise, as the Government admitted in written answers to me. He is also correct about the lack of an equality impact assessment, which I will also mention.

This is a deeply flawed process, tainted by the lack of consultation with local community planning partners. In Glasgow, the Department for Work and Pensions is meant to be a key player in the process, but the closures were announced without consultation, and that is about as far from a “One Glasgow” approach as we can get. Nor to the closures do anything to support a locally agreed priority of youth employment.

Instead of respecting the terms of the Smith agreement, the UK Government announced the closures without any advance consultation with the communities that will be affected and in so doing bypassed the Scottish Government. Paragraph 58 of the Smith Commission report states:

“As the single face-to-face channel for citizens to access all benefits delivered by DWP, Jobcentre Plus will remain reserved. However, the UK and Scottish Government will identify ways to further link services through methods such as co-location wherever possible and establish more formal mechanisms to govern the Jobcentre Plus network in Scotland.”

Ministers have had to publicly admit, including in a written answer to me, that they expect at least 750 DWP staff to lose their jobs and they have refused to rule out compulsory redundancies. Jobs will disappear through this process, not only directly but indirectly. That will be less visible in cities, where jobs in call centres, delivery companies and coffee shops have replaced the thousands of admin and clerical posts that have been cut year on year for longer than I can remember. Every public sector office closure leads to money being taken out of the local economy and reduces the opportunities for young people to build a career, instead of just holding down a job. The impact on smaller cities and towns should not be underestimated. For some communities it is the equivalent of a Ravenscraig or a Linwood. Local traders are affected, small businesses fold, young people move away if they can and the local economy declines.

Finally, I want to highlight the link between the push to digital services and office closures, when it becomes much more difficult to find a person to talk to in a public office. I have spoken recently about the unfair telephone tax, where the most vulnerable are hit with call charges for contacting the DWP and other government services. The DWP is a long way from being digital by default. A vicious circle is emerging, whereby access to advice and support is being blocked to those who need it most. Every Member here can testify that our offices are now providing more and more of that support through our constituency casework. Widespread jobcentre closures will only increase the workload on other staff in the DWP, giving them less time to spend on individuals.

I will now leave it to other hon. Members to voice their concerns and no doubt vent their frustrations about this botched and flawed process.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Stephens]

The hon. Lady is giving some fascinating facts. Does she know that the exercise with Google Maps in Glasgow used information based on bus services that are no longer operational?

[Louise Haigh]

That is another interesting point that shows the problems with using Google Maps without consulting the local authority or the local passenger transport executive, as any rational person would expect the Government to do. On average, the journey between Eastern Avenue and the city centre takes 44 minutes. The maximum time it took Antony was 63 minutes.

There is clear consensus today that the evidence base and the impact assessments need to be published before the final decision is made. I would really like the Minister to reflect today on the long-term impact of removing a respected community service from incredibly deprived areas—Arbourthorne and Manor Top are some of the most deprived in the country—that have relied on them for so long.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Stephens]

Is my hon. Friend aware that, although the Department publicly suggests that 0845 numbers are no longer in operation, claimants can phone an 0845 number, which costs 55p a minute?

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

It is an outrage. My hon. Friend highlights something that makes a mockery of the suggestion that this will save money.

Those who do not have an internet connection because their area has not yet had substantial investment in broadband connectivity—in my area we need investment in the copper wiring, never mind new fibre—cannot access the services online as easily as the Department presumes. Many urban, suburban and rural citizens simply cannot afford to sign up to an internet provider. That also holds true in relation to phone and mobile operators.

Reducing the number of jobcentres and moving those services to a central location—in my constituency, down to Dumbarton—will make it more difficult for citizens to access those so-called local services in person. It will result in longer journeys at a greater cost to those who are already struggling to pay the bills, and it may exacerbate health conditions. In certain parts of my consistency in the winter, it is not an easy journey, especially for people coming from the national park end. To suggest that those individuals can claim back any cost incurred through the longer journey misses the bigger point. They are already struggling financially, and the lack of awareness from the Government and specifically the Department is quite unnerving.

To ensure the best service for citizens, all interested parties must be involved. I welcome West Dunbartonshire Council’s proactive cross-party approach to tackling these issues in the best way for our constituents. I urge the Minister in the strongest possible terms to engage constructively with the local authority to retain those local services. In the light of that, I ask him to draw its attention to the policy, because there are different policy frameworks across the UK. For Scotland, I urge the Department to read the report by the Christie commission on the future delivery of public services, which shows how that delivery might be achieved with community planning partners. The clue is in the name: it is about partners and partnership.

