22 Lord Bilimoria debates involving the Leader of the House

Thu 6th Jan 2022
Wed 18th Aug 2021
Wed 14th Oct 2020
Mon 6th Jul 2020
Business and Planning Bill
Lords Chamber

2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 2nd reading
Thu 25th Jun 2020

The Importance of the Relationship Between the United Kingdom and India

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts
Thursday 19th January 2023

(1 year, 3 months ago)

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Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB)
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My Lords, I have just landed back from India this morning. I was born and brought up in India, and after my studies here in the UK, I started Cobra Beer which, I say with humility and pride, is today a household name and the most famous Indian brand of any sort in the UK. In 2003, I was appointed as the UK chair of the Indo-British partnership in the Foreign Office, and my Indian co-chair was none other than Nārāyana Mūrthy, our Prime Minister Rishi Sunak’s father-in-law. Rishi Sunak and I are proud members of the 1.6 million Indians in the UK, as the noble Baroness, Lady Verma, mentioned—I thank her for initiating this debate—who are doing exceedingly well in the “living bridge”, as Prime Minister Modi calls us. In 2007, I founded the UK India Business Council, of which I am the founding chair.

India has now overtaken the UK and is the fifth largest economy in the world. It is also the fastest growing large economy in the world, with 1.4 billion people. With 75 years of democracy, it is a young country. It had a growth rate of 8.7% in the last financial year, and it has contributed one in 10 unicorn companies, with over 100 unicorns. It is also the fourth largest producer of renewable energy and solar power. In every aspect, India is going from strength to strength—including during the pandemic, when it produced billions of vaccines, with the Serum Institute of India partnering with Oxford University and AstraZeneca.

I am co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for International Students. Students from India have now overtaken those from China as the largest group of international students. Foreign universities are now being allowed to open up in India; that is a great opportunity for British universities. Indian universities are now starting to want to have a presence here in the UK—for example, the Indian Institute of Technology is partnering with the University of Birmingham, where I am chancellor, and will ideally open a physical presence here in the UK.

The UK-India free trade agreement is well-advanced. Although our trade at the moment is worth £29.6 billion, India is only the 12th largest trading partner of the UK. That is not enough; it should be so much higher. I am sure the Minister will agree that we should conclude the FTA as quickly as possible, but not in a rush—it needs to be as comprehensive as possible. I am delighted by our chief negotiator, Harjinder Kang, and wish him every bit of luck. He is, of course, a governor of the University of Birmingham, where I am chancellor. The young professionals scheme has just been concluded; 3,000 degree-educated nationals from India will be able to spend two years here, and vice versa. That is wonderful news.

The integrated review talked about the tilt to the Indo-Pacific. I am a trustee of Policy Exchange; we produced the report on that idea, and the Government acted on it. I suggest—I ask the Minister if he agrees—that the UK should join the Quad, the defence and security alliance between the USA, Australia, Japan and India. We should have “Quad-plus”, thus circling the world.

We need large prime ministerial delegations. I have been on every single delegation, under Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, David Cameron and Theresa May, but Boris Johnson did not take a delegation—there were only two of us from India present. I suggest that Rishi Sunak takes one; we should do that as soon as possible.

On the one hand, we have the India Advisory Council, chaired by the Minister, but on the other, the UK-India round table has been disbanded. That needs to be revived. Will the Minister agree? We had UKIERI, Teach India and the two-year post-graduation work visa from it. The CEO forum has not met; we need to revive that. Defence alliances need to continue as well. We are in a race. Everyone wants to do business with India. We need to go the extra mile.

To conclude, as a boy, Narendra Modi sold tea at his father’s tea stall at a railway station in Gujarat. Today he is one of the most powerful people on this planet as Prime Minister of India. Today India has the presidency of the G20. Today India has a vision to become, in the next 25 years, the second-largest economy in the world with a GDP of $32 billion. The Indian express has left the station. It is now the fastest train in the world—the fastest-growing major economy in the world. The UK must be its closest and most trusted friend and partner in the decades ahead.

