Serious Crime Bill [Lords]

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and Cheryl Gillan

Monday 23rd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

My hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right. He reinforces the position spotted by the commentators at Mandate Now about the drafting of new clause 17. As I say, I want the matter to be non-party political—it should be irrespective of politics—so it would be good if we showed the House doing its best by coming together, with the Government and the Opposition working together on the guidelines for the consultation and getting them out as soon as possible.

Mandate Now’s membership base is 114 survivor charities in England, eight in Scotland and 10 in Wales, so there is a substantial body of opinion behind its views. I very much hope that both Front Benchers will take them seriously and not force us through the Lobby against new clause 17. I believe in the concept, but I cannot vote for the new clause because of its quite obvious flaws.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

About an hour ago, Mr Speaker, you expressed your pleasant surprise at the Solicitor-General’s brevity, and I hope that I do not revert to type. I, too, shall keep my remarks short.

I welcome new clauses 8 to 10, which relate to the language applied to young children who are victims of sexual exploitation in the FGM provisions and so on. I am fully in sympathy with the very powerful speech made by the hon. Member for Stone (Sir William Cash). I support new clause 2, and the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) also made a powerful speech.

The provisions in part 5 relating to the new offence of child cruelty are of fundamental importance and should be welcomed. The new offence balances both physical and psychological harm, because psychological abuse can have such a debilitating impact on children. However, my new clause 11 reflects my concern, and that of organisations such as the Children’s Society, that the Government have not taken the opportunity presented by the Bill to offer protection to 16 and 17-year-olds at risk of cruelty and neglect. After all, the United Nations convention on the rights of the child and the Children Act 1989 both define a child as a person under 18. In Committee, I sought to amend the Bill by redefining a child as a person under 18, and I made the case for extending the legislation on child abduction to 16 and 17-year-olds. Unfortunately, I was unable to persuade the Committee of the merits of my amendments, so I withdrew them. My intention in retabling them today is to highlight the issue once more.

New clause 11 would amend the Children’s Act 1933 by inserting a new section on cruelty to a person aged 16 or 17. The new section would ensure that anyone aged 18 or over who wilfully assaulted, ill-treated, neglected, abandoned or injured a 16 or 17-year-old would be guilty of an offence. Crucially, the new clause acknowledges that ill treatment can be both physical and psychological.

Stalking

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 21st November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Llwyd]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. In fact, the all-party group is currently working on ensuring that we have a code of conduct and a means of disseminating information on identifying when those offences start and nipping them in the bud. The right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham has said on several occasions that she wishes to see not only MPs covered, but our staff, and she is right.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

I pay tribute to the right hon. Gentleman for his pioneering work in this area, but does he agree that the purpose of having an all-party group on stalking and harassment is to ensure that we get information right across the board to all parliamentarians in both Houses and, through them, to their staff and the people beyond, because it is true that we often experience that, or constituents who have experienced it come to see us in our surgeries? We need to be able to help our own people as well as our constituents who come to us.

[Mr Llwyd]

The right hon. Lady is absolutely correct and I agree with every word she has said. The group’s strength is the fact that it is all-party, so Politics—with a capital P—plays no part in our deliberations.

The reason that stalking is hard to delineate is that it consists of a catalogue of incidents that, when taken alone, can seem innocuous enough to begin with. It is only when they are taken together that their cumulative and sinister effect can be seen. In many stalking cases the perpetrator will never issue an overt threat, but rather plagues his or her victim with flowers, phone calls, letters and gifts. It is thought that victims tend to wait until the 100th incident of stalking before reporting the matter to the police.

The advent of the internet also provides perpetrators with far greater opportunities to attack their victims—for example, on social media websites such as Twitter and Ask.fm and on online forums. Individuals can shield their true identity by adopting pseudonyms and hiding their IP address. More and more, the phenomenon of internet trolling is becoming an issue of concern. Multiple individuals can target a victim by sending them abusive messages, sometimes hundreds at a time. The recent examples involving Caroline Criado-Perez and the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) are cases in point.

Welsh Affairs

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 1st March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I shall follow that, Mr Deputy Speaker. I suspect the white wine concerned had not been in the hand of the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies) for long enough to get warm.

I was there last night and it was a splendid occasion, but to be honest, colleagues from other parties should have been there. There were very few Labour Members, which may have been a mistake—[Interruption.] I was pleased to be there, but I am just making that point. The right hon. Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy), an ex-Secretary of State for Wales, was not there, for example. In any event, I do not want to be boorish, and I have obviously bumped myself off next year’s guest list. Mr Deputy Speaker was there—[Hon. Members: “He wasn’t!”] Just to make absolutely sure that I am bumped off the list for next year, I think the St David’s day event could have had something to do with current politics. I hear rumours of a Rabbie Burns fortnight next year.

