Telecommunications Infrastructure (Leasehold Property) Bill

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Report stage & Report stage (Hansard) & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 29th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kennedy of Cradley (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her comments. In response, I will cut my remarks short.

I very much support the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and I am sure that he and other noble Lords will welcome the Minister’s offer to discuss this further before Third Reading. The Minister says that this will wreck the purpose of the Bill, but I do not accept that. As the noble Lord, Lord Alton, has said, he welcomes a government amendment setting a human rights threshold that has support across this House and does not wreck the Bill but supports its purpose. We could then achieve both recommendations.

For me the issue is very simple. As the Minister set out, the Government see themselves as leaders in the fight against modern slavery. However, if you have world-leading legislation on modern slavery, it is incongruous not to seek to stop any part of our digital supply chain for the UK being used to prop up forced labour in human rights abuses in other countries.

I am very pleased to hear the Minister’s commitment to discussing this further and to bring it back at Third Reading. Obviously, whether we divide on this issue tonight is a matter for the noble Lord, Lord Alton. If we do, he will have my support. If we do not, he will have my support at Third Reading.

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I must begin by saying that it was unfortunate that the Minister intervened at the point that she did. It illustrates to me how unsatisfactory a virtual or hybrid parliament is. There is no real opportunity to hold the Government to account, and that is what Parliament is about. Had she come in at the end, my inclination would probably have been to say that the noble Lord, Lord Alton, should not put his amendment to the House this evening, but I am bound to say that if he does, he certainly will have my support, if only to send a signal that we are not content with the way in which Parliament is conducting its business at the moment.

I will say just a few words about the issue. My parliamentary hero was William Wilberforce. I even wrote a short biography of him to mark the 150th anniversary of his death, way back in 1983. Above all things, his career showed that determination and persistence are essential if you are going to triumph in a great cause.

I shall always be proud of what our country achieved in abolishing the slave trade and then the institution of slavery itself and of the part our Royal Navy played in seeking to stamp it out around the world. But slavery still exists, and it seems quite extraordinary that, at a time when all manner of things are being said outside this House, we should be contemplating any sort of alliance with a company that is an arm of a totalitarian state.

When I came into the other place 50 years ago, the first post I took on was chairman of the Committee for the Release of Soviet Jewry, a persecuted minority within the then Soviet Union in the middle of the Cold War. I always remember sending a Jewish Bible to a young man at his bar mitzvah signed by virtually every Member of the other place, including the Prime Minister, Edward Heath, and the Leader of the Opposition, Harold Wilson. It was sent back.

That showed that gestures made in Parliament have a role and an importance. Inserting this amendment, or something very like it, into the Bill, although it might be a little inconvenient, would say something fundamentally right, important and true. We cannot allow ourselves to appear weak as China gathers in strength and importance. We must also remember that we have a treaty obligation to the people of Hong Kong. It is important that we do all we can to ensure that the Chinese honour that international treaty.

I move off the subject merely because I am rather cross and because I do not believe that this is the way to conduct parliamentary business. The future might be very bleak unless we are prepared to show the Chinese that if they want real respect, they must have regard for the rule of law and the way in which they treat their people. Less than 20 years after we sent that Jewish Bible to Moscow, the Berlin Wall came down. I rest my case.

[Lord Blunkett (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I had intended to make a substantive contribution on human rights, the much broader foreign policy and trade implications, and on where this country stands, but in light of the intervention of the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, and the wind-up of the Minister, I see no point making that speech this evening. Therefore, I will rest for another day.

EU: British Musicians

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

The department is leading a major programme of work across all our sectors which is trying to ensure that they, and our arm’s-length bodies, are well prepared for the end of the transition period in relation to this point and more broadly.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I appreciate my noble friend’s commitment but I urge her to talk to her colleagues in Cabinet and says that this is a very urgent matter. Billions of pounds are involved but, far more important than that, the reputation of our musicians is second to none. It is essential that there is uninhibited freedom for musicians from Europe to play in the United Kingdom and for United Kingdom musicians to play in Europe without having visa or financial barriers, or any other sorts of barriers. We are talking about the international language; let it be spoken loud and clear beyond the end of the transition period.