CHOGM, G7 and NATO Summits

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts
Monday 4th July 2022

(1 year, 10 months ago)

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Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Portrait Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)
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Yes, we were very pleased to agree the accession of Togo and Gabon. I do not believe that Cameroon was mentioned, but if that was the case, I will happily refer back to the noble Viscount. As for agriculture, he is absolutely right: as well as the various additional funds I mentioned, we also announced £17.7 million of funding through the FCDO’s green growth centre of expertise to improve the effective use of fertilisers and increase food production in countries including Rwanda, Kenya and Ghana.

Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB)
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My Lords, would it be possible to speak? I was a latecomer as well.

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Portrait Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)
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Did the noble Lord hear any of the Statement?

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Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB)
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I was here when the noble Lord, Lord Newby, was speaking.

Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB)
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But everyone else who was late was allowed to speak.

Lord Ashton of Hyde Portrait Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
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Some Members were late by a minute or five minutes, but the noble Lord missed the whole Statement and the remarks of the party leaders.

Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB)
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I did not miss their remarks.

Lord Collins of Highbury Portrait Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
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The noble Lord missed the Front-Benchers.

Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB)
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I did not miss them; I heard the noble Lord, Lord Newby.

Lord Ashton of Hyde Portrait Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
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I think that proves the point that the noble Lord was not here for the Leader of the Opposition.

Living with Covid-19

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts
Tuesday 22nd February 2022

(2 years, 2 months ago)

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Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Portrait Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)
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We have always made it clear that as we move through Covid we would move away from free testing, and that is what we intend to do. As there are now high levels of immunity across the population as a result of vaccination and natural infection, future testing and isolation will play a less important role in preventing serious illness, and, as I have said in response to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, we will be working with retailers to establish and develop a private market for lateral flow tests.

Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB)
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My Lords, last summer and winter the CBI, of which I am president, said that there must be a three-pronged attack. The first prong was vaccines, and hats off to the Government for an excellent vaccine programme. The second was providing free lateral flow devices to businesses and citizens, and the Government have been the best in the world at doing this so far; no other country has done it like we have. The third was antiviral treatments, and the Government have almost 3 million. Why are the Government withdrawing the free lateral flow tests so early, when it has taken one year for people to get used to using them regularly? We ran out of them in December and January. They are very effective. Why are the Government doing this? Surely they are being penny-wise and pound-foolish. Businesses and citizens should be using them. We need them for a while longer.

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Portrait Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)
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The noble Lord will be aware that we have announced that we will end free testing, but it will not finish until the end of March; we are not stopping free testing immediately. There will obviously be the opportunity for people to get tests during that time. As the noble Baroness said, the test, trace and isolation budget in 2020-21 exceeded the entire budget of the Home Office. It cost a further £15.7 billion this financial year and £2 billion in January alone, at the height of the omicron wave. We want to move to the next phase as we begin to live with Covid, and ending free testing is one aspect of that approach.

Covid-19

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts
Thursday 6th January 2022

(2 years, 3 months ago)

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Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Portrait Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)
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I certainly agree with the noble Baroness about the appalling behaviour of some people around schools, and we have provided guidance to all schools on how to manage vaccination-related protests in liaison with the police, the NHS and the local authorities. Should a protest contravene the law, the police have comprehensive powers to deal with activities that spread hate or deliberately raise tensions. But she is right: it is an unsatisfactory situation and we are working with schools to try to help and support them in any way we can.

On the noble Baroness’s second point, more than 350,000 CO2 monitors have been rolled out to schools across the country and 8,000 air purifiers are being distributed to schools with particular ventilation difficulties. However, in the areas where CO2 monitors have been rolled out to schools to identify poorly ventilated areas, feedback shows that in most of those settings existing ventilation measures are sufficient. So a lot of work is being done, but we have added 7,000 to the 1,000 purifiers that we were planning for SEN and alternative provision settings to add to the broader school estate.

Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB)
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My Lords, I returned from South Africa where I spoke to Dr Abdool Karim, one of the leading epidemiologists there. He said on Monday —after I landed on Tuesday I saw the message—that they are coming to the end of their fourth wave. Are we learning the lessons from South Africa, where there are three-day hospital stays for omicron versus stays of between seven and eight days for beta and delta? There is far less use of ventilators and ICUs. Are the Government aware of the report of Professor Ravi Gupta of Cambridge, as well as a report from Hong Kong, showing that omicron is not as severe because it does not affect the lungs as much? If that is the case, can we try to reduce the isolation period as much as possible using testing? Can testing be made free, right up to spring? Finally, given the good news about the MHRA approving the Pfizer antiviral, which in trials has shown an 89% reduction in hospitalisation and deaths, how soon can we get 2.5 million treatments? That will be a game-changer. Will it be before March?

