House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) Bill

Lord Saatchi Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 11th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Saatchi (Con)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the two Front Benches in the Whips’ Office for allowing me to speak at this very late stage. I have been given a very strict time limit and I will stick to it exactly. I give my salutations to the noble Baroness, Lady Quin, and congratulations to my noble friend Lord Brady. Will the noble Baroness the Leader of the House allow me to address her directly now with an appeal to put aside, just for a minute, hereditary versus life Peers, the over-80s, participation rates et cetera and look at the broader context of the Bill in British politics today?

Everyone agrees that there is a general demoralisation. All polls show that the British people think things have “got worse” in the last five years and will not get any better in the next five years. Maybe that is just about money, the cost of living and so on, or maybe there is more to it. Maybe people do not like it when Governments keep breaking their promises on immigration, tax, the NHS et cetera. Maybe they do not like having to wait five years until the next election before somebody will listen to what they say. In their manifesto, as we have heard many times, the Government made a promise of “modernisation”. It is a good word. I looked it up. It means development, renewal and upgrade. I would like to help the noble Baroness the Leader of the House to deliver on that good promise of modernisation.

An obvious way to demonstrate modernisation is to do something modern. How about some new technology? Would it not be wonderful if our House would lead the way with new technology to invite people to participate a little more with questions, discussion and conversation about what we do here—what the noble Lord the Lord Speaker himself has called a “direct connection” between Westminster and the people—to overcome what my noble friend Lady Stowell calls “the democratic deficit”? ChatGPT now speaks to 280 million people a week. With a little help from our friends in OpenAI and Microsoft, we could easily create our own parliamentary version of ChatGPT, which we can very happily call ChatLords. The noble Baroness the Leader of the House may wonder why she should take any advice from me, of all people. After all, Professor David Butler, the master of the history of British general elections, told me directly that I was “personally responsible”—I am quoting his words—for “ruining British politics”. I asked how I had done that, and he explained that it was by, “Turning all British general elections into negative campaigning”. I defended myself by pointing out that nine of the 10 commandments are negative. He was not impressed.

I will end. The noble Baroness the Leader of the House is rightly proud of her party’s electoral success, built on its reputation for caring about the people. If that promise too is not to be broken, I hope she might consider taking forward this proposal for a more participative form of democracy led by your Lordships’ House.

House of Lords Reform

Lord Saatchi Excerpts

Tuesday 12th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Saatchi (Con)]

My Lords, I take your Lordships back to the occasion in the White House when President Nixon was discussing a particularly troublesome affair of state with Henry Kissinger. Mr Nixon made a proposal to solve the problem and Dr Kissinger disapproved, saying, “Mr President, I must remind you of the famous saying, ‘You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time’”. President Nixon leaned back in his chair, thought carefully for a few moments and then said, “Henry, those sound like pretty good odds to me”. But they are not good odds, are they? On the contrary, as we have just seen in Britain and America, when a Government take people for granted, catastrophic election defeat follows.

In Britain, certainly, has there not been a growing acknowledgement of a disconnect between people and Parliament—a sense of disappointment and disillusionment with what the democratic system has provided? Apparently, British people of all ages and demographics feel underrepresented by an elite political class that sometimes seems neither to hear them or to care what they say—exactly as my noble friend Lady Stowell said when she described the “democratic deficit”. Therefore, I put the case to the House that something needs to be done to bridge this social divide, and that it could be us. Yes, surprisingly, our House of Lords, the pinnacle of the elite establishment, can play a significant role to achieve that.

I propose that we lead the way to reconnect people with Parliament, to offer them more participation and consultation—new ways, granted to us by AI technology, to allow people to express their thoughts and see a connection between their views and what is happening here. I put the case that, if we led in that, it would greatly enhance our public reputation. Your Lordships may ask what technology has to do with our time-honoured practices, but please consider this: any one of the seven top American technology companies is now worth more than the entire UK stock market.

At the moment, the phrase “listening to the people” has achieved the status of meaningless waffle. The closest we get is when the House of Commons receives 100,000 petitions, and a little-known body called the Petitions Committee will “consider scheduling this petition for debate in Parliament at a future date”. That is not democracy—it is bureaucracy, and it is patronising. Times change, and this is not the era of Cardinal Wolsey or Henry VIII, and the people are not petitioners. Do we need to be reminded—of course, we do not—that the Government do not actually have any money? It is all the people’s money; they pay for everything—the heating, the lighting, the staff, the cleaning, the Library and the security. They pay the bills, and they are the owners, and to ignore the owners is not only rude but illogical.

