Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Priti Patel]

As I have said, the Government’s position has been made abundantly clear. If the hon. Gentleman missed the statement by the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on Monday, I will be more than happy to share it with him again.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

I start by echoing the comments of the Secretary of State and the leader of the Scottish National party, and pass on my heartfelt condolences to all those involved in the events in Brussels. We will defeat terrorism, but, as the Secretary of State said, it will take solidarity and resolve.

Last night, the House passed a Budget that was unprecedented. It contained a £4.4 billion black hole after the Chancellor was forced to reverse his decision to cut personal independence payments. The Government’s long-term economic plan is turning into a long-term economic scam. These savage cuts, following the £1,500 a year reduction in the employment and support allowance work-related activity group, affect over 60,000 Scots. Those cuts would have gone through had it not been for the resignation of the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith). Will the Minister guarantee that, when the Chancellor returns with revised public spending, no cuts will fall on the disabled and the most vulnerable?

[Priti Patel]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. I welcome his comments with regard to my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith). The Government have been very clear that we are not proceeding with the changes and we will not be seeking an alternative offset in savings.

[Ian Murray]

It is clear from that answer, and from the previous answer, that the Government now have absolutely no idea what to do. They are creating untold anxiety for the people in Scotland who are affected. Let me remind the House what the former Secretary of State said: that the cuts in the Budget risked dividing society, put pounds ahead of people and were distinctly political rather than in the national economic interest. Does the Minister agree with her former Cabinet colleague, and many on her own side, that the cuts to disabled people in Scotland are not defensible? Does she want to take this opportunity to apologise, on behalf of the Scottish Conservative party, to the tens of thousands of vulnerable and disabled Scots affected by this shambles?

[Priti Patel]

I reiterate that the Government’s position is fundamentally clear: there will be no further changes to disability payments. The hon. Gentleman will have realised that last night the Budget was passed by the House. That was right and proper. He, of all people, should recognise that the Government are delivering on the Smith commission and devolving powers to the Scottish Government. We look forward to working with the Scottish Government on welfare reform and the delivery of employment and support programmes for the benefit and the betterment of the Scottish people.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Wednesday 10th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

As my right hon. and learned Friend will recognise, the settlement in Spain is entirely different. I agree with him about the need for a sustainable fiscal framework, but, as the Government have made clear in the negotiations, we are willing to accept a review of the arrangements in a few years to ensure that they stand up to scrutiny, and are seen to be fair to both Scotland and to the rest of the United Kingdom.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

Mr Speaker, I join you in congratulating Andy Murray and Kim Sears on the birth of their baby daughter. However, their baby daughter might be winning Wimbledon by the time we get a deal on the fiscal framework. The UK and Scottish Governments have now been negotiating it for more than six months, which is longer than it took to negotiate the Scotland Bill itself, longer than it took to strike the historic international climate change agreement and longer than it took the G20 leaders to negotiate $1.1 trillion of support for the global economy. It is clearly the indexation model that is contentious, so will the Secretary of State tell the House why he thinks the per capita index model is not appropriate for the indexation of the block grant?

[David Mundell]

I have made it clear in previous discussions that we are not going to have detailed negotiations on this matter on the Floor of the House. I have also said that I very much welcome the fact that the First Minister has indicated that the Scottish Government are going to bring forward a revised proposal, just as we have done through the negotiations. I believe that we are within touching distance of striking a deal and I remain optimistic that we will do so.

[Ian Murray]

The Secretary of State says that he will not provide a running commentary on the fiscal framework, yet both Governments are providing exactly that. The respected economist Anton Muscatelli has said of the fiscal framework:

“I do not understand why it should be such a huge stumbling block.”

The constitutional expert Jim Gallagher has said:

“This fiscal framework is an eminently solvable problem.”

The Prime Minister has spent recent months shuttling around Europe trying to strike a deal on EU reform. Is it not time that he got involved and showed the same enthusiasm for striking a fair deal for Scotland in our own Union as he has shown for the European Union?

[David Mundell]

The Prime Minister is committed to securing a deal. He has spoken to Nicola Sturgeon about this issue and they have had productive discussions. They are now involved in an exchange of letters, but they are both quite clear that they now want a deal. I am confident, given the position set out in the letter from the First Minister that the Scottish Government are actively engaging in that negotiation process, as are we, that we will be able to get that deal.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Wednesday 6th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

I absolutely agree that the arrangements must be fair—fair to Scotland and fair to the rest of the United Kingdom. That is perfectly achievable. I do not want to provide a running commentary, but the negotiations and discussions that have taken place have been productive. For example, I absolutely agree with the comments of Mr Swinney to the Scottish Parliament Finance Committee —he clearly said that the Scottish Government should benefit from the positive decisions they take but accept the consequences of bad policy decisions. That should also apply to the UK Government in relation to our responsibilities.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

