G20

Viscount Stansgate Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness in her wisdom will know, concluding a war and bringing warring parties together is a very difficult and delicate matter, not all of which can be conducted in public. China certainly has a potentially important diplomatic role, and it has influence. Obviously, we will use our diplomatic influence with China and in other places to lead it in a direction that would help to secure peace. It was positive that the G20, including China, made the very clear declaration that nuclear war—and the threat of nuclear war—is absolutely inadmissible. That is a long way from where the noble Baroness wishes to get, but I assure her that we will continue to engage with all parties, including President Macron, in efforts to secure an end to this terrible conflict. In the interim, we will be unstinting in our support for Ukraine.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. Further to his answer to my noble friend, I say that summits are of course tremendously important, because you meet people—and that is particularly important for a Prime Minister who is new on the international scene. Yet, as I understand it, an unfortunate casualty of the incident involving the missile in Poland seems to have been a planned meeting between the Prime Minister and Xi Jinping that was not able to take place. Can the Minister confirm if that is the case? If it is, what arrangements might the UK be making to bring about a meeting between the Prime Minister and the President of China? After all, we are both members of the Security Council, and it is just as important for our Prime Minister to meet President Xi Jinping as it is for him to have met President Biden.

[Lord True (Con)]

The noble Viscount makes a fair point. It is a fact, as is attested, that the G20 summit was interrupted by the unfortunate events in Poland. Certainly, both President Xi and the Prime Minister were present at the discussions. The reality is that—as was implicit in what the noble Viscount said—none of the global challenges that faces us, whether the global economy, the impact of war in Ukraine on food and energy security that the noble Lord, Lord Stoneham, reminded us of, climate change or global health can be addressed without co-ordinated action by all the world’s major economies, which include China. The noble Viscount is quite right to say that we are both permanent members of the UN Security Council; we need a frank and constructive relationship and we will go forward in that way. There has to be frankness about China’s failures, as well as encouragement about China’s positive impact.

Arrangement of Business

Viscount Stansgate Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Courtown (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Lord Privy Seal for his comments. I want to take this opportunity to briefly set out the approach to considering the Counsellors of State Bill, following its introduction today. Second Reading will take place next Monday, on 21 November. Noble Lords can now sign up to speak on the Government Whips’ Office website; the speakers’ list will close at 4 pm this Friday. Committee and all other remaining stages will be taken on Wednesday 23 November. Once the Bill is published later today, Members will be able to table amendments for Committee. The deadline for the Marshalled List will be 30 minutes after the conclusion of Second Reading on Monday 21 November. Any amendments should be tabled in the usual way with the Public Bill Office. The Government Whips’ Office and the Public Bill Office can offer further advice.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the King for his Message yesterday and for his recognition of public interest and concern in the matter raised by the Deputy Chief Whip. In view of the expeditious way in which the King has suggested a solution to the question that arises, can the noble Earl confirm that the arrangements for this Bill, here and in another place, will be conducted with such equal expeditiousness that the Bill can reach the statute book in good time to be of practical use to the monarch?

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, can I ask a question? I understand that it would have been technically correct to have a debate after the introduction of the Motion for an humble Address at the start of business. I think the Leader of the House has confirmed that, but I understand why and accept that it is appropriate to discuss it under the business of the House. What I am not clear about is when the Motion which was passed earlier says

“provide such measures as may appear necessary or expedient for securing the purpose set out by His Majesty”.

The Deputy Chief Whip has indicated what is to happen to the Bill of which we have just had a First Reading. Is that the only measure that will be necessary, since it refers to “such measures”, plural? Can we have an indication about any other legislation, including statutory instruments? I mean primary or secondary legislation.

My second point is in relation to the people who can become Counsellors of State. The Motion says:

“including Her Royal Highness the Princess Royal and His Royal Highness the Earl of Wessex”.

Could any other member of the Royal Family be added to that? What would be the procedure for adding any other member of the Royal Family and would it come before this or the other House in anyway whatever, or could it be decided summarily by the Royal Family or anyone else? It is important that we know how anyone else might be added.

Regency Act 1937

Viscount Stansgate Excerpts

Monday 24th October 2022 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Viscount Stansgate]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have, if any, to amend the Regency Act 1937.

