Intelligence and Security Committee: Russia Report

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Thursday 9th July 2020 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to facilitate the publication of the report of the Intelligence and Security Committee entitled Russia and sent to the Prime Minister on 17 October 2019.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord True) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government acknowledge the continued interest in the publication of the Intelligence and Security Committee’s Russia report. This report is the independent ISC’s property and it is not for the Government to publish. We have received nominations from all relevant parties and are in the process of constituting the committee.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD) [V]]

My Lords, despite that Panglossian reply, is it not abundantly clear that the Government deliberately and improperly suppressed the publication of the report to avoid embarrassment in last year’s general election? Why, six months after that election, have the Government irresponsibly failed to appoint a new intelligence committee which could publish the report? This is a shabby episode, increasingly typical of No. 10 Downing Street.

[Lord True]

My Lords, the noble Lord’s statement was certainly not Panglossian, but it was very wide of the mark. An announcement on membership will be made very shortly, and a Motion will be tabled for agreement by both Houses next week. The noble Lord’s wild charges against the Prime Minister are wholly unfounded.

Beyond Brexit (European Union Committee Report)

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Tuesday 12th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, the unwillingness of the Government—indeed, their refusal —to countenance any extension beyond 31 December is irresponsible, not least because it leaves open the possible catastrophic outcome of no deal whatever. I ask myself: what is the Prime Minister afraid of? He now has a majority of 80 in the House of Commons, and the remainers, many of whom have already spoken in this debate, are silenced.

After the virus crisis, we shall need friends and influence in Europe, but most of all we now need the best possible trade deal that can be achieved. It is no use looking to President Trump, as people frequently do. Current American unemployment and Joe Biden’s lead in the polls will mean that Mr Trump, once again, will be focusing on “America first”, and indeed, you might say, “second” and “third” as well.

The Prime Minister has a long and undistinguished record of changing his mind for his own interests. He should change his mind on this occasion for the public interest.

House of Lords: Membership

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Tuesday 5th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True]

My Lords, I agree that transparency is vital in public affairs. I am not responsible for usual channels. I would be a wealthy man if I had a pound for every unattributable briefing that was knocked down under the last Labour Government. I have repudiated this story and the alleged proposals on behalf of the Government in Parliament, and there it should rest.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

It cannot really rest, of course, because this is only one of a series of unattributed weekend briefings from No. 10. Although the finger cannot be pointed definitely at someone, most of us have a pretty good idea where the briefings are coming from. Frankly, it is not acceptable; it should be stopped, and the Prime Minister should stop it. On refreshing the House, what the Minister said is of course true, but it is generally accepted that some 40 names are already waiting to be introduced to the House. That goes far beyond “refreshing”, and drives a horse and cart through the Burns proposals, which the House unanimously accepted.

[Lord True]

My Lords, I think this is going wide of the Question, though the noble Lord might wish to reflect on the large number of Peers on his own Benches who were brought in under the previous two Administrations. I shall not enter into conspiracy theories; the House should concentrate on fact and work. I have stated on the record that this is not, and has not been, government policy.

Detainee Mistreatment and Rendition

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Tuesday 16th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

The noble Lord is quite right. Our officials were not involved in torture. I take this opportunity of saying that our intelligence and security personnel try to keep us safe, in very difficult and challenging circumstances. None the less, it is right that we hold them to the highest possible standards.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the Intelligence and Security Committee between 2008 and 2015. With the benefit of hindsight, does the noble Lord consider that it was appropriate to prevent that committee from continuing with its investigations, and that it would have been entirely proper for it to continue an investigation which it had already begun?

National Security Council Leak

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Thursday 2nd May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness. On the first issue that she raised, the 5G decision will be made public in due course and will of course be subject to the usual scrutiny. On the question that she raised about the confidence of our allies, the action that the Prime Minister has taken shows how seriously she takes the leak from the NSC. We are now in touch with our allies to reassure them about the steps we have taken to remain confident in the security of NSC discussions, so that they can continue to have confidence in us.

