Housing: Underoccupancy Charge

Debate between Lord Freud and Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds

Monday 20th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, I have looked very closely at the issue of rural communities. That was why, this year, we put in an extra £5 million a year to handle the subsidy arrangements, which buys out a substantial proportion of the cost of this policy.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, what flexibility is there for housing authorities in the implementation of the underoccupancy charge in circumstances such as when a child dies and the house thereby becomes underoccupied?

[Lord Freud]

The basic principle here is that when a child dies or there is a death, there is a 12-month run-on so that tenants remain entitled to that room for that full year. However, the underpinning support for making sure that these cases of hardship are managed is clearly the discretionary housing fund, which is running at £180 million this year and will be at £165 million next year.

Mesothelioma Bill [HL]: Impact

Debate between Lord Freud and Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds

Tuesday 25th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, as my noble friend pointed out, this scheme is based on a levy on insurers who are active in the market today, not those who may have actually been responsible for the historic liability. It is very difficult to assess who takes the real burden of the cost. I have been very anxious to get to a position where I am as assured as I can be that the bulk of that cost is carried by the insurance industry, not by British industry as a whole. The risk is that if the levy is too high, the amount would have to be passed on by the industry.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, not so long ago, I was at the bedside of one of our clergy who died of mesothelioma, having not been diagnosed until very late. Will the Minister tell us what part sufferers themselves, their relatives and support groups will play in managing what sometimes comes over as an agreement and arrangement between government and insurance agencies?

[Lord Freud]

Let me make it absolutely clear that we have been acting as the agents of the sufferers in our discussions with the insurance industry. The idea that there is some kind of cosy relationship between government and the insurance industry is absolutely not true. It has been a really tough business to get a deal through. I talk regularly to victims’ groups and lawyers. I get their support and as we develop the next stage, which is a practical process, I will be getting their views and having them very much in mind.

Housing Benefit

Debate between Lord Freud and Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds

Wednesday 15th May 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, we are looking for local authorities to deal with this matter with adults. We think that there is a difference between disabled children and disabled adults in that disabled children cannot know whether they pose a risk to themselves or to another child whereas adults and couples are able to exercise choice in how they run their lives.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, I am told that estimates in Hull suggest that some 6,000 people there are affected by the under-occupancy rule and that there are something like 70 flats available for them to be moved to. I hear similar stories from all over the country. Will the Minister tell us just what people are supposed to do when no smaller accommodation can be offered?

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, there has been a substantial exercise by many local authorities and housing associations around the country to try to juggle people’s requirements. The figures on social-sector housing provision in England show that 31% of the housing has one bedroom, 34% has two bedrooms and the remaining 35% has three or more bedrooms. So there is provision. It is a question of getting people moved into the right accommodation. Let us not forget that 250,000 people are in overcrowded circumstances and 1.8 million people are on the waiting list for social housing.

Youth Unemployment

Debate between Lord Freud and Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds

Tuesday 14th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

First, long-term youth unemployment has not changed a lot. What changed is that youngsters were put on training programmes and, when they came off them, they were called newly unemployed. The underlying position has not changed very much in terms of long-term youth unemployment. I am not saying that that is not a real problem but I am saying that it has not grown as much as one might think, looking at the raw figures. Clearly we need to help youngsters in long-term unemployment, and one of the things that the work programme is specifically designed to do is to get support for youngsters on an individualised basis.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, what are the Government doing to improve careers advice in schools so that young people can be helped into appropriate employment?

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, we are making it a statutory duty to ensure that schools take up their responsibility to provide careers advice, so that it is supplied at the point it should be, right where it is best received. Existing provision has been much too patchy.