[The Lord Privy Seal (Lord True) (Con)]

My Lords, the Regency Act sets out the arrangements by which a regency is triggered, as well as provisions for the appointment of Counsellors of State. On occasion, the Regency Act 1937 has been amended so that its provisions effectively support the sovereign in the discharge of their duties and ensure the resilience of our constitutional arrangements. The Government will continue to consider their legislative programme for the remainder of the Session.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Leader of the House for that reply. The House knows that the Regency Act is still very relevant: it is the only reason why it was possible to open the current Session of this Parliament. Indeed, when you look at the final year of Her late Majesty’s reign, there were elements of a regency about it. Does the Minister not think it time to approach the King to discuss the potential amendment of this Act, and in particular Clause 6, which at the moment defines regents in relation to their line of succession to the Crown? Otherwise, are the Government happy to continue with a situation where the counsels of state and regency powers may be exercised by the Duke of York or the Duke of Sussex, one of whom has left public life and the other of whom has left the country? Is it not time for the Government to approach the King to see whether a sensible amendment can be made to this Act?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for the Question but he will of course understand that I will not discuss any private conversations with His Majesty or with the Royal Household. His Majesty King George VI set out in his gracious message to Parliament that there can be a need

“to consider contingencies which may hereafter arise, and to make such provision as will, in any event, secure the exercise of the Royal Authority.”—[Official Report, Commons, 26/1/37; col. 766.]

In that spirit, the Government will always consider what arrangements are needed to ensure resilience in our constitutional arrangements, and in the past we have seen that the point of accession has proved a useful opportunity to consider the arrangements in place.

Sue Gray Report

Viscount Stansgate Excerpts

Wednesday 25th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

My noble friend is absolutely right, and I had the privilege to serve under Theresa May when she was Prime Minister.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness the Leader of the House for repeating the Statement, which cannot have been a very pleasant thing to do. The House knows that the Committee on Standards in another place will in due course reach a view on whether the Prime Minister misled the House. I would only ask the noble Baroness whether she thinks that noble Lords on the Government Benches can be proud of the Government in this matter and the behaviour of the Prime Minister.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

I think I have made it clear that none of us is proud of what happened and what has been outlined in the report, and that is why the Prime Minister has made a full and unreserved apology.

Easter Recess: Government Update

Viscount Stansgate Excerpts

Monday 25th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, I am not surprised that the Leader of the House did not repeat the Statement orally: who would want to repeat such a Statement? I make no comment on the fact that Covid regulations were broken, because we know that the Privileges Committee in another place will reach a view on this and we will discover in the autumn what its judgment is and what will follow accordingly.

I shall raise one point about Ukraine, because the Prime Minister said in the course of his Statement that

“our long-term goal must be to strengthen and fortify Ukraine to the point where Russia will never dare to invade again.”—[Official Report, Commons, 19/4/22; col. 49.]

Other Members in the Chamber tonight were present at a meeting earlier today of the Joint Committee on the National Security Strategy, in which very interesting evidence was given to us about the current situation of a war that has lasted longer than anyone probably thought it would. What kind of condition Ukraine will be in at the end of hostilities is by no means clear. I put it to the Leader of the House that it would be very helpful if the Government could find time, in government time in the next Session, to explore the important issues that are already beginning to be raised, such as: what are the West’s war aims, to put it bluntly, in the current situation? I very much hope that the Government will see to it that we have such a debate in the next Session.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Viscount and will make a couple of broader comments. There will be a NATO summit in June, at which NATO will agree a new strategic concept to set the direction of the alliance for the next decade and long-term changes to our deterrence and defence posture in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. There is action at that level looking towards the future.

The noble Viscount will be aware that the international community has committed to widening its package of military support for Ukraine and exploring new ways of sustaining the Ukrainian armed forces over the longer term. I can reassure him that many conversations are going on internationally, and with President Zelensky and his Administration, to make sure we all come together and work to help rebuild Ukraine and provide it with the support it wants and is asking for. We are very cognisant of wanting to make sure we deliver what it needs at each given point. We hope that military hostilities will finish, but focus is on that element and the support we can provide there at the moment. However, we will of course move to reconstruction and helping ensure that Ukraine can get back on its feet as quickly as possible following—we hope—the end of hostilities.

Elections Bill

Viscount Stansgate Excerpts

Lords Hansard - Part 2 & Committee stage
Monday 28th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, I support the amendments tabled by my noble friend Lady Hayman.

In view of the lateness of the hour, the Committee will not welcome my repeating the arguments that have already been made, but the noble Lord, Lord Butler, correctly identifies the qualities which are needed for what we all want: an electoral process that has integrity. Whatever our differences around the Chamber, none of us would want to live in a world where you can, to put it bluntly, buy an election. The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, referred to the United States. In its constitution, under the definition of “free speech”, people can spend as much money as they like in furtherance of their own beliefs, which is why billionaires can buy their way into public office. We do not want that system here.