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Portrait Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)
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As I mentioned in response to an earlier question from the noble Lord, Lord Newby, our current assessment is that we are not planning to shorten the isolation period, for the reasons I gave. We are certainly working with international partners to learn the lessons of omicron and we obviously have increasing data on what is happening here across the country. We are monitoring data daily. We have tried to have a proportionate approach to ensuring that people’s health, safety and well-being are at the top of our priorities while understanding that lockdowns have a severe cost in many other ways. Balancing that has been incredibly difficult, but we are looking at data daily to try to make sure that we get that balance right in order to keep the economy open and keep people safe.

Afghanistan

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts
Wednesday 18th August 2021

(2 years, 8 months ago)

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Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB) [V]
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My Lords, the decision to intervene militarily in Afghanistan, just after 11 September 2001, was the first and only time NATO applied Article 5. It was a unanimous decision—an attack on one member is an attack on all. The mission was accomplished almost immediately. It took another decade to find Osama bin Laden and now, another decade later, we have left.

A point made by other noble Lords was on the difference we made with a relatively small number of people in Afghanistan, changing, training the army and making a huge difference, with no terrorist attack on western soil emanating from Afghanistan in these two decades. This was with less than 20,000 personnel, including from the USA and the UK. In Germany, the USA alone has more than double that number and they have been there for over 75 years, as they have in Japan. They have been in South Korea for decades.

We can never thank our troops enough for their service and sacrifice—our brave, amazing, best-of-the-best troops. The sad ultimate sacrifice was made by the 457 who died, those who have been injured and their families. But their sacrifice was not in vain; they made a huge difference to a country, giving hope to a country of young people. Some 64% of the population of Afghanistan is under the age of 25. The hopes and dreams of these young people is Afghanistan’s future, and we must do all we can to help them. We cannot thank enough the thousands of UK-employed civilians and their families. We have a moral duty to resettle them here immediately. There are no limits of 5,000 a year—whatever it takes, we must do it now.

Britain has to show global leadership on the global stage. With the presidency of the G7 and the G20 coming up, and NATO, we have hard and soft power in abundance. We have cut our development aid by 75% and now need to increase aid to Afghanistan dramatically. Do the Government agree?

Just this week, along with my co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for International Students, I wrote to the Prime Minister saying we must do everything possible to support Afghani students—35 Chevening scholars and others—to get their visas so they can travel to the UK. In Birmingham University alone, where I am chancellor, we have 27 potential Afghani students for this coming academic year. Can the Government reassure us on this?

We have heard that the BBC has 100 people on the ground and that it is a trusted service there; 60% of the adult population of Afghanistan use the BBC as a source. We have heard that the development has been amazing: in 2003, less than 10% of girls were in primary schools; now, it is 33%. In secondary schools, it has gone from 6% to 39%. There are 3.5 million girls at school and 100,000 at university, and 20% of the work- force is women. Yet Afghanistan is on the brink of returning to a narco-state, with almost 40% of the Taliban’s revenue coming from opium.

India is one of the top trading partners of Afghanistan. Has the Foreign Secretary, Dominic Raab, had a meeting with the Indian Foreign Minister Dr Jaishankar? The UK and India need to partner together. India has invested hugely in development projects in Afghanistan, such as on power, water supply, road connectivity, healthcare, education, agriculture and capacity building.

I can find no better way to conclude than by quoting Ambassador TS Tirumurti, the Permanent Representative of India to the United Nations. On 16 August, he said:

“Afghanistan has already seen enough bloodshed in the past. It is time for the international community to come together unitedly, rising above any partisan interests, to support the people of Afghanistan in their desire for peace, stability and security in the country and to enable all Afghans, including women, children and minorities, to live in peace and dignity.”

