European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 22nd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. While it would be good if the World Trade Organisation was signing more multilateral trade deals, there has not been a successful round for 22 years. So if we are interested in driving free trade and market access in the world today, we need to be part of a bloc that can sign good and effective deals. We have seen that with Korea and with Singapore, and we now need to see it with all the other countries that the EU is doing these deals with. As I have said, of course outside the EU we can sign deals, but the information I have from country after country is “Yes, we’d do a deal but only after we’ve fixed our deal with the EU,” and that is likely to be a bigger deal and a better deal. So I think the argument on this trade deal issue very much goes one way.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

Britain has an enormous trade deficit with the rest of the EU, amounting to over £60 billion a year, equivalent to over 1 million jobs exported from Britain to the continent, half of them to Germany. Is it not obvious that the EU needs us much more than we need it and the last thing the EU is going to do is start a trade war with Britain?

[The Prime Minister]

The problem with the hon. Gentleman’s statistics is this: obviously, 50% of our trade is with the EU, but if we take the EU as a whole only about 7% of its trade is with us. So were we to leave the EU and then contemplate the negotiation that would follow, clearly we would not be in the stronger position. I think that is important. The second point I would make—I made this point earlier—is that, yes, we have a trade deficit in goods, but we have a massive trade surplus in services and it is in the single market in services where the prospects for progress are greatest today. So there would be a danger if we were to leave that maybe we would get that deal on goods relatively quickly because of our deficit, but if they held up the deal on services where would all our service companies be? Where would those jobs be? What would we say to those companies about how long it could take to get a deal to safeguard the incomes and prospects of families across our country?

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Tuesday 5th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We have just achieved the biggest return of powers since Britain joined the European Union, which is the opt-out from Justice and Home Affairs, where 100 measures came back to Britain. We have seen exactly the same, and we will see more, with regard to the eurozone, where we want to make absolutely sure that we suffer no disadvantage, we cannot be involved in bail-out schemes, and the British position is protected. That is a return of power. Look at what we are trying to achieve on deregulation, where we are saying that we need deregulation targets and cuts in regulation—that is about powers coming back to Britain. If you look at what we are saying about a subsidiarity test where every year the European Council should be asking, “Are these powers and these areas of powers still necessary, and can they be returned?, “you see that the whole aim of this renegotiation is to say, “Yes, we are part of a European Union that is reformed and that can achieve greater prosperity and greater security for Britain, but we are doing it as a proud nation state with institutions that serve the people who put us here.”

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

The recent elections in Portugal and Spain have seen a surge in support for left-wing Eurosceptic parties and have seen right-wing EU-supportive parties losing their grip on power. Has the Prime Minister detected levels of concern among his fellow EU leaders about these developments?

[The Prime Minister]

We are all democracies, so we accept the results in each other’s elections. I am happy to say that here, a Government who took difficult decisions over the economy and the deficit actually achieved a higher share of the vote at the election than they did at the previous one; there are benefits from spelling these things out. I am committed to working with the new Portuguese Prime Minister. We will see what emerges in Spain. I work very closely with Prime Minister Rajoy, who did a very good job for his country in difficult circumstances. These election results show how we need reform in Europe. We need the competitiveness, we need the jobs, and we need the ability to compete against the rest of the world so that we can create jobs and wealth as we are doing here in Britain.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 19th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I can certainly give my hon. Friend that assurance. Let me make a serious point to the bishops. To those organisations that want to help us to house, clothe, feed, school and look after these 20,000 people I say please help us to provide the very best welcome we can. I am sure the Church can play an important role in that.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

On 29 June, the Prime Minister set out 24 pledges for his renegotiation of UK membership of the EU. It seems that 14 of those pledges have been dropped, and most of the other 10 are unlikely to be accepted at the EU, with some requiring treaty change. The promised November letter is already looking a bit thin, so can I offer to help him put a bit more substance in it?