I congratulate my friend, the right hon. Member for Torfaen, and the hon. Members for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) and for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies), on their assiduous pursuit of today’s parliamentary time. The St David’s day debate should be in Government time, as it always was prior to the Backbench Business Committee coming into being. I know that there is sympathy on the Committee for the proposal to take a day out of its basket to be allocated by the Government for that purpose. That is entirely appropriate, especially because we are likely to have fewer Welsh Members of Parliament, which was mentioned by my friend, the right hon. Member for Torfaen.

[Mrs Gillan]

The right hon. Gentleman will know how bitterly disappointed I was last year when I found out that the St David’s day debate had been passed over to the Committee, which refused a debate despite requests from both sides of the House, including Front Benchers, who are of course not allowed to request debates. I am doubly pleased that we have at least a half-day debate today, but I join him in hoping that there is a way of removing that day from the Committee so that there is always a dedicated St David’s day debate. Because of how the House’s business has fallen, there are fewer opportunities to discuss Welsh matters on the Floor of the House. That is why I called a whole day’s debate on the Silk commission, which is so important for Welsh matters. I support the right hon. Gentleman and look forward to getting more details.

[Mr Llwyd]

I am very grateful to the right hon. Lady for her support. I am sure she is quite sincere. I remember the disappointment we all felt last year that the case was in some way not made for a Welsh day debate. I hope somebody somewhere reads the Hansard of today’s debate. There is sympathy on the Committee, so let us hope that Government Whips take that on board.

The right hon. Member for Torfaen has discussed his concerns about constitutional matters in Wales. He and I agree on many, many things, but it is fair to say that we do not always see eye to eye on constitutional matters, and he would not expect me to say otherwise. I respect his opinion, although we may diverge substantially on where we see the constitution going. However, it is right that we both agreed that the cuts in the number of Welsh seats was inappropriate and went much too far at this time. Frankly, I thought that a number in accordance with the Speaker’s Conference of 1944 would have been appropriate this time around—in other words, 45.

Commission on Devolution in Wales

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 3rd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

That is a very constructive intervention, and in my experience the system does work exceedingly well in some instances, but that will be a matter for the commission to consider, and it will want to look at examples of what is working well and what needs adjustment.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

rose—

[Mrs Gillan]

I will give way to the right hon. Gentleman, then I must make some progress.

[Mr Llwyd]

Further to the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) made, the right hon. Lady will be aware that in the most recent referendum the majorities along the border in favour of further devolution were very high, apart from in Monmouth.

[Mrs Gillan]

The right hon. Gentleman will be very pleased, therefore, that the Assembly now has primary legislative powers, and I am sure that he will be spending a lot of his time constructively trying to encourage the Welsh Government to come forward with some legislation, because it is now many months since the election, and correct me if I am wrong—I see the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) and the hon. Members for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) and for Arfon (Hywel Williams) nodding their heads—but we have not yet seen any draft legislation from the Welsh Government, even though they were well prepared in advance of the referendum.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

10. What recent representations she has received on the proposed Calman-style commission for Wales; and if she will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan)]

Yesterday I announced in a written ministerial statement to the House the terms of reference and membership of the commission on devolution in Wales, the Silk commission. The commission will review the present financial and constitutional arrangements in Wales. It will look first at the financial accountability of the National Assembly for Wales and the Welsh Government and will aim to report in the autumn of next year. Following that, the commission will examine the current constitutional arrangements and will report in 2013.

[Mrs Gillan]

Mrs Bone, I am sure, is absolutely right when she says that the economy of this country was left in a complete mess by that lot over there on the Opposition Benches—but my hon. Friend has asked a fairly complex question about the Barnett formula. The Barnett formula is not being examined by the Silk commission; it is the subject of bilateral communications involving the Treasury and the devolved Administration Governments, because it is a matter that concerns the whole of the UK. The Silk commission is focused on matters affecting Wales directly.

[Mr Llwyd]

I very much welcome yesterday’s announcement on the commission on devolution in Wales. That was a commitment of the coalition Government in Wales. Why are the Holtham recommendations specifically not being considered by the commission? If all those recommendations are going to be dismissed there will be difficulty in ensuring cross-party support, which is very important for the commission.

[Mrs Gillan]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving me the opportunity to correct him, because I think he has misunderstood the terms of reference, which were agreed across all four parties. I am delighted to see his party taking part in the work of the Silk commission. What the Silk commission will be looking at is the second part of the Holtham report, which I know the First Minister is not keen on because it is about taxation powers. What is excluded is merely the Barnett formula and something called the “Holtham floor”, which is part of the subject of the bilateral communications. May I reassure the right hon. Gentleman that I want to move forward, if I can, on the basis of consensus? I am delighted that his party has worked with me on the commission so far.

[Mr Llwyd]

As the right hon. Lady says that the report will be produced in 2013, will she ensure that there will be a provisional legislative slot if the commission says that some legislative changes are necessary within this Parliament?

