Report of the Iraq Inquiry

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Wednesday 6th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think your country should always come before your party. I am not a huge believer in arm-twisting, but there are sometimes occasions when you believe a course of action to be profoundly right and you want to try to persuade your colleagues. I persist in the view that it would have been better to take action with the United States against Assad after his use of chemical weapons—when he crossed that red line—and I attempted to persuade my colleagues. I do not think that I physically twisted anybody’s arm—it was more mental persuasion. I was not successful on that occasion, but that does not mean that it was not worth trying.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

Hundreds of thousands of deaths, a region destabilised, a generation radicalised, a House deceived by a fabricated case for war—all of that is indelibly linked with one man, who may as well have “Iraq” tattooed on his forehead. Someone must be held to account for what has happened over the course of the past few years.

[The Prime Minister]

As I have said, everyone has to account for their actions, such as the people who voted for this and the people who proposed it, and for the failure to plan. There is a whole set of arguments in this document that people want to consider to see how best to hold people to account.

Outcome of the EU Referendum

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Monday 27th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Let me first congratulate my hon. Friend on his long campaign. I think that when we look at the reaction of the European Union to these events, we should be careful not to view it entirely through the filter of media outlets that want to see only one reaction. What I sense from the conversations I have had with the Germans, the French, the Poles, the Italians and others is that they are genuinely sad to see the United Kingdom go. They genuinely want to have a good and strong relationship with us when we leave. Obviously, however, they, like us, have to think of their own interests, just as we think of our own interests. The fact that the 27 member states will meet without the United Kingdom after the European Council should not be seen as surprising. In fact, many of us said that that would happen if we were to leave. We will fight like mad for our interests, but they will fight for theirs. We have to try to convince them and try to maintain in ourselves good, open and strong relations so that this becomes a dialogue leading to a mutually beneficial result rather than a war of words or something worse that then leads to a painful divorce.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

The Prime Minister’s response to my right hon. Friend the Member for Moray (Angus Robertson) was quite simply woeful. Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the European Union—62% of voters, and every local authority in Scotland. We value our EU membership. We are a unitary nation. What does the Prime Minister now say to the people of Scotland, who believe that we should remain within the European Union? What do we do now?

[The Prime Minister]

What we do now is make sure that we get the very best outcome from this negotiation, so that it is good for the United Kingdom and good for Scotland. It is all very well the hon. Gentleman waving his finger, but that is actually what matters most to the people of Scotland.

Debate on the Address

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Wednesday 27th May 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am all for encouraging as many U-turns as possible from the Labour party; that will mean that our majority of 10 or 12 will be far, far bigger. We should encourage them to join us in the Lobbies—[Interruption.] I can hear the Chief Whip enthusiastically endorsing that. I am not sure that the British people will forget. If we had listened to the Labour party, there would be no renegotiation and there would be no referendum—there would be no choice.

This Queen’s Speech will also modernise and strengthen our United Kingdom. It includes Bills on devolution for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. These Bills will deliver on all the promises made to people in each of those countries in our United Kingdom. We will also ensure fairness for English voters, through English votes for English laws.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

rose—

[The Prime Minister]

I am happy to give way to the hon. Gentleman.

[Pete Wishart]

I am very grateful to the Prime Minister for giving way. Can he confirm that there will be a piece of legislation—a Bill—for English votes for English laws? Surely he is not even contemplating bringing something so significant constitutionally under the Standing Orders of the House.

[The Prime Minister]

What we will do, in terms of English votes and English laws, is exactly what is set out in our manifesto—copies available from all good bookshops. That will involve a vote here in the House of Commons, and I think that is right.

I look forward to taking on the arguments from those who want to break up our country. Frankly, they have received little scrutiny until now. Devolution is not just about getting new powers; it is also about the responsibility of how those powers are used. I would say to the Scottish National party that if it is not happy with decisions made here in Westminster and if it wants more taxes, spending and borrowing, it can now introduce those measures in Scotland. It is time for the SNP to stop talking and start acting.

Let me respond very directly to something important that the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham said, which was that in this Parliament there will also be the opportunity for the SNP to set out what it means by full fiscal autonomy. I am clear about what that means: it means raising 100% of what it spends. That means asking Scottish people to pay almost an extra £10 billion in taxes or making almost an extra £10 billion in additional cuts by the end of this Parliament. That is £5,000 of higher taxes or additional cuts for every single family in Scotland. That is the true price of the SNP. It is ironic that the party in this House that claims to represent Scotland advocates a worse deal for Scotland than the rest of us do. People who want the best for every nation of our United Kingdom should fight for a Union with solidarity at its heart. That is something that I will always do because I am proud to lead the Conservative and Unionist party.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Monday 23rd March 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his question. We discussed the employment situation across Europe and I was able to give a very strong report on what is happening in Britain: the 1,000 jobs that are being created every day and the plummeting levels of unemployment and youth unemployment. I said that that is evidence of the combination of long-term structural changes and economic recovery. There are European countries with very high structural rates of unemployment that need to take action to deal with that.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

My party heartily congratulates David Natzler on his appointment. There could be no one more suitable and appropriate for this role in the House of Commons.