[The Prime Minister]

I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman, who has never wavered in his view that everything to do with the European Union is wrong and we need to get out of it—he has been pretty clear about that. I have been very consistent. He can read in our manifesto what we want to change in Europe, and that is exactly what our four points are all about.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 23rd March 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I would say to my hon. Friend, who I know cares passionately about this issue, as I do, that we are one of the few countries in Europe to meet 2%. We have met it through this Parliament, and we are meeting it this year and next year. He has very specific guarantees about a full replacement for Trident, a £160 billion equipment programme that will go up in real terms each year and no further reductions in regular personnel in our armed forces. I think those are bankable assurances, which will resonate on the doorsteps as he goes house to house.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

Even at this late stage, I think that the Prime Minister might thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) for keeping us out of the euro. As he knows, the euro has been sinking like a stone in recent weeks and there are terrible stresses inside the eurozone, arising from the rigidities of the euro. Is not the only serious solution to dissolve the euro and recreate national currencies? Is he not in a strong position to say that?

[The Prime Minister]

I believe strongly in maintaining our national currency, but it is not a realistic option to tell all other countries in Europe which currency they should use. Many of them are hugely enthusiastic about the euro. However misguided I feel that is, arguing that they should all break up their currency is not a viable option. Obviously, being in the euro and not being able to devalue have damaged Greece’s ability to respond to the problems, but we cannot lay all the problems with the Greek economy at the door of the euro. Greece has a long history of not making structural reforms, having ludicrously early retirement ages—[Interruption.]—having problems with its working practices and all the rest of it. The hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) asks what is wrong with ludicrously early retirement ages. He has enjoyed making such comments from a sedentary position for many, many years and I am sure that he will do so for many years to come. There is a slight irony there.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 23rd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think the best way to answer my right hon. Friend’s question is to say that that will, of course, depend on what happens next in terms of the Russian-backed separatists and Russia itself. What happened in Debaltseve—after the Minsk agreement was signed—should teach a lesson to anybody who thinks that this is going to be easily solved and that Russia will walk away. Frankly, if we see more behaviour like that, I think the argument at the European Council should be about how quickly can we renew the sanctions that we renewed later in the year anyway, and how quickly can we add to them. Certainly, that is the argument that Britain will make, and many others will make it with us. At the end of the day, as I have said from this Dispatch Box many times, Europe and America have to make the weight of our economic relationship pay against Russia. In the end, Russia needs us more than we need Russia. We need to make that relationship pay and then we can get it to change its approach.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

It is reported that the Government have been privately discussing the implications of a Greek exit from the euro. Greek exit will happen sooner or later, and it is inevitable, in my view, that other countries will follow. Has the Prime Minister discussed with his European counterparts the implications of such a wider collapse of the euro and, if so, what has emerged from those discussions?

[The Prime Minister]

I will be very frank about the discussions I have been having. I thought it was important to chair some discussions here in the UK about what the consequences of Greek exit from the eurozone would be, because there is a chance that it could happen. If it does happen, we would need to make sure that our banks were secure—which they are—that our businesses understood what the consequences of Greek exit would be and that we could support tourists, dual nationals and British people who live in Greece. Those are all important questions that we should consider. Some criticised me for holding those meetings, but, to be frank, I would argue that any responsible Prime Minister in any responsible European country should do exactly that.

There are mixed opinions about the question whether a Greek exit from the eurozone would be followed by other countries exiting, because the spread of bond yields between Spanish, Portuguese and other bonds and Greek bonds has been very different in recent months compared with 2011. I am clear about what my responsibility is: to encourage the eurozone countries to come to agreements that can get their economies to grow and the continent to stabilise, and, back at home, to be very clear that we are ready for any eventuality, including a Greek exit from the eurozone.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Wednesday 29th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am afraid the problem with my hon. Friend’s point is that his Bill is literally a bill: it would cost more than a billion pounds for the British taxpayer. That is why it would not be right to give it a money resolution. But if he believed in democracy, he would recognise that the European Union (Referendum) Bill passed this House with a massive majority and went into the House of Lords. We should reintroduce it as a Government Bill—that is what ought to happen.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

Q2. The tax gap has been calculated at a massive £119.3 billion, even a quarter of which would transform public finances, yet the Government have chosen to cut Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs’ staffing by more than 11,000 since 2010 and have utterly failed to close that tax gap. Instead, they are squeezing the poor and cutting the real wages of millions of low-paid workers. Are the Government simply protecting their fat-cat billionaire pals from paying their taxes?