Unfortunately, my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mhairi Black) cannot be here today for personal reasons, and she asked me to raise a few points on her behalf. The Department announced that it was relocating 300 jobs out of her constituency into the city of Glasgow, with no consideration of the impact on the local economy. In addition, no consideration has been given to how existing staff will be affected and how the travel time will impact on their lives. That could be a major factor that may force some existing staff to consider taking redundancy, as any move may be impractical. Why is the DWP abandoning a purpose-built office to take on a new lease?

To sum up, I hope that the Minister and his civil servants will take on board the valid concerns expressed by all Members and be proactive in responding, in particular by recognising the opportunities for co-location and partnership working for local services in local communities. I am sure I speak on behalf of all Members in praising the staff and those from the PCS union. I have been meeting them to ensure that this is kept to the fore as a major issue for us to debate.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister for Employment (Damian Hinds)]

As always, it is a great pleasure to see you chairing the debate, Mr Walker. I congratulate the hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens) on securing it and giving us the chance to debate these matters again. I think at one point he suggested that this was the first chance that we had had to debate—

[Chris Stephens]

For clarity, this is the first time we have had a chance to debate the issue since the UK-wide announcement, not just the Glasgow announcement.

[Damian Hinds]

I am pleased with that clarification, although we had the urgent question on 30 January, after the UK-wide announcement on 26 January, and the Westminster Hall debate in this Chamber on 20 December, as well as a number of oral and written questions—the hon. Gentleman’s colleague, the hon. Member for Glasgow South (Stewart Malcolm McDonald), suggested more than 100. I have not been counting, but I confirm that it is a substantial number. Of course, we have had the opportunity to meet one to one and with groups as well. I am grateful for this further opportunity to debate these important matters.

On 31 March next year, the DWP’s 20-year private finance initiative contract, which covers the majority of the Department’s property portfolio of more than 900 sites, will expire. The Department for Work and Pensions currently occupies about 1.5 million square metres of office space, and these days at least 20% of it is under-occupied. The falling claimant count and the increased use of our online services in recent years means that 20% of the taxpayers’ money that the Department is spending on rent is going towards space that is not being used. By paying only for the space we do need and the services required to operate from that, we anticipate saving about £180 million a year for the next 10 years.

The expiry of that contract at the end of March 2018 presents both a unique opportunity and a specific requirement to review the estate. In response to changing demands facing the Department, we have redesigned the estate in a way that delivers better value for the taxpayer. I need to be clear that this is not about reducing services; it is about taking the opportunity to stop spending taxpayers’ money on unused space so that we can target money effectively on supporting those in need. We have carefully considered the challenges that we anticipate the Department is likely to face in the future, but the jobs landscape and the way people work has changed significantly in the past 20 years.

As has been mentioned, some 90% of universal credit claims are made online and with more of our services moving online, in common with other organisations, we want to continue making the most of the opportunities that new technologies present to help best meet our claimants’ needs.

[Damian Hinds]

I am certainly not trying to mislead and I do not think I am misleading. I reassure the hon. Lady that the Department for Work and Pensions, in common with others, does staff and resource planning that takes into account all the different demands that will be made on our services, and that includes the fact that, as a number of Members have mentioned, in universal credit there is the opportunity to work more closely with people, with the workload that that will involve, to encourage more people into work. Of course, that is all part of the plans and not something additional that has not been considered.

The hon. Lady mentioned work with, for example, lone mums on income support. There is also work with partners, as the hon. Member for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood) mentioned, and then work with people in work, the self-employed and so on. I should add that some of those offers are in development, and we will adjust and evolve the operation of the offer to optimise it as time goes on. However, of course the assumptions on the amount of workload involved are reflected in the plans.

It is right that we reflect not only the impact of the digital revolution in meeting our claimants’ needs but the realities of a more flexible labour market and significant falls in unemployment since 2010. The employment rate is at a new record high: there are more people in work than ever before. We had the statistics on the unemployment rate come out just yesterday: they have hit a 12-year low. In fact, the last time the unemployment rate was lower than what was announced yesterday was in the mid-1970s. Of course, we always have to consider that things in the world will change. That is also considered in the planning assumptions made by the Department.

[Chris Stephens]

In terms of employment rates, does the Minister not concede that one result of that is that those who are not in work at the moment have specific circumstances and challenges to overcome? On that basis, that should result in more face-to-face, rather than online, contact.

[Damian Hinds]

The hon. Gentleman makes a characteristically important and insightful point. Of course, what he says is true. There is a distinction to be made between different claimants and clients in different circumstances, in receipt of different types or benefits—for example, people who are on employment and support allowance are not required to attend jobcentres fortnightly or weekly in the same way as people who are in receipt of jobseeker’s allowance.