On the Tory European referendum, what will happen if the UK votes to leave the European Union, but Scotland votes to remain within it? Should the Scottish people just put up with being yanked out of Europe against their will? Would it not be better if all the siblings in the Prime Minister’s family of nations agreed individually before they were taken out of Europe?

[The Prime Minister]

What I want to know is, where are the rest of the Scot nats? They are preparing for power and writing Labour’s Budget. They are obviously very busy. What I would say about referendums is that the hon. Gentleman lost the first one and he will lose the next one.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Wednesday 26th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right. It is good that the hospital has been built, and roughly on time, but there is an issue with its operation. We are working intensively with Save the Children to ensure that it reaches its full capacity and full use. We are building other facilities across Sierra Leone, as well as community centres, of course, because we need all those facilities to bring Ebola under control.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

Q5. Prime Minister, we are living in the early days of a UKIP UK in which Farage and company pull all the strings in this House. Pandering to UKIP has been a disaster for the Prime Minister and for the Tory party, as even a cursory look at the opinion polls shows. Is it not time to stand up to its pernicious agenda and take it on? My country might be dragged out of Europe against its will because of this UKIP-ification. How could that possibly be right?

[The Prime Minister]

There is something that the hon. Gentleman’s party and UKIP have in common: they seek to divide people. We stand for the United Kingdom and bringing people together.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Monday 30th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

That was an ingenious segue from my hon. Friend. I think that it is absolutely clear from what we have seen today that if the Leader of the Opposition was in negotiations like this and the going got tough and it looked like the vote would go against him, he would simply cave in.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

I am sure that the Prime Minister will want to take this opportunity to congratulate Stirling in Scotland on hosting an excellent armed forces day over the weekend. The Scottish people observed his ritual humiliation with a mixture of bemusement and horror as the UK edges ever closer toward the EU exit door. Is not the only way now for Scotland to secure its EU membership to vote yes decisively in September to stop him, his party and their UK chums dragging Scotland out of Europe against its will?

[The Prime Minister]

First, on a note of unity, I join the hon. Gentleman in congratulating the city of Stirling, the local authority and all those involved on an absolutely brilliant Armed Forces day. With regard to the reactions of people in Stirling to the stand I had taken in the European Union, I must say that I thought they were uniformly positive.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Monday 10th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The best way that Britain can help to de-escalate this crisis is by encouraging a talks process. That is why we came up with the idea of a contact group to help Russia and Ukraine talk to each other in the company of important European powers and organisations, and that is what we should push very hard. However, I take issue with my hon. Friend’s description of the Ukrainian Government. The Ukrainian Parliament had to react to the fact that the President left the country, and it took constitutional steps to put a transitional Government in place. That transitional Government have said it is important to respect the rights of Russian speakers and minorities, and they have had that point put to them by others as well. I do not think it is fair in any way to blame the European Union for this crisis. The European Union rightly has partnership and neighbourhood approaches to its neighbours but these are voluntarily entered into, and it is right that the European Union has those arrangements.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement and early sight of it. Notwithstanding his response to the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw), does he share my disappointment at the way the OSCE has been treated and prevented from carrying out an important task on the ground? What extra support can the UK Government give the OSCE to ensure that it does that vital task?

[The Prime Minister]

We will keep supporting the OSCE in the work that it does. The hon. Gentleman is right that the way potential observers and observer missions have been treated is appalling. They should be there; they play a vital role. We will do everything we can to support them. The fact that they are not being allowed in is a material consideration in thinking about the steps that we take next.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Wednesday 27th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that it is the best possible advertisement for his town. I have done a public meeting in his high street and know what a warm, interesting and varied reception you can get in the town of Rugby. It is hard to keep up at the moment with the quantity and quality of rugby union and rugby league games. I made a wager with the New Zealand Prime Minister that I would wear Kiwi cufflinks if they won in the rugby union match. I did so last week but fortunately nobody noticed.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

The Prime Minister has vowed to fight for the United Kingdom with his head, heart and soul, but when it comes to a debate it is some guts that he needs to find. We now have the blueprint for independence, and we know what his United Kingdom will look like. Will he now stop being a pathetic big feartie and get out and debate the issues with the First Minister?

