Northern Ireland Protocol Bill

David Jones Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 27th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

The status of Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom derives initially from the Act of Union 1800, the sixth article of which provides that, in matters of trade and in treaties with foreign powers, the

“subjects of Ireland shall have same the privileges…as…subjects of Great Britain.”

The 1800 Act was augmented, as we know, by the Belfast/Good Friday agreement of 1998, which declares that

“it would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save with the consent of a majority of its people”.

As hon. Members have said today, the Belfast agreement is fundamental to the maintenance of peace in Northern Ireland, and preserves its constitutional status. The fact that the agreement is crucial is acknowledged in the Northern Ireland protocol, which says that the protocol

“is without prejudice to the provisions of the 1998 Agreement in respect of the constitutional status of Northern Ireland and the principle of consent”.

The essential point is that the protocol, which is part of an international treaty, explicitly acknowledges the primacy of the Belfast agreement—another international treaty.

The agreement, however, has been undermined by the protocol. It is absolutely clear that the arrangements set up by the protocol are having a detrimental impact on life in Northern Ireland and on the privileges of its people. As we have heard, there are burdensome checks on goods passing from Great Britain to Northern Ireland, and that has created a border in the Irish Sea between constituent parts of the United Kingdom, which cannot be acceptable.

As we heard from the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson), people in Northern Ireland find it difficult to secure many goods that they have traditionally been able to purchase, and there has been a diversion of trade away from mainland Great Britain and towards the European Union. The disruption has also impacted the democratic institutions of Northern Ireland. The Assembly has not been reconstituted since the elections earlier this year, and the Executive remains suspended. This is a worrying and potentially dangerous state of affairs, especially given the sensitive political history of Northern Ireland.

[Angus Brendan MacNeil]

Given the right hon. Gentleman’s concern for the Assembly and for democracy in Northern Ireland, does he think that the protocol should be decided on by that very Assembly?

[Mr Jones]

The Assembly will, in due course, have the right to decide on it, but that will be after the passage of four years.

Both the UK and the EU recognise the practical problems of the protocol and its impact on Northern Ireland. Both recognise that those problems should, if possible, be resolved by negotiation, and hon. Members in all parts of the House have repeated that today. Everybody would like the issues to be resolved through negotiation, but for that to happen, it would be necessary for the EU to change the negotiating mandate given to Vice-President Šefčovič—and that it refuses to do. As we heard from the Secretary of State, there have been extensive negotiations over 18 months, and they have been fruitless.

The Government have a clear duty to take action to restore the privileges of the people of Northern Ireland, so that they are equal to those of people in the rest of the UK, and to respect the primacy of the Belfast/Good Friday agreement. The action that the Government have taken is to introduce this Bill, which does not, as has been suggested, tear up the protocol; on the contrary, it respects and protects the integrity of the EU’s single market and the openness of the land border, both of which are matters in which the EU and the Irish Republic are concerned. There will still be checks on goods arriving in Northern Ireland but destined for the European Union, through a red lane arrangement.

The Bill explicitly protects the EU single market against the movement across the Irish land border of goods on which the correct EU tariffs have not been paid, or which do not comply with EU regulatory standards. It also provides explicitly that no land border infrastructure or checks or controls on the borders may be created. In every respect, that satisfies the European Union’s concerns.

The Bill also complies with the United Kingdom’s obligations under the Belfast/Good Friday agreement. It preserves the status of Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom by restoring the equality of the privileges of its people with those enjoyed by the people of the rest of the United Kingdom.

The Bill is wholly necessary. Without it, the peace process established by the Belfast agreement will be dangerously compromised. It is a crucial but proportionate Bill, and it deserves the support of the House.