[Mrs Gillan]

The right hon. Gentleman has enough experience of legislation in this House to know that that is not something I can commit to, but let me tell him that the report will come in two parts. The first report will, we hope, come at the end of 2012, and the later report on the shape of powers between the UK Government and the Welsh Government will come towards the end of 2013. I will bear in mind what he has said.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 29th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that question. [Hon. Members: “No, you’re not.”] Despite the laughter from the Opposition, I am grateful to him. However, I cannot be drawn on this, and as I answered straightforwardly, we are not ruling it in or out at this stage. I want to have those discussions with the First Minister and other colleagues for the simple reason that many commentators, including the First Minister, are unsure of exactly what powers the Welsh Government would like to have.

As with the Calman process, it is right that we try to reach consensus on this and move forward. It is far too important a matter to be rushed or dealt with in a cavalier fashion.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Very important though borrowing powers are, would the right hon. Lady assure the House that the remit of the Calman-style commission will be far broader than matters financial, given the excellent work already carried out by the Holtham commission?

[Mrs Gillan]

I am committed to establishing a process for the Assembly that is similar to that set out by the Calman commission. I have made it clear that we intend to review the financing arrangements for Welsh devolution. I must repeat, however, that I think that this matter is far too important to Wales, and far too important a subject matter, to be rushed or not to be discussed fully. I am seeing the First Minister on Monday to take forward our discussions and I do not want to pre-empt them by setting any parameters.

[Mr Llwyd]

No doubt the right hon. Lady would not wish to pre-empt any decision, but in a co-operative spirit, may I suggest that matters administrative and constitutional should be considered? I am thinking of the possibility of devolving police and justice powers to Wales, for which there is a huge amount of support throughout Wales. On the vital issue of broadcasting, it is high time that Wales had control of its own broadcasting; S4C would not be in its current position if there were such control.

[Mrs Gillan]

The right hon. Gentleman is trying to lay out his own manifesto and his party’s position with clarity, but that is not how we want to take matters forward. May I make it clear that I know how important S4C is to the Welsh language and culture? We have reached an arrangement on it, and I assure him that I will always look to the interests of S4C because I know how important a part it is of Wales’s culture.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 11th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

As the hon. Gentleman will know, we identified electrification of the valley lines as a key priority as part of the development of the business case for electrification. As he will also know, I have said that I stand ready to work with the new Welsh Assembly Government and the Department for Transport to facilitate the electrification of those lines. I shall certainly examine the case for electrification of the Ebbw Vale line, which he has made to me before.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

9. What recent representations she has received from tourism operators in Wales on Government financing for tourism promotion.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 2nd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

My hon. Friend is right. I have already met First Great Western on that very subject, and I will continue to hold meetings. We appreciate that we are talking about a crucial project but, as my hon. Friend knows, the last Government had 13 years, and all they came up with was a cheap promise and no funding to back it up.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Will the Secretary of State please confirm that it is entirely Westminster’s responsibility to maintain and develop the south Wales line?

[Mrs Gillan]

I am sure I do not have to tell the hon. Gentleman what is devolved and what is not. He knows that the electrification of the main line is Westminster’s responsibility. However, let me remind him that there are also important improvements that could be made to the diversionary lines and the Cardiff valleys network. That is the responsibility of the devolved Administration, yet we have not seen any progress on that front.

[Mr Llwyd]

Is the right hon. Lady aware that the cost-benefit analysis for electrification of the south Wales line is far better than that for Crossrail? However, whereas Crossrail, at £16 billion, is going apace, nothing has happened for the past nine months on this vital issue for the south Wales line.

[Mrs Gillan]

I remind the hon. Gentleman that plenty has happened in regard to this vital issue, but this is not a decision that can be taken overnight. The previous Government were very happy to make uncosted promises about this routing, but this is not a simple process. A range of factors must be thoroughly considered and, to that end, the Wales Office has been working not only with the Department for Transport but with the Welsh Assembly Government, and I remain optimistic about a good outcome.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 8th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

11. Whether she has discussed with the Secretary of State for Transport the electrification of the London to south Wales railway line; and if she will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan)]

I have had, and continue to have, discussions with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport about that matter. We have already announced £7 billion of rail infrastructure improvements that will reduce journey times to Cardiff by 15 minutes. The next step is to work with the Welsh Assembly Government on the business case for further electrification. I have recently spoken to both the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to agree how best to take that forward.

[Mr Llwyd]

People in Wales will be very disappointed by such a response. Network Rail has allocated no expenditure whatsoever to Wales for the next 12 months. Does the right hon. Lady realise how vital that is to the Welsh economy?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Llwyd]

The assurances that the right hon. Lady gives that she will fight her corner for Wales are becoming rather empty—a bit like the situation with tuition fees and the Lib Dems.

[Mrs Gillan]

It is unusual for the hon. Gentleman to be quite so sour. As he knows, the Department for Transport is considering new inter-city rolling stock to replace the existing InterCity 125s. The two options that remain under consideration are the revised bid from Agility Trains for a mixed fleet of some all-electric trains, and a proposal for a fleet of new all-electric trains that could be coupled to new diesel locomotives. He knows the decision is complex and I reassure him that I am working with the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister on the business case. My officials are constantly in touch with the Department for Transport. We need to take our time and get this decision right for Wales.