Historical Railways Estate

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Monday 5th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am afraid I am not aware of the body the noble Baroness has just referenced. There are all sorts of budgets around. Obviously there is £500 million in the Restoring Your Railway fund and up to £2 billion in terms of cycling and walking. It is important to understand that, where particular railway properties fall into either of these schemes, their ownership can be transferred to the scheme’s promoters and therefore they can be maintained in future.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, in his foreword to the White Paper Great British Railways, the Secretary of State said that

“we now propose … ending the fragmentation of the past and bringing the network under single national leadership.”

Chapter 3 begins:

“Great British Railways will bring together the whole system”.


Can my noble friend confirm that responsibility for the Historical Railways Estate will be taken back from Highways England and given to Great British Railways?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his suggestion, which I note with great interest. However, no decisions have been put to Ministers about a transfer of some or all of the Historical Railways Estate to Great British Railways. There would need to be a power in the rail Bill and, although this might be contemplated, no decision has yet been made on that matter.

Britain’s Railways

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Monday 24th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord raises an interesting point about stations. Stations are a great asset, particularly in local communities, because sometimes they are not just railway stations. Certainly, I would like to see many more of them being developed into integrated transport hubs where we could have buses and active travel interventions as well, so that they connect much more into transport for the local community. Obviously, how station ownership and operation will pan out in the future will be subject to a fair amount of work. For example, some of them may end up being run by local government or local transport authorities, and we will be able to say more on that in the levelling-up White Paper.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

Can my noble friend confirm that the key objectives of privatisation—which could have been called the “Young-Major plan for rail”, had modesty not intervened—will be retained? These objectives are: no monopoly in the train operating industry but new entrants encouraged; the capital costs of the passenger rolling stock and freight rolling stock borne by the private sector, not the public purse; and passenger service contracts being constructed to reward efficiency, quality and passenger growth. None of those characteristics is available under full nationalisation.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Bring back the Young-Major plan for rail greatness is what I say. I can absolutely confirm all those things to my noble friend. We are retaining the original objectives of privatisation to make sure that passenger services are awarded following a fair competition. We had to strip out some of the complexity of those competitions to allow train operators to bid on a simpler basis, and we think we have achieved that. We will open up new opportunities for private sector involvement where we can.

As I have said, the capital cost of passenger and freight rolling stock will be borne by the private sector. There will be a certain element of a guiding mind when it comes to a strategic intervention on the rolling stock, but this will not preclude train operating companies purchasing their own rolling stock. Obviously, we are replacing the franchises with this more commercially sustainable model of a passenger service contract, which will ensure that we get the right amount of innovation into the system and passengers benefit.

Railway Industry Association Report

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Tuesday 18th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I take this opportunity to remind the House that the Green Party is against HS2, a position which I remain a little confused by. The noble Baroness is quite right that now is the opportunity to put our shoulder to the wheel and to electrify our railways as quickly as we can. That is why we will be setting out a rolling programme in the forthcoming RNEP, and why we take great heed of what was written by the Network Rail-led traction decarbonisation network strategy. That is not government policy, but there are some very important conclusions which we are looking at, and we will be putting them in the transport decarbonisation plan.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, the report mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, makes a compelling case for accelerating the electrification programme so that we can hit our carbon commitments, but it says very little about the industry’s capacity to deliver, which historically has been disappointing. Can my noble friend ensure that if the recommendations are accepted, we have the technical skills and know-how to deliver, on budget and on time, and that any reorganisation of Network Rail will not impede progress?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is quite right. Indeed, the Rail Industry Association report in 2019 set out that one of the root causes of the challenges of electrification was the 20-year hiatus that had previously occurred in the electrification projects, which led to a loss of specialist knowledge. But we are looking at the supply side of this to bring forward the rolling programme of electrification; I specifically point my noble friend to the Traction Decarbonisation Network Strategy, which has a lot of information about the supply side. We are confident that, if we have the right programme in place, we can not only use the existing supply-side skills and expertise but grow them for the future.

Transport for London: Financial Settlement

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is quite right: there have been some quite interesting fare increases—or not—from the mayor over recent years. We estimate that over the past four years his fares freeze has cost £640 million, which could otherwise have been spent on capital expenditure. But, as my noble friend knows, transport in London is devolved and it is up to the mayor and TfL to assess the merits of capital projects that they might want to invest in. However, it is absolutely clear that the Mayor of London must set a robust budget, demonstrate that TfL is on a clear path to achieving financial sustainability, and prioritise his capital expenditure. He will have to make difficult choices.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, many of us are old enough to remember renewing our road funds not with the DVLA but with the county council. It was £12 and 10 shillings when I started driving. I see that the Mayor of London has revived this policy as part of the problems of Transport for London, which would also broaden the base for local government taxation. Does my noble friend have a view on the merits of this policy?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend raises a very interesting period of time that unfortunately I do not remember, but it is the case that the Mayor of London has some very interesting ideas as to how he wants vehicle excise duty to be spent. It is one of the proposals in the financial sustainability plan he has prepared, which I have to say does seem to have been drafted with a money-no-object mindset. Noble Lords will know that vehicle excise duty is used for the strategic roads network, which is the motorways and the major A roads, so unless we are going to stop Londoners from using our motorways and buying products that have been brought into London by HGVs travelling on them, I see absolutely no rationale for devolving VED.