Government Policy on Syria

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Alison McGovern]

The hon. Gentleman pre-empts what I am about to say and makes the point well. It would be good if the Minister could update the House on the diplomatic approach that we will take. If we in this House turn away from our principles, we lose sight not just of the Syrian people, but of ourselves. We honour our history, our culture and our interests by standing up for our values and their implementation. As I mentioned, the then Minister for the Middle East and North Africa, the right hon. Member for Braintree, said:

“The best thing for the UK to do is to ensure that the violence stops”.—[Official Report, 24 February 2020; Vol. 672, c. 28.]

As I said, it would helpful if the Minister could use this opportunity to update the House on the current strategy.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. She will probably be aware that there has been a resurgence of Daesh activity in northern and eastern Syria. In relation to the point that she has just made, does that not also underline the need for the United Kingdom and its allies to pay close attention to what is happening today in Syria?

[Alison McGovern]

The right hon. Gentleman is exactly right. Where we take away our focus and shift our eyes, we leave a vacuum. Whether it is Daesh or any other form of terrorism around the world, if we are not involved in the world—not that we can do everything, but if we are not doing all we can to prevent the rise of terrorism—in the end, the House will have to pay attention to it. It is far better to have a plan and a strategy for dealing with it.

As the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned, we know that many millions of people—in fact, most of the Syrian population; I think it is even worse than he said—are facing acute food insecurity. The number is 51% higher than in 2019. Record numbers of people need humanitarian assistance, and food prices have risen by more than 800%. That is mainly attributed to ongoing fuel shortages, increasing global food prices, inflation, and, of course, the Ukraine crisis. Against that backdrop, the World Food Programme has been forced to reduce food rations in all areas of Syria due to funding constraints. We face the perfect storm. If the Minister can, will she touch on the steps that the UK Government are taking, as a permanent member of the UN Security Council, to ensure the renewal of resolution 2585 before it expires shortly on 10 July 2022 and ensure that the crucial crossing point at Bab al-Hawa remains open for the delivery of humanitarian assistance?

As well as there being a huge number of internally displaced people, many of whom are suffering in the most dreadful humanitarian conditions, the Syrian refugee population is now the largest in the world at 6.8 million. I appreciate that some of this is the Home Office’s responsibility, but will the Minister update the House on international discussions about support for that population and on the UK’s view of the future for Syrian refugees in the world?

It is ludicrous to expect the burden of supporting that number of people to continually fall on just a few countries. In response to a public outcry, the Conservative Government previously created a specific scheme to help to support Syrian refugees, but that is over now and in the past. We need to learn the lessons of the Homes for Ukraine scheme and our response in that case, so I would be grateful if the Minister could indicate the direction that we might be taking.

Speaking personally, I am inspired by the Syrians I meet in the United Kingdom. I think of the Syrians who work in the NHS in Merseyside as doctors. My hon. Friend the Member for Batley and Spen (Kim Leadbeater) also mentioned to me Razan Alsous, a Syrian refugee she knows who has created a great business with Yorkshire squeaky cheese, and a fellow Syrian restaurateur, Khaled Deakin, who is creating a mobile restaurant in Exeter. Refugees bring their contribution, and they make our country strong, not weak.

I want to finish by asking the Minister about Syrian civil society here in the UK, because the route to peace and democracy in Syria will be very long. While at times it will seem that the British Government can do very little to bring about change in Syria, we do now have so many British Syrians and Syrian civilians here in the UK who will be an indispensable asset in building the first steps on the long path towards a different future for Syria. Could the Minister say what work the Foreign Office is currently undertaking to engage with Syrians in the UK and British Syrians? There are many issues where the perspective of our fellow community members in the UK who have a deep connection to Syria may well be of huge benefit and insight. I am sure the Minister will herself have learned a great deal from speaking with them and understanding their priorities, not least in working towards justice and putting down a path for prosecution for the horrific crimes committed against civilians in Syria.