[The Prime Minister]

Let me tell the hon. Gentleman what is actually happening on taxation: we have taken 3 million of the lowest-paid people out of tax altogether, and the fact that that means less work for HMRC is welcome; and the top 1% of taxpayers are paying 27% of all income tax—a higher percentage than ever happened under the last Labour Government.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 27th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We need to have a proper discussion about how we keep the country safe given all the risks we face and given that we have secured a massive act of repatriating powers from Brussels to Britain in the huge amount of opt-outs in justice and home affairs, which I am sure he supports. My point on the European arrest warrant is that we have made changes to it, so we can now refuse arrest warrants in minor cases. British judges are able to consider whether extradition is proportionate and can block any arrest warrant where the incident does not amount to a crime in UK law. Those things have changed since the arrest warrant was first put before the House.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

As has been long predicted, the eurozone is proving to be an economic disaster, dragging down both the European economy and the world economy. It now appears that 25 eurozone banks are on the brink of failure, and the long-term future of the euro is in serious doubt. Is the Prime Minister advising his colleagues—his fellow Prime Ministers in Europe—of the advantages of a national currency?

[The Prime Minister]

I think my colleagues in Europe well know my views about the euro. My point—I made it at the European Council—is that we need a combination of structural reforms to improve the performance of labour markets, the benefit of which we have seen here in the UK; setting and meeting targets on reducing budget deficits; and an active monetary policy, which has been hugely helpful here and in America. The steps we have seen in Europe are welcome but, frankly, I would like to see more.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Wednesday 22nd October 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. In her constituency, the youth claimant count is down by more than 50%, and we are on target to achieve 2 million apprentices during this Parliament, which is far better than anything achieved by the previous Government. For the next Parliament, the Conservative party has said it wants to achieve 3 million apprenticeships, and we have set out how we will pay for it—by continuing to reform welfare and reduce the benefit cap.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

Q4. Research by the Medical Research Council has found that more than 6,000 babies are born each year with birth defects and irreversible genetic damage caused by alcohol consumed in pregnancy. In Canada, the USA and other countries, all drinks containers must carry warnings about the dangers of birth defects, but our Government have so far refused to apply the same rule in Britain. Will the Prime Minister now change the Government’s policy and show that Britain cares as much about the well-being of children as Canadians and Americans do?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Like many MPs, I have met the organisation most concerned with foetal alcohol syndrome and the parents of those who have adopted children suffering from defects arising from the excessive intake of alcohol by their birth parents. I am happy to consider all his suggestions, and other suggestions, because this is a growing crisis in our country and we should do everything we can to stop it.

EU Council and Woolwich

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 3rd June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am very grateful for what my hon. Friend says. I have met the CST relatively regularly. It is an excellent organisation, and I commend the work that it does to keep people in our country safe. I will look carefully at its research and at his work to see what more we can do.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

Austerity policies are causing serious economic damage across the European Union. Among other things, they are causing mass unemployment, particularly among young people. We are now suffering from a threat of civil disorder, which has already started—even in peaceful Sweden. Was there any discussion at the EU Council of unemployment and the threat of civil disorder?

[The Prime Minister]

There was a discussion about unemployment because, of course, the rising unemployment in many European countries is an issue of huge concern. The rates of youth unemployment in some southern European countries, such as Spain, Portugal, Greece and Italy, are truly horrific, so more work will be done, including at the next European Council, to look at what lessons we can learn from each other—at what we can learn from countries such as Holland and Germany, which have very low rates of youth unemployment—and I will take a full part in those discussions.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 11th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is entirely right that it is only once every seven years that we have the unanimity lock that enables us to achieve a deal such as this one. I do not share his view that Britain would be better off outside the European Union, but I accept what he says: we need to convince people that Europe and the bureaucracy live on a tight budget. We have taken some steps forward, but I am not satisfied with where we have got to with regard to the costs of the Commission or the other central costs. Six per cent. is still too high and, just as Government Departments here have made and are planning huge savings between 2010 and 2015, the same should apply in Brussels, too.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

The future of the euro remains extremely uncertain. Indeed, a wobble in the markets only last week shows how brittle it is. Are there still European politicians who believe that the euro was a good idea and that it is now safe?