We want to maximise the opportunities available to all those groups of people, of course. Some of that is about stuff that happens in jobcentres; some of it is not. There are some things that could be done more effectively not in jobcentres than in them, particularly with some people who are further away from the jobs market, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman will recognise.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Stephens]

May I first apologise to you Mr Walker? So keen was I to raise this issue that I forgot to refer the House to the Register of Members’ Financial Interests and my position as chair of the PCS parliamentary group. I apologise for that.

A number of issues have not yet been answered. There is the question of the review criteria. I am clear, as are many hon. Members, that all 78 sites that were earmarked for closure should have been subjected to a full public consultation. The reason why is that the equality impact issue is still outstanding; there is no equality impact assessment for disabled people or the black and minority ethnic community, among others. The economic impact will certainly be hard on many areas; the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) identified that, and made an excellent point on industrial injury benefit. There is also the workforce impact; we have a written answer that says that the DWP expects 750 staff posts to go. If it is hiring staff and letting 750 posts go, I suspect that there will be an employment tribunal at some stage.

We need to make sure that this is done with the correct information, and not wrong and inaccurate information. I ask the Minister to listen to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South (Stewart Malcolm McDonald) about parliamentary scrutiny going forward, and to make sure that we deal with this issue on the Floor of the House. Certainly, if the Minister makes announcements, we expect that to be on the Floor of the House and not sneaked through in a written statement on a Thursday or Friday, or before a recess.

I thank you, Mr Walker, and thank all hon. Members for taking part in this important debate.

[Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

Thank you, colleagues. I hope you all have a productive Friday and weekend.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered Jobcentre Plus office closures.

Personal Independence Payments

Chris Stephens Excerpts

Wednesday 15th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work and I are in constant contact with charities and other groups concerned with this area, precisely because we want to improve the system in a systematic and coherent way so that we are not simply responding to individual cases in front of the courts. I am sure everyone would agree that that is a more sensible way to proceed in continuing the improvements we have seen under PIP.

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

I asked the Secretary of State this question two weeks ago. If he is arguing that the purpose of PIP is to cover the extra costs that people incur because of a disability, why are those with mental health conditions being paid a lower rate than someone with a physical disability if they struggle to plan or follow a journey?

[Damian Green]

They are not. I can only repeat what I have said before, and if necessary, I will quote the facts again, or the detailed case that I gave to the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms). I could go into the details, but I suspect that your patience would be tested by that, Mr Speaker. Do you want me to read the descriptors out again? [Interruption.] But seriously, the point is that it is perfectly possible to qualify for the standard rate or the enhanced rate purely with a mental health condition, so it is not the case that people with mental health conditions are discriminated against.

Housing Benefits (18 to 21-year-olds)

Chris Stephens Excerpts

Tuesday 7th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Nokes]

As I have said repeatedly, we have put in place a long list of exemptions precisely to prevent homelessness. Those who are unable to return to the family home will be exempt from the policy, so we do not expect it to increase homelessness.

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

The lack of a published impact assessment is simply scandalous. Will the Minister tell us the measured impact on a vulnerable young person who has had to leave home because of difficulties or abuse, and who is now being asked to prove that abuse just so they can get the housing support they need to live away from their family?

[Caroline Nokes]

A vulnerable young person who has had to leave home because of abuse will, of course, be exempt.

Draft Mesothelioma Lump Sum Payments (Conditions and amounts) (amendment) Regulations 2017 Draft Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ compensation) (payment of claims) (amendment) regulations 2017

Chris Stephens Excerpts

Tuesday 28th February 2017 General Committees

[Penny Mordaunt]

These two statutory instruments will increase the value of lump sum amounts payable under the Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) Act 1979 and the diffuse mesothelioma scheme set up by the Child Maintenance and Other Payments Act 2008. The two schemes stand apart from the main social security benefits uprating procedure, and there is no legislative requirement to review the level of payments each year. However, we wish to increase the amounts payable for 2017 by the consumer prices index, which is 1%—the same rate as is being applied to some other social security disability benefits and industrial injuries disablement benefit. The new amounts will be paid to those who first satisfy all the conditions of entitlement on or after 1 April 2017.

The Government recognise that people suffering from diseases caused by exposure to asbestos or a number of other listed agents may be unable to bring a successful civil damages claim in relation to their disease. That is mainly owing to the long latency period, often stretching back decades, between exposure and the onset of the disease. By providing lump sum payments through the two schemes, we fulfil an important role to sufferers of certain dust-related diseases, including asbestos-related diseases. The schemes also aim to ensure that sufferers receive compensation in their lifetime while they themselves can still benefit from it, without first having to await the outcome of civil litigation.