Finally, I want to say something about this House, because we are often reactive when it comes to such crises. When an emergency happens in the case of Syria or of Ukraine, we all want our say, and that is only right in a democracy, but these crises and conflicts have a sustained impact on the world around us, be it in Syria or any other conflict that has seen such abysmal treatment of our fellow human beings. We in this House must have the persistence and seriousness of purpose to give effect to our values and to defend our interests, and the moral discipline to see things through to the end. News cycles can move on; we must not.

Jo described Syria as “our generation’s test”, but when you fail a test, you learn your lesson, and we must do that not just for the Syrians, who deserve better from us all, but for every victim of every conflict wherever they may be, so that we may see them not as a victim of some foreign war, but very much as the business of this House.

Northern Ireland Protocol

David Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 17th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Elizabeth Truss]

As I have made clear, our proposals are legal in international law and we will set out the legal position in due course.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

The Foreign Secretary has put forward sensible and practical proposals for protecting the integrity of the EU single market, and they could be quite easily reciprocated by the European Union. Has she put the proposals to Mr Šefčovič? If so, what was his response? If he has refused to accept them, what reason has he given?

Shireen Abu Aqla

David Jones Excerpts

Monday 16th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Vicky Ford]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that the killing has been condemned across the world, and indeed by us in the UK. As I have said, we have called for an immediate, thorough, transparent, fair and impartial investigation. It is really important that that happens soon and that it is very thorough. I think that we were all completely shocked by the scenes at her funeral. We are deeply concerned about the rise in violent attacks in the area, and we continue to call for peace, as we always have done; working to deliver peace is our top priority. She was an incredibly respected journalist and the hon. Gentleman is right to point to the risk to journalists across the world. I believe that across the world 26 journalists have been killed so far this year, including six in Ukraine—it might even be more since the last update I received. We must stand for journalists and for media freedom.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is entirely right to express concern about the scenes at the funeral of Shireen Abu Aqla, but given that there can be absolutely no doubt as to what happened at the funeral, when mourners and pallbearers were attacked by Israeli police officers, will she confirm that the Government have already made representations to the Israeli authorities expressing concern and indicating how deplorable those scenes were?

[Vicky Ford]

Yes, my right hon. Friend is absolutely right about the deplorable scenes. We have already stated that we are deeply disturbed by those scenes, and we are looking at what further measures might be taken. Most importantly, we continue to call for urgent steps to de-escalate tensions and for restraint in the use of force. It is absolutely vital that tensions are reduced and that we get parties back to dialogue and working towards peace.

Throwline Stations

David Jones Excerpts

Monday 24th January 2022 Westminster Hall

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

May I say how pleased I am to see you in the Chair, Ms Ghani? I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Nick Fletcher) on his opening speech, and thank the Petitions Committee for securing the debate.

The petition was initiated by a constituent of mine, Mrs Leeanne Bartley of Ruthin, who is present in the Chamber, and it was prompted by the tragic death of her son, Mark Allen. As we have heard, on 5 June 2018, Mark, who was then aged 18 and living with his father in Gorton, Manchester, was with a group of friends in Debdale Park, one of the largest public open spaces in that city. It was a hot day, and Mark decided to cool off by swimming in the nearby Debdale reservoir—a large body of water managed by United Utilities. It would appear that he scaled a fence to climb up to a platform and dive into the reservoir. The water was bitterly cold, and, sadly, he immediately got into difficulties. His friends attempted to rescue him but were sadly unable to do so, and he disappeared under the water. Mark was a young man and talented drama student with his life ahead of him. He is severely missed by his family and friends.

United Utilities told the inquest into Mark’s death that there were a number of signs around the edge of the reservoir warning of the danger of the water, and pointing out that it was extremely cold and very deep in places. Since the incident, however, the company has installed a number of throwlines around the reservoir. I am afraid that it is frequently the case that throwlines appear after such an incident has occurred. Mrs Bartley’s view is that the authorities responsible for the management of large bodies of water should be proactive in the installation of throwlines, rather than reactive, as they are at the moment, sadly.