[Baroness Barran]

I am more than happy to share my noble friend’s advice with Cabinet colleagues. I stress that in all our negotiations we are seeking to minimise any friction through customs or other administrative issues.

Covid-19: Museums, Galleries and Historic Buildings

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 21st May 2020 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Cormack]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to support (1) museums, (2) galleries, and (3) historic buildings open to the public, affected by the restrictions in place to address the COVID-19 pandemic.

The Question was considered in a Virtual Proceeding via video call.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am very glad to have this opportunity to raise this extremely important issue. I thank all colleagues who have put their names down to speak. I express two hopes: one is that the House authorities will be able to get together and ensure that in all future debates, no Member who speaks has less than three minutes; the other is that we will very soon be back in our own Chamber debating normally.

The United Kingdom’s museums and galleries, both national and provincial—our castles, country houses, parish churches and great cathedrals—individually and collectively proclaim our local and national identity. However, they are also priceless assets that generate enormous sums every year. When we are once again able to welcome tourists, they will come not for the weather, or to bask on our beaches. Many surveys over decades have established that visiting our heritage is the main reason visitors come to the United Kingdom.

Unless there is a return of the pestilence, we hope to see a controlled and monitored reopening of some of these buildings in July, although many, including those belonging to the National Trust, will remain shut throughout the summer. But what of future summers? A survey of 1,200 heritage sector organisations by the National Lottery Heritage Fund revealed that 46% believe that they cannot survive for another six months. Equally alarming, Historic England reports that 40% of smaller craft-based businesses and professional services such as architects, surveyors and engineers forecast business failure within three months. Similar disturbing findings come from the Heritage Crafts Association, of which I am a patron.

Hilary McGrady, who is the director-general of the National Trust, has announced that its income will fall by £200 million this year. The trust is Europe’s largest conservation charity, with responsibility for 780 miles of coastline, 240 hectares of land, 500 historic houses, parks and gardens, and one in 12 of all accredited museums in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Already, it is seeing a decline in its 5 million membership, and its major conservation and restoration projects are on hold. The position of English Heritage, which has responsibility for such iconic sites as Stonehenge, Hadrian’s Wall and the Cenotaph in Westminster, is precarious, and it will need an injection of government funds.

A large number of historic houses open to the public are in an even more difficult position. Many of them depend on income from hosting events, especially summer weddings; everything planned for this year has been cancelled; and those with wonderful gardens are not allowed to open them—an extraordinary anomaly in view of the very sensible recent decision to open garden centres. Garden tourism alone accounts for £3 billion a year and employs 32,000 people, most of them at the moment on furlough. As for museums and galleries, many of the smaller ones, in spite of emergency grants from the Arts Council, may well not survive.

The Church of England is responsible for 12,000 grade 1 and grade 2* listed churches, which are largely dependent on the fundraising of often dwindling—and ageing—congregations. One diocesan Bishop said recently that he expected many in his diocese to close. I speak, literally, in the shadow of Lincoln Cathedral, one of the greatest of all our cathedrals. It costs more than £50,000 a week to maintain, and that does not account for any restoration or repair, nor for the cost of the staff and the dedicated and very skilful craftsmen and women.

I salute the Chancellor for his efforts to save the economy. His furlough scheme in particular has been of enormous help in the heritage sector. Both the National Trust and English Heritage have taken full and proper advantage of it. But the repercussions of the failure of the tourist industry—the backbone of the economy in many parts of the country—are truly dreadful to contemplate. Yet, if architects and craftsmen go to the wall, not only will valuable jobs and skills be lost; our historic buildings will be at greater risk than ever before.