Covid 19: Winter Plan

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts
Tuesday 24th November 2020

(3 years, 5 months ago)

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Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Portrait Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)
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I am very happy to again pay tribute, as the noble Baroness, the noble Lord and others have done, to the fantastic scientists who have worked on these vaccines and indeed who work across universities. I very much hope that the exciting developments we have seen at Oxford and other universities will encourage young people to think about this work as a career. It is incredibly impressive and challenging work, and I hope that some of the coverage and interest in it will encourage more people to think about it as a career, ensuring that we continue to have fantastic scientists working in this country.

Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB) [V]
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My Lords, we rejoice at the wonderful news of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine. However, in the meantime, does the noble Baroness agree that a six-week mass, rapid and affordable lateral flow antigen testing surge could be a game-changer? Now that these tests will be manufactured in the UK at very low cost—perhaps even as low as £3—do the Government agree that they should be freely distributed to enable as much of the population as possible to self-test regularly? This would reduce the R rate rapidly, within weeks, and, in the words of the Prime Minister, would be the boxing glove that truly pummels the virus.

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Portrait Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)
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I agree with the noble Lord, and that is exactly why we are offering all local authorities in tier 3 areas the opportunity to participate in the sort of programme that he has suggested. It will be called the kick out Covid testing challenge and will build on the positive results from the Liverpool pilot.

Covid-19 Update

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts
Wednesday 14th October 2020

(3 years, 6 months ago)

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Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Portrait Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)
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I entirely agree with my noble friend. That is the basis of the thinking behind the very high tier in particular, where restrictions can be dovetailed to the specific circumstances of the individual region. I can assure her that PHE, the Joint Biosecurity Centre and NHS Test and Trace are constantly monitoring levels of infection and data across different areas of the country, so we can do exactly as she suggests.

Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB) [V]
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My Lords, a second national lockdown would be devastating for our economy, so it is right to prioritise bringing infections under control. As president of the CBI, I know that business supports the simplification of the Covid rules with three tiers of restrictions. But does the noble Baroness the Leader of the House agree that the Government must show more of their evidence base for the new restrictions? This includes the 10 pm closing for restaurants, bars and pubs, where, I am led to believe, less than 5% of new infections come from. Why do we still need the 10 pm rule? Will they also keep financial support under review, in lock-step with the severity of the restrictions? The noble Baroness the Leader of the House mentioned testing. It is admirable that the testing has gone up from 2,000 to 350,000, and soon to 500,000, but she has not mentioned mass testing. Could she talk about mass testing—

Lord Ashton of Hyde Portrait Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
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My Lords, could the noble Lord put his question please?

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Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB) [V]
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I have asked two questions.

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Portrait Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)
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Very quickly, analysis from PHE and NHS Test and Trace suggests that pubs, bars, restaurants and cafes account for the highest rates of common exposure for Covid, especially in those under-30. We will of course continue to keep an eye on financial support, which we have continued to do. I am afraid I did not hear the third part of the question.

Business and Planning Bill

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts
2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 6th July 2020

(3 years, 9 months ago)

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Read Full debate Business and Planning Act 2020 View all Business and Planning Act 2020 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Committee of the whole House Amendments as at 29 June 2020 (PDF) - (29 Jun 2020)
Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB) [V]
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My Lords, the construction and hospitality industries have been severely affected by the coronavirus pandemic. Over 40% of construction sector workers were furloughed as of the middle of May, and ONS statistics published in June show that food and beverage service activities dropped by nearly 90% in the last quarter. So, for the hospitality sector, the Business and Planning Bill will support recovery by allowing pubs, restaurants and cafés to serve outside, as well as the off-premise sale of alcohol, to make the most of this summer while upholding social distancing. The Bill also makes the application process quicker for construction sites to extend their operating hours to accelerate building works, speeds up planning approvals and appeals, and digitises parts of the planning application. The Bill will support small businesses to access the finance they need during the pandemic by enabling the process for the bounce-back loan scheme to be as simple as possible, ensuring that these loans reach businesses quickly, easily and at scale.