About 260 deaths from accidental drowning occur in the United Kingdom each year, and that is without taking into account the number of British citizens who die in drowning accidents overseas. Mrs Bartley believes very firmly that that number could be significantly reduced if there were a requirement to provide throwlines at every large body of water in the country. Clearly, everybody would agree that it is highly desirable that the number of deaths by drowning should be reduced. The provision of throwlines would be a move in the right direction.

Most reservoirs are owned by the major water companies. The Environment Agency is responsible for the management of rivers, and the Canal and River Trust is responsible for managing the canals around the country. Those entities have a responsibility for the safety of the bodies of water that they manage.

The Royal Life Saving Society UK is one of the leading charities in this field. It helps people to enjoy being on, in and around water safely. I commend its website, which is a tremendously valuable resource, which provides a huge amount of information about water safety and a catalogue of the risks associated with open water. As we have heard, those risks include: the shock of cold water, which can make swimming difficult even for the strongest swimmer, and can increase the difficulty of getting out of the water; the lack of safety equipment and the increased difficulty for rescue; the depth of the water, which changes frequently and is unpredictable; and strong currents that can sweep swimmers away.

Evidence given at the inquest indicated that the water in the reservoir was extremely cold. In fact, one of the witnesses said it was freezing. No doubt, the low temperature was at least a contributing factor leading to the difficulties that Mark got into. The coroner at the inquest remarked that Mark’s death was caused, as he put it, by “the impetuosity of youth”. He said:

“We think we are bulletproof. We do what comes naturally to us and never think about the risks.”

It is possible that, had throwlines been provided at the reservoir, more could have been done by Mark’s friends to avoid this dreadful tragedy. It is also probably true that if throwlines were more widely available on bodies of water across the country, there would be far fewer fatalities of this sort. In their response to the petition, the Government have pointed out that landowners have a

“responsibility to assess and act on the risks posed by open bodies of water on their land.”

That is certainly true. I ask the Minister, when she replies to the debate, to explain what actions landowners should take in response to those risks, and whether she agrees that throwlines, which cost about £250, should be more widely available. Perhaps she could indicate if the Government are prepared to legislate, as urged by Mrs Bartley.

[Dr James Davies (Vale of Clwyd) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend and constituency neighbour is making some excellent points. I have had 566 constituents sign the petition—a significant number. Does he agree that any guidance or legislation that comes forward following the debate needs to apply to Wales as well as to the rest of the United Kingdom?

[Mr Jones]

I believe so. There has, in fact, been a debate on the issue already in the Welsh Senedd in Cardiff. When one considers that the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 is a national piece of legislation, I would very much hope that the Minister will indicate what national legislation she has in mind, or at least what the Government are prepared to do to provide stronger guidance to those who manage large bodies of water.

Finally, I commend the work of the Royal Life Saving Society UK. I have spoken to Mr Lee Heard of that organisation, who told me that the RLSS is always happy to assist landowners by advising what sensible precautions they can take to minimise the risks associated with bodies of open water on their land. It is a hugely valuable resource and I encourage all landowners to make use of it.

[Ms Nusrat Ghani (in the Chair)]

No doubt the Royal Life Saving Society UK will be in Hansard twice because of your contribution.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kemi Badenoch]

Yes, it is part of the key stage curriculum, but I will get DFE Ministers to write more comprehensively to the hon. Lady on this issue. I would not want to say something that is inaccurate, because it is not in my portfolio.

[Mr David Jones]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way before she concludes. As I understand it from her remarks, the Government are yet persuaded that legislation is the appropriate answer to the problem that we are debating, and she wishes to carry out further assessments. When does she anticipate that those assessments will be complete? Although I appreciate the point she makes about education and understanding the risks of the water, which are obviously correct, may I remind her what the coroner said? It was the impetuosity of youth—we all think that we are bullet-proof. Frankly, had there been a throwline there that day, it might well be the case that Mark Allen would be alive today. Will the Minister give serious consideration to legislation?