[The Prime Minister]

I am enjoying the debate we are having now; that is where the debate should take place. Of course there should be a debate, including televised debates, but this is a debate between people in Scotland. This is not a debate between the leader of the Conservative party, or even the UK Prime Minister and the Scottish First Minister; it is a debate, rightly, between the leader of the no campaign and the leader of the yes campaign, and they should fight it out on the facts and on the issues. I know the hon. Gentleman wants to find every sort of distraction possible because when it comes to the economy, when it comes to jobs, and when it comes to Europe, all the arguments are for staying together. [Interruption.]

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Monday 28th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I will not be able entirely to satisfy my hon. Friend, which is always a difficult job. There is no doubt that green levies and charges add to consumer bills—the figure is over £100 and rising. I would argue that it is necessary to help some renewable technologies to get going, but the moment we can remove those levies is the moment that we should remove them. One of this Government’s first acts was to remove the £179 levy placed on every single bill by the renewable heat initiative, which was put in place by none other than the Leader of the Opposition.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

The Scottish people are of course pleased and delighted that the Prime Minister has found time to engage in debate with European leaders, but we are still wondering why he has been such a big fearty in refusing to debate with Alex Salmond, the First Minister of Scotland.

G20

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Monday 9th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Of course the Syrian issue was discussed, but the principal avenue of discussion was chemical weapons and the right response to their use. There were countries that supported the US motion and countries that did not. There was not an extensive discussion about how the Geneva II process could work, but all the countries around the table are broadly supportive of it.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

The Prime Minister has said that he will respect the view of the House on military action. All of us are eternally grateful for that. However, does he not feel bound by this House, given that this is a parliamentary democracy? Will he assure me and the rest of the nation that he will do nothing to compromise the very clear view of this House with respect to military action?

[The Prime Minister]

I am accountable to this House. The motion that I put to the House was defeated and the Leader of the Opposition’s motion was defeated. My interpretation of the House’s view was that British military action clearly was not favoured. As I have said, I respect that outcome.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Wednesday 12th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly join my right hon. Friend in praising the North sea oil and gas industry. It is a real jewel in the crown of the United Kingdom economy. What is encouraging is that this year we are seeing a growth in production, as a number of new fields and projects come on stream, but he is absolutely right to say that at all times safety and security are absolutely paramount.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Debate on the Address

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Wednesday 8th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Across the country, more people—1.25 million more—are in work, and 270,000 fewer are on out-of-work benefits. That is what is happening under this Government, and that is what we will continue to make progress on. There is a very serious point here. If we borrow more, spend more, and fail to get a grip on the deficit, we will say goodbye to the low interest rates that this Government have earned. Let us be clear about what that would mean: mortgage rates going up; business failures going up; repossessions going up. That is the price that every family in Britain would pay for Labour’s irresponsibility. Those are the consequences of having a Leader of the Opposition who is too weak to stand up to his shadow Chancellor. He has a long history of such weakness: too weak to stand up to his party on welfare; too weak to stand up to the unions on strikes; too weak ever to stand up to Gordon Brown when in government; too weak to apologise for the mess Gordon Brown made in government. He is the living embodiment of a new dictum: the weak are a long time in politics.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

The Prime Minister knows, and I know, that this parliamentary Session is all about the rise of UKIP. He called them loonies and closet racists. Does he have to be more loony to see them off?

[The Prime Minister]

The simple truth, at the next election, is if you want an in/out referendum on Europe, the only way to get it will be by supporting the Conservative party. That is clear. There are two major parties in the House that oppose a referendum, and there is one that will stand for a referendum. We will put that to the people at the next election.

The Queen’s Speech does not duck the tough challenges. We need to get the deficit down, so we will complete a spending review by the end of June. We will legislate to abolish needless bureaucracy such as the Audit Commission. We will pass laws to raise revenue by stopping tax abuse. We need to restore our competitiveness, so the Queen’s Speech includes a deregulation Bill to cut business costs, and a national insurance Bill to cut taxes for small businesses. We will press ahead with our high-speed rail Bill so that we get the infrastructure we need. Our intellectual property Bill will give us an up-to-date system of patents, including a key part of the European patent court right here in London.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Monday 2nd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I completely understand the view held by my hon. Friend and a number of other colleagues on our Back Benches either that we should want to get out straight away and so should have an in/out referendum straight away or, to be fair to him, that the change has been so fundamental that the referendum should be held sooner rather than later. I have set out my argument; I think it would be better not to do that immediately for the reasons I have given. I think that there is an opportunity for what I would call a fresh settlement and fresh consent that would be in the national interest of the whole United Kingdom.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

Well, it looks like we are going to have a referendum, maybe in two or three years’ time, and maybe there will be more than one question—a Euro-max option—and we do not know what the question will be, yet the Prime Minister has the gall and temerity to question the Scottish National Party’s referendum process. Does he believe that all this delay for two or three years will create a great deal of business uncertainty across the United Kingdom?

