Oral Answers to Questions

Edward Miliband Excerpts

Wednesday 11th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly join my hon. Friend in congratulating the company in his constituency on its expansion and on the welcome new jobs it is bringing. It is vital that we rebalance our economy, with greater emphasis on business investment and on exports. Exports to China went up by 20% last year. I shall certainly do everything I can to help to resolve the situation, and I shall be happy to ask a Minister from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to meet my hon. Friend to discuss this issue.

[Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)]

May I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to Captain Tom Jennings from the Royal Marines, Squadron Leader Anthony Downing from the Royal Air Force, Private John King from 1st Battalion the Yorkshire Regiment, and Rifleman Sachin Limbu from 1st Battalion the Royal Gurkha Rifles? All of them showed enormous courage and bravery. They have made sacrifices on our behalf, and our deepest condolences go to their families and friends.

In the autumn statement the Chancellor said that train fares would rise by only 1% above inflation. Can the Prime Minister therefore explain why rail companies this month on some of the busiest commuter routes have increased their fares by up to 11%?

[The Prime Minister]

The power to do that was given to them by the last Labour Government.

[Edward Miliband]

No, Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister is wrong. The last Labour Government stopped them doing that, and this Prime Minister, when he came to office, reversed that policy, which we introduced. That is why the companies are able to rig the fares. That is why someone travelling from Northampton to London will see a rise on the season ticket of more than £300. Will he now stand up to the train companies, get a better deal for commuters and change his policy?

[The Prime Minister]

I know that the right hon. Gentleman has had a difficult start to the year, but I am afraid he has made it worse by getting the facts wrong. Labour, in 2009, allowed fare increases of up to 11%, because they introduced the idea of flexibility of 5% over and above the RPI plus 1% that was the case. What was the case in 2009 is the case today, but the key issue is this: there are only two places that money for railways can come from. It can come from the taxpayer or it can come from the traveller. What really matters is whether we are going to put money into rail investment, and this Government are putting that money in. We are building Crossrail, we are electrifying the Great Western main line, we are electrifying the line between Manchester and Liverpool, we are putting £308 billion into Crossrail, and of course, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport announced yesterday, we are building High Speed 2 as well.

[Edward Miliband]

I am afraid the Prime Minister is just wrong about the facts. The Labour Government saw that train companies were taking advantage of consumers, ripping them off by increasing fares more on the busiest routes, and we stopped it. We took that power away from them. He came to office and brought the power back. He made the wrong decision. And as for his idea that this is all to help the passenger, only last month the National Audit Office warned that the problem was that the money would probably result in increased train operating company profits. I ask the Prime Minister again: will he now go back and reverse his policy?

[The Prime Minister]

We originally set out an RPI plus 3% policy for train fares. We found money in the autumn statement to reduce that to RPI plus 1%, but if the right hon. Gentleman wants to see more money go into our railways—presumably he supports the electrification of the Great Western main line and the railway lines in the north-west—he will be touring the country telling us that he supports these things, but he is never prepared to take difficult decisions in order to support them. It is time—[Interruption.]

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[The Prime Minister]

It is time for the Leader of the Opposition to listen to his shadow Defence Secretary, who wrote very candidly over Christmas:

“There is a difference between populism and popularity”—

and that difference is called credibility. Time to have some, I think.

[Edward Miliband]

Instead of his pre-prepared lines, the right hon. Gentleman should get his facts right about his own policy. He is just wrong. He says that he is continuing the policy of the Labour Government, and he is simply wrong on the facts. The Labour Government saw what the train companies were doing and said that we would put an end to it. The Prime Minister said at the weekend that he wanted to take action against crony capitalism. He has failed at the first hurdle. I ask him for the last time: will he now reverse the policy?

[The Prime Minister]

We are now on to the issue of higher pay. On the issue of the rail fares, let me be absolutely clear. Labour introduced the policy of 5% flexibility. They changed it for one year only—for an election year—but with no intention of making that permanent. If the right hon. Gentleman does not know that, he should. [Interruption.] If he wants to get on to the issue of executive pay, he is entirely right to raise it. Unlike a Government who did nothing—[Interruption.]

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. I well remember—indeed, I will never forget—the time I spent at the Royal Cornwall hospital and the happy days I had there, and it was a great privilege to go back again last year. We have very high standards of nursing care in our country and the overwhelming majority of nurses do a fantastic job, but I do not think that we would be serving our constituents properly if we did not highlight those few cases where it goes wrong, and we have seen in the Care Quality Commission reports that there are areas where it has gone wrong. I think that it is incumbent on the Government to try to remove the bureaucracy that can get in nurses’ way, but it is also important for us to highlight best practice in the best hospitals in our country—I visited an excellent hospital in Salford last week—and say, “Let’s copy that right across the country,” so that we have high standards of care and look after the nutritional needs, indeed all the needs, of vulnerable people in our hospitals.

[Edward Miliband]

I want to ask the Prime Minister about Scotland. We on this side of the House believe that the United Kingdom benefits the people of Scotland and the people of the rest of the United Kingdom in equal measure. We are stronger together and weaker apart. Does he agree that we must make the case for the Union—not simply a case against separatism, but the positive case about the shared benefits to us all of Scotland’s part in the United Kingdom: the shared economic interests, the shared institutions such as the NHS, the defence forces and the BBC, and above all the shared values we hold together?

[The Prime Minister]

I am happy to say that this is an area where the right hon. Gentleman and I will be in 100% agreement. I passionately believe in the future of our United Kingdom, and passionately believe that we are stronger together than we would be by breaking apart. Frankly, I am sad that we are even having this debate, because I support the United Kingdom so strongly, but we have to respect the fact that Scotland voted for a separatist party in the Scottish parliamentary elections, so the first thing that it is right to do is make clear the legal position about a referendum, which is what my right hon. Friend the Scottish Secretary has been doing. We have made the offer to devolve the power to hold that referendum so that it can be made in Scotland and held in Scotland. Frankly, I look forward to having the debate, because I think that too many in the Scottish National party have been happy to talk about the process but do not want to talk about the substance. I sometimes feel when I listen to them that it is not a referendum they want, but a “neverendum”. Let us have the debate, and let us keep our country together.

[Edward Miliband]

May I agree with the Prime Minister? This is not a fight about process between the Westminster Government and the Scottish Government, or between the British Prime Minister and the Scottish First Minister. The way to tackle this issue is to have immediate cross-party talks in Scotland about the timing of the referendum, the nature of the single-question referendum and the vital involvement of the Electoral Commission. Does the Prime Minister also agree with me that we need as soon as possible, as he said, to get beyond process and have that discussion about the substantive issues? This is a momentous decision that our children and grandchildren will have to live with if we get it wrong, so we need a serious, thoughtful and inclusive debate about the choices and the benefits to Scotland of staying in the United Kingdom. On this important issue, the people of our country deserve nothing less than that serious debate about the benefits of the United Kingdom.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is right on those three points. On the process of negotiation, which is very important now, particularly given that the SNP has come out and made more clear what it wants to do, I am very happy for the UK Government and the Westminster Parliament to speak directly to the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament, and let us come to a conclusion about the best time and the best way to hold the referendum. But it must be clear, it must be legal, it must be decisive and it must be fair. Those are the absolute keys. I absolutely agree with the right hon. Gentleman: as soon as those process questions are settled, we need to get on to the substance. [Interruption.] The only point I would make about the timing—[Interruption.] As SNP Members, who cannot seem to keep quiet, are so keen to leave the United Kingdom, I do not quite understand why they want to put off putting the question for so long.