Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between David Jones and Huw Irranca-Davies(9 years, 11 months ago)
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Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)
4. Whether he has recently discussed the importance of UK membership of the EU with leading employers in Wales.
The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)
The EU remains a vital export market for Wales, together with countries outside the EU, but Wales and the UK would benefit from a renegotiated position within Europe, which is why the Prime Minister has committed to negotiating a new settlement in the European Union, to secure jobs and growth and to enable the EU to become more competitive, flexible and prosperous.
Huw Irranca-Davies
I am rightly reprimanded, Mr Speaker. I must pay attention.
On the basis that the head of European operations has made it clear that to threaten exit from the EU would be cutting off our nose to spite our face, and that 14,000 jobs in Ford Bridgend and in Dagenham would rely on our not leaving the EU, will the right hon. Gentleman say that he, as the Secretary of State for Wales responsible for protecting those jobs, is personally committed to keeping Wales within the UK and the European Union?
Mr Jones
I think that the hon. Gentleman is referring to the director of operations for Ford’s manufacturing operations in Europe, Mr Steve Odell. Mr Odell also said:
“there are absolutely some rules and regulations…that are difficult to take”.
We agree with Mr Odell on that and that is why we want the people of this country to have their say on their future in Europe after renegotiation, which only the Conservative party can and will deliver.
Wales Bill
Debate between David Jones and Huw Irranca-Davies(10 years ago)
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Mr David Jones
The hon. Gentleman has twice used the word “abused” in the context of Clwyd West. Will he please explain what he means by abuse in that context?
Huw Irranca-Davies
I entirely agree. We all make personal calculations in our political lives: we decide where we should stand, where we have connections and where we should cast our lot and go for it. However, the proposed system—this is the exact situation in the Rhondda—amounts to, “Well, I’m really going to go for this, but if all else fails there’s something I can fall back on.” My gut instinct is that that is not right and it does not feel right to many voters either.
The Bevan Foundation has been criticised, but it is a left-of-centre think tank—that is what it does. It is scandalous to say that it is simply an arm of the Labour party. If Members look at the work it has done on welfare issues, unemployment and economic incapacity in the valleys, they will see that some of it has been critical of the Labour party as well. When my hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) was looking for someone to do a report, my guess is that the Institute of Economic Affairs and others were not available or did not have the knowledge of Wales to do it.
The majority of people canvassed were very concerned. I will not repeat the quotes, but people from across all parts of south and west Wales said that they could not understand how people who had clearly been defeated could then pop up. Of course, that was reiterated by the Government’s own impact assessment, to which I am sure the Secretary of Sate will refer when he explains why he is jettisoning its findings.
After the first set of Assembly elections, it is not just the Labour party that underwent a damascene conversion, as it has been called, but the Tories and Lib Dems. Lord Crickhowell, who has already been mentioned, is categorically opposed to dual candidacy and said back in 2005:
“The present arrangements are really pretty indefensible”.—[Official Report, House of Lords, 15 June 2005; Vol. 672, c. 1216.]
The current Chief Secretary to the Treasury made exactly the same point. It was not just us or members of the public who were saying it at the time; other politicians also said, “We made a genuine mistake.”
As I said at the beginning, we can have discussions about closed and open lists in terms of proportionality and whether there is a different way of doing it, but I say adamantly to the Secretary of State that to reverse the system again, for whatever reason, is not the way to go. It does not work and it has been proven that it does not hold the confidence of people on the ground in Wales. Let us have the wider debate on the way forward, but simply to chop and change, particularly against the recommendations of the Electoral Commission, is no way to make Acts of Parliament.
Mr David Jones
I, of course, share the general delight at serving under your chairmanship, Mr Chope.
This has been an interesting and very forthright debate. Clause 2—it seems unnecessary to say—will overturn the ban on dual candidacy introduced by the Government of Wales Act 2006. Under its provisions, candidates at an Assembly election cannot stand both in a constituency and on a regional list. Before 2006, candidates could of course stand in both.
Amendment 15, which was moved by my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper), would require the Secretary of State to commission an independent review of the possible effects of dual candidacy on the effectiveness of the National Assembly for Wales and to lay the findings before both Houses within nine months of Royal Assent. I fully understand his intention in tabling the amendment and to a certain extent I empathise with him. I welcome the opportunity to debate further the merits of removing the current unfair ban. My hon. Friend has highlighted the need for independent evidence on the effects of dual candidacy, which is of course important, but the fact is that ample evidence from independent bodies shows that dual candidacy is part and parcel of similar systems across the world.