Rail Freight: Channel Tunnel

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Wednesday 24th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I would love to have the answers to those questions, but I am afraid that I do not, and I do not have a calculator with me at this moment. However, I will write to the noble Lord with the details he has set out. It is the case that, in January, we were looking at daily HGV traffic flows in the region of around 2,800 vehicles on average and that we are now up into the area of mid-3,000 vehicles. I will write to the noble Lord with the analysis that he would like to see.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, is not one of the barriers referred to in the Question the fact that gauges in the UK restrict the destination of much of the freight traffic coming through the tunnel? What progress is being made with the gauge enhancement programme to make it easier to send more freight through the Channel Tunnel by rail?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

This is a fascinating area and I thank my noble friend for raising it. We are developing a number of loading gauge enhancement projects to extend the strategic freight network of routes to offer the greatest flexibility for carrying intermodal shipping containers on standard wagons. We are working on the Great Western main line between Didcot and Bristol, on the Midland main line between Syston and Trent and, as I have mentioned, we are looking at alternative routes to the Channel Tunnel. Clearances for W10 and W12 will probably offer fairly poor value for money, so further development is more likely to consider W9A, which would allow containers on specialist wagons with lower decks.

Rail Fares: Flexi-season Tickets

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Thursday 4th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am afraid the Government do not accept that. We are undertaking rail reform. As the noble Baroness will know, now is probably not the right time to do it, in the midst of a pandemic, but as the course of the pandemic becomes much clearer, we will continue to work, as we have done for quite a while now, with Keith Williams on his root and branch review. We remain in close contact with him and he fully supports the ERMAs we have put in recently. The noble Baroness also said that the roads are congested. I do not know whether she has been outside recently, but they are not.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, any trial flexi-season ticket system needs government approval before it can start. Can my noble friend say whether she is looking at a national scheme with common rules, to avoid complexity, or whether each individual franchise will develop its own scheme? Will she ensure that any new scheme will be contactless, in order to keep down costs and save time?

Railways: Electrification

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Tuesday 19th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord is completely right that it has been under discussion for a long time—it is very important, and it is a very long-term plan. However, we are informed by the Network Rail-led traction decarbonisation network strategy, which feeds into what the Government are working on at the moment: the transport decarbonisation plan, which will be published shortly.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, given that, as we have just heard, it may be some time before the routes mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, are electrified, what measures can be taken in the meantime by the freight locomotive industry to minimise harmful diesel emissions—for example, particulate filters, selective catalytic reduction or, indeed, cleaner diesel?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Indeed, emissions are not just carbon: particulates play a huge role in poor air quality, and the freight-operating companies are taking active steps to reduce the amount of emissions their locomotives produce. For example, among other interventions the industry has begun using stop-start technologies—rather like we have on cars—on locomotives to reduce emissions when idling. We continue to work with the rail freight industry and the Rail Safety and Standards Board to look at what we can do and what research and development needs to be undertaken to reduce all emissions from rail freight.

National Bus Strategy

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Wednesday 16th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, roadworks have been quite a focus for the Department for Transport over recent months. It is the case that nearly all local authorities operate a permit scheme for undertakers to have access to the road when they want to dig it up, and they have powers to co-ordinate those works and to charge the undertakers when the works are not done in time. Not only that, the department has set up the Street Manager system, which is a digital service that puts all the information about roadworks in one place. It is open data that is available to bus companies, so they can see where roadworks are taking place.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, the first traffic lights in this country were installed outside the Palace of Westminster in 1868, since when the technology has improved; they can now detect an oncoming bus and go green. What more can my noble friend do to promote this capability so that more buses arrive on time and we improve the reliability of this important form of transport?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is quite right that we have come on in leaps and bounds since 1868. In the first instance, many buses have transponders fitted to them, which will communicate with the traffic light controller and can cause the light to change. However, newer technology uses GPS tracking rather than transponders; again, that can communicate with traffic lights, but it can also provide real-time bus information, which can be made available at bus stops.

Railways: Fare Structures

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Tuesday 17th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her advice; I am sure the Treasury is listening. As I said to the noble Lord, Lord Snape, earlier, we are considering plans for rail fares in the future, but we are working very hard on how to modernise our ticketing offer such that rail travel is as affordable as we can possibly make it.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, one of the challenges facing the railways is to spread the morning peak; reduced fares kick in after about 9 am. Would my noble friend consider reductions for journeys that begin before, say, 7 am, to spread the peak earlier as well as later?

Rural Bus Services

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Wednesday 11th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I partially agree with the noble Lord in that it is key for all local services, wherever they are, to be integrated with other modes, be they long-distance coach-type journeys or rail services provided between cities or over shorter distances. Integration is important, so to a certain extent it needs a guiding mind. We will be looking to local authorities to pick up the pen on that and take it forward.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, we all agree that public transport is essential for those who live in rural areas and do not have access to a car. However, does it all have to be provided by buses, which often do not run at the times when people want them, do not go from home to destination and back, and frequently lead to narrow country lanes being blocked by large vehicles? Can the Minister do more to promote demand-responsive, community-based services to complement those provided by the bus?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is right: an empty double-decker bus careening through narrow country lanes simply will not do. One of the solutions that may be appropriate for rural areas is demand-responsive transport. That is why in September 2019 we launched the £20 million Rural Mobility Fund. We asked for expressions of interest and have had 53. I take great heart from that and at the moment we are reviewing those. We probably do not want to launch them now, in the middle of the pandemic, but we hope that will go on to prove what kind of demand-responsive transport works and what does not, and then we will be able to roll it out more broadly.