Crime and Policing Bill (Second sitting)

Debate between David Burton-Sampson and Louise Sandher-Jones

Committee stage
Thursday 27th March 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Louise Jones (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)]

Q Baroness Newlove, cuckooing is a pretty heinous crime that takes advantage of some very vulnerable victims. What impact do you think making cuckooing a specific offence will have on those victims?

Baroness Newlove: Don’t get me started on cuckooing! Cuckooing is an interesting area, and I have been working on it for quite a long time. People do not realise the level of harm it causes entire families. It can destroy them. My concern about cuckooing is centres on understanding and whether the Government will ensure there is guidance for police and other operational partners.

Cuckooing is not what you see on the soap operas. These are evil people who pick on vulnerable people and take over their lives. While this Bill creates a new offence whereby a person commits an offence if they exercise control of the dwelling, it sounds very blah-di-blah. What is needed is breaking down the problem and educating people on how this can absolutely take over the lives of the most vulnerable people. It goes into exploitation and county lines—there is no one thing. What I want is for all this to flow into this mechanism. Cuckooing has to be stated, but we must put it alongside exploitation, county lines, drugs and everything else. My concern is that when the guidance is published, victims of cuckooing will still not realise that they are being cuckooed. I do not know where they got the word cuckooing from, but that was what it was called when I went out with the police many years ago.

It is a really hard thing to break. If that person thinks that they are a part of the family, as well as the huge threat to their real family, it is very hard to recognise that. This problem must have a multi-agency approach and it must be in capitals and it must be where we are reporting. There have been many millions spent in this area, but I would like those involved to be more educated and to get a professional toolkit. I know a toolkit has been developed to help to disrupt cuckooing victimisation —I think it was issued to professionals in October 2024. I encourage authorities to utilise it. It is so important, and I have seen so much devastation from cuckooing. It is like watching a film on screen, but it is real life for some people today.

[David Burton-Sampson]

Q Again, this one is for you, Baroness Newlove. There is nothing more frustrating than having your device stolen and knowing where it is, yet the police being unable to act. Are you confident that the new powers in the Bill will give the police what they need to act in those situations where a device can be located?

Baroness Newlove: I am always confident in new powers. My reservation or caveat to all of that is about using them in a sensible way. This is anecdotal, but we hear it every day, even in Parliament, being told to put our phones in our bags—that is how bad it is. It is making sure that the police use those powers properly and understand them. We are also looking into the technology that could be equipped to research these incidents and prevent them from happening in the first place. We need to protect victims from them. Unfortunately, anecdotally, I am not hearing that the police are actually doing something. That is why we must get police better training and understanding to protect victims. Victims, doing their own investigations, phone up the police and say, “I know where my phone is,” and the police do nothing. While legislation is great for professionals, we have got to see the people on the ground delivering for the victims.