Water Companies: Pollution

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the decision by Ofwat on 3 October to penalise 11 water companies for failing to meet their targets, including on pollution incidents.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government welcome this robust regulatory response from Ofwat where water companies are underperforming. It provides a great example of strong environmental and economic regulatory frameworks in action. The penalties to these 11 water companies were the result of missed performance commitments on areas such as water supply interruptions, pollution incidents and internal sewer flooding. The Government will continue to work with regulators to hold companies to account on their environmental and other commitments.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister just mentioned that the 11 companies fined by Ofwat missed targets in a number of areas: water supply interruptions, pollution and internal sewer flooding. The problem is that these performance commitments do not set the bar particularly high, which makes it extremely worrying that so many companies are falling short, some by a considerable distance. Does he believe that the current sanction, which sees failing companies having to repay customers a proportion of their bills in future years, is enough to bring about the improvements that we so desperately need? With this in mind, how does he respond to the suggestion by Ofwat’s newly appointed chair, Iain Coucher, that the regulator should be granted powers to debar the directors of egregious water companies?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I take what the noble Baroness says about the level these sanctions are set at. If she thinks that there are areas that could be improved on, we will work with Ofwat to do that. She talks about this as though it is the only area of enforcement. Where water companies have failed to achieve their environmental standards and illegally pumped sewage into rivers, enormous fines have been applied, which have had a dramatic impact on the amounts of dividends that they have been able to award.

Environmental Targets

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Monday 31st October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

No, that is not what we are saying at all. Most of the protections we have are written into law in the Climate Change Act, the Environment Act and many other provisions that no Administration in recent months—of any form—have talked about trying to tamper with. The habitats directive and other measures are very important; we will not be able to hit our 2030 target for no net loss of biodiversity if we were somehow to sweep those away.

So, if we are going to get rid of them, we have got to replace them with something that is meaningful and bespoke for these islands, and that cannot be done overnight. The Government want to hit our target for 2030, our 30by30 target and many other measures that are written into the Environment Act. The directives we have transposed into UK law have got to be dealt with carefully and in a way that results in no net loss of benefit for the environment, preferably improving it.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I remind your Lordships’ House that the Environment Bill was introduced in July 2018. However, lengthy delays caused not just by consultation responses but by Conservative Party divisions meant that it became law only last November. During its passage, concerns were raised about the lack of targets, and the then Minister assured your Lordships’ House that they would appear by today’s deadline. My noble friend Lady Jones referred to the repeated missed deadlines, and the Government have again failed to deliver. The future of our environment is one of the most pressing issues we face, so why have the Government again broken their promise?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We will be publishing these targets and they will be very much linked to the areas we consulted on: halting the decline of species by 2030; reducing exposure to PM2.5, benefiting health, as the noble Baroness knows it will; helping restore water bodies to their natural state; increasing woodland cover; protecting marine habitats; and setting a clear direction of travel in reducing the amount of waste per person. These are the measures we want to see implemented, and they will be rigorous targets we can meet, not just for this Government but for future Governments. In line with the Act, they will mean that this country is respected for its protection of the environment above all others.

Environment Act 2021: Targets

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Tuesday 25th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I have a graph in my office of “30x30”. We have to hit this target, otherwise we will have no credibility in international fora when we try to encourage countries right across the world to adopt our “30x30” ambitions; for example, in the COP in Montreal in December. We need to set out quite clearly how we are going to do this. The NGOs are a little pessimistic—I think the figures are higher than that—but we can achieve it. I shall have meetings with officials and other Ministers on this issue in the next few days. We will be turning up the heat to make sure that we not only hit but explain how we are going to hit that target.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, despite compelling evidence of the harm caused by toxic air, the Government repeatedly resisted attempts to put World Health Organization targets into the Environment Act. As there is no sign of those targets, does the Minister understand why so many people doubt the Government’s commitment to clean air? What assessment have they made of the costs to human health of their inaction over recent years, and when a target is eventually enshrined in law, will it be consistent with WHO guidelines?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

One area that we consulted on as part of the huge consultation on our targets was reducing exposure to PM2.5, thereby benefiting public health through decreasing cases of heart disease and cancer. There were very moving speeches in a recent debate here about the impact that this can have on children. There are certain hotspots in what local authorities need to do. This is very much part of our environmental targets and one of our commitments given not only at the Dispatch Box during the progress of the Environment Bill but in other forms as well.