[The Prime Minister]

The answer is yes. As I have said—we have had this exchange before—I have never supported Britain’s membership of the euro and never will. We are better off outside it, but we have to understand the fact that, for some European leaders and politicians, the euro is an article of faith and they will do everything they can to save their currency. That is why I think we should be planning on the basis of change in Europe; the eurozone requires changes to make sense of its currency, and we should use that opportunity to win changes that are good for countries outside the euro, too.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 17th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I greatly respect my hon. Friend’s views on and knowledge of this issue. I was not claiming that we had changed the treaty. The point that I was making was that a number of people in the European Union, including the Commission at one stage, had said that it was impossible to write new rules to deal with circumstances in which some were in the single currency and some were outside it, but we had persevered. We said “If you want to go ahead with banking union, this really is essential”, and that is why there is effectively a new system. If more than four countries are outside the banking union, there must be a double majority in favour of a proposal: a majority of those outside, and a majority of those inside.

I am not claiming that we have rewritten the treaties, or that this is a new treaty change; it is not. However, I think that it is a step forward to deal with a deep problem that Europe will have as the single currency integrates further and those outside it want to ensure that they are properly protected.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

I am one of those who very strongly take the view that Greece, Spain and Italy can recover economically only if they leave the euro and recreate their own currencies and have their own interest rates. Was there any private discussion about the effect of the imminent departure of Signor Monti and the re-entry into front-line politics of Signor Berlusconi on the future of Italy in the euro?

[The Prime Minister]

There was not any open discussion about that issue, although I understand that Signor Berlusconi was in Brussels on the day of the European Council. My view is that these are issues for the countries in question. We can all have our views about the economic position of these countries, or indeed the political choices they make, but in the end, if we believe in democracy, we have to allow the Greek, Italian and Spanish voters to elect Governments who reflect their views. That is the way it has to work.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 26th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. He is completely right to talk about the importance of working with other countries. I commend him on all the very good joint working that he managed to do in encouraging colleagues to go and campaign in the Corby by-election.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister and my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition made much talk of agriculture today. Is it not time to call for the abolition of the common agricultural policy and the restoration of agricultural subsidies to national Governments, not the European Union?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very interesting submission to the balance of competences review that this Government are carrying out, and I urge him to engage fully with that process.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Wednesday 18th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. I am happy to look at the issue of postal voting, but first we need to sort out individual voter registration. This is vital to make sure that we do not have a system that allows lots of people to be logged on to a housing register when actually nobody is living there at all. There is growing evidence of abuse and concern, and it is right that we are acting on it.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

10. Two years ago, in his pensioner pledge, the Prime Minister said:“it is fundamental to me that people who have worked hard all their lives, and are now drawing their pension, deserve to be treated with respect.”Does he really think that trying to sell his granny tax as a “simplification” is treating pensioners with respect?

[The Prime Minister]

Let me explain what we are doing for pensioners. We are increasing the basic state pension by £5.30 a week this April; that is not an increase that Labour would have made. At the same time, we are saving the winter fuel payments, the cold weather payments, the free television licence, the free bus pass, and the other pensioner benefits. That is what this Government are doing. At the same time, we are examining the case for a single-tier pension of around £140 each. I would have thought that Members in all parts of the House welcomed that, because it would be a well-paid basic state pension that encouraged people to save before they became pensioners, and a thoroughly welcome reform.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 5th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Let me try to shed some more light on that. The position is this. I think there are some major legal question marks over what the 25 EU members have signed up to. However, the best thing for Britain to do, instead of going for an outright legal challenge—which might be partly successful—is to say, “We have our misgivings and concerns. We’ve reserved our position, but we won’t challenge, so long as you are sticking to the elements of fiscal union and not the single market.” I have given this considerable thought and I think that that is the right way forward, not least because there are some things being done in the agreement that the EU treaties give permission for, because they allow member states, as my hon. Friend will know—he is a great expert on this—to do things together under some circumstances. Therefore, the legality is not completely black and white. That is why I think it is in Britain’s interest to use our leverage to make sure that those involved stick to the fiscal union and do not get involved in the single market.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