The efforts of the British Business Bank, Her Majesty’s Treasury and approved lenders provided a critical lifeline to many businesses, saving thousands of jobs and livelihoods. There remain critical challenges ahead and banks have a vital role to play in the recovery, yet we are by no means out of the woods. There are big concerns about a finance cliff edge in October as the job retention scheme and tax deferments end. The May PMIs continued to indicate a sharp fall in activity. The growth indicator of the CBI, of which I am president, suggests that activity fell at the fastest pace in the three months to May since the indicator began in 2003. The ONS survey on the business impact of Covid-19 reported that cash is still a huge issue, with 42% of businesses having cash reserves to last less than six months. Some £42.9 billion delivered to over 1 million businesses by the loan schemes shows how vital this finance has been and still is to business. Nearly £30 billion has been paid to almost 1 million businesses through the coronavirus business bounce-back loan scheme alone. These 100% loans are guaranteed up to £50,000, with over 80% of them being approved. Does the Minister agree that the Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan Scheme—CBILS—has not been as successful, with less than 50% approvals? However, these loans are still very necessary.

With every pound invested in construction generating £2.92 in value to the UK, according to CBI research, this activity will support economic stability and future growth in the regions across the UK through increased spending and improved productivity for other industries. The construction industry has welcomed the efforts to allow more flexible working hours. Businesses have welcomed the Government’s temporary extensions to planning permission periods and consents.

From speaking to businesses of all sizes across the country, the CBI has a clear vision for the recovery of the UK’s economy, and in a recent letter to the Chancellor, the CBI called for the next wave of government action to support and protect the economy and save jobs. Firms need to know this side of the summer—that is why I am glad that the Government are speeding through this Bill—what government support will be available. The need is immediate and critical. The CBI has put forward ideas to target at-scale action to kick-start growth, support viable businesses and save jobs. These include: to develop schemes to support jobs with a focus on young people and the long-term unemployed; to extend grant support for SMEs via local authorities to save businesses vital to local communities and key supply chains; to extend business rates relief to mid-sized businesses in all sectors to reduce fixed costs for the next three months; to extend the windows for new applications for the CBILS by at least a further three months; to consider further policy measures to stimulate demand in the economy. The restaurant industry, for example, is asking for VAT to be reduced temporarily to 5%. Will the Government consider sectoral VAT reductions?

To conclude, the Secretary of State for Business, Alok Sharma, said in the other place that many businesses have lost revenue as a result of measures intended to halt the spread of Covid-19. He described the purpose of the Bill as being

“to provide an adrenaline boost to key sectors of our economy”,—[Official Report, Commons, 29/6/20; col. 51.]

enabling them to reopen and increase sales as some of the Covid-19 safety measures are relaxed.

Covid-19 Update

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts
Thursday 25th June 2020

(3 years, 10 months ago)

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Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Portrait Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
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Ministers in the department recently met leaders in this sector to discuss the impact and how guidance could be developed to ensure that the sector can reopen. It will be consulted on guidelines. There is another round table with the sector next week to discuss that. Obviously, this is an incredibly important sector and we are looking to continue support, but the sector has benefited from the job retention scheme and the self-employment support scheme, as well as from the £160 million Arts Council England emergency funding. We are in ongoing discussions. Of course, we want this sector to open up as quickly as possible, but in a way that ensures that audiences and performers are safe in the environment.

Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB) [V]
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My Lords, I am grateful to the Government for the easing of social distancing from two metres to one metre. This will save thousands of jobs and businesses. Can the Leader of the House assure us that businesses will have access to widespread testing to test their employees on a regular basis to get confidence? We can see from the Premier League how well regular testing is being proven to work. On that basis, surely cricket can also start with regular testing. Football is a contact sport, and it is working safely. Surely it can work for cricket. Although the Statement allows pubs and restaurants to commence, there are lots of caterers, such as events caterers and wedding caterers, who cannot operate. Their businesses have been destroyed. There are 1 million individuals not covered by the Chancellor’s excellent initiatives for business. What will the Government do to help all these individuals and businesses?

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Portrait Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
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I am sure that, like me, the noble Lord has seen pictures of the England cricket team being tested this morning as they went into their bubble in advance of their series against the West Indies. That is happening and it is a small step in the right direction. The noble Lord will know that testing capacity has increased to over 200,000 tests a day and that around 8 million tests have been delivered through our testing programme, so nationwide testing is moving in the right direction. That will be critical as we start to unlock the economy further. The noble Lord is right that a series of schemes have been in place during the lockdown. The Chancellor will be making further Statements in this area in the next couple of weeks.