Growth Plan 2022

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Tuesday 25th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The Government have to be absolutely clear about this because it is hard-wired into legislation, whether it is our net-zero commitments under the Climate Change Act or our protections under the Environment Act—world-leading legislation that will put into law such things as biodiversity net gain and the ambitions in the 25-year environment plan. This leaves precious little room for any Government of any persuasion to be foolish enough to damage our environment, which would mean that we could not achieve those objectives, which are written in law.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned the environmental land management schemes. The Secretary of State—or is he now the previous Secretary of State?—had to deny plans that the new schemes were going to be ditched, but of course, that was before the Conservative Party crashed the economy. So can the Minister guarantee not only that ELMS is here to stay and that incentives will remain at current levels, but that our farmers will be protected from any trade agreements that would undermine our high standards?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

Environmental land management schemes are here to stay. They will continue to be rolled out as we taper out area payments, which saw 55% of the money going to just 10% of the largest farmers. That was very unfair for small farmers. We will be helping smaller farmers to get a fairer share of the cake and we will continue to make sure that our trade agreements, in accordance with what has already been said, will not see a diminution of our animal welfare or environmental standards.

Nitrate-free Bacon and Ham

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Tuesday 18th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Lord is a genius for how he wove that in. He is absolutely on the same page as the Government, who are doing all we can to help household income across the board. Compared with previous decades, food has been a relatively small element of household expenditure, but it is nevertheless significant and it has been affected by inflation. But just concentrating on food is not enough; we need to look at the whole area of household expenditure, which of course includes energy and other elements.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, while we must not cause alarm by overstating any risks posed by nitrates and nitrites in bacon and other cured meats, we cannot deny that a growing body of evidence links these chemicals to various illnesses. Although we may not have an appetite for a full ban, many other countries are taking clear steps to limit the use of nitrates and nitrites in pork products. So does the Minister see any future reputational risks for UK products if other countries move forward and adopt more stringent measures and we do not?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We work very closely with the European agency that does this. It is quite wrong for Ministers to make sweeping decisions on this; it has to be on the basis of evidence. The Food Standards Agency is the lead on this, and it has given Ministers clear information. The 2015 IARC report stated that how cancer risk is increased by processed meat consumption is “not yet fully understood”. How processed meat is cooked—for example, the temperature—and some natural components in the meat itself could be contributing factors. As the noble Baroness said, other foods naturally have large amounts of nitrates: chard and broccoli are but two.

Horticultural Sector

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Thursday 13th October 2022 Grand Committee

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, like other noble Lords, I start by thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, for bringing this debate to the Moses Room and for her introduction, which was, as usual, excellent.

As we have heard, the UK horticulture industry is worth more than £5 billion annually but has been facing serious workforce challenges, particularly in relation to seasonal labour shortages and the skills gap. A large proportion of labour has historically been supplied by the European Union. This was mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell. The House of Commons Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee said that EU workers accounted for as much 99% of seasonal labour in the edible horticultural sector, which is why we are seeing so many problems. This spring, this led to record levels of seasonal worker shortages with businesses reporting shortages as high as 40%. This has the unfortunate consequence of fruit, vegetables, plants and flowers being unpicked. That represents a significant financial loss to UK producers, a reduction in our domestic production and poorer choice for UK consumers. If the industry is to remain competitive and productive, we must look at skills development and how we can encourage more people to follow a career in horticulture. The noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, talked about the scope for development that we have, so what practical support will the Government give the industry to support these aims? We are aware that the Government have previously announced their aim to reduce the sector’s reliance on foreign labour and to attract new domestic workers.

In March, Victoria Prentis, the Minister in the other place, stated that

“the Government has been clear that more must be done to attract UK workers through offering training, career options, wage increases”

and that Defra had been working with the DWP to

“raise awareness of career opportunities … among UK workers.”

Can the Minister provide an update on progress in this area? Have the Government carried out an audit or analysis of the sector to identify clearly how it can move towards growing more and importing less?