There are newspaper reports that the Prime Minister is one of a group of four Conservative EU leaders who are proposing to ostracise François Hollande, who is soon to be the socialist President of France. Given that Monsieur Hollande is more of a Euro-realist than President Sarkozy, would it not be sensible to work positively with him, instead of against him?

[The Prime Minister]

I can confirm that I am not part of any secret pact. I basically take a pretty straightforward approach, which is that it is not normal practice to see candidates in the middle of an election. I have made exceptions on occasion, but I am not going to make an exception in this case.

Informal European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Tuesday 31st January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

In the last few days, the Greek Government have said that they refuse to have their economic governance taken over by the European Union. Does the Prime Minister support the Greeks in that, and if so, will he say so here and now?

[The Prime Minister]

The only way I can answer that question is to say that the Greeks have to decide themselves whether they want to stay in the euro. If they do, they have clearly got to meet some pretty exacting targets for reducing Government deficit, reducing Government debt and accepting a very austere approach. If Greece wants to stay in the euro, those are the conditions it will have to meet. I am not Greek; I am British. We have made our decision to stay out of the euro; this is their decision, and we should not tell them what to do.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 12th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I do not think what happened last week will have any impact on that decision because these issues are dealt with properly in the single market, and an organisation set up outside the EU cannot cut across existing treaties or existing legislation. We should work very hard to make sure we get a good deal for the North sea.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

The great former Labour politicians Peter Shore and Bryan Gould both said that the single currency would fail, and they have been proved absolutely right. Does the Prime Minister accept that the choice is between a controlled deconstruction of the euro or an uncontrolled crash, and will he make this point to his European colleagues?

[The Prime Minister]

What I would say to the hon. Gentleman is that “I told you so” is not an economic policy. I have every sympathy with what he says. I have never supported Britain joining the euro because a single currency implies a single economic policy and a single fiscal policy, and trying to run those things across different democracies is so incredibly difficult. That is what they are struggling with, but if I am asked what is Britain’s interest today, I would say that it is for the eurozone to sort out its problems. A break-up of the eurozone would have very severe consequences for banks across Europe and also for banks here in Britain, and could trigger some very, very difficult economic times. In spite of what the hon. Gentleman says, we should be working constructively to encourage eurozone countries to do what is necessary, particularly in the short term, to stabilise a difficult situation.

G20

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 7th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend asks an important question. It goes back to the question that the Father of the House asked, about the actions of the ECB. The ECB has been intervening in markets and buying bonds of countries that are under pressure. That is what makes it so difficult to understand why some in Europe are so opposed to the ECB being more of a monetary activist, if I could put it that way. The key with Italy—everyone should be careful about speculating about another country—and the point I made in my statement is that Italy must demonstrate that it has a credible fiscal path. That is as much about the confidence of the markets that it will be able to pay its deficit and pay its debts. If it can do that, its interest rates will fall.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

The door marked “Exit from the eurozone” is now clearly in view and a number of eurozone states are moving inexorably towards it. Is it not obvious that until those states can recreate their own national currencies and find an appropriate parity for those currencies, they will not recover?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman refers principally, I think, to Greece. That is an issue that the Greeks have to decide themselves. They have been offered a deal that writes down their debts and can enable them to stay in the single currency; it is their decision whether to take that road or to take another road. The only thing I would say to Members of the House who are deeply sceptical about a single currency, of whom I am one, is that we should be very careful to recognise that countries leaving a single currency can cause all sorts of knock-on effects and problems for other economies, including our own. We should not see it as some sort of painless easy option for a country to fall out of the euro. It would have very real consequences for other countries, including our own, and we have to think about that in that context.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I shall certainly look closely at what my hon. Friend says. I know that the Justice Secretary is doing this too. We want to move ahead with a mandatory sentence for adults, and we shall look very closely at the arguments that my hon. Friend makes.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

Q10. Sir John Major said four days ago that the Government should use the euro crisis as an opportunity to loosen EU powers over Britain. His first priority was the common fisheries policy. When will the Prime Minister take Sir John’s advice and tell the EU that Britain intends to withdraw from the CFP?