With the stroke of a pen, Mr Sunak could make a great contribution to their survival—by removing VAT on restoration. It is inexplicable that restoration carries 20% VAT and new-build carries none at all, so I hope that he will take that message. Although the Chancellor’s support for front-line charities is most welcome, it will do little to help support charities in the heritage and cultural sectors, whose work is essential for the physical and mental well-being of us all as we emerge from lockdown.

The Arts Council, to which I have referred, has already helped museums such as the Foundling Museum in London, the Pen Museum in Birmingham and the Yorkshire Museum of Farming in York, from the extra funds it is allocating. However, it has had more than 200 applications, and many of them it will not be able to reply to positively.

The National Lottery Heritage Fund—as we must now call it—has taken swift action, too, but we need the Government to play a central role in bringing all those with heritage responsibilities together and in giving clear and encouraging guidance to those who, like English Heritage, are desperate to open those buildings where they can make an admission charge and where they have staff to whom they are responsible. It is disturbing to hear the director-general of the National Trust saying:

“The Government needs to engage better with organisations such as ourselves. We need real clarity of message about what is acceptable and what is not, as do the public. We also need as much notice as possible in order to plan our approach and prepare our sites.”


Our heritage could prove to be the greatest victim of Covid-19. How tragic it would be if this pernicious pestilence endangered our collective memory, our sense of being and our understanding of our history, and led to the permanent impoverishment of future generations. Let not ours be the generation that allowed that to happen.

Arts and Cultural Services

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Earl of Devon (CB)]

My Lords, the country’s private historic houses welcome—

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

We have not had a question yet. I thank the noble Earl very much. Does my noble friend accept that, where a wonderful purpose-built gallery and grade 2 listed building—such as the Usher Gallery in Lincoln—is at risk, the local authority has a duty to consider every possible means of maintaining it, and perhaps to explore the creation of a trust to which the gallery can be transferred? Does she accept that to deprive people of a gallery that is the most important benefaction the city has ever received would be a very serious step indeed?

[Baroness Barran]

I hear the concern about the situation in Lincoln in my noble friend’s voice. I feel, however, that it is up to the local authority to look at every possible option, as he says.

UK Telecommunications

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 28th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Morgan of Cotes]

It is a delight to agree with the noble Lord. I and my colleagues have been thoroughly impressed with the careful, systematic way in which GCHQ, the NCSC and other services have advised the National Security Council on this matter. He is right: if they felt that different advice should have been given, it would have been given. I put on record my thanks to them for all the work that they have done on this.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that there is real concern when dealing with a totalitarian state that thinks not in electoral cycles but in the long, long term? Can she give a total assurance that this matter will be kept under constant surveillance and review? I and many others fear that we may be going for short-term advantage and creating long-term vulnerability.

[Baroness Morgan of Cotes]

I can give the assurance to the noble Lord that this matter will, of course, be kept under constant review. That is one reason why we want to legislate to give the regulator and the Government the power not only to ask nicely for high-risk vendors not to be overly involved in our networks, but also to enforce a cap. In relation to the periphery, I stress again, for the benefit of all those watching or listening, that the high-risk vendors will not be part of our core network infrastructure. The noble Lord set out the concerns of many in relation to dealings with China, which we have fully understood and reflected in our discussions.

Local Authorities: Tourism

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 28th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

On the Scottish approach, we will clearly be watching developments there closely and aim to learn from them. In relation to the Birmingham Commonwealth Games, I have been reassured that my honourable friend the Minister in the other place had confirmation from Birmingham City Council that there is no need for additional taxation: it can meet the cost of the games.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, if the DCMS believes in tourism, why does it not stand up to the Treasury?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord has more experience than I have of standing up to the Treasury. The DCMS absolutely believes in tourism: that is why we were so committed to working for a sector deal, which has been universally welcomed by all parts of the industry and gives us exciting opportunities to develop it, particularly outside London.