I will briefly summarise the specific purpose of the lump sum compensation schemes. The Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) Act 1979 scheme, which I will refer to as the ’79 Act scheme, provides a lump sum compensation payment to those who suffer from one of five dust-related respiratory diseases covered by the scheme, who are unable to claim damages because the relevant employer has gone out of business or who have not brought any action against others for damages. The five diseases covered by the ’79 Act scheme are diffuse mesothelioma, bilateral diffuse pleural thickening, pneumoconiosis, byssinosis and primary carcinoma of the lung, if accompanied by asbestosis or bilateral diffuse pleural thickening.

The 2008 mesothelioma lump sum payments scheme provides compensation to people who contract diffuse mesothelioma, but are unable to claim compensation for that disease under the ’79 Act scheme—for example, because their exposure to asbestos was not due to their work. The 2008 scheme allows payments to be made quickly to sufferers at their time of greatest need. Under both schemes, a claim can be made by a dependant if the sufferer has died before being able to make a claim.

Payments under the ’79 Act scheme are based on the level of the disablement assessment and the age of the sufferer at the time the disease is diagnosed. The highest amounts are paid to those diagnosed at an early age and with the highest level of disablement. All payments for diffuse mesothelioma under the ’79 Act scheme are made at the 100% disablement rate: the highest rate of payment. Similarly, all payments under the 2008 scheme are made at the 100% disablement rate and are based on age, with the highest payments going to the youngest sufferers. In the last full year, April 2015 to March 2016, 3,920 people received payments under both schemes, totalling just shy of £54 million. For the current year, 2016-17, we estimate that just over 4,000 payments will be made under those schemes, totalling just over £54 million.

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

As I understand it, the last uprating of compensation was in 2015. Is there any reason why there was no uprating in 2016?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I will come to that. There are a number of issues around putting this on a statutory footing, but what we are trying to do today is to ensure that the benefits are uprated—that is the main purpose of the statutory instruments before us. It is not to change the way in which we do this.

I am aware that the incidence of diffuse mesothelioma is a particular concern of Members, with the number of deaths in Great Britain at historically high levels. Diffuse mesothelioma has a strong association with exposure to asbestos and current evidence suggests that about 85% of all male mesotheliomas are attributable to asbestos exposures that occurred through work. Those diagnosed with diffuse mesothelioma have a life expectancy of less than 12 months from diagnosis, with the sufferer becoming severely disabled soon after diagnosis.

The number of cases reflects the long latency period of the disease. Our latest available information suggests that there will continue to be about 2,500 diffuse mesothelioma deaths per year for the rest of this decade, before annual cases begin to fall, reflecting a reduction in asbestos exposure following its widespread use before 1980.

The regulations increase the levels of support through the statutory compensation schemes. I am sure we all agree that although no amount of money can ever compensate individuals and families for the suffering and loss caused by these terrible diseases, those who are suffering rightly deserve and need some form of monetary compensation. The statutory schemes provide an essential element of that support.

I am required to confirm to the House that these provisions are compatible with the European convention on human rights, and I am happy to do that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Stephens]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Sir Alan. I first want to declare my membership of the Glasgow City branch of Unison. That is pertinent because in 2005 I lost a friend to mesothelioma. It is a dreadful disease. My friend was a health and safety officer in the Glasgow City branch. The then Labour Government rightly introduced compensation payments in 2008, but my friend Tom’s family were unable to get compensation because the company he had been working for, which is where they think he contracted the awful disease, was no longer trading. That has been a problem for those who have been suffering from this disease: many of the companies where people were exposed to asbestos are no longer trading. It is very difficult for families in those circumstances to make claims.

I have a number of questions for the Minister. I associate myself with the remarks and many of the questions of the hon. Member for St Helens South and Whiston, but I want to add to them. I do not think we really got an answer as to why, if the Government are going to uprate on a yearly basis—that is what they state in the explanatory memorandum—the last uprating was in 2015. If they are going to do that, they should consider a higher increase than 1%, particularly given that the consumer prices index is currently 1.8%. Also, I would argue that CPI does not represent the real rate of inflation, which is the retail prices index; I will always argue that position, and it has always been the trade union view. We are going by a figure from September 2016 of 1%, but inflation is increasing and we need to be mindful of that. Given that there has not been an increase in two years, the Government need to reflect on whether 1% is good enough.