The Minister in the other place also talked about the need for investment in increased automation technology. We have heard a lot about this from noble Lords. Earlier this week, the Environment Secretary announced plans to boost homegrown fruit and vegetable production and drive the growth of high-tech horticulture. This is very welcome; the noble Lord, Lord Curry, talked about the need for increasing production and the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, talked about issues around increased imports. The NFU’s figures have shown that we are only 18% self-sufficient in fruit, 55% in fresh vegetables and 71% in potatoes.

However, the Government’s review also drew attention to the difficulties the industry faces in workforce recruitment. It stated:

“A long-term Seasonal Workers Scheme would help to stabilise workforce pressures in the sector, helping growers to better evaluate their labour needs over time and incentivising long-term capital investments in automation technology. While a new Seasonal Workers Visa Route has been announced for 2022 to 2024, the length of any future schemes should ideally match the period preceding the feasible mass-adoption of automation technology.”


The NFU clearly spelled out in its helpful briefing the difficulties facing the industry. With increasing competition for UK workers right across the economy, the temporary nature of farm roles and their rural locations make it very difficult to attract enough domestic workers to fill the ever-growing seasonal worker gap. The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, mentioned that the Prime Minister has said she supports expanding the seasonal workers scheme. I would be really interested to hear from the Minister what action is happening on these aims. What are the Government doing or planning to do to make a difference in this area?

Moving to the role of horticulture in protecting the environment, the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, talked about private gardens and green spaces. I absolutely support her comments on this area. The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, talked about the importance of food-growing in gardens, how we used to do more of it as a nation and the access to land that will be needed if we are genuinely going to grow more. The Horticultural Trades Association has said that

“policy-makers are under-estimating the significant role that the UK horticulture sector can play in tackling climate change and achieving Net Zero.”

Groups within the sector have encouraged the Government to work with them on this. Can the Minister confirm what the Government are doing and what their commitment is in this area?

We have heard about non-native invasive species. Our trees and landscapes are under unprecedented threats from both new and established pests. Whenever I go back to Cumbria, I could honestly weep when I see the state of the ash trees. So many are dead and dying. We must look at how we can not only improve our biosecurity for the future but have a co-ordinated approach from government, industry and horticultural scientific research and development to tackle these threats and look at how we can deliver innovative and sustainable solutions where we have these terrible problems.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, mentioned Buglife’s excellent briefing on invasive non-native species, so I will not go into further detail, but I stress that it talked about serious concerns around flatworms, ants and slugs coming in on plants. It would be good to see what the Government’s plans are to improve our biosecurity and phytosecurity in these areas.

A number of noble Lords mentioned peat. We know that healthy peatland can sequester carbon and support wildlife habitats, but we also know that it has become a source of greenhouse gases because much of it is in such poor condition. Along with the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, I urge the Government to act and bring in a ban on peat sales and peat in compost. We also know that two-thirds of the peat currently sold in the UK is imported, so a ban must include imports into this country because they damage global environments. In addition, a ban on horticultural peat sales would bolster the growth of new markets and supply chains in the UK and could create development opportunities in this country. Does the Minister agree that we have a fantastic opportunity to develop a world-leading sustainable horticultural sector in this area?

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, in particular, for saying “paludiculture”. It was great to get the briefing on it, but I had never heard of it, so I was not quite sure how to pronounce it. Again, that is a very interesting and innovative technique. Was the Minister aware of it previously—I am sure that he knew more about it than I did—and it is something the Government could support? This has been a very interesting debate, and I look forward to the Minister’s response.

Climate Change and Biodiversity: Food Security

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, Her Majesty the Queen and her family are very much in our thoughts at the moment. I am sure that across the House we are all deeply concerned.

This is an important debate. I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, on bringing it to the House and on her comprehensive introduction, which was often quite sobering. I also congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Willis of Summertown, on her maiden speech, which was excellent. There are few maiden speeches that I have learned quite so much from. It was very interesting and I look forward to her future contributions in the House.

On the debate, the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization has warned that global loss of biodiversity is threatening the security of the world’s food supplies and the livelihoods of millions of people. Land use changes, pollution, overexploitation of resources and climate change were listed as the biggest drivers of this biodiversity loss. My noble friend Lord Stansgate said that biodiversity loss and climate change were two sides of the same coin, and I absolutely agree with him.

