Energy Infrastructure

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Stephen Crabb

Wednesday 5th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for bringing that to the House’s attention. There are currently about 200 GW of projects on the books. Many of those are zombie projects, as he describes them, that will not come to fruition and so are clogging up the system. The Government need somehow to get rid of those projects in order to focus on areas where we know there will be investment, and to encourage an anticipatory investment approach that will deliver the new infrastructure we need in a timely way. Otherwise, we will end up developing a renewable technology and a system able to generate clean energy, but we will not have the grid to get it where it is needed.

Secondly, on nuclear energy, our inquiry confirmed that there is a broad consensus between the UK Government and the Welsh Government on the role that nuclear should play in achieving the UK’s net zero targets and ensuring domestic energy security. The majority of our witnesses were in favour of new nuclear energy generation in Wales, and I am pleased to say that the Committee agreed that nuclear energy has a strong role to play in a mix of low-carbon sources.

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie) for the role she played on the Committee, as well as in her capacity as a constituency MP, in championing nuclear energy for Ynys Môn. There has been no more energetic and active Member of Parliament for Ynys Môn that I can remember—she has done a great job in championing her constituency. Our report carries and reflects much of the positivity that my hon. Friend brought to the subject.

We heard strong evidence about the suitability of the Wylfa site on Ynys Môn for a new gigawatt-scale reactor. In fact, we do not believe that the Government will meet their targets for increasing nuclear power without building that large-scale nuclear plant at Wylfa. We recognise the progress that the Government have made in establishing Great British Nuclear and bringing forward the regulated asset base model for securing investment in new nuclear. However, despite that positive progress, a new nuclear power station at Wylfa in north Wales is not in the bag.

When I was in Government 10 years ago, we championed a new nuclear power station at Wylfa. Ministers were sent for photo opportunities there and to meet potential investors, but it did not happen. I know that the community in Ynys Môn, represented by my hon. Friend, feels disappointment because it has had its hopes raised and dashed in the past. We do not want that to happen again, so I implore the Minister to hear the arguments about Wylfa. I know he feels passionate about the subject and will discuss these issues with Government colleagues.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

Did any of the witnesses point out the eye-wateringly high cost of new nuclear, as well as how painfully slow the process will be, given the amount of time it will take for it to be up and running? With the best will in the world, it is unlikely that there will be a new big nuclear power station until the early 2030s. Given the Government’s own target to decarbonise the electricity supply by 2035, nuclear will be unable to play much of a part in helping us to achieve that.

[Stephen Crabb]

The hon. Lady makes a good point. Investment in large-scale nuclear, or even small modular reactors, is a longer-term feature of our energy system, as the Government’s “Powering up Britain” report recognised. In fact, the Government’s targets for increasing nuclear are for 2050, not 2030.

On the cost of nuclear, yes, those points were made to the Committee. We made sure that we had an evidence session to hear from Friends of the Earth and others who are opposed to nuclear per se. We heard their strong arguments about their belief in an energy system entirely comprising of renewable and power storage technology in the future, but we also heard strong evidence that the technology for that does not yet exist. We have to stay in the real world, so nuclear, which has been tried and tested over the long term as a provider of cheap and reliable power, is an important part of our future energy mix, in conjunction with other energy sources.

United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Stephen Crabb

Wednesday 16th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

It would be great—it would be perfectly neat—if LCMs were provided, but we are in a political context where, unfortunately, that looks very unlikely, because we are dealing with such big issues as Brexit and the future of our Union. We know that the representatives in government in Cardiff Bay and in Edinburgh have a fundamentally different view of the world from ours.

I shall end by saying something about the shared prosperity fund. I am the Chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee and we have been taking evidence on this. Even though I very strongly support the Bill, I want to register a concern with the those on the Front Bench about the progress of work in Whitehall on the shared prosperity fund. It is patently clear from the evidence that we have received that the pace of work is nowhere near fast enough, given the timescales involved for replacing the EU funds. There is a real need now for Ministers to step up the activity levels.

I also think that, again speaking to the Front Benchers, we need a bit more clarity and transparency on what the future of those funds will be. Even though I support the powers in the Bill this afternoon, in terms of building trust and good will with the devolved Administrations there is certainly a need for a much more detailed conversation about the future of the funds.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

I am pleased to follow the right hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb) because I want to disagree very strongly with many of the things he said, but one of the points that he made was that opposition to the Bill is about our views on Brexit. I want to say loudly and clearly that opposition to the Bill has actually got nothing to do with our views on Brexit and everything to do with our views on who we are as a country, on whether we want to uphold international law and on the most basic principles of liberal democracy. The Bill is a shameful, shabby, squalid Bill that will break international law, trash our reputation overseas, undermine the withdrawal agreement, destabilise Northern Ireland and wreck the devolution settlement.

I rise to speak to amendment 20 in my name. Let me say straightaway that I completely support the case that has been made so eloquently by Opposition Members about the importance of protecting devolution. I have enormous sympathy for those who, frankly, would start again and get rid of clause 46 entirely. I would support that, but for as long as it is part of the Bill, my case is that it needs strong amendment.

Amendment 20 would set out that

“Any financial assistance provided under this section must be consistent with the achievement of any climate and environmental goals and targets applicable”.

Financial assistance spending can have major environmental impacts, which can be negative. We have heard from the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss), for example, some of the most egregious examples of how money has been used in a negative, incompetent and environmentally damaging way. Examples include road building where the evidence suggests that it leads to more driving and more emissions. Or, of course, money can be spent in a positive way, kick-starting new, good-quality, innovative green industries and jobs, and supporting progressive climate and environmental policy.