On the second question, I said a moment ago that the Prime Minister considers the matter closed and the Cabinet Secretary has judged it not necessary to refer the matter to the police. However, Ministers and officials would co-operate should the police want to investigate. The Secretary of State for Defence was dismissed for a breach of the Ministerial Code. I believe that the Prime Minister is entitled to have in her Cabinet colleagues in whose judgment she has confidence and whom she can trust. In this case, that confidence and trust have clearly gone.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Answer to the Urgent Question in the other place. I also fully accept his analysis of the role and responsibilities of the National Security Council but he may be over-optimistic in thinking that this matter is closed, not least because of the continuing vehemence of Mr Williamson’s denial and the continuing public expressions of anxiety from our partners in the Five Eyes. The truth is that whoever is responsible for this leak, it is an illustration of the continuing and corrosive effect of the breakdown in Cabinet responsibility in this Government. There are those who now claim that the decision of the Prime Minister is to be regarded as a vindication of her authority. I cannot resist making the observation that it would be rather better for us all if she had exercised that authority more frequently in the last three years.

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I have great respect for the noble Lord, but I did not detect a question in what he said, just some comments. Personally, I deplore all leaks, NSC and Cabinet. Colleagues should be free to express their views frankly around the Cabinet table and, once they leave the Cabinet table, should keep quiet. I hope that what happened will re-establish more discipline and collective responsibility for decisions, and that people will respect the confidentiality of what happens in Cabinet.

Bell Pottinger

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Thursday 7th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

As I said, the Government have no contracts with Bell Pottinger. I understand that the registrar is in touch with Bell Pottinger to establish whether or not it is still signed up to the codes of either the PRCA or the other professional body. In the light of those inquiries, the register will then clarify whether it is still signed up to those principles. As the legislation stands, you can be removed from the register only if you stop doing public relations business. You cannot be removed from the register for the sort of activities that we have been talking about.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

Does not a rather wider consideration arise out of these matters? While Bell Pottinger might have suffered reputationally and financially from its behaviour, the fact that it is a British company, albeit operating in a foreign country, may well have an effect on the extent to which, in the febrile atmosphere of South African politics, diplomatic representations may be disregarded.

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I have been in touch with our high commissioner in Pretoria this morning. He has made it clear that this has had a very damaging impact on our country’s reputation in South Africa, which is why I have gone out of my way to make it absolutely clear that neither the Government nor indeed the staff of the high commission in South Africa were in any way involved in this contract. The reputation of Bell Pottinger has been seriously impaired. This is a company that seeks to boost the image of other companies but here it is, having a very severe reputational hit of its own. It could perhaps begin to put that right by donating any profits it has made from the contract to some charity in South Africa.

Policing and Crime Bill

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 7th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dear (CB)]

My Lords, I support the amendment. I remind the House that I tabled much the same amendment in Committee. I suggested then that the Minister might take the amendment back, consider it and bring it back on Report—which, of course, has been done. So I record my thanks to the Minister and the officials at the Home Office for their support.

Some misgivings were expressed in Committee that face veils—religious coverings—would be caught in this legislation. I would like to make it clear—as I think is now accepted—that the only change in this amendment is to allow authorisation for the police to use existing powers to be given orally and recorded in writing later. I hope that the fears concerning religious coverings have been allayed and I am very pleased to support the amendment.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, my name was on the original amendment but I was unable to take part in Committee because of prior commitments. The noble Lord, Lord Dear, deserves more than praise for the very rational way in which he introduced this issue. The result is an entirely practical one, which is entirely consistent with the maintenance of good order and allowing the police to exercise necessary functions, sometimes in very difficult circumstances. Therefore, I too am happy to support the amendment.

Amendment 150 agreed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, I too support the noble Lord’s intention. I have a less subtle criticism of the wording. It refers to “prestige”, “promotion” and “relegation”. The noble Lord has stated very clearly that he is going for the elite. However, promotion and relegation run the whole way through all our sport. I am sure that the noble Lord was not worrying about the eastern counties division north rugby, shall we say, but it would be caught by this at the moment.

It should not be down to a Back-Bencher, even one as distinguished as the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, to be doing this. It should be taken on by the Government. There is a will to do this correctly with the Government. When the Minister replies to the noble Lord, I hope that she will let us know what the Government are doing. That is what is required. We can thank the noble Lord for opening this up. It is down to the Government to take coherent action to make sure this is happening, I hope, with other nations. As the noble Lord pointed out, they are taking their own action. If we can act together, we will be able to do more.