Amendment 212C has not been moved yet, but I want to refer to it because it seeks to make it an offence for anyone who

“makes false statements about the integrity of the electoral process.”

I would call that the Donald J Trump amendment, because I cannot think of a single person in history who has made more false statements about the integrity of any political process than the former President of the United States. However superficially attractive Amendment 212C may be, the better safeguard to protect the integrity of our system is that outlined by the noble Lord, Lord Butler.

[Lord Stunell (LD)]

My Lords, I think that I am now the 11th Peer to tell the Minister that the legislation is not strong enough when it comes to protecting our elections from the financial bigwigs. Indeed, there was a report from the Committee on Standards in Public Life last July. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord True, is back with us for the next stage of this Bill, but we have had some discussions with him about how many of those recommendations in last year’s report the Government believe that they have incorporated in this Bill. He has been a little bit coy about that; I might perhaps try to tempt the noble Baroness or the noble Earl to try a little harder on which of the 47 recommendations in last July’s report by the Committee on Standards in Public Life the Government believe that they have incorporated in this Bill, and which ones they are positively rejecting.

However, I want to speak about a preceding report from the Committee on Standards in Public Life in 2011. I thought that maybe if it had a 10-year run-in, there might be a better chance that we would achieve success in this Bill from some of its recommendations. Noble Lords will know that I am a member of CSPL, but I certainly was not in 2011—I was fulfilling a different role then. That report reviewed the case for having any kind of financial limits on elections. The top risk is the risk of capture of a political party by donors, capture of its policy, its practice and its personnel. Regarding policy, some of us have been frustrated for a long time by the inability of successive Governments to get to grips with tax havens around the world. I am sure that it is completely unconnected that a number of donors live in tax havens, but it could be something which the public would be suspicious about, even if we are far too knowing to believe that a party might be influenced by that.

What about the difficulty in bringing offshore banking onshore? Could that have anything to do with where donors are starting from and where they are banking? What about getting a beneficial ownership register of all companies and making Companies House work properly? Again, we find very little progress, which is very much in the interests of people who make big donations to political parties.

So policy can be affected, perhaps by slowing it down or perhaps by driving it slowly into the sand. Some of us think that this Bill is a victim of that, with so many proposals not grasped but avoided. My noble friend Lord Clement-Jones gave some powerful evidence about the way in which there has been a failure, in this Bill, to confront electronic campaigning, as has been recommended to the Government by many bodies and persons.

There is a risk of capture of policy and of practice, and that is in how government acts and what happens. I point to the free market for high-end property purchasing in London, which has suddenly come to a grinding halt, at least as far as some purchasers are concerned. Obviously, it serves the economy of the UK fine to sell hugely overpriced houses and leave them empty, while various dictators in the former Soviet Union sit on their extracted wealth, but it is not all about foreign donors.

I bring to your Lordships another situation where government practice has been distorted by motives that are not necessarily in the best interests of public service. I refer to the company PPE Medpro, reported in the Guardian this morning as having secured a contract for the supply of 25 million sterilised surgical gowns during the pandemic. Those gowns were bought by PPE Medpro for £46 million and sold to the Government for £122 million. In this case, the money is going in the opposite direction to the one we have been talking about for most of this group of amendments. According to the Guardian report, it turns out that those sterilised surgical gowns were, in fact, unsterilised; they were not double-wrapped and they a had false or misleading BSI test number on them. I understand the Department of Health is trying to get its money back, but the mindset that led to that fiasco unfolding is part of the capture, by big donors and big-donor thinking, of a political party.

Then there is personnel—policy, practice and personnel. It is almost embarrassing to say it, but recommendation 19 of the 2011 report of the Committee on Standards in Public Life was that there should be full publication of the criteria for political appointments to the House of Lords. I plead guilty as a political appointment to the House of Lords, as probably should a number of other noble Lords here, but it makes the point that there is an unhealthy connection between money, donations and preferment. It is not simply the House of Lords that is in scope.

Amendment 212DA in my name repeats two of the recommendations from that 2011 CSPL report. In fact, the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, quoted from it but, for the purposes of time, left out some words beyond the end of that quote. Recommendation 1 states that there should be a limit of £10,000, which is the figure I have included in this amendment. There should be a democracy of donors, as was spelled out by the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett.