Agriculture and its related industries depend hugely on the climate. Crop production and livestock are the largest global food industries and are highly sensitive to climate change. Increases in temperature, changes in precipitation patterns and changes in storm frequency and severity all can significantly affect food production, and we have also heard about the added impact of the war in Ukraine. So it is clear that, in response to these huge challenges, agricultural production and how we manage our food security have to change.

Over the past 20 years, most countries have industrialised their animal agriculture practices, and there is an increasing amount of trade in animal products globally. The noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, talked about the impact of industrialisation. Yet, insufficient steps are being taken to address this issue and curb practices which drive greenhouse gas emissions, deforestation and biodiversity loss. Farm animal waste and other aspects of the animal agriculture sector generate greenhouse gas emissions, as we have heard during this debate. The national food strategy considered the impact of animal agriculture, so I ask the Minister whether the Government have looked at how to address this further.

The IPCC has stated that climate change is already directly affecting food security and nutrition, which it defines as

“when all people, at all times, have physical, social, and economic access to sufficient, safe, and nutritious food that meets their dietary needs and food preferences for an active and healthy life.”

We need to look at how we can make sure that we provide this, not just for people in our country but right across the globe.

The RSPB says that the role that agriculture, land use change, pollution, unsustainable fishing practices, climate change and development have played in the significant loss of biodiversity in the UK is now widely accepted.

The NFU rightly recognises that climate change is arguably the greatest challenge facing the world and that British farmers are in the front line of increasingly frequent weather extremes. July this year was the driest in England since 1911, and before that were the driest nine months since 1975-76. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Manchester talked about the clear signs of climate change right across the world this year, and the noble Baroness, Lady Mobarik, talked movingly about the impact on Pakistan.

Farmers are clearly concerned about the future and need support in protecting, maintaining and enhancing the environment. The NFU also agrees that optimal environmental outcomes should seek to improve nature, enhance air and water quality and build soil health, and has set itself the challenge of agriculture reaching net zero by 2040 in the UK. But the Government have a crucial role to play in this. Food security must be placed at the heart of wider government policies, with a reporting system and clear oversight to ensure that we do not allow our domestic food production to diminish.

CAFOD provided a helpful briefing in which it reminded us that the UK Government made welcome commitments at COP 26 on food and agriculture under the Glasgow Leaders’ Declaration on Forests and Land Use. Can the Minister give an update on progress towards delivering on these commitments? We need clear indicators for reporting on new policies and laws, as well as on reduced rates of deforestation, increased land titles for indigenous peoples and local communities, finance for agroecology and actions to repurpose agricultural subsidies.

In their 2021 Food Security Report, the Government described food security as a “complex and multi-faceted issue”. At the same time, it identified risks to the UK’s long-term food security. It said that climate change, climate variability and biodiversity loss all threatened the long-term security of global food production, and concluded that climate change and biodiversity loss were among the biggest medium to long-term risks to UK domestic food production, alongside other factors such as soil degradation and water quality. The noble Earl, Lord Caithness, mentioned the soil health action plan, and I look forward to the Minister’s update on where it is.

As we have heard, the Government also commissioned the Dasgupta review, which looked at the risk to the world economy of the loss of biodiversity, particularly to food security. It also said that biodiversity loss was damaging the health of the soil needed to grow the food. The noble Baroness mentioned this in her maiden speech, and it is absolutely critical.

Defra’s outcome delivery plan for 2021-22 reaffirmed the Government’s “vision and mission” for the environment. It said:

“We are here to make our air purer, our water cleaner, our land greener and our food more sustainable. Our mission is to restore and enhance the environment for the next generation, leaving it in a better state than we found it.”


Further, the government’s agriculture transition plan said:

“By 2028, we want to see … a renewed agricultural sector, producing healthy food for consumption at home and abroad, where farms can be profitable and economically sustainable without subsidy”


and with

“farming and the countryside contributing significantly to environmental goals including addressing climate change.”