The previous Labour Government justified imposing the ban on dual candidacy on the grounds that they said there was “considerable dissatisfaction” with the system, although they provided little evidence to support that position. Frankly, having listened to the debate, I have to say that I have heard little more evidence this afternoon. We have of course had the Bevan Foundation—
Mr Jones
I do not think that we have had that difficulty in the past.
The Opposition have pointed to the fact that a majority of respondents to the Government’s Green Paper consultation were in favour of retaining the ban as further evidence in support of it. However, if one takes away the many Labour Assembly Members, who responded in a strikingly similar way, that would no longer be the case. The simple fact is that the ban was introduced to benefit one party, the Labour party, in one part of the United Kingdom, Wales, and in not Scotland or London.
In his evidence to the Welsh Affairs Committee during its pre-legislative scrutiny of the draft Bill, Professor Scully said that the claims that are made about dual candidacy, which have been repeated again and again by Labour Members,
“remain wholly unsupported by solid evidence”.
I repeat that the simple fact is that the ban was introduced as a partisan act that affects smaller parties disproportionately and ensures that good quality candidates are lost to the Assembly.
Huw Irranca-Davies
Lord Bourne, who was my friend and fellow academic at Swansea Institute of Higher Education—that great factory of political candidates—is often cited as someone who lost out, did not have the list to fall back on and hence went into other occupations. However, does the Secretary of State accept that if a candidate who, for very good reasons, was wholly objectionable to the electorate—not a Lord Bourne, but somebody wholly objectionable—was No. 1 on a closed list because of the party selection, Conservative, Liberal or Plaid Cymru voters would have no choice but to vote for them? That is one of the big problems with the reversal that he is proposing.
Mr Jones
Absolutely not. Electors may cast their votes in any way they wish for whichever candidates they wish. That argument is wholly facile.
The right hon. Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy) seemed to criticise the whole concept of a top-up list. As somebody who is far more supportive of the first-past-the-post system, I have considerable sympathy for that point of view on the basis that one lives by the sword or dies by the sword. However, every party in this House supports some form of proportional election to the Assembly, as he accepted. It seemed to me that his criticisms, and those of the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain), were aimed more at the consequences of the proportional representation system than at dual candidacy. Therefore, we are now legislating to remove that unfair prohibition and to reintroduce the system that was in place and worked well between 1998 and 2006.
The amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean also proposes that his review would consider the implications of removing the prohibition on dual candidacy for the desirable total number of Assembly Members; the ratio of Assembly Members elected by constituency and from the regional list; and the merits of an all-Wales list, rather than lists in five separate regions.
On the implications for the desirable number of Assembly Members, we set out in the Green Paper on future electoral arrangements that we believe 60 Assembly Members is the right number, and we continue to hold that view. I note that the First Minister said in his oral evidence to the Welsh Affairs Committee during pre-legislative scrutiny of the Bill that the Assembly could “undoubtedly” cope with its new powers without changing the number of Assembly Members.
The Government also believe that under existing arrangements, the current ratio of constituency and regional Assembly Members is right. The Green Paper set out our belief that an all-Wales national list was not desirable as it would place more distance between regional Members and their constituents than the existing five regions—a view that I think is shared across the Committee —and again, our view has not changed.
New clause 4, tabled by right hon. and hon. Members from Plaid Cymru, seeks to establish a mechanism through an Order in Council by which competence could be devolved to the Assembly to determine its size. In a similar vein, new clause 6 would enable devolution to the Welsh Government—I think it actually means the Welsh Assembly—of the power to determine the system by which Members are elected.
Although the Silk commission made no recommendations about the electoral system, it did recommend that the size of the Assembly should be increased so that it might better fulfil its scrutiny role, and new clause 4 would pre-empt that. The commission also acknowledged the practical implications of its recommendation on the electoral system and the need for further consideration. The Government have made it clear in responding to publication of the commission’s report that any recommendation such as that requiring primary legislation should be for the next Parliament, and therefore for political parties to consider when preparing their manifestos for the 2015 general election. Of course, the commission also recommended that consideration be given to increasing capacity in the Assembly in the short term.
Earlier this year an Electoral Reform Society report found that 79% of Assembly Members surveyed believed that plenary time could be used more efficiently and effectively, and in the same survey, 90% of Assembly Members supported a comprehensive review of Assembly procedures. The Assembly and the Welsh Government have the power to change those things through Standing Orders, and I call on them to consider carefully how the Assembly could make better use of its time and the resources already available to it.