May I take this opportunity, Mr Speaker, to wish you and all the staff of the House, as well as the Secretary of State and his office, a happy new year? Mr Speaker, you would have thought that the pantomime season was over, but judging by today’s questions, it clearly is not—[Interruption.] Oh, yes, it certainly is. I was expecting that, from someone who has no jokes whatsoever. We could be questioning the Government on no shortage of things, but the Secretary of State has created this sham by keeping the fiscal framework secret. What is ludicrous is that the SNP Finance Secretary, who is negotiating the very fiscal framework that we are discussing, could be asked what is in it. It is clear that it is the people of Scotland who are being kept in the dark. I have asked the Secretary of State this before, but will he put an end to this pantomime of manufactured grievance and be completely transparent about the fiscal framework?

[David Mundell]

The Government are completely transparent about our position on the fiscal framework. We want it agreed as soon as possible and we want it to be scrutinised by both Parliaments. When I was in the Scottish Parliament recently I had the opportunity to meet Bruce Crawford, convener of the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee. He assured me that he is satisfied that in conjunction with the Finance Committee in the Scottish Parliament there will be adequate opportunity to scrutinise the fiscal framework. I am clear that there will be an opportunity in the other place to scrutinise it, and the Select Committee on Scottish Affairs is currently conducting an inquiry. I do not think that the people of Scotland will be in the dark in any way about the fiscal framework. It will achieve what we want it to achieve but it will also be subject to proper scrutiny.

[Ian Murray]

I do not think that the Secretary of State understands the process and how important this is. The Scotland Bill constitutes the biggest transfer of powers to Scotland ever, but the underpinning financial provisions are being hidden from the Scottish people. I have written to both Governments and questions have been asked in both Parliaments to try to get transparency, but the response from both Governments has been “no”. Meanwhile, the Scottish Government are threatening to veto the Bill. The danger is that while these negotiations are being conducted in secret, both Governments can blame each other with manufactured grievance, and it is the people of Scotland who will lose out. Will the Secretary of State at least assure us that in future negotiations as important as this on Scotland’s finances will be conducted with greater transparency and democratic scrutiny?

[David Mundell]

I have no grievance, manufactured or otherwise. I am confident that the Scottish Government want to achieve an agreement. The UK Government want to achieve an agreement based on fairness to Scotland and fairness to the rest of the United Kingdom. I give the hon. Gentleman an absolute commitment that the fiscal framework, as agreed, will be subject to full parliamentary scrutiny here in Westminster and in the Scottish Parliament.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Wednesday 4th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

Not only does the right hon. Gentleman not read written statements; he did not even listen to my answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman)—perhaps he will read Hansard. The reality is that the powers being delivered to the Scottish Parliament will make it the most powerful devolved Parliament in the world. Rather than SNP Members telling us what they will do with those powers, it is grievance and grudge. The Scottish Parliament acknowledges that tax credits can be topped up, so will the SNP top them up—yes or no?

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

I take the opportunity this Armistice weekend to pay tribute to our armed forces for their sacrifices to this country.

Scottish and UK Ministers have said repeatedly that the fiscal framework negotiations will be concluded this autumn. Will the Secretary of State explain to the House and the country why they have been delayed until January at the earliest?

[David Mundell]

As I set out in my written statement, the UK Government are proceeding towards the comprehensive spending review, which I am sure the hon. Gentleman accepts is a major task, and shortly thereafter the Scottish Government will proceed with the Scottish draft Budget. When I met the Deputy First Minister John Swinney last week, he gave me confidence in his wanting to reach a fiscal framework agreement. That is certainly the position of the UK Government, which is why I was able to answer the question from the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) in the way that I did.

[Ian Murray]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer, but Scotland’s First Minister has warned that the SNP Government may reject the Scotland Bill

“if the accompanying fiscal framework”

is not

“fair to Scotland”.

It is clear that they are looking for any excuse for the fiscal framework to delay further powers for Scotland. Will the Secretary of State assure us that the fiscal framework will be agreed before the Scottish Parliament is dissolved in March, and can he explain why both he and the SNP are conspiring to make this agreement the tartan TTIP—the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership—delivered behind closed doors with no public transparency? That raises the question of what they are trying to hide.

[David Mundell]

As the hon. Gentleman well knows, a statement has been published after each meeting of the Joint Exchequer Committee. I take John Swinney and the Scottish Government at face value—that they want to reach a fair agreement for Scotland. The United Kingdom Government want to reach a fair agreement for Scotland. That is in all our interests and I am confident that that will be achieved.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Wednesday 15th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Priti Patel]

Welfare powers will, of course, be devolved to the Scottish Parliament, so it will be up to it to use them effectively as it sees fit.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

I agree with the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss), because yesterday I also met Citizens Advice Scotland, which told us that more than 200 people a day were being sanctioned by the Department for Work and Pensions and that 100,000 children were being affected. Will the Minister please answer the question? Why will she not instigate a full review of the sanctions regime, as recommended by the Church of Scotland?