[The Prime Minister]

I have to say gently to the hon. Gentleman that there is a slight difference. As I understand it, his party has a very clear view that it wants to leave the United Kingdom, and fought an election in Scotland on having a referendum to do just that. What I am trying to do is help him to have that simple, single-question referendum so that the country can make a decision. I profoundly hope that Scotland will vote to stay in the United Kingdom, which I think would be in Scotland’s interests and in all our interests, but I have to say that we should not have to wait quite as long to get on with it as his First Minister wants.

Libya

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Monday 5th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Musa Kusa is helping the police with their inquiries into, for instance, the Yvonne Fletcher case, and they will go on having conversations with him. That will go ahead. Sir Peter Gibson’s inquiry can go wherever the evidence leads, and he can call for papers that he wants to see. The key things that he is looking at are the accusations of complicity in torture, rendition, malpractice or maltreatment.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

We in the Scottish National party join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to the brave men and women in our armed forces who have been involved in these operations. We also welcome the extension of Sir Peter Gibson’s inquiry, but does the Prime Minister believe that it will be enough to get to the bottom of these allegations of such truly awful and reprehensible acts? Will he, for example, be able to interview former Labour Ministers and ask what they knew about those operations? Will he also be able to make some sort of judgment about the activities and actions of the last Labour Government?

[The Prime Minister]

As I said, what Sir Peter Gibson will be able to do is call for papers and people, and question people about the decisions that they took. He is looking into accusations of complicity in mistreatment, rendition or torture, and all those things, and if Ministers, whether in the last Government or not, have questions to answer, they will then need to answer those questions. That is the correct way for these things to be done.

Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right: people do want us to get on with the other issues, particularly at a time when we need the economy to grow, we need to provide more jobs, and we have got to get to grips with problems with the cost of living. They want to see reforms in welfare and immigration. Yes, they want us to deal with this issue, but they want us to keep a perspective and a balance, and get on with many of the issues that this country needs to deal with.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

The Prime Minister is absolutely right to say that we need an all-party response to get to the bottom of the issues. Will he therefore ensure that all the minority parties—all the parties in the House—are consulted about the ongoing inquiries, not just the Labour Opposition? Will he take very seriously the responses from the devolved Administrations about the current inquiry?

[The Prime Minister]

We did consult the devolved Administrations about the terms of reference and about the inquiry. A number of points were made; it was not possible to include all of them, because sometimes they clashed with points made by other consultees, including the official Opposition. We tried to get the balance right, but I think anyone looking at the terms of reference will see that they cover all the ground and actually set out an extremely comprehensive and effective inquiry.

Treatment of Detainees

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Pete Wishart

Tuesday 6th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that this is a difficult process. Nobody wants to pay compensation that is not warranted. I would say two things to him, however. One is that it is getting increasingly difficult for the security services to defend themselves in the civil actions, because the information that they would use to defend themselves would then be made public. They do not want that to happen, so they do not bring the information forward and they cannot therefore win the case. The second thing that I would say to him is that the point about mediation is that it is a private process, and if we start advertising our mediation strategy—or, indeed, our mediation outcome—it is not necessarily going to make mediation very easy in future.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

I, too, very much welcome the statement, and I find it extraordinary that, after the Labour years, a Conservative Prime Minister is making it. The Prime Minister says that he does not want to be political, but perhaps I can encourage him just a little bit. Given the Labour party’s refusal, when in government, to accept claims of torture, and its various attempts to try to make all this go away, does he not believe that former Ministers and Secretaries of States should appear before the inquiry?

[The Prime Minister]

It will be a matter for the inquiry to decide who it wants to see as witnesses, and it will be able summon whoever it wants. Let me stress again that this is not some attempt to draw former Ministers into some great argument; that is not what it is about. If the inquiry wants to talk to Ministers to ask them what information made it, or did not make it, to their Departments, of course it can. Above all, this is a clear attempt to get to the bottom of what happened in those very difficult years in very difficult times when allegations were made which, as the hon. Gentleman says, need to be addressed. I am pleased that our new Government have set up what I think is the right process for doing that.