Trade Union Bill
Debate between Lord Balfe and Lord Tyler
Lord Balfe (Con)
I, too, think that we need a slightly better definition of what is a body that is not a public authority that is “wholly or partly” publicly funded. The example that comes to mind is my local Tesco, which includes a pharmacy and a post office, both of which are of course in receipt of some public money. I wonder whether my noble friend will be revisiting her past by asking the local Tesco to conform. Seriously, this is a reach beyond where I think we should be going. It is becoming all encompassing, and I would like us to row back from going quite as far as the clause appears to be taking us.
Lord Tyler (LD)
I speak as a member of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. This is precisely the sort of area which is inappropriate to be left to regulation, at least without clear guidance to your Lordships’ House at this stage.
Does the Minister appreciate that she is establishing a precedent here if she allows this sort of public authority creep to extend this far? The noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, mentioned transparency. I am particularly concerned at present at the way in which the Government are rowing back on freedom of information. If the Government are not to be totally inconsistent in this area, they will have to extend freedom of information to these organisations.
You cannot treat an organisation that happens to be taking public money as automatically becoming a public authority in the terms of new subsection (9) without recognising the implications. If you are asking it in one respect to be treated as a public authority in terms of facility time, why not in terms of freedom of information? I beg the Minister to recognise the point that has just been made from behind her that this is a dangerous area to leave to secondary legislation. We are already in some difficulty with the relationship between primary and secondary legislation; this is precisely the sort of area which should not be left to secondary legislation. I hope very much that she will be able to give your Lordships a clear assurance that new subsection (9) is to be reviewed in toto, not just tweaked, otherwise it establishes a considerable new extension of the designation of public authority. If they are not prepared to do that, I warn the Government that, on many sides of this House, we will see this as an opportunity to extend the requirements of freedom of information legislation.