National Care Service

Debate between Alison McGovern and Clive Betts

Thursday 15th October 2026 Commons Chamber

[Alison McGovern]

I thank the hon. Lady for her contribution. She makes a good argument, which I think we all see, about how disjointed and fragmented the system is. [Interruption.] The shadow Health Secretary is trying to help me out by explaining that her question was probably slightly out of scope of my policy responsibilities, but I will certainly mention to the Chancellor, if I bump into him, that she had a view that she would like to share with him.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

I very much welcome my hon. Friend’s statement. We have talked about this issue for so many years, and it is time that we got on with it and tried to get cross-party agreement. While we are waiting for the Casey report—I know Louise from old, and she will be robust and independent in what she recommends—is it the idea that we will set out a national framework, where Government lay down standards and hopefully the funding, and then the service is organised at a local level by local authorities, working closely with primary care, public health and local housing providers, who are often missed out in the important join-up that we have to achieve?

[Alison McGovern]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question and his experience in this area, which he has shared with me over many years; I appreciate it. He describes the situation well. We need a system that is much less fragmented, easier to understand and that responds to the local context. It is very different providing care in urban areas and rural areas, for example. We have to think through those issues. There are certain things, which I laid out in my statement, that we need to crack on with now, such as giving young people the chance of a job in social care, and other issues we will work through alongside local government colleagues and, as he says, housing providers, too.

Local Government Finance

Debate between Alison McGovern and Clive Betts

Wednesday 17th December 2025 Commons Chamber

[Alison McGovern]

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman was listening when I gave my earlier answer on rurality. We have recognised where there are extra cost pressures, and I will happily discuss this in detail with him if he wishes. This is recognised in the statement and in the data that we have taken account of. The new deprivation statistics are much more fine-grained, and they can find poverty wherever it is, whether it is in a town, a city, a village, a rural area or wherever.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

I do not know whether my hon. Friend is as surprised as I am that the official Opposition could not even bear to mention the word “austerity” when they responded. Before we move on, there was a case of amnesia from the Lib Dems, who forget their role, under the coalition Government, in some of the worse cuts of all that local government experienced. I therefore welcome the Minister’s comments about deprivation. The poorest councils got hit hardest during austerity by the Conservatives. I thank her for putting tackling deprivation at the heart of this settlement.

I have two challenges. The Chair of the Select Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall and Camberwell Green (Florence Eshalomi), reiterated what we said in the Select Committee in the last Parliament: council tax is regressive and has to be reformed. The Minister mentioned the need for long-term changes to the whole way in which social care is funded. Would she at least begin a conversation across parties to try to get long-term agreement about how this should be done? It has failed over and over again through parties squabbling over the details. We need a long-term settlement. Can we at least start those conversations now?

[Alison McGovern]

My hon. Friend is extremely experienced in these matters and remembers, as I do, the impossible situation that councils, particularly in the poorest areas, were put in under the Tory Government. He is right to point out that the Lib Dems did play a small role in that, too. On his questions, I always read in detail the Select Committee’s reports, and I will do that with the ones he mentions. The Government have set out the pathway, making the immediate change that I said on social care and asking Baroness Casey to drive us towards that long-term vision that he points out. That is exactly what we need to do; we need to fix this for the long term.