All the work I have just mentioned is excellent—there are lots of fine words here—but we need an integrated approach and real action. The NAO, the Environment Audit Committee and the Treasury have all highlighted the need for Defra to take a lead role in demonstrating the value of more integrated approaches to environmental policy-making, and there are opportunities to develop these approaches. In particular, the National Food Strategy, about which we have heard, and the enabling provisions in the Agriculture Act provide the chance to consider food use, land use and environmental systems all together, so that we deliver for the environment as well as for the economy and society.

The noble Earl, Lord Caithness, mentioned the land use strategy, and my noble friend Lady Young of Old Scone spoke with her usual passion about the importance of land use. Why are all these opportunities not being fully grasped and acted on? There is plenty of strategy and policy coming out of government, but to be successful, we need effective delivery. Little is achieved by strategy and policy alone. The resilience and sustainability of our farming system are absolutely critical. The noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, mentioned that the UK has huge potential to lead the world on this, so let us get on with it, act on that potential and deliver what we need.

We know that any farming system we set up, and any new arrangements that come out of the ELMS agreement, must not be at the expense of tackling climate change and mitigating biodiversity loss. Farmers will need proper government support to achieve this while maintaining food production. My noble friend Lady Jones of Whitchurch mentioned the lack of a coherent plan in Defra. The noble Lord, Lord Oates, said that we know what we need to do. My question to the Minister, who I am sure has listened very carefully to the debate, as he always does, is: what plans do the new Government have to deliver on all their fine words?

Sewage Pollution

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Wednesday 7th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, the former Secretary of State talked about the importance of monitoring, but simply knowing about this filthy practice will not stop it. Recent figures show a massive increase in the amount of sewage dumped by water companies, with the Environment Agency data suggesting a stunning 2,553% increase over just five years. This week, we have seen storms and heavy rainfall across the country, with that rain expected to overload our sewage system and force releases into coastal bathing areas and rivers.

If this is a government priority, why is it taking so long to sort out and when will this practice be banned? Can we expect any announcements from the new Secretary of State and, if so, when?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

I understand that my right honourable friend, the new Secretary of State, Ranil Jayawardena, has met representatives of water companies today, on his first day in office. If it was not today, it will be tomorrow. It is an absolute priority.

The noble Baroness talks about monitoring as though it is part of the solution. She is absolutely right—it is—but, as a Water Minister more than a decade ago, I was stunned to realise that we knew about only 5% of storm overflow. That is now 90% and, by the end of this year, we will know about every one and they will be able to be monitored in real-time by individuals, NGOs, politicians and local residents, which will make a huge difference.

We have published our storm overflows plan, which has ambitions to radically reduce storm overflows. She asked when that will be ended. It cannot be ended. Our sewage system has been created around storm overflows since Victorian times, but it can be dramatically reduced and its impact nullified in many areas.

Water Companies: Environmental Pollution

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Tuesday 19th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. She makes very good points. The independent Sentencing Council review will, I hope, tackle her first point. I entirely agree about the problems imposed on customers and us all by wet wipes. We have announced a call for evidence which will explore a possible ban on single-use wet wipes containing plastic. I am very happy to work with Fleur Anderson on that.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government’s response to the Environment Agency’s report said:

“We are the first government to set out our expectation”—


expectation—

“that water companies must take steps to significantly reduce storm overflows and earlier this year we consulted—

they consulted—

“on a comprehensive plan.”

They also said:

“We will not tolerate this behaviour and we will take robust action if we don’t see urgent improvements.”


Is now not the time to take robust action? The situation is getting worse, and the public have had enough. Will the Government support the Environment Agency’s proposals?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I would hate any noble Lord to be under the impression that our attempts to resolve this problem start here. We have record levels of investment in our water infrastructure. Between 2020 and 2025, £3.1 billion is being invested by water companies specifically in storm overflow improvements. We have set out target dates by which we want to see these improvements, and we will report by 1 September on precisely how they are going to be delivered.

Sewage Disposal in Rivers and Coastal Waters

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Thursday 7th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, this has been a really good debate. I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Oates, on securing it. I also join him in paying tribute to Feargal Sharkey, who has done so much to raise this issue. I also pay tribute to Lord Chidgey, who is greatly missed in this House.

While we have been enjoying rather dry weather recently, and water companies’ attention may be on supply issues, that should not diminish the importance of continuing to talk about how we deal with challenges around storm overflows and other forms of sewage release. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans, who is not in his place, gave an appalling example of sewage releases into the River Ver. That kind of behaviour from water companies is not acceptable.