In the 1960s, 4% of the people went to university; now it is 50%. They do not have to rely on the BBC to tell them what is going on—they know it all in seconds. Call me sad, but I have probably seen more British public opinion research than any living person, and there is only one conclusion: the British people are the most intelligent, aware and sophisticated electorate in the world. With apologies to the Leader of the House, the people have more knowledge with ChatGPT and their phone than the entire Government Front Bench put together. Nobody understands this better than the team in No. 10, which is why it asks people’s opinion on everything every minute of every day—they just do it in private, so let us try doing it in public so everyone can see what people are saying.

Noble Lords will hear many objections, which I shall recite very quickly. People will say, “People aren’t ready; people don’t have the skills to be involved—they’re not informed”. Well, somehow, they manage to do perfectly well. You may hear it said that the people lack the interest, time or motivation to be involved in lawmaking and that they will be influenced by lobbyists and special interests—but is not that what happens in Parliament now? Or it may be said that the people’s modesty means that they are willing to rely on officials who are better qualified, and willing to doff their cap to the passing horsedrawn carriage. If there are such people, I have never met them.

I shall finish with this—let us consider our House. I put it to noble Lords that, if this House of Lords had a logo, it would be a light under a bushel. It is time to awaken our sleeping beauty. These days, the House of Lords is a body that receives very little praise; there is usually offhand criticism of our motives or behaviour. But for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, the Hansards of the well-mannered and illuminating debates in the Lords bear witness that this place is overwhelmingly occupied by intelligent, reasonable and responsible people, honestly striving by their own best lights to prospect for real ideas with the unremitting zeal of a prospector hunting gold.

I have to summarise now to stay in time—

[Noble Lords]

Time!

[Lord Saatchi (Con)]

Yes, I am going to end. With regard to the participative democracy that I describe, the Government, while they are attempting what they call immediate modernisation of the Lords, might consider modernising the Lords in a true sense, in terms of our relationship with the people and the people’s ability to influence what we do.

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

My Lords, as previously said, the advisory speaking time is five minutes. For every 30 seconds that people go over, we add on half an hour to the debate—so I draw your Lordships’ attention to that matter.

Death of a Member: Baroness Thatcher

Lord Saatchi Excerpts

Wednesday 10th April 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Saatchi]

My Lords, the words party loyalty and love of party are often derided. They can lead to tribal politics, too much adversarial behaviour, tit for tat, Punch and Judy, and so on. But those words in the hands of Margaret Thatcher had a magnificence which only she could have achieved. I will explain how I know that.

After she was deposed, the view arose in our party that it would be a good thing, as there was much tension in the party at the time, obviously, if the former Prime Minister was invited to our party conference. It would be cathartic. She would not speak—that would be too dangerous—but she would go on to the stage to receive the applause of the party and that would be a cathartic moment. That was the idea.

I was with her in the green room in Blackpool and, in the course of making the kind of conversation that one does in the green room at party conferences, she said, “What did you do last night, Maurice?”. I said, “I had a lovely dinner with Professor Anthony King”, whom she knew. She said, “Where did you go?”. I said, “We went to a lovely restaurant, but a funny thing happened”. She asked what. I explained that we were upstairs; the downstairs was absolutely packed, as all restaurants in Blackpool are during party conference week. I explained that, upstairs, there was only our table for two and the rest of the room was empty. A long table was laid out for dinner for about 16 people. Professor King and I had the room to ourselves, as I explained. I also explained to her that when it came to pay the bill, I asked the woman who owned the restaurant: “What happened to those people?”. It was a shocking moment and I remember it vividly. I have never described it before, but I am doing so now. She said, “You did this. Your party did this. Don’t you realise that my husband and I can’t keep this place running. Party conference week is the most important week of our lives. Without the money from party conference week, this restaurant would close”. I said that I was very sorry; I paid the bill and we left. It was very upsetting. She was in tears.

I explained all that to Margaret and then—this is exactly what happened—she said, “Maurice, pass me my handbag”. I did not know what she was talking about. I passed her handbag to her and she started to rummage inside and took out her pen. She continued to rummage inside and took out a cheque book. She said, “Maurice, what was the name of the restaurant you went to last night?”. I said, “I think it was the Blackpool Brasserie”. She wrote the words Blackpool Brasserie on the cheque and said, “How much do you think they lost as a result of those people not coming?”. I said, “I don’t know, £300 or £350”. She made out the cheque; she signed it “Margaret Thatcher”. She tore it out of her cheque book, gave it to me and said, “I want you, Maurice, to take this cheque to the restaurant, give it to the man or the woman who owns it and tell them, ‘Conservatives don’t behave like that’”. What a woman.