[Priti Patel]

When it comes to sanctions in particular, individuals are asked to meet reasonable requirements to take into account their circumstances, which is right and proper when people are looking for work and employment. [Interruption.] I see SNP colleagues laughing at the prospect, but we are all about supporting individuals into the employment market. As we have seen, 70% of jobseeker’s allowance recipients say that the system of sanctions and conditionality leads them to engage positively with the support on offer to help them into employment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

My party has submitted more than 80 amendments to the Scotland Bill, more than all the other parties in the House combined. The Secretary of State has said today that he will listen, and will return to the House with amendments to the Bill. May I ask which of Labour’s amendments he will be accepting?

[David Mundell]

I will be reflecting on the amendments that Labour has tabled. Some were tabled in a constructive way, while others were obviously tabled in a partisan way. I will reflect on amendments to the Bill that are in the interests of the people of Scotland.

[Ian Murray]

New research conducted by the House of Commons Library, which I am releasing today, shows that the average family in Scotland working full time on the so-called national living wage will be more than £1,800 a year worse off after the Budget. The Scottish Federation of Housing Associations has said that the Budget has

“the potential to be just as damaging as the ‘bedroom tax’.”

Will the Government therefore accept Labour’s amendment to the Scotland Bill that would give the Scottish Government the power to design a welfare system fit for the Scottish people?

[David Mundell]

I believe that the substantial welfare powers in the Bill, which constitute responsibilities worth £2.5 billion, will give the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament a significant say in welfare arrangements in Scotland. What we need to hear from the SNP is exactly what sort of welfare system it intends to introduce, and, most important, who is going to pay for it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Wednesday 10th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

Indeed I do agree with my hon. Friend. Of course, the nature of the devolution settlement means that different decisions will be taken in Scotland on those matters that are devolved, so inevitably different policies will be pursued on one side of the border from the other. I think that the Carlisle principle set out by the Prime Minister during the general election should be followed.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

As this is the first Scottish questions, I also pay tribute to Charles Kennedy. He was warm, he was witty, he was kind, and our condolences go out to his family, his friends and his party, and, of course, his son Donald.

How many more Scottish children of working-age families will fall into poverty as a result of his Government’s decisions on welfare?

[David Mundell]

There is no evidence that there will be a further increase in the number of children falling into poverty as a result of welfare changes in Scotland. Indeed, the evidence shows that since statistics began there has been a relative decrease in child poverty in Scotland. As the hon. Gentleman will know, the Scotland Bill is devolving extensive welfare provisions to the Scottish Parliament, and if the Scottish Parliament believes that there is any detriment in Scotland it will have the opportunity to top up or create new benefits.

[Ian Murray]

The Secretary of State says that there is no evidence. I find that answer contemptible. Let me give him some evidence. John Dickie, the head of the Child Poverty Action Group, has said that the Government’s £12 billion cuts to welfare could lead to a “child poverty crisis”. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has said that those most likely to be affected are low-income working households with children. Is it not time that the Secretary of State stopped ducking the question and came clean about the impact this will have on vulnerable Scottish families, given that 50% of children in poverty in Scotland are from families who are in work?

[David Mundell]

The Government’s position is clear: the best way out of poverty is into work. There is a record low number of workless households in Scotland, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman welcomes that. I also hope that he welcomes the Government’s decision to devolve significant welfare powers to the Scottish Parliament so that if there are specific issues in Scotland decisions can be made in Scotland to deal with them.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Mundell]

I agree with two of the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues from Edinburgh, one of whom has described full fiscal autonomy as a disaster and the other of whom has described it as suicidal.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

Given that the respected Institute for Fiscal Studies has estimated that full fiscal autonomy would result in a near £10 billion black hole in Scotland’s finances, and that, as the Secretary of State said, the Scottish National party Member for Edinburgh East (Tommy Sheppard) has called it a disaster—perhaps we should lock him in the gents—is it not clear that it would not lead to a stronger Scotland or promote fairness and social justice? However, given the Scottish Government’s reluctance to accept the impartial IFS’s figures, will the Secretary of State back Labour’s amendment to the Scotland Bill to provide a full and independent report on the implications of full fiscal autonomy?

[David Mundell]

If we have any votes in the House on full fiscal autonomy, we may have to ensure that the toilets are enlarged, because I suspect all SNP Members will want to lock themselves in so that they can absent themselves from any decision.