National Maternity and Neonatal Investigation

Debate between James Murray and Jeremy Hunt

Tuesday 30th June 2026 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

I thank my right hon. Friend for her comments and agree about how shocking the failures in maternity services are, particularly because these failings and the failure to listen to women happens at a point when they are at their most vulnerable. It is at that moment when they are let down. When they need the NHS the most is when the NHS fails them, and that is one aspect of this that makes it truly devastating.

My right hon. Friend also rightly highlights the impact on black women and their babies, who are at more risk than white women and their babies, and the inequalities that exposes. As I mentioned during my earlier statement, we will begin by ensuring that the perinatal equity and anti-discrimination programme is extended to all trusts by the end of next year, but that is an immediate measure we are taking rather than the sum of all measures that we will take on this front. Inequality, racism and discrimination will be a central part of the action plan that the taskforce develops.

[Sir Jeremy Hunt (Godalming and Ash) (Con)]

I strongly agree with the comments of the former Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting), about the need for getting the culture right with accountability. When I was Secretary of State, we passed the duty of candour regulations. They were supposed to make it—well, they do make it—a criminal offence for trusts not to tell the truth to families when a tragedy has happened. Yet to this day, trust lawyers advise doctors, nurses and midwives not to be open about what has happened when there is the prospect of legal action further down the line. Does the Secretary of State—I know he is very committed to this—agree that we will clear up this anomaly in the Hillsborough law so that it is just not possible for trusts not to tell the truth and so that trust lawyers always advise their own doctors, nurses and midwives that they must tell families exactly what happened?

[James Murray]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his comments. Again, I agree with him and my right hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting) on the importance of accountability for changing culture. During the statement on Donna Ockenden’s report last week, he commented that this is about having accountability structures embedded throughout the system, because this is not something that the top of the NHS, the NHS chief executive, the Secretary of State or the ministerial team can control throughout the NHS. The structure has to be embedded to ensure that accountability happens at every level—something I very much took to heart and agree with when it comes to what we need to do next.

On the right hon. Gentleman’s specific point about the Hillsborough law and how that will address the issue that he refers to about legal departments effectively advising a cover-up, that sounds concerning, so I will look into that as part of our work to ensure that the system works properly. The expectation with the duty of candour, which will come in under the Hillsborough law, is to ensure that we never again have a situation as happened in Nottingham—I could not quite believe it, if I am honest—where many senior clinicians simply refused to take part. It is outrageous. It is unacceptable that so many senior clinicians were able to, and felt able to, just say no. That is not accountability if it is optional, and that is what we need to change.

Nottingham Maternity and Neonatal Services

Debate between James Murray and Jeremy Hunt

Wednesday 24th June 2026 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

I thank my hon. Friend for her comments and questions. As well as thanking the families for what they have done to drive the report forward, she also thanked Donna Ockenden for her critical work in producing this report, and to those thanks I add my own. My hon. Friend asks about the timetable for action. The national taskforce, which I chair, will draw together all the national recommendations, all the recommendations from Donna Ockenden’s report, the recommendations from Baroness Amos’s report, and any other report on failures in maternity services, and the taskforce will report by the end of the year. That will be the timetable for us ensuring that there is a comprehensive plan of action. I know from my conversations with families that some have wanted a public inquiry and others have had different views. Let me be clear that, for me, no options are off the table.

[Sir Jeremy Hunt (Godalming and Ash) (Con)]

It is a matter of profound shame for all of us in the House that in a society that we call compassionate, a baby’s body could be disposed of as clinical waste. I add my thanks to the families and salute their courage, including the hon. Member for Sherwood Forest (Michelle Welsh), and particularly Jack and Sarah Hawkins, and all those families who have shown such courage in coming forward with these utterly appalling stories.

I commissioned a number of maternity reviews, and I am afraid that today I feel a terrible sense of déjà-vu. I worry that a lot of the recommendations, and the things that I suspect the Government will end up doing, amount to central direction and central control, which we know usually does not work in the NHS. I was encouraged that the Secretary of State, in his thoughtful comments, used the word “accountability”, because the core problem is a lack of clinical accountability. For his solutions, will he consider a complete overhaul, so that every mother, the moment she knows she is pregnant, is given a small team, including a doctor and midwives, and is told, “This is the team, this is the person who is responsible for the safe birth of your child”, so that she always knows who to go to? That is where things are currently falling between the seams. Ensuring that people always know who is responsible and who to go to is the only way that we will stop these things happening time after time.

[James Murray]

I sincerely thank the right hon. Gentleman for his comments. I have a great deal of respect for him, as he knows, so I very much appreciate him making his suggestions in that manner. Let me add to what he said about Jack and Sarah Hawkins, who I met last week in Nottingham. Their sheer determination to push for accountability and justice is incredibly humbling. The right hon. Gentleman mentions the importance of clinical accountability, which gets to the core of how to drive change in the NHS—as he knows, and as I now know, that is not always possible through central control, or by instructions being sent out from the Department of Health and Social Care or NHS England. We must ensure that the entire system is structured in the right way to provide that accountability and to drive change and action, and I will put under careful consideration his suggestion about how that might be achieved.