The hon. Member for St Helens South and Whiston mentioned equality impact assessments, and I have been asking Government Departments a number of questions on that theme. Each Department has given different answers on the number of equality impact assessments they are carrying out and on whether they should be carrying them out at all.

The Minister said that there is no need to consult; the Government should reconsider that. Many organisations, including the trade unions, should be consulted on this issue and on whether the compensation scheme can be improved, as the hon. Member for St Helens South and Whiston outlined in her remarks. I look forward to the Minister’s response to those questions.

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank Members for their comments and questions. Starting with the equalisation of awards, the 1979 Act scheme and the 2008 Act scheme allow dependants of deceased sufferers to claim lump sum compensation. Dependents may claim because the sufferer did not know about the schemes in life or because they passed on before being able to pursue a claim.

The value of the awards paid to sufferers and dependants has always differed, historically. The rationale is that limited resources should be targeted on those who would most benefit from the awards: the sufferers themselves. The issue is complex. To amend the 1979 Act to equalise those awards without creating losers in the scheme would require comprehensive changes to the payment and claims legislation under the 1979 Act. We estimate that were the 2017-18 uprating exercise to equalise sufferer and dependant awards, it would require an additional £2 million a year from the departmental expenditure limit budget.

The hon. Member for St Helens South and Whiston asked specifically about the breakdown between sufferer payments and dependant payments. In 2015-16, sufferer payments totalled £51.3 million, and dependant payments were £2.6 million. The bulk clearly goes to those who are still alive.

I turn to the hon. Lady’s questions about the Health and Safety Executive. Like every other organisation, the Health and Safety Executive is having to tighten its belt and do more with its budget, but I am pleased to say that it is being successful. The hon. Lady may be aware of its ambition to do more on health—historically, it has been focused on the safety part of its remit. It has launched some major campaigns and its own consultation exercises, alongside our work and health Green Paper.

Specifically, following its major campaign on asbestos awareness, which kicked off in October 2014 and ran until March 2015, the Health and Safety Executive continues to make a wide range of information freely available through its website. The “Beware Asbestos” app, a legacy of that major campaign, has also been highlighted in trade magazines and by trade associations. Further specific awareness-raising activities may also be considered in the future.

I now turn to the point that the hon. Lady and the hon. Member for Glasgow South West both made. We have considered the merits of aligning the uprating of these schemes with the annual uprating of other social security benefits. However, there was considered to be a risk that such an approach would marginalise the discussions around these particular disease areas. By presenting this measure today, the Government recognise the continued importance of uprating those lump sum payments by inflation, but of course we keep this matter under review.

On the specific point about 2015, the consumer prices index at that time was minus 0.2%, so there would not have been an uprating on that. We use the consumer prices index because of what we do in respect of other benefits, although I take the hon. Gentleman’s point that he might want a different measure to be used across all benefits.

I now turn to the other scheme and the issue of impact assessment. We have not prepared an impact analysis for these instruments as they do not have an impact on the private sector or civil society organisations. In relation to the incidence of mesothelioma more generally, the Health and Safety Executive already publishes comprehensive information regarding asbestos-related diseases, including mortality and occupational data for mesothelioma. I understand that updated data are planned for publication later this year. However, if Opposition Members feel that that is not thorough enough or that information is missing, they can write to me and tell me what the Health and Safety Executive is not specifically providing. I will certainly look at that.

[Chris Stephens]

I thank the Minister for giving way. On the non-alignment with social security benefits, does she not agree that there is a sensible argument for looking at consulting with trade unions and other organisations—asbestosis campaigners and the rest?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. As the Minister who looks after these and other benefits, and health and work, my door is always open to people who wish to make representations and suggestions about how we can improve things. As the hon. Gentleman will know, we are doing a huge amount of work in the Department at the moment on our health and work Green Paper, which has recently closed. A huge amount of activity during that consultation was specifically with the trade unions, which have a massive role to play in this agenda going forward. We absolutely want to improve things where we can, and I am always happy to receive any representation that any organisation wishes to make.

I thank hon. Members for their comments. I am happy to follow up on the issue of the specific information that the Health and Safety Executive supplies.

Question put and agreed to.

DRAFT PNEUMOCONIOSIS ETC. (WORKERS’ COMPENSATION) (PAYMENT OF CLAIMS) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS 2017

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) (Payment of Claims) (Amendment) Regulations 2017.—(Penny Mordaunt.)

Personal Independence Payments

Chris Stephens Excerpts

Tuesday 28th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

It is impossible for me to comment on an individual case when I have not seen the details, but the parity between mental and physical disabilities is embedded in PIP. It is the whole point of PIP. I shall not weary Members by repeating the figures, but far more people with mental health conditions are receiving PIP than used to receive DLA. It may be an uncomfortable truth for Opposition Members, but it is still true.