How we treat sewage was also brought into focus recently by the extremely worrying news that traces of the polio virus were found in an east London sewage works. Any release of sewage has potential public health implications, but this incident is particularly concerning. The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, and others, talked about antibiotics being in water and the serious health concerns around that. As she said, this is about having good, clean, healthy water.

I want to think about the progress on tackling this issue. It was four years ago this month that the Environment Bill was first announced. This weekend will mark eight months since the final version of that legislation achieved Royal Assent. As other noble Lords have mentioned, during the passage of the Environment Act, concerned Members of Parliament and Peers of all political persuasions pushed the Government to take clear, decisive action to reduce sewage pollution and improve the UK’s water quality. This is a cross-party issue.

I again pay tribute, as others have done, to the noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, for his persistence during the Environment Bill, and to other colleagues who supported him. It was due to that that the Government made concessions in this area. As the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, said, it was good to see that changes were made to that legislation to improve what is happening with sewage discharges and our water quality, but Ministers’ ambition was not high enough—not for us or for a number of other organisations. We have been told by Ministers that eradicating storm overflows entirely—this is one of the things that the noble Duke got so frustrated about—was simply too expensive and that any further attempts to force the water companies’ hands would produce little by way of result but would ultimately penalise bill payers. Of course that is not what we want to see.

While we clearly do not deny the right of private companies to make a profit, it is hard for water companies to plead poverty. The noble Lord, Lord Oates, mentioned the salaries and bonuses given to people at the top of water companies, and my noble friend Lord Sikka talked about the huge sums of money involved. When we think about the huge sums of money going to people heading water companies, we also need to think about what is happening with dividends to shareholders. The University of Greenwich has done some analysis which showed that between 2010 and 2021 dividends worth £19 billion were paid to shareholders in water and sewerage businesses operating in England. Is that the best use of water companies’ money?

At the same time, if you compare current investment in wastewater management with the level seen in the 1990s, all but two companies are spending less, with the net impact being a reduction of £526 million every single year. The same is true of capital investment in long-term solutions. The noble Lord, Lord Stoneham, said that it is important that we have long-term solutions and I agree. Companies were investing £1 billion a year less in 2021, compared to 1991. Perhaps we could accept these trends if the underlying problems were being resolved but the sheer volume of dumped sewage—as we have heard, there were more than 370,000 incidents last year—is almost beyond comprehension and, as the noble Lord, Lord Oates, said, every water company does this.

The current system is not working so we have to consider why. The answer seems to lie in what can be described only as the half-hearted efforts of Defra Ministers and key figures at Ofwat and the Environment Agency. I am sure the Minister would not include himself in that, so can he explain why it is taking so long to sort this out properly? Despite the Environment Bill dating back to 2018, it was not until 31 March this year that Defra launched a consultation on the subject and now, as others have said, we must wait until 2050 to reach an 80% reduction in discharges.

My noble friend Lord Campbell-Savours talked about the impact of pollution on rivers and lakes in Cumbria, which I have also seen first-hand. I thoroughly support him when he says, “For goodness’ sake, can’t the Government speed up on this?” I draw attention to the remarks of the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, about flooding and the impact of new developments. This is important. We have to work across government. Planning is an integral part of solving this problem. The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, talked about SUDS and foul sewers and connections to new developments. What work is being done across government to look at exactly how this can be solved, particularly around planning and new developments?

Farming has been mentioned by a number of noble Lords; the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, in particular made some pertinent points around this. I would be interested to hear the Minister report on what work is being done with farmers and the Environment Agency to reduce river pollution on farms.

However, with the current events in Westminster, I suspect that tackling sewage pollution is not the Government’s number one priority—although there is clearly a bit of a clean-up taking place at the moment. Whoever ends up running the country needs to get a grip on these issues because there are huge costs not only to local communities but to our wildlife and increasingly fragile natural environment.

This debate has provided an important opportunity to take stock. I will listen carefully to the Minister’s response but he should perhaps think about taking forward the suggestion from the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, that this issue should also be debated in the autumn. Then might be a good time to look at whether any of the promised progress has been made—because progress is what we need.