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 27th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We do agree with those companies and want Europe to move to that target. We have supported that and put it in our own carbon budget in this country. I think that that is the right way ahead.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

Recent press reports indicate that 15 member states are questioning the wisdom of Schengen. Indeed, Denmark has reintroduced passport controls with Germany and Sweden. Were there any further discussions on the issue over the weekend, and is there any possibility of moving away from Schengen over the next few years?

[The Prime Minister]

There was a very lengthy discussion on the Schengen issues, and clearly there is some unhappiness among Schengen members about some of the pressures they face. There was a particularly long discussion about the fact that Romania and Bulgaria feel that they have now qualified for membership of Schengen and want to see that membership advanced. There are pressures within the Schengen area that clearly do not apply to the UK, but it is clear that some of the northern members feel that Schengen has not been operating in their interests in the same way in recent years, but the Council’s conclusions were pretty clear that Schengen is working and will continue.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Wednesday 4th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Part of the rebate was given up and it was not given up for any proper promise in return. We were told that there would be a promise of real reform of the common agricultural policy and that did not appear. That shows me that we have to be incredibly tough in the budget negotiations this year and next so that when we go into the financial framework for the next seven or eight years we ensure that we keep the costs of this organisation under control.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

Q9. The Government’s savage cuts are set to destroy some half a million jobs in the public sector and, according to PricewaterhouseCoopers, a similar number in the private sector. With thousands more on the dole, paying no taxes and dependent on benefits, the deficit will increase rather than reduce. As sure as night follows day, we will see a collapse in the housing market, a collapse in support for the Tories and a return to Labour government. Will the Prime Minister enjoy saying goodbye to most of his colleagues and sitting on this side of the House?

[The Prime Minister]

I thought the hon. Gentleman was from Luton, but he sounds like he is from fairy dairy land. Let me remind him that compared with this time last year 400,000 more people are in jobs in the private sector. That is what has happened through our getting the deficit under control, getting the economy growing and ensuring that we deal with the mess we were left by the Opposition.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think that there are lessons to be learned. As I have said, I think that it was right to respond to what Libya did in terms of weapons of mass destruction, but I do not think that the way in which that response was handled was right. Too much credulity was shown, particularly over issues such as that of Abdelbaset al-Megrahi, the man who was convicted of the biggest mass murder in British history. Universities will also want to ask themselves, as they are doing, some pretty searching questions about what they did.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

Q12. The Nobel prize-winning economist Paul Krugman has said that the Government’s economic policy is going in precisely the wrong direction. Does the Prime Minister really wish to be remembered as a reincarnation of President Herbert Hoover, whose policies led directly to the great depression of the 1930s, and to leave the future open to our leader to be a new Roosevelt and lead us away from that?

[The Prime Minister]

As a job application, that was at the greasy end of the spectrum, I think. I prefer to listen to the head of the OECD, who is in London today, and who has said:

“I think dealing with the deficit is the best way to prepare the ground for growth in the future.”

When it comes to the question of who supports this Government’s policy, we have the OECD, the International Monetary Fund, the Federation of Small Businesses, the CBI and the Bank of England. When the shadow Chancellor was asked recently, “Who supports your economic policy?”, there was a long pause and he finally replied, “The Guardian.” I will keep my supporters, and you can keep yours.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 20th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

To be fair to other countries in Europe, the conversation around the Council table is very much about the action that everyone is having to take. Britain has set quite a pace in setting out a five-year programme about how we are going to do this and what we have seen in Britain is market interest rates coming down since the election, whereas in other European countries they have sometimes gone up. What is required is some credible fiscal plans. Fiscal consolidation alone will not settle down the eurozone but that has to be a part of it.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

It is clear that, despite everything the European Union has done, the euro is still in crisis—and that crisis will not end any time soon. Has the Prime Minister been aware of or involved in any private discussions about how the euro might be deconstructed in a controlled way?