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

Why was the Social Security Advisory Committee, in effect, bypassed when this regulation was put through? What consultations has the Secretary of State had with organisations that represent disabled people? What does he say to those organisations that are concerned about his Department’s repeated attempts to award people with mental health conditions who cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey alone the lower and not the higher mobility rate?

[Damian Green]

I spoke to the chairman of the SSAC and explained why I was invoking the urgency procedure, which is allowed. He and his committee still have the power to look at these regulations and make recommendations. The hon. Gentleman will have observed that many Members of all parties have talked about the problems of uncertainty and how they particularly affect many of those people with mental health conditions whom we have been discussing. What we are doing as quickly as possible is removing the uncertainty, meeting the upper tribunal’s desire for greater clarity in the system and restoring it to where it was before, so that everyone understands it. These are the rules under which people have claimed for a long time, providing quick certainty for people, which is what many people want.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Stephens Excerpts

Monday 20th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

I do not accept that, and I do not think the hon. Lady’s description of the exemptions to that clause accord with reality. The system that we are proposing is not remotely punitive; it is entirely sensible and workable.

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

What plans has the Secretary of State to reduce the cost of telephone calls to his Department, which can now cost up to 55p a minute? Is he still having discussions with the Social Security Advisory Committee, which believes that all telephone calls to the Department should be at no cost to claimants?

[Damian Green]

I am, obviously, in constant contact with the Social Security Advisory Committee. People who phone the Department always have an opportunity to ask to be called back if they do not wish to continue their own calls.

Jobcentre Plus Offices: Closure

Chris Stephens Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

May I tell the Minister that the Government appear to be making exactly the same errors as they did with the announcement of the Glasgow closure programme? Will the Minister tell us why the Scottish Government were not consulted, as per the Smith agreement? Why did she say in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Inverclyde (Ronnie Cowan) that jobcentres have catchment areas, when written answers to Members of the House have suggested that there are no catchment areas for jobcentres? Will she also tell us why the written ministerial statement indicated that redundancies may be required, and may we have further detail on that? Finally, what support, if any, will be available to claimants, particularly those with caring responsibilities, who have to travel greater distances?

[Caroline Nokes]

The hon. Gentleman will of course be conscious that, as an employer, the DWP has sought to put its staff first and to make sure that they are informed first about the proposals. It is important to reflect that we need to make sure we have good working relations with the Scottish Government, and he will be aware that my hon. Friend the Minister for Employment travelled to the Musselburgh jobcentre the week before last. It does matter to us that people get to go to the jobcentre most convenient for them. That need not be the one allocated to them by the jobcentre, but could be one they choose for themselves. In every instance, we are seeking to make sure that claimants can work with their work coach and go to the jobcentre that is most appropriate for them.

DWP Estate

Chris Stephens Excerpts

Wednesday 18th January 2017 Westminster Hall

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

Thank you, Madam Chair. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) for a barnstorming speech in protection of jobcentres.

Perhaps to continue the theme of the speech by my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South (Stewart Malcolm McDonald), I have also researched not only my own written questions and the answers that I received but the written questions put by my hon. Friends. The answers we have received put me in mind of the infamous press conference by Donald Rumsfeld, the former US Defence Secretary, when he used that memorable term:

“There are things we don’t know”.

That phrase reminds me of the answers that we have received from the Government. When asked about the actual travel time for an individual to get to a jobcentre, they “don’t know”; as for the number of benefit claimants using each jobcentre, they “don’t know”; regarding the catchment area for each jobcentre, they “don’t know”; when asked about the bus routes to jobcentres, they “don’t know”; regarding the planning application that has been made in relation to Anniesland jobcentre, they did not know about it; that the landlord of the property housing Castlemilk jobcentre had offered to reduce the rent on the site, they did not know; and as for the impact of these changes on disabled people and women, they “don’t know”.

All these points are important, because if the Government do not know all those things, why are they so certain that jobcentres should close in Glasgow? And why is it that no other announcements have been made by the Department for Work and Pensions in relation to the closures of jobcentres? Is it because of the public backlash that the DWP has already seen in Glasgow, or is it because the DWP now knows, through the Glasgow experiment, that there is a lack of evidence to close other jobcentres across the UK? Or is it because the information that the DWP does not have for Glasgow is required elsewhere?

Yesterday, we were told in the main Chamber that work is the way out of poverty, but what consolation is that to the people in Glasgow who will find that the very places to find work are no longer there to support them?