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean for his amendment, which has enabled a full and extensive debate this afternoon on the merits of removing the ban on dual candidacy. I hope I have been able to reassure him, at least, and I ask him to withdraw his amendment accordingly. I also urge right hon. and hon. Members from Plaid Cymru not to press new clauses 4 and 6 to a vote.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between David Jones and Huw Irranca-Davies(10 years, 2 months ago)
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Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)
The generosity of Welsh people in donating to mental health charities for veterans is unsurpassed. However, there have been concerns in recent months about the regulation and oversight of some of those charities and of some of the treatments available. Will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss those concerns to ensure that every penny piece that is raised by people in Wales goes towards the very best treatment for our veterans?
Commission on Devolution in Wales
Debate between David Jones and Huw Irranca-Davies(10 years, 5 months ago)
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Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)
The Secretary of State has described Opposition Members as Eeyores, so I will try to be a bit more like Tigger—a bit more optimistic—as long as he does not pooh-pooh this question. May I ask him for some more accuracy on when he expects the discussions between the Treasury and the Finance Minister in the Assembly Government to have concluded on the borrowing powers that will allow the M4 relief road to go ahead, releasing £2.1 billion into the south Wales economy?
Mr Jones
I am glad to see the more upbeat attitude of the hon. Gentleman. Those negotiations are continuing and, knowing both individuals involved—the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and the Finance Minister in the Welsh Assembly Government—I have no doubt that they have every intention of concluding them as quickly as possible.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between David Jones and Huw Irranca-Davies(10 years, 10 months ago)
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Mr Jones
I trust that the new public procurement process will be driven by providing value for taxpayers’ money, irrespective of where the business is located. Part of the object of the procurement service is to develop local supply chains, and in many parts of Wales the local economy will include businesses located in England.
Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State applaud the work of Professor Dermot Cahill of Bangor university, who is working with others and the Welsh Government to increase the number of small and medium-sized enterprises that are now making use of procurement in Wales? Would the right hon. Gentleman not say that, in that regard, Wales is leading the way?
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between David Jones and Huw Irranca-Davies(12 years ago)
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Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)
7. What recent progress has been made on electrification of the south Wales valley railways; and if she will make a statement.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)
My right hon. Friend and I are working with the Secretary of State for Transport and Welsh Ministers on the business case for electrification of the south Wales valley lines. We expect to make an announcement in the summer.
Huw Irranca-Davies
My hon. Friend the Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith) has the lovely Ebbw vale line. I live in the beautiful Llynfi valley and catch the Maesteg to Gloucester train via all points including Cardiff and Newport, a route which sometimes takes me through the delightful constituency of the hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns). All these link even as far west as Swansea. We are all valleys people on valleys rail connections, so when considering electrification for south Wales and the valleys, will the Minister’s definition of south Wales be my definition—the definition of the people of south Wales—because when it comes to electrification, we are all in this together?
Mr Jones
Yes, indeed. We recognise the importance of the electrification of the south Wales valley lines to the economy of the Cardiff city region and wider. The Chancellor of the Exchequer singled out electrification of those lines as a key infrastructure priority in the Budget, and I was delighted that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister confirmed his personal commitment to that when he visited Wales earlier this month.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between David Jones and Huw Irranca-Davies(12 years, 5 months ago)
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Mr Jones
My hon. Friend is entirely correct. I agree with him, and so do the shadow Secretary of State and the Welsh First Minister. The Government’s plan for growth aims to create the most competitive tax system in the G20 and make the UK the best place in Europe to start, finance and grow a business. That applies to Wales as much as to the rest of the country.
Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)
Does the Minister agree that one of the best ways to incentivise good growth in difficult times is to invest in green jobs and the green economy? What would he say to my constituent Labour Councillor Phil White, ex-Tower colliery, who has put together proposals for investment in 1,500 homes in five of the most deprived areas of Wales using the feed-in tariff scheme by next March? This Government have cut the legs away from under that scheme, so what would the Minister say to my constituent?
Commission on Devolution in Wales
Debate between David Jones and Huw Irranca-Davies(12 years, 6 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)
This has been an important debate and, as it turns out, one that is particularly well timed because the Silk commission will hold its first meeting tomorrow. I am sure right hon. and hon. Members in all parts of the House will wish it well, and that the members of the commission will be grateful for the opportunity to take into account the numerous points that have been made by Members on both sides of the House this afternoon, not only on the commission’s work but on the matters that it should take into consideration when arriving at its conclusions. I am pleased that so many hon. Members were able to contribute to the debate today and make a variety of important points that I am sure the commission will find extremely valuable.
