Scotland and North-east England Post-2014

Lord Wharton of Yarm Excerpts

Tuesday 4th March 2014 Westminster Hall

[James Wharton (Stockton South) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Weir, and it is a privilege to follow the party political broadcast for the Scottish National party—we look forward to the idea of “Scotland, the new Liechtenstein” being rolled out in the referendum debate. I feared that I would not get to speak, so I will be brief, to allow other Members to contribute.

In principle, I support allowing Scotland a referendum, so that the people can decide. How could I not, with my track record of advocating referendums? I am concerned, however, about the way in which the referendum has come about, and about its legitimacy, given who will be voting. I have never quite been resigned to the anomaly that allows 400,000 English people living in Scotland to vote, but 500,000 Scottish people living in England not to vote. It is strange that many of the Scottish people whom I represent will have no say, but my mother who lives in Hamilton will get a vote—she will, I am sure, vote to remain part of the United Kingdom.

We are primarily present, however, to discuss not the referendum, its format or how it came about, but what it might mean. There are two possible options. Scotland could, of course, vote to leave the United Kingdom. That is unlikely, because the Scottish people are sensible enough to want to remain part of the United Kingdom, but the possibility remains. They might be persuaded by the slogans and rhetoric of those who legitimately make the argument for independence. As we have discussed this morning, though, there would then be all sorts of problems and unanswered questions. How would they deal with taking a share of the national debt? How much would that share be, and what would the deal look like? What would the currency be, if it cannot be sterling? What would Scotland’s relationship with the European Union look like?

[Mr MacNeil]

I am surprised at some of the hon. Gentleman’s words. Would he be in favour of Scotland using sterling?

[James Wharton]

No, I would not, personally. It would be a suboptimal position, were Scotland to go independent, and I think that Scotland would not find it to be in its long-term interests.

Furthermore, how would Scotland deal with an exodus of companies that have made it clear that they would not be comfortable remaining based in Scotland were it to cast itself adrift from the United Kingdom? All those questions have been debated at some length, however, and I want to look at what is more likely to happen. It is more likely that Scotland will sensibly vote to remain part of the UK. That is why this debate is important, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) on it. What happens in that case could be important for the region that he and I represent; indeed, it could have an impact on the north-east and the north-west, and on the north of England as a whole. Without doubt, debate would quickly move on to further devolution, devo-max and what Scotland will look like as part of the United Kingdom, post the independence referendum. What would the new settlement be? I have no doubt that there would be a push for further powers to be devolved and further control to be transferred to the Scottish Parliament, and I fear what that would mean for the north-east.

We already have a competitive disadvantage in the north-east as a result of some of the powers that Scotland has devolved to it today. As regards competition with the north-east, Scottish Enterprise is able to give an extra push towards investing in Scotland, and to appeal to companies on where they bring their business, employment and investment. It is not necessarily the case that Teesside and Tyneside would prosper at the expense of places such as Aberdeen, but the reality is that companies choose where they will be located. There should be a level playing field, with fair conditions on both sides of the border, when companies make that choice.

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[James Wharton]

I will not give way to the hon. Gentleman again, because we are short of time.

After Scotland votes to remain part of the United Kingdom, as I am sure it will, my concern is that the north of England will face a challenge. While we do everything we can to support the country, the economy and its growth as a whole, we must ensure that we do not allow an unfair competitive advantage that would damage the economies of the people and constituencies that we represent.

[Tom Blenkinsop]

The hon. Gentleman and I know that the growth of Teesport in our region is massively dependent on exports to the Scottish market. For example, last January, Bunn Fertiliser announced that it would use Teesport to export not only to its English sites, but to the Scottish market. Can he give any other examples in our area of the Scottish market being so crucial to Teesside?

[James Wharton]

The examples are legion. The entire chemical processing industry and our engineering expertise on Teesside are in competition for jobs and investment with similar industry in many parts of Scotland. That goes not only for Teesside, but for Tyneside, Wearside, County Durham and the north of England as a whole. It is important for us to work together, and to improve the economies of all such areas where we can. We must not allow unfair competition that would unjustifiably and unfairly penalise the people we represent in the north of England.

Where would that take us? If Scotland voted to remain in the United Kingdom, the greater debate would be the one that took place in the north of England. The push would be for further regionalisation. We had a vote some years ago on whether we wanted a regional assembly, and the proposal was rejected in an outstandingly clear result. My concern is that that movement and impetus would arise again, out of a feeling of unfairness about Scotland being able to compete in a way that disadvantaged the north of England. The push towards regionalisation in England would start again—it would start in the north—and it is not something that I want to see.

Scotland voting no, if handled in the wrong way, could lead to further regionalisation, damage and break-up in the United Kingdom. I have no objection to powers being given to regions, but I do not want wholesale transfers away from our existing united model, which I support. We resoundingly rejected a regional assembly, but this could open the door to that debate starting again. The people of the north-east do not want a regional assembly, and the people of England do not want an English Parliament—that is not a route that the United Kingdom should go down—but I fear that a no vote, if handled in an improper way, might allow the creation of unfair competition and disadvantage for areas such as the north-east and the north-west, and for constituencies similar to mine, leading us down a path that would do irreparable damage in the long term to the United Kingdom.

I welcome the debate, and we will hear much more on the subject in future. I congratulate the hon. Member for Sedgefield on raising such an important issue. I hope that, whoever is in government and whatever the situation at the time, people in London and in Westminster will appreciate the significance of further devolution to Scotland if it unfairly disadvantages the north-east.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Wharton of Yarm Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Let us examine the NHS in Labour’s hands in Wales. Here are the figures. Is the NHS budget being increased? No, it is being cut by 8% by Labour. The last time the urgent cancer care treatment target was met in Wales was 2008. The last time A and E targets were met was 2009. The Welsh ambulance service has missed its call-out target for the last 10 months. And, of course, there is no cancer drugs fund. That is what you get under Labour: cuts to our NHS and longer waiting lists—and all the problems we saw at the Stafford hospital will be repeated over again.

[James Wharton (Stockton South) (Con)]

Q2. Yesterday, figures showed that this Government had reduced the deficit by a third. Does the Prime Minister agree that to borrow and spend more, which the shadow Chancellor has confirmed will be Labour’s policy in 2015, would risk squandering that progress?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We are operating in very tough times, but we have got the deficit down by a third, there are 1.25 million extra private sector jobs, and we have seen a record creation of new businesses in our country. The differences between the two parties is that we believe in cutting our deficit, whereas it is their official policy to put it up. If they did that, there would be higher interest rates, more businesses going bust and harder times for home owners. That is what Labour offers.

Scotland’s Constitutional Future

Lord Wharton of Yarm Excerpts

Tuesday 10th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Michael Moore]

Nobody here intends to be heavy-handed or to force anything. What we want to do is find agreement that will enable us here at Westminster to ensure that the Scottish Parliament has the powers to conduct the referendum and that it does so in a fair and decisive way. We are starting a consultation period today. I look forward to everybody contributing to it.

[James Wharton (Stockton South) (Con)]

The Secretary of State has indicated that he believes that only those who are on the electoral register in Scotland should get to vote in any referendum. Does that extend to registered overseas voters who remain on the Scottish register? If it does, will he look at the possibility of extending that facility to those Scots who find themselves living not abroad, but elsewhere in the United Kingdom?

[Michael Moore]

As I have said on a number of occasions, we are proposing that the franchise should be that which elects the Scottish Parliament.