If the Government do not have the information that I referred to at the beginning of my remarks, why are they only consulting publicly on three of the eight jobcentres earmarked for closure? If the closure of a package of eight jobcentres is announced, the whole package should be consulted on. What consolation is that consultation for those working in other Government Departments who are being made redundant? Is the Government’s vision to reduce the workforce in other Departments and for that workforce to then find that they cannot find a jobcentre, because they have been closed? That seems to be a perverse vision of ensuring that work is a way out of poverty.

The plan to close 50% of the jobcentres in Glasgow is a moral outrage. Some 68% of the people in Glasgow in receipt of jobseeker’s allowance, employment and support allowance and universal credit will be impacted by the closures. These closures will result in more people having to pay the telephone tax—the premium rate charges to call Departments. There is support among Members on the Government Benches and the SNP Benches for ensuring that the telephone tax is ended.

The cost of the jobcentre closures will be borne by the people the Government should be assisting. I recommend the submission from Parkhead Housing Association, which makes the very point that travel will impose extra costs

“on people living off of the minimum the government states is required for day to day survival.”

It is the people on low incomes who will be affected. It is unacceptable that tens of thousands of people will now travel further and incur additional costs to access social security. These individuals are seeking work or employment support. As the civil service trade union, the PCS, has said, the impact will be

“on women, vulnerable children and people with disabilities already hit hardest by government cuts.”

There must be an equality impact assessment. We must have a guarantee from the Government that the results of any equality analysis will be considered in the eventual decision. The Government have behaved in a disgraceful manner. They did not consult the Scottish Government before the announcement, nor did they consult the local authority. There have been inadequate responses to written questions, with that familiar answer “Information can only be provided at disproportionate cost” often being given. What is disproportionate is to close 50% of the jobcentres in Glasgow when the expectation is that that figure will be 20% elsewhere.

[Nadine Dorries (in the Chair)]

Mr Stephens, you were allowed 10 minutes as the SNP spokesman. If you want to go on, you can.

[Chris Stephens]

I could have gone on.

[Nadine Dorries (in the Chair)]

Would you like to go on?

[Chris Stephens]

Okay, I will.

As well as impressing the comments of Parkhead Housing Association on the Minister, I want to raise the comments of the Glasgow citizens advice bureau. It said:

“The increased numbers will put pressure on staff who have no leeway if someone is five or ten minutes late. They will be recorded as missing an appointment and sanctions will be applied. Some people have to sign on weekly and in some cases people can be called in daily. Even at once a week the bus fare is almost 10% of a young person’s Jobseeker’s Allowance.”

That is a true cost of closing the jobcentres in Glasgow for those who seek the support of the state.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Welfare Delivery (Caroline Nokes)]

It is, as always, a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Dorries. I add my congratulations to the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) on securing this debate and to all hon. Members who have contributed to it. We have had quite a geographic spread—obviously, the majority of hon. Members who have spoken are from Scotland, but the south-west, the north-west and of course Northern Ireland have been represented. I thank those hon. Members for their comments.

Our network of jobcentres is absolutely at the heart of Department for Work and Pensions services. Across the country, jobcentre staff work hard to help people to access the support and assistance they need to move into employment and into better and more employment—and it is working. The claimant count has dropped from almost 1.5 million in 2010 to around 800,000 now. Unemployment is down by more than 900,000 since 2010, as the economy has grown. We are at near record levels of employment across the country.

As the needs of our claimants have changed, so have our jobcentres, and rightly so. The way that the Department is delivering its services is changing in response to significant societal trends. The Department continues to make the most of the opportunity technology brings and more services are moving online, reflecting that increase in digital capability and accessibility. Eight out of 10 claims for jobseeker’s allowance are made using digital channels and almost 90% of universal credit claims are currently made online.

There are several examples where the Department is working in shared Government facilities or with local authorities and other local partners. The hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Anne McLaughlin) and my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) both mentioned co-location and talked about hubs where we can bring services together and make local arrangements that bring—

[Chris Stephens]

rose—

[Natalie McGarry]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Caroline Nokes]

When I have been visiting jobcentres up and down the country, I do not recognise a toxic brand. In fact, I recognise very hard-working staff who champion the successes that they have had and the jobs that they have helped people into.

[Chris Stephens]

If co-location is such a good thing, why was there no consultation with the local authorities and other public bodies in Glasgow before the announcement of the jobcentre closures? Co-location could have been a solution to the issue.