Business of the House

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts
Thursday 4th April 2019

(5 years ago)

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Lord Robathan Portrait Lord Robathan
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I am grateful to the noble Lord. I agree: it should not be about filibustering. However, I and a great many other people believe we are acting as a check on the wrong procedure down the other end. The noble Lord was here in January 2011. I wonder whether he took part in the filibuster I looked up, which tried to stop the referendum on parliamentary voting. Did he not? Perhaps he was on the Government Benches at the time? No, he would not have been. The noble Lord, Lord Prescott, formerly Deputy Prime Minister, who is not in his place, was apparently very active in it. So I am afraid that filibusters—as the noble Lord suggests this might be—are not unique to any particular party. We should go by constitutional precedent, proper convention—

Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria (CB)
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I am sorry to interrupt the noble Lord. I remind him that I have been here for over 12 years. I cannot remember when this House has asked, time after time, to put something forward like this. We normally take the time that is required. The threat was, “Be careful what you wish for”, but this has not happened in 12 years because we have not needed it. Today, we have spent more than five years on five amendments. The whole country is watching us make a complete disgrace of ourselves. The noble Lord is bringing shame to this House: it is pure filibustering and should not be allowed.

Lord Robathan Portrait Lord Robathan
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I am grateful to the noble Lord for filling up a couple of minutes. It is not five years, as it happens.

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Lord Framlingham Portrait Lord Framlingham (Con)
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My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown, and I agree entirely with his remarks—particularly his final recommendation. The one thing of which he cannot be accused is being a member of the ERG, which is very refreshing. I shall be brief, because, as always in these debates, much has been said. However, I claim the right to say what I think on important occasions such as this.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, started off by saying that unconventional times require unconventional measures. I could not disagree more. In unconventional times, you need conventional measures to keep your bearings and know where you are. Otherwise, if you are not careful, you descend into chaos. Not many days ago we had a debate in this Chamber revolving around statutory instruments, dealt with by my noble friend Lord True. I will repeat the point he made again and again: we must always draw huge difference between the great issues which we want to discuss—the things that divide us and about which we get very worked up—and the framework within which we discuss them. Today we are destroying the framework. If we do that, there is a danger of descending into chaos. Some outside this Chamber may say—the people of this country are starting to say—that it is chaos that we between us have created.

This is a momentous decision, and it needs time. It seems to be generally accepted in the country that we will rubber-stamp it; that the Bill will take a little while today, but then go through. The media treat it that way. But we cannot be seen as a pushover, a rubber stamp or a mere formality. Otherwise, as has been said by many, we have no justification to continue to exist.

In days gone by—quite a while ago, I remember, when I was a Member of the House of Commons—time used to be the Opposition’s main and legitimate weapon. Yes, it meant that things were sometimes strung out, but it also ensured scrutiny without time limit. That meant proper scrutiny in real depth; you did not make the same degree of mistakes. To cut the debate short in those days, which was rare, there was such a thing as a guillotine. Over the years, the guillotine became “programming”, which is the modern word for it. The House of Commons now guillotines things routinely, with the result that, like a sausage machine, we get half-thought-through legislation from down the Corridor, which we have to deal with by the bucketload. This is just part of the same thing. Surely we must maintain our right to correct if need be or to look carefully at what they do, and, if need be, to ask them to think again.

The Bill itself is an abuse of the parliamentary system. To ram it through in one day like this would be to compound that abuse. The truth is that it is all part of the plot to stop us leaving the European Union—I am not afraid to mention that. The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, just intervened on somebody in the debate; he now spends night and day working to stop us leaving the EU. I find it hard to take remarks from people in this Chamber when I know what their motives are. There has been a huge amount of dishonesty over the last two and a half years, not least from the gentleman who is burbling from the Opposition Back Benches.

Lord Bilimoria Portrait Lord Bilimoria
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Is the noble Lord accusing me of dishonesty?

Lord Framlingham Portrait Lord Framlingham
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Not at all; on the contrary, I accuse him of honesty. He is honest all the time: he wants to stop us leaving the EU and is working night and day to stop it happening. That is what I said, and if he can deny that, I will give way to him again. I do not want to impugn; it is dangerous to get into this, as it gets very emotive, and I know that we do not want to—