As the Secretary of State pointed out, this is a Government who have delivered for Wales. Despite the doubters and the nay-sayers, we delivered the referendum on primary legislative powers for the Assembly in March and now we are taking that further by delivering on our coalition commitment to establish a commission to consider, first, the question of the financial accountability of the Welsh Government and of the Welsh Assembly, and secondly, the powers of the Assembly, and to recommend modifications to the present constitutional settlement that may enable Welsh devolution to work more effectively within the context of the United Kingdom.
It is timely that the commission should start this work now. The Welsh Government spend some £15 billion of public money each year. They and the Assembly now have considerable powers, which extend to primary law making in the devolved areas. It is widely accepted not only in the Chamber but outside that that level of power should be matched by accountability to the people of Wales for the money that those institutions spend on their behalf. The issue of financial accountability is a hugely important part of the Silk Commission’s remit. Seeking to build consensus around the extent and form of accountability is a challenging aspect of that remit.
The second part of the commission’s task, which will commence towards the end of next year, is also important. By then, Wales will have experienced more than 13 years of devolution. People will have had considerable time to assess whether the suite of powers vested in the Assembly and in the Welsh Government are working as well as they could be in the interests of Wales and, importantly, in the interests of the United Kingdom as a whole. It will be an appropriate time to assess whether modifications to the devolution settlement should at least be considered, so the work of the commission is extremely important. As my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) pointed out, we will need to listen carefully to the views of people across Wales and the United Kingdom and seek to establish a consensus on the way forward. I am sure that Members’ interesting and varied points will be extremely valuable to the commission as it starts its important work.
Huw Irranca-Davies
I am trying to get my head around the idea of the level of financial devolution that will give accountability to the Welsh electorate. In local authorities it is typically up to 20%. Do Ministers envisage such a figure, or 2% or 3%?
Mr Jones
My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has already indicated the levels of fiscal accountability that are devolved in other parts of Europe. Ultimately, these will be matters for the Silk commission, which, as the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) pointed out, will no doubt take into account what prevails in other parts of Europe in arriving at its conclusion, as it should.
In the brief time remaining, I will respond to the various points made. The shadow Secretary of State has explained to me the reasons for his absence, which we fully understand. He was less than enthusiastic about the commission, giving it a “cautious welcome”, which was as cautious as it gets and gave a whole new meaning to “welcome”. Resorting to the oldest rhetorical trick in the book, he set up the straw man of “devo-max”, under which Wales would be responsible for raising all its own revenue. He seemed to suggest that the commission’s recommendations might result in Wales having to raise all its own revenue, as a consequence of which public spending would be halved. I hope that it is unnecessary to point out, but I shall anyway, that the people of Wales should ignore these scare tactics.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between David Jones and Huw Irranca-Davies(13 years, 7 months ago)
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Mr Jones
As I have already indicated, the cost of the police commissioners will not be a penny more than the authorities that they replace. The hon. Gentleman may like to know that I have already held a meeting with the Welsh Local Government Association. I have also seen the letter to which he alludes, and I have passed it on to colleagues in the Home Office. I reiterate that it will not cost a penny more than the police authorities that the commissioners will replace.
Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)
5. What recent discussions she has had with Ministerial colleagues on the future of winter fuel payments to people in Wales.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)
Winter fuel payments provide assurance to older people that they can keep warm during the colder winter months by providing significant help with fuel bills. As announced in the Budget, winter fuel payments will continue to be paid for 2010-11, which will benefit some 680,000 people in approximately 494,000 households in Wales.
Huw Irranca-Davies
I wish to put to the Minister a question that was raised in a meeting of the over-50s group in my constituency last week. The Prime Minister gave assurances about safeguarding benefits for the elderly and the winter fuel payment during the election, but we now hear rumours that the qualifying age may be increasing from 60 to 66, or possibly more, and that the basic winter fuel payment could be cut by £50 for new recipients or £100 for the oldest. What merit should we give to those statements that were made during the election?
Mr Jones
As the hon. Gentleman knows, the coalition agreement makes it clear that the Government intend to protect the winter fuel payment. It is clear that the age at which both men and women get winter fuel payments will move in step with the equalisation in entitlement to the state pension, but I reiterate that the coalition agreement makes it clear that we intend to protect that payment.