Recommendation 6 of that report figures in the second part of my amendment, in that there should be a reduction in national election spending limits of 15%. That was from the CSPL in 2011; the election spending limits had been in place for five years, at that time, and the committee thought they should be reduced by 15%. Fair enough—they have not been increased, but it has now been proposed that they should be increased by over 60%. Far from the 15% reduction that the CSPL thought was sensible 10 years ago, the Government now propose that they are increased by 60%.

I would put in a case for CSPL’s proposals and recommendations and therefore for my amendment. I also strongly support the other amendments that have been put forward. Perhaps the most powerful—not to decry any of the others—is what I have chosen to call the Rooker-Butler amendment, Amendment 212G, which should put the wind up every political party if it comes into force. It proposes that there should be a “risk assessment” for all donations over £7,500. It seems to me that, as a basis for proceeding further, it can hardly be beaten. But I cannot leave out the amendment of my noble friend Lord Wallace and the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, that would capture “unincorporated associations” as well—this is recommendation 10 of the Committee on Standards in Public Life’s report of 2011.

I finish by simply saying that the Government may or not be ready to take on the recommendations of the Committee on Standards in Public Life’s report from last year, but, for goodness’ sake, will they please agree to take on those that it made 10 years ago and that have still not been implemented?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I do not know, but what I can say is that it is a continuing process, as I have said. We will monitor any future impacts, and I will get a fuller answer for the noble Lord.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

Before the Minister completes her remarks, her argument is that Amendment 206 is not necessary because the Government will do it anyway, while in respect of Amendment 205 she has indicated that the Government are minded to consider the question of consolidating electoral law but gives no idea of the timescale on which they might undertake that. Is that correct?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

No, I did not say that we were minded to consolidate at all. I go back to what I said: the Government’s immediate priority will be the implementation of our manifesto commitments, which the Bill delivers. I have not given any undertaking that we will do another Bill to consolidate, as was set out in that group of amendments.

Amendment 213 would prevent Schedule 8 coming into force until a time when the Secretary of State has made a statement to Parliament on the voting and candidacy rights of EU citizens. The Government’s position on this policy is clear and settled and was set out in detail in a Written Ministerial Statement in the other place on 17 June 2021. Now that we have left the EU, there should not be a continued automatic right to vote and stand in local elections solely by virtue of being an EU citizen. We have made provision to protect the rights of those who made their home here before our exit and preserved rights where that can be done on a bilateral basis, protecting UK citizens living in those countries in turn. A statement of clear intent on this matter has already been made to Parliament and I can see no purpose in restating our position. I therefore urge the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.

Elections Bill

Viscount Stansgate Excerpts

Lords Hansard - Part 1 & Committee stage
Monday 28th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Meacher (CB)]

I shall contribute briefly, following the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, in support of Amendment 155A. I too fully support the principle of “no taxation without representation”. If the Minister is unable to support this amendment, I wonder whether he could explain to the House why the Government do not accept this incredibly reasonable principle. How can they not agree to that? I do not get it.

The complexity and confusion referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, will inevitably be caused by introducing different voting rights for EU citizens who arrived in the UK before 2021 and those who arrived in or after 2021, and for those have arrived from one EU country rather than from another. It seems that Scotland and Wales are extremely sensible, as they have managed to adopt residence-based voting rights. The case for a UK-wide approach on this issue is incredibly strong and the Government will need a powerful argument to deny it. I hope they are able to make a sensible decision and accept the amendment.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, I add my name to those who have expressed their regret that the noble Lord, Lord True, is not in his place to respond to today’s debate. All I can say is that I wish him a good recovery. If he is watching us online, I do not know whether that will aid his recovery or delay it.

The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and other Members, including my noble friend Lord Desai, have all identified that this is an important part of the Bill but it is a mess. It is really difficult to encapsulate what we are trying to talk about, but I wanted to intervene to make one point. One of the general principles that we should apply is that if you have the right to vote, however that is defined, then you should also have the right to be a candidate. You may say that that is a rather simple and obvious thing to say, but I shall give the Committee an example: between 1969 and 2006 we had a period where there were people with the right to vote but not to be a candidate. It is remarkable, really, that it was only in 2006 that the law was changed to allow people from the age of 18 to 21 to be a candidate as well as being an elector. I have good personal reasons for being very well aware of that fact. I wanted to introduce the principle that there is a good case for having a system whereby, if you have the right to vote, you can also be a candidate in the election in question.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, I also wish to speak in this part of the debate in Committee on these amendments.