I applaud what the noble Lord is trying to do. I say for a fact that he has probably made far fewer mistakes than I would if I had tried to do this. Indeed, that is a fairly safe bet. I think he has missed on this, but to open up the argument and get into it he has done us a service. We have to make sure we take some action soon. Whatever else has gone before has not worked. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” clearly does not apply here.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem]

My Lords, I shall not endeavour to emulate the comprehensive approach of the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan. I will permit myself one observation: if he had been allowed a growth hormone, it is unlikely he would have been the cox of a successful, gold-medal winning Olympic eight for Great Britain. He may think that, all things considered, at least from a sporting point of view, he did the better out of the bargain.

I too am sympathetic to the purpose of the amendment. I propose to put it into historical context, perhaps from the rather narrow prism of my sport, athletics. It is almost certainly the case that the last clean Olympic Games of the modern series were the Games held in Rome in 1960. By 1964 there was anecdotal evidence, from which inferences could be drawn, that in eastern Europe there was systematic doping of track and field athletes. It became increasingly clear that that was at its height under the East German Government. As an effort to attract some privilege and prestige, it was clear that athletes in East Germany who sought to achieve the highest levels were not able to do so unless they succumbed to the programme of doping.

That had long-term effects. There is at least one noted case of a female swimmer who was subject to anabolic steroids to such an extent that her female characteristics were so badly damaged that, to regularise herself and her role in society, she transitioned from female to male. That is a clear illustration not only of the power of doping, but equally that the ingestion of drugs for performance-enhancing purposes can bring with it quite extraordinary personality and other penalties.

I am talking about anabolic steroids, which were the drugs of preference in the times I describe, but more sophisticated performance-enhancing methods are available. There are those who argue that we are engaged in a battle between the chemists in the laboratories and the investigators, with the chemists, often having greater resources and no inhibitions, having the opportunity to create circumstances which make it very difficult for the investigators to get to the truth of what is going on.

In my own sport, professionalism has now replaced the sham amateurism of the 1960s, but with that has come the opportunity for quite substantial rewards. I do not regret being an amateur, nor do I have any regret for those who are now professionals. If you are as good a professional athlete as you might be a barrister, then why should you not take full advantage of those qualities? However, as a result of that professionalism, the rewards have become quite extraordinary, far beyond the riches of Croesus that were imagined but never achieved in my time.

I shall make one confession: I suppose I broke the amateur rules once because at North Berwick at an August bank holiday meeting I was given £5 more than my legitimate expenses, and it is perhaps a measure of the time that I thought that was actually a pretty good deal. I was so heavily handicapped in the 100 yards that the local boy won by a street and a half. As I walked out, there was a notice which said “No betting allowed”, and a man took a swing at me, saying, “You weren’t trying”, so I suppose even in those days of what we thought was purity, there were other considerations.

I shall return to the main thrust of what I am trying to say. It is this—and here I echo what the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, said—a two-year ban or a four-year ban is as nothing because if they did amount to something, there would not be so many repeat offenders. People are allowed back into international sport who take the same risk and are found to have been in breach yet again. There is an issue here because the courts have traditionally been reluctant to accept the notion that the authorities can impose lifetime bans because, now that sport is professional, that has an impact on the patrimonial interest of the individual. On one view, it is preventing the individual following what is essentially his or her occupation.

The noble Lord catalogued a series of adverse consequences. Let me put a slight gloss on that and add some of my own, albeit they are expressed in a manner similar to his. The first is the damage to health and personality, to which I have already referred. The second is the undermining of the integrity of sport in a way which is almost incomprehensible. The third, as he made clear, is the unfairness to other athletes who are competing without performance-enhancing assistance. The fourth, which I do not think he mentioned, is that a culture grows up in which young, promising athletes are led to believe that the only way in which they can achieve the highest pinnacle of success is to indulge in drugs of this kind. From my membership of the Court of Arbitration for Sport I know of at least one case where it was perfectly clear beyond any question that it was not the young person but the young person’s ambitious parent. If you take these consequences, or features, of what we are talking about and add them to the comprehensive account given by the noble Lord, it seems to me that the case for my noble friend’s plea that this is something for our Government to begin to take seriously and to produce proposals to deal with is overwhelming.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Wednesday 26th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Carmichael]