[Kemi Badenoch]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his intervention. We will give serious consideration to all the options. We need to make sure that this is absolutely the right pathway to go down. I understand the points that everyone has made. I do not want to be standing here for another debate when another child or young person has lost their life, so I want my right hon. Friend to know we take this issue very seriously. He has been in government and he knows that it is never a matter of making a statement in Westminster Hall. All sorts of people need to be consulted, and we need to work out which Department would start looking at this issue, but I have committed that we will come back with a response. We should be able to do that in a reasonable amount of time.

I reiterate that we all share the same ambition of making our waterways as safe as possible. There is more that can be done to educate people on the risks, but I know that the bodies charged with keeping people safe take that responsibility seriously and will be upping the ante in the months ahead to prevent deaths such as Mark’s in the future. I take this opportunity on behalf of the Government to urge every landowner, council, agency and charity involved in our waterways to find new and engaging ways in the months ahead to teach people about how to enjoy the water safely. We are here to support them in whatever way we can.

Finally, I want to thank again Mark’s mother, Leeanne Bartley, for bringing the petition forward and inviting us to debate this important issue. We are very grateful.

Occupied Palestinian Territories

David Jones Excerpts

Thursday 24th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock) on securing this important debate. Anyone who visits the west bank will soon see the extent and scale of the Israeli settlement programme. As we have heard from the hon. Gentleman, more than 500,000 Israeli settlers currently live in around 150 settlements constructed on occupied territory, and it is generally agreed by legal commentators that Israel’s actions in actively encouraging the settlement of the west bank contravene the provisions of the 1949 fourth Geneva convention.

The settlement programme was given some sort of a spurious legitimacy by the US peace plan for the middle east, which potentially paved the way towards a further major violation of Palestinian territory by annexation. It was, quite properly, subject to extensive international criticism. The British Government have made clear their opposition to the Israeli annexation plans, and I commend the Minister for the stance that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has taken. It is good news that the Israeli annexation plan has been suspended after the recent announcement of normalised relations between Israel, the United Arab Emirates and the kingdom of Bahrain.

[Jim Shannon]

One interesting point that was made at the time of this significant agreement was about finding

“a just, comprehensive and enduring resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.”

Will my right hon. Friend join me in calling on the Palestinian Authority to engage with Israel and its Arab neighbours to use the impetus of this historic agreement to negotiate a two-state solution?

[Mr Jones]

Yes, I am grateful for that intervention, and I will refer to that in my speech. I think that this opportunity should be seized.

As I said, this is an announcement that should be unequivocally welcomed. It represents a significant triumph of statecraft on the part of three important countries with which the UK has strong ties and the friendliest of relations. It also gives hope for further normalisation of relations between Israel and other Arab states. It holds out the prospect of peace, and it is a moment that should be seized by Israel as pointing a way forward that does not rest on a constant state of confrontation and conflict.

There will, sadly, never be peace for Israel or Palestine unless a sensible two-state solution is pursued and achieved. The US plan is not the way forward. It would amount to the shakiest possible foundation for a real and enduring peace. As for the United Kingdom, our position has always been clear: we support a negotiated settlement, providing for Israeli security and Palestinian sovereignty based upon the 1967 lines, with agreed land swaps and Jerusalem as a shared capital. I believe that that provides the best prospect of peace.

There is, however, one further action that the United Kingdom can, and should, take—that is, the recognition of the state of Palestine. This House already voted in 2014 to recognise Palestine’s statehood, and I suggest that now is the time for the British Government to confirm that recognition. With Israel receiving its own recognition across the Arab world, the two-state talks would enjoy a fairer wind if the parties negotiating were sovereign entities recognised by leading nations, such as the United Kingdom, with global influence. The position of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has consistently been that British recognition of Palestine’s statehood will come when it best serves the objective of peace. That time is now.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd April 2020 Commons Chamber

[Simon Hart]