I have to be totally honest with the Committee: when I was asked to be part of the team on this Bill, I was not an expert on elections other than that I had been a candidate and I had been the leader of a council and seen election officers’ work close up. As we have progressed through the Bill, some issues have become clearer but some have confused me even more as we have debated them. This is a part of the Bill that really confuses me. What is the basis of the electoral franchise in the UK? What is the platform that is easily understood by a citizen? This is an example of why electoral law needs to be simplified.

I want to deconstruct what that means in the terms of my noble friend Lord Shipley’s Amendment 155A. Let us take it down to ordinary citizens. In a local authority area, you could have someone who owns a holiday home, and so has an address there, but they never live there. They rent that accommodation out for 52 weeks a year, yet they have a right to vote there. They do not use the services and do not contribute other than in council tax. Another person lives there for 365 days a year, works in the local area and pays taxes, volunteers at the local food bank, is an upstanding member of the community and gets involved in litter picks, is an active citizen in the community, uses the bin service, wants to get involved in planning and is affected by planning policy, has friends who use social care, wishes to use the library—and library services are starting to charge—and uses all the local services but, because of either where they came from or when they came to the UK, they do not have a vote. Yet someone in that area who has no connection other than that they can purchase a holiday home can vote.

Ukraine

Viscount Stansgate Excerpts

Thursday 24th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

As I have said, there will be some SIs next week in relation to some of the sanctions. Through the debate we had earlier today, we already have some of the powers we need. There will be that and, as I said, we will be bringing forward measures on unexplained wealth orders before the House rises at Easter. We will also be bringing forward an economic crime Bill in the next Session, of which further details will be set out in due course.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, like my noble friend Lord Robertson, I well remember waking up in August 1968, not least because it was my birthday and, instead of being wished a happy birthday, I was told that the Russians had invaded Czechoslovakia. I want to ask one question arising out of the Statement. It says that the UK now has

“a clear mission: diplomatically, politically, economically—and eventually, militarily”.

Can I invite the Leader of the House to explain the use of the word “militarily” in that context? Does it imply that the UK will now continue to supply arms to Ukraine?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

Yes, we have said that we will provide further support to Ukraine in terms of both lethal aid in the form of defensive weapons and non-lethal aid, such as body armour and helmets. We will be continuing to supply them and support them in that way.

Sue Gray Report

Viscount Stansgate Excerpts

Monday 31st January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

As I have said, the Prime Minister has taken full responsibility and is working to address these issues. I cannot comment on an ongoing police investigation and am not going to prejudge its findings.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, when the sorry episode of this Government comes to be written, one of the parts of today’s Statement that will attract a great deal of interest is that which says that the Government intend to set up an office of the Prime Minister. I would like to follow the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Butler. We are a parliamentary democracy, and a Prime Minister is primus inter pares. The development outlined in this Statement indicates that the Government are thinking of moving towards a much more presidential style, with a proper office of the Prime Minister at No. 10. In view of the long-term potential significance of this, will the Leader find time for a debate in government time in this House so we can explore the constitutional, longer-term implications of what is being proposed?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

I am sure there will be a lot of discussions around this issue.

Ukraine

Viscount Stansgate Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

As I said in response to the noble Baroness’s question about Nord Stream 2, we do not believe that it is compatible with Russia’s aggressive actions. We remain opposed to it and we continue to raise our concerns with our allies and partners to highlight the strategic risks of this project.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, this might not be a popular question to ask, but it is a very dangerous situation. The House knows that one of the options is war if President Putin makes the fatal mistake of invading Ukraine, but just before entering the Chamber, I listened to Secretary of State Blinken make his statement that the United States has put questions to and answered questions from Russia. He made a point of saying that he will not reveal what the United States has said. The reason for that, as I understand it, is that if you are to have diplomacy and give it a chance, as the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, said, it is very difficult, and patient diplomacy takes a great deal of doing. Perhaps it is better that an element of space is given to enabling the negotiations to take place.

I remember the Cuban missile crisis from when I was a young person, and that was a terribly dangerous time but, as those who have read a little about it will remember, it was giving the other side the opportunity to withdraw and save face that stopped, in that case, a nuclear exchange. In this case, I hope it would stop a very unnecessary and deeply damaging war.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

The noble Lord is right, which is why, as I said, diplomacy is the only way out of the current situation. There are a number of forums through which diplomatic channels are open, and we want to use them; we are urging Russia to use them, as are our allies. We will try to make sure that we can de-escalate the situation because, as the noble Lord says, the quagmire of a long-running conflict would be catastrophic for all sides.