Income Tax

Baroness Primarolo Excerpts

Wednesday 5th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. I inform hon. Members that if each Back-Bench contribution takes nine minutes—fewer than 10, including interventions—it will not be necessary to have a formal time limit, but if the early speakers speak for longer than 10 minutes, then subsequent speakers will find themselves on a time limit. I hope that everybody can co-operate to ensure a fair allocation of time.

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[Andrew Bridgen]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. [Interruption.] It is in the nature of the Labour party that there is always another tax. Labour Members say, “One more tax will do it”, but it never ends, does it? He is quite right that the ability to earn—I stress that the word is “earn”, not “be given” or “inherit”—£150,000 a year or more does not—[Interruption.] Madam Deputy Speaker, this is ridiculous.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. This is getting absolutely ridiculous. The hon. Gentleman has the Floor. We do not need the rest of the Members in the Chamber to engage in separate conversations. If they wish to do so, they can go outside and have a conversation. Otherwise, they should listen respectfully to the hon. Gentleman who has the Floor.

[Andrew Bridgen]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. If the shadow Minister wishes to intervene, I am more than happy to give way.

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[Mr McKenzie]

How does the hon. Gentleman feel about comments from the hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) who said that cutting the rate of tax to 45p would emphasise to the public that again, the Conservative party is indeed the party of the rich?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. I said at the beginning of the debate that if we co-operated with each other and each speaker spoke for no more than nine or a maximum of 10 minutes, everybody would be able to speak without a time limit. The hon. Gentleman has now spoken for 13 minutes, so I would be grateful if he would think about drawing his remarks to a conclusion.

[Andrew Bridgen]

I am sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I was enjoying myself. In conclusion, by continuing to advocate a return to the 50p rate of tax, the Labour party is demonstrating that it is not a credible party of opposition, and certainly not of government. It is in fact a left-wing pressure group, ignoring economic evidence from around the world and determined to represent the interests of its union bosses.

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[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Mr Browne, you know full well that this debate is not a general debate on the Labour party or its leader, but a debate on income tax. You are now ranging far too wide, and I should be grateful if you came back to the point of today’s debate. I am sure you will find other ways to express your wider political views on the Labour party.

[Mr Browne]

I will do, and thank you for your guidance. I will move on to my practical and philosophical points.

My practical point echoes much of what was said by my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier). The basics of being a globally successful, wealth-creating economy are not that difficult to grasp. What we have to do is make sure that businesses can start up, expand and create jobs. I was struck by the fact that quite a few contributors to this debate said that they do not have many people in their constituency who earn over £150,000. However, that is not a source for celebration: we want to have more people who are starting companies successfully and are able to earn more than £150,000 because they are employing hundreds of people, exporting around the world and meeting demand in markets. The idea that these people should be reviled is utterly perverse. We want more of these people in every constituency.

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[Mr Browne]

I will finish in a moment, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have not abandoned that, which is why people earning up to £10,500 pay no income tax under this Government, whereas under Labour the relevant figure was £6,500. Of course there is then a standard rate and a higher rate. The hon. Gentleman made a mistake in his speech when he talked about tax cuts for millionaires. Let me give an example, which is party political. The Leader of the Opposition is a millionaire who does not pay this top rate of tax, but somebody who has just got a job earning £160,000 a year is not a millionaire but does pay his 50p rate of tax. It was deliberately misleading from the hon. Gentleman and it reflected badly on him.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman will rephrase his point about the shadow Chief Secretary misleading the Chamber and then he will conclude his remarks because he knows we now need to move to the wind-ups.

[Mr Browne]

I am grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I do not really understand in what way it was inaccurate to say that was misleading, because it clearly was misleading.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. You are not to question the Chair. I am telling you, as the Chair, that you have accused the Opposition spokesperson of misleading this House, and that is unparliamentary and unworthy of you as an experienced parliamentarian. Therefore, I am asking you to rephrase it.

[Mr Browne]

I am extremely apologetic for implying that somebody who earns £160,000 a year is not a millionaire if they have only just started earning that amount, and—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. Don’t play games, please, Mr Browne. You clearly said on the record that the shadow Chief Secretary, in his opening remarks, misled this House. Under the conventions of the House, that is not permitted. So I am, again, asking you now to rephrase or withdraw that remark.

[Mr Browne]

I withdraw the remark that I made a few moments ago and I apologise, of course, for behaving inappropriately in my speech. I conclude, as you would wish me to do, Madam Deputy Speaker, before we have the wind-ups, by urging the House to reject the motion, which would make the country as a whole poorer and make it harder for us to fund the public services on which everybody, including the least well-off, rely. It would also undermine the personal freedom of people who work, are entrepreneurial and create the necessary preconditions for us to be a successful country.