Welfare Reform Bill

Debate between Lord Freud and Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds

Wednesday 23rd November 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Freud]

I wish to make it clear that I absolutely do not accept that figure. I have said that we are introducing a lot of measures in advance to make sure that that figure does not arise.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, will the Minister develop a little further the argument as regards Amendment 99C, which concerns the lone parent with a child under the age of five? It seems to me that there needs to be more discussion about the whole question of whether people in those circumstances —this would apply to kinship carers as well—are being encouraged to seek work or to move back into work. It is often argued that they should not be working and that the important thing is that they look after their child under the age of five, or, if they are kinship carers, that they give up work in order to take on that responsibility, which may have suddenly arisen. It seems to me that we ought, therefore, to take much more seriously the possibility that they ought to be exempted because we do not, as a society or a Government, want them to be working.

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, I hope I made clear my sympathy on the kinship carer point. I am looking at it in the round. On the lone parent point, I am afraid I am reduced to the underlying principle that there is a level of pay for people, which we have set at the equivalent of earnings of £35,000. Do not forget that, by definition, half the households in the country receive less than that amount because it is the median amount, and that is why we have fixed on that figure.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, I will not make any promises on this but I will have another look at it. That is the weakest of possible promises. In fact, I am trying to say that it is not a promise at all. The signal I am giving is that I will have another look at it, but that is no guarantee of anything happening.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, I am very grateful to all those who have taken part in this long and detailed debate on this group of amendments. I am grateful to the Minister for the way in which he has engaged with the discussions. I take a certain amount of hope from some of the things that he has said about taking account of the arguments, which we have shared, and about some specifics, such as references to attendance allowance, to childcare costs, repeatedly, and to free school meals, that there will be exemptions which we can see in those areas. I am also encouraged by the beginnings of a discussion on the issue of carers, in particular kinship carers. I very much hope that that can be taken further in our debates. I am rather less encouraged by the comments on housing benefit, but I hope that there can be ways in which, at least in terms of transitional arrangements, we can move forward on those as well.

The area in which I am least encouraged relates to the amendment on child benefit. We still have not got a real answer to the question of why child benefit counts on one side of the scales and not on the other, a point that the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, has made several times in this debate. We can only use the figure £35,000 on the basis that we are not comparing like with like, otherwise it does not make sense as a figure to be used. That seems to me to be regrettable and I hope that the Minister will be prepared to have another look at this and to discuss just what the place of child benefit—perhaps the key benefit—is within the whole of our society, over many years, in terms of the cap. Having said that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Welfare Reform Bill

Debate between Lord Freud and Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds

Monday 21st November 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Freud]

I should like to engage in a detailed debate on this, but all I can tell noble Lords at this stage is that we are looking at how we ease the transition for families, and we are looking at providing assistance in hard cases.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

I have two points. First, do I understand that now, in contrast to the research done some months ago, a far lower proportion of those affected by the cap are in social housing? If so, where have they gone—the people who were in social housing a few months ago but who no longer are?

Going back to the original amendment that we are, in a way, discussing, my second, unconnected, question is that I have still not quite understood why it is inappropriate, when looking at the cap, to look at families with children separately from couples. We have the distinction between singles and couples. Surely, in any discussion of how a cap should operate, children are fundamental and families with children are fundamentally different from those who do not have children. Should that not somewhere come into the way in which the cap, and therefore this clause, are established?

[Lord Northbourne]

I support that view.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Freud]

It is for local authorities to make decisions on individual homelessness applications, as they do now. Under homelessness legislation, if the only reason for the person’s homelessness is a reduction in benefit that is outside their control, they should not be considered intentionally homeless by their local authority.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

Perhaps I may just thank everyone for all the contributions that have been made. I also thank the Minister for his engagement with the collection of questions that have been asked of him over the past half-hour or so. I retain considerable disappointment in terms of moving forward in this area. There is clearly considerable disquiet among your Lordships over how this is developing. We have not yet pursued far enough issues such as the couple penalty, which the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, spoke about. We have been exploring homelessness but have not got all that far. It might grow as a result of the cap. The noble Lord, Lord German, and others made points about children. I do not detect any likelihood that the amendment will be accepted unanimously by this Committee but it is with considerable reluctance that I withdraw it. I know that a number of these debates will need to go on behind the scenes if we are not to have the debate all over again on Report. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.