I do not know whether I caught any more of that than you did, Mr Speaker, but I got the general gist of it. I suspect I would have answered with something along these lines. The collaboration between the UK Government and the Welsh Government is a really important element of all this. We are determined to put our political differences aside to achieve the goal that the businesses and residents of Wales want us to achieve, which is to defeat covid-19 for good.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con) [V]]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Government’s response to the coronavirus pandemic underlines the importance to Wales, and to every part of the UK, of being part of an economically powerful Union that is able to give real help to every individual business and person who needs it in times of trouble? How well does he feel that Wales would have fared had it not been part of that Union?

[Simon Hart]

My right hon. Friend puts his finger on a really important point. The key thing about this period is that, almost irrespective of people’s political backgrounds, everybody has come to the conclusion that we could have dealt with this situation only as a Union; whether in Scotland, Northern Ireland, England or Wales, the Union has really mattered. Never has the “United” in United Kingdom been more important than it is now. It does not matter what kind of sceptic someone is; that is pretty blatantly obvious to everybody.

Middle East Peace Plan

David Jones Excerpts

Thursday 30th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Dr Murrison]

The hon. Lady has made her case very powerfully, but this is a plan. It is not in any way an agreement. We need to get back to negotiation between Israel and Palestine. This peace plan has been a long time in gestation. It is not agreed, and in order for it to work, it must be agreed between Israelis and Palestinians.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

All of us on these Benches welcome the Government’s commitment to the vision of a global Britain post-Brexit, but if “global Britain” is to be anything more than a strapline, it surely means a commitment to an international order that is founded on the rule of law. My right hon. Friend has already said that the British Government would not acquiesce in the illegal annexation of land that is already illegally held. Can he confirm that he has communicated that position to the American Government?

[Dr Murrison]

Yes. Of course we have done that consistently. We have made our position clear consistently to the Americans and to others, and our position has not changed.

Iran

David Jones Excerpts

Monday 13th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Dominic Raab]

I thank my hon. Friend, but the reality is that this not about a lack of clarity around the law. Targeting a civilian airliner is clearly unlawful. There is no absence or lack of legal basis for making that point; the question is compliance. The first thing we need, which is having Iran acknowledge responsibility for this, is to get the full details—the full facts—of how it could have happened. If it is being suggested that it is a mistake, we need to know how a mistake like that could have happened and then learn the appropriate lessons from it. That is what we are absolutely committed to.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

The demonstrations on the streets of Tehran in which the British ambassador was inadvertently caught up follow a large amount of similar activity across the country towards the end of last year when several hundred Iranians lost their lives. Can my right hon. Friend confirm that when considering with his international colleagues the proper response to the events of last week, he and they will be mindful of the fact that large numbers of the Iranian people deplore the actions of the regime under which they live and want nothing more than freedom and the facility to live in peace with their neighbours?

[Dominic Raab]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. Of course the aftermath, with the scenes that we are seeing playing out in Tehran, is testament to that. What is important is that we allow the transparency for people to come to apply the pressure that they need to apply on the regime to change its course and to adopt a course that will lead the Government out of political and economic isolation. The first and foremost beneficiaries of that will be the people of Iran.

Situation in the Gulf

David Jones Excerpts

Monday 22nd July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

The Kingdom of Bahrain generously hosts HMS Jufair, the base from which HMS Montrose and other royal naval vessels operate. Its role in the Gulf is crucial, and in recent years Bahrain has been subject to destabilisation by the Iranian regime. Will my right hon. Friend take the opportunity today to acknowledge the value that this country places on the support that it receives from Bahrain, and the obligations it owes to that country?

[Mr Hunt]

I am very happy to do that. We have a memorandum of understanding with the Kingdom of Bahrain, and we are incredibly grateful for the support that Bahrain gives us in hosting HMS Jufair. In fact, that is the first permanent naval presence we have had in the middle east since 1935, so opening it last year was a very big step.