Online Pornography: Age Verification

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 17th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

I thank the right reverend Prelate for his question and the work he does in the Centre for Data Ethics, which clearly has an important role in this space. In relation to urgency, I hope I can reassure him that my honourable friend the Minister is absolutely determined to do this as quickly as is feasible. We plan to respond to the consultation before the end of the year and to introduce a draft Bill in the new year. Obviously, as noble Lords are aware, we announced pre-legislative scrutiny of that Bill, which we very much hope will make it as future-proof as possible.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, why do we not protect everyone from pornography? Why cannot the transmission of pornography online—to children and to everyone—be a criminal offence?

[Baroness Barran]

My noble friend raises a much wider issue about individual freedoms, which I am aware have been debated on many occasions in your Lordships’ House. The encouragement I offer him in that regard is twofold. First, I make a clear distinction between illegal and legal pornography. The online harms work gives us an opportunity to look again at the definition. Secondly, whether to look at pornography or not is clearly a choice.

Museums and Galleries: Financial Sustainability

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord will be aware that museums act as arm’s-length bodies. Therefore, it is up to the trustees of each museum to scrutinise potential donors and make their own judgments on this.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, for the very first time, I find myself in absolute disagreement with the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty. I believe it is very important that museums and galleries should receive sponsorship. Where does one draw the line? If a bank was “BP Bank” and offered some sponsorship, would one not accept it? That is utterly ridiculous and totally against the interests of our great museums. I do not mind saying to my noble friend that I would be delighted to receive some sponsorship from BP for the art gallery that I am struggling to save in Lincoln.

Lotteries Regulation

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 16th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for doing all he can to protect the exclusive position of the National Lottery. John Major’s legacy is in fact one of the most positive legacies of any Prime Minister in peacetime. He deserves the thanks of all parts of the House for that. But I enter one note of caution. Is my noble friend aware that the munificent grants from the National Lottery have recently begun to decline in the heritage sector? The assisted places of worship scheme has been abandoned, which does not mean that money is not being given to places of worship but there is no longer one exclusive earmarked pot. I am glad to see the noble Baroness, Lady Harris, with her interest in Ripon Cathedral—mine, of course, is in Lincoln—nodding vigorously. Will my noble friend keep his eye on this? Anything that significantly reduced the impact of the National Lottery in the field of heritage, sport and the arts would be a blow to all parts of the nation.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I completely agree with my noble friend. Heritage causes, among others, are very important and have benefited hugely from the National Lottery, which gives about £1.6 billion a year to good causes. I cannot remember the exact figure for national heritage, but I think it is £300 million to £400 million of that. It is a reasonably significant amount. I certainly will keep an eye on it. The Minister, whose name I have forgotten—I did not forget her name, I forgot her title; I know what her name is—is keen to make sure we continue to provide as much as we can for good causes, which certainly include heritage. In many ways the structure we have prevents Governments directly getting into exactly what is provided for through the National Lottery, which is good, but I certainly take my noble friend’s point about heritage, which continues to be a very important part of what the National Lottery supports.

National Lottery Heritage Fund Grants: Conservation Management Plans

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The National Archives has talked to bodies such as the National Lottery Heritage Fund to make sure that they can make arrangements in future so that there is a single point of access, if you like, for these documents. As I said before, the issue is making sure that the owner of the intellectual property or the copyright enables that to happen. Physically, it is possible. The archives sector is discussing that, and Historic England is promoting the heritage information access strategy, which is designed to do exactly that and have one point of access.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, as we are marking this very month the 150th anniversary of the Historical Manuscripts Commission, now subsumed in the National Archives, can my noble friend follow up on what he said a few minutes ago, indicating that what have been destroyed are copies? Can we establish how many of the originals survive, and at the very least can a list of those—properly tabulated—be deposited in the National Archives?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

As I mentioned earlier, the fund has offered to compile a list of the 1,300 park and garden projects for which conservation management plans might have been produced, although it estimates that there are about 500 to 600. As I said, that list will be available to those who ask for it.