[Caroline Nokes]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Of course the DWP works hard with the Scottish Government and other local authorities to ensure that we investigate opportunities. I am conscious that, in Glasgow, outreach and co-location services are already provided at Anniesland College. I want to see more of that. Outreach provides one of the solutions to helping jobseekers where they are, rather than expecting them to travel to centres. The working environments are good, more of the services that customers use when there is co-location are in one place and it can cost considerably less to run services. We are building on partnerships with local organisations to expand that range. As I mentioned, in Glasgow, we work closely with Anniesland College to offer services, including helping claimants with their job searches and offering benefit advice.

DWP Policies and Low-income Households

Chris Stephens Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Damian Hinds]

As the House knows, narrowing the disability employment gap is an absolutely priority for this Government, and I am pleased to say that we are now making progress on that, but there is a great deal more to be done—nobody denies that. We must ensure that there are more opportunities available to people with disabilities, including through our jobcentre network, but part of that is making sure that the right services are available and that we have the resources in place to be able to afford the people, facilities and courses that can help support those people.

The claimant count has dropped from almost 1.5 million in 2010 to around 800,000 now. In some cases we are using only 25% of the floor space in sites we are renting. That is 25% of the value for 100% of the rent. Every penny that we spend on space under Labour’s PFI is money that could be going back into the public purse, helping to protect vital services.

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

rose—

[Damian Hinds]

I am going to have to ask the hon. Gentleman for his forgiveness.

Those services and support include our own, because we are expanding what we do. In fact, we expect to have over 2,000 more work coaches in 2018 than we have today. In deciding what changes it is reasonable to make to the estate, we have carefully considered the impact on claimants, including travel times. We think that it is reasonable to ask somebody to attend a new jobcentre that is either less than three miles away from their existing jobcentre, or 20 minutes away by public transport. Of course, many claimants, including constituents of many Members on the Opposition Benches, travel considerably further than that, as of course do many people in work.

The UK Government have devolved powers for existing benefits worth some £2.7 billion to the Scottish Government. Scotland can also top up benefits and create new benefits. With that, of course, comes the corresponding responsibility and accountability. I was interested to note that the Scottish Government are returning to fortnightly payments and direct payments to landlords. We firmly believe that we should minimise the difference between the out-of-work welfare support system and the world of work to facilitate people’s transition into work. Few employers pay fortnightly and even fewer have a direct relationship with their employees’ landlords. We believe that our system, which still allows for alternative payment arrangements when required for vulnerable customers, is the right approach, but we appreciate that the Scottish Government have a different view. It will be interesting to see how the two approaches deliver. We shall see.

This Government’s record speaks for itself. Poverty is down, child poverty is down and the deficit is down. We had the fastest-growing G7 economy in 2016 and 2.8 million more people are now in work. We are all about a strong economy and a supportive, effective welfare system with work for those who can, help for those who could and care for those who cannot. Taken together, universal credit and our continued reform of Jobcentre Plus will provide the modern, effective and compassionate welfare system we need to continue to deliver on this promise: an economy and a society that work for all.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

As always, it is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Charnwood (Edward Argar), but he made the same mistake as many of his colleagues who have spoken today. They have merged the Orwellian with the Dickensian. Let me say to the Thatcherites among them that St Francis of Assisi has not had a look in. Marie Antoinette was a philanthropist in comparison with this Government.

I want to raise two issues, because I do not want them to be swept under the Axminster before the debate ends. I refer to the telephone tax, which my hon. Friend the Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Drew Hendry) mentioned. Those who need to phone the Department for Work and Pensions must pay 45p a minute, and, as my hon. Friend said—this is also the experience of my constituents—it costs them between £9 and £16 to make calls just to gain access to the money to which they are entitled because they have not been paid on time. It really is time that that tax ended.

Why did the Government ignore the clear advice of their own Social Security Advisory Committee, which told them that it would be best to make those numbers 0800 numbers so that the calls would be free? I was told that that would cost £7 million and that the telephony system was being upgraded to include the option of advice on potential wait times for customers. We should picture the scene: someone who is spending 45p a minute on a phone call being told, “You will be answered in 45 minutes.”

I was amazed to hear that, according to Government Members, closing Glasgow’s jobcentres is a good thing. They said that we have not talked about people getting into work. How are people going to get back into work if 50% of the jobcentres in Glasgow are closed? Why has there only been an announcement of jobcentre closures in Glasgow? Glasgow should not be the guinea pig for the Government’s experiment. Why has there not been an equality impact assessment? Why are we not measuring the impact this will have on the disabled or on women with childcare responsibilities, for instance? No consideration at all is being given to the cost impact on people living off the minimum that the Government provide for day-to-day survival.

I urge all Members to support the motion.