[The Prime Minister]

We had a very good discussion at the dinner, which involved all EU members, not just eurozone members. As someone who has never supported Britain’s joining the euro and who has always had concerns that the currency area was not optimal—as I said in my statement, I would make the argument that with a single currency, a move towards a single fiscal policy was needed, but that was never done—I must say it is profoundly not in Britain’s interest to see the break-up of the eurozone. If that happened, there would be very bad consequences not just for eurozone countries, but for Britain. We should take a hard-headed, practical view and recognise that 44% of our exports go to eurozone countries. If that broke up, it would be bad for Britain. We should be making positive suggestions about what eurozone countries can do to make sure that they get the stability and growth that we all need. There is fiscal consolidation, active monetary policy, cleaning up bank balance sheets, getting ahead of the markets and showing that we want this to be a success. That is what needs to happen and, as I say, standing on the sidelines and saying, “Well, we told you this wasn’t a great idea” is not the right approach.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 1st November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

It is clear that a number of member states are unlikely to be able to sustain their membership of the euro for the long term. They are already suffering serious internal economic damage, some requiring external fiscal transfers, and other countries may be in the same position in the not-too-distant future. Was there any talk, privately or otherwise, of the possibility of member states leaving the euro, so making it work better?

[The Prime Minister]

I do not believe that will happen, but what was interesting about this European Council is that there is quite an existential debate taking place within the eurozone about what it means to be a member of the euro. There is a very strong push by the Germans, who obviously feel that they have had to bail out the Greeks, that they have to have tighter rules for members of the eurozone, and there are very great worries on the part of some countries about the sanctions that could be applied to them. This is a debate that was inevitable when there is one currency and many countries and they are having to give up some of their sovereignty to make that single currency work. It is perfectly logical for eurozone members. It reinforces in my mind that they are right to do that, but we are right not to be part of it.

G8 and G20 Summits

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Monday 28th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I had very positive meetings with President Hu of China and President Medvedev of Russia. We discussed, particularly in the Russian meeting at quite some length, the Iranian situation. It is encouraging that the Russians have voted for the sanctions resolution in the UN—resolution 1929—and it is important to show a united face to the Iranians about the unacceptability of their acquiring a nuclear weapon. The point is that nobody wants military action, by Israel or anyone else, to take place, and that is all the more reason for taking the sanctions route and trying to maximise the pressure and change the balance for Iran, to raise the costs for it of having a nuclear weapon. That is what this is all about.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

Almost 80 years ago, countries across the world adopted policies of fiscal tightening and gave us the inter-war depression—the slump, with millions of people thrown out of work. We are now adopting policies of collective deflation. Is the Prime Minister not at all fearful that history might repeat itself and that we might see millions back unemployed?

[The Prime Minister]

It is quite difficult to talk about deflation when monetary policy is as loose as it is and when interest rates are as low as they are. This is where, with respect, the Labour party has not understood enough of the argument. We have to tighten fiscal policy in the UK. We are borrowing 11% of our gross domestic product. If we started borrowing more, or indeed we stood still, we could face the situation that others in Europe face—it is that serious—so where the demand should come from is by the combination of a fiscal tightening but with loose monetary policy. That is not the same thing that happened in the 1930s. The additional mistake made in the 1930s was to have trade wars, and hon. Members could hear from my statement just how hard this country is fighting to ensure that that does not happen.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Kelvin Hopkins

Wednesday 9th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I should be happy to consider that. I recall that it has been an issue in the past for constituencies surrounding Heathrow airport, and that mechanisms were introduced in an attempt to alleviate some of the burdens. I will ensure that Home Office Ministers get in touch with my hon. Friend so that we can deal with this problem.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

Q8. The European Commission recently reported that European fish stocks were being fished at unsustainable levels, and that 30% were close to collapse. Will the Prime Minister negotiate with European colleagues to seek the abandonment of the common fisheries policy, and, if they do not agree, give notice of Britain’s withdrawal from the CFP?