Defence Funding

Debate between Lord Pitt-Watson and Baroness Foster of Oxton

Thursday 17th September 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Foster of Oxton]

To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they plan to reduce the welfare budget to fund defence.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, HM Treasury (Lord Pitt-Watson) (Lab)]

The Government’s commitment to the defence of this country is absolute. We have the third-highest absolute expenditure on defence among our allies. We will honour our NATO commitment of 3.5% by 2035. In direct answer to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Bellingham, we will set the target date in the spending review for 3%. We are also committed to bear down on the welfare bill, but not by arbitrarily punishing those who depend on it. Finally, I note, and I hope the House understands this, that these two issues are not inextricably linked and that it is a danger if politicians suggest that we need to make false choices.

[Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply, but the fact is that the welfare bill is heading towards £350 billion. The total income tax take last year was £330 billion, with public sector debt reaching 94% by mid-2026. In the last Government, Sir Keir Starmer could not persuade his Back-Benchers to reduce the welfare bill by £5 billion per annum. So, I ask the Minister: can we assume that this Prime Minister will also continue to put social security before national security in order for his Members of Parliament to hang on to their parliamentary seats?

[Lord Pitt-Watson (Lab)]

My Lords, that is exactly the sort of false choice that we need to guard against. We want to be clear that we spend the welfare budget well. That is why we have the Timms review on PIPs and why we have the Milburn review on NEETs and getting a system for getting people back to work.

Since it was quite a long question, I would like to tell noble Lords about fraud. By the end of this Parliament, the Government will be saving £4.3 billion on fraud in the welfare system that they inherited. I think they learned from the noble Lord, Lord Agnew, a Conservative Peer and one of my predecessors, who stood at this Dispatch Box and said that it was arrogance, indolence and ignorance that was stopping us bearing down on it and that he hoped his resignation would make someone do something about it. We are and we will.