Having appeared before the hon. Gentleman’s Committee on a number of occasions, I have a small suspicion that of the various options he outlined the last one is the least attractive. As I have said, the First Sea Lord will speak for himself. I have no doubt that in making his comments he felt he was speaking in the best interests of the Navy, but as I have said, the question of contracts is to be determined by Ministers, and the Secretary of State for Defence could not be clearer in his comments in this regard.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

My right hon. Friend will understand that, as someone who lived close to Yarrows shipyard for quite a long part of my life, I have a particular attachment, and indeed affection, for the notion of shipbuilding on the Clyde. Will he accept that in the event that orders from the MOD are no longer placed, the impact will be not just on jobs directly associated with the construction of ships, but on all those companies on both banks of the Clyde that supply goods and services to BAE Systems?

[Mr Carmichael]

Indeed, that is the case. Like my right hon. and learned Friend, I have my own family associations with shipbuilding on the Clyde, and I think we are probably typical of many in Scotland today. The truth of the matter is that if that business had been lost, which of course would have been a consequence of a yes vote, the implications would have been profound not just for those who are directly employed in the shipyards, but for the supply chain right across Scotland.

Murder of Lee Rigby

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Tuesday 25th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady raises an important point. As the Leader of the Opposition said, the pain that the family will feel on reading this report and reliving everything should be uppermost in our minds. A police liaison team is still working with the family, and they should know that whatever meetings they want, they can ask for and they will get.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

I hope that my right hon. Friend will excuse me for returning to the issue of resources. My quick calculation is that a sum of £130 million over two years amounts to an increase of about 3%. We are facing an unprecedented set of challenges, a matter that is publicly acknowledged not only by the Home Secretary and the Foreign Secretary but by the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police—and, indeed, the heads of the agencies themselves.

Can we really be satisfied that an increase of the kind that my right hon. Friend has mentioned—which is obviously welcome—will be adequate to deal with a problem that is not static and is almost certainly likely to increase in the years to come? Will he at least consider a review, at every possible stage, of the resources available to those who have the primary responsibility for guarding our security?

[The Prime Minister]

I say to my right hon. and learned Friend, for whom I have great respect, that this is under permanent review. This is a discussion that can be had at any time if there are particular pressures. In the spending review in 2013 we put up spending on the intelligence agencies by 3.4%, at a time when other Departments were, on average, being cut by 2.77% in real terms, on top of the 19% average departmental reduction over the previous four years. They have had a much more generous spending settlement and quite rightly so.

There is also the issue—we discussed this in the National Security Council—of how much to spend on counter-intelligence and how much to spend on counter-terrorism. The argument is often made that it is time to reduce the spend on counter-terrorism. My own view is that that is not the case and that the pressures on counter-terrorism are still very great. As the Home Secretary said yesterday, the threat is greater than for many years, so we need to keep the focus on that part of the work.

European Council

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Monday 27th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I look forward to the mayor of Calais appearing in front of the right hon. Gentleman’s Select Committee. It is very important that they are having those discussions. We are working with the French at every level to make sure we do not go back to the bad old days of Sangatte, but instead improve security around Calais. That is why the NATO fence is being erected even as we speak and why those conversations continue. I look forward to seeing how the Committee gets on tomorrow.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

May I endorse my right hon. Friend’s remarks about Afghanistan and those who gave their lives there? On this occasion, however, could we spare a thought for those who have survived, but who none the less have been subject to grievous injury?

Has my right hon. Friend noticed that the most recent Ipsos MORI poll shows that support for the United Kingdom staying in Europe has risen to a 23-year high—56% for and 36% against? Does he believe that that will be of some comfort to him not only in forging alliances in Europe in order to bring about the reform we all think is appropriate, but in helping him combat UKIP and anyone else who wants to bring Britain out unilaterally?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right in what he says about the injured who have returned from Afghanistan. Members on both sides of the House now need to make a commitment that Governments for many years to come will look after these people and make sure that we continue to funnel the LIBOR fines into defence and veterans’ charities, as we have been doing.

On the issue of European reform, the most popular and the right approach is not to accept the question of in/out today on the current terms, but to negotiate better terms and then give the British people the choice. That is the right approach.