Iran

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Monday 20th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid]

rose—

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

rose—

[Mr Hague]

I will discuss that before concluding my remarks, but I will give way to each of my hon. Friends.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

Given all that my right hon. Friend has said, especially on the unanimity on the six UN resolutions, was he as disturbed as I was at reports in today’s press that some of our friends and allies are engaging in barter deals to weaken the unprecedented sanctions to which he and the E3 plus 3 have agreed?

--- Later in debate ---

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

I felt like intervening on the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) to give him a fourth minute of extra time, but I restrained myself. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron) on securing the debate, but that is as far as I can go, because I disagree with almost every word he said. I strongly agree with my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Kensington (Sir Malcolm Rifkind), who moved the amendment. We need to be very careful about how the tone of the debate comes across and ensure that it is not bellicose. I agree with almost everything he said, with one exception: I think that any military intervention in Iran would not be a short-term matter and would become a longer-term matter, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas Soames), who is no longer in his seat, made clear.

Having said that, the Iranians—the Persians—are a proud nation with a very ancient history. They have a very educated middle class, and I doubt very much that they approve of what the Iranian leadership is doing. Nevertheless, they do have such a leadership. There will be elections on 22 March for the legislative assembly and next year for the presidency. As has been said, President Ahmadinejad cannot stand again, so there will inevitably be a change of regime. As we heard from the former Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw), a change of regime can bring about a change of policy, so we do not know what will follow in Iran when President Ahmadinejad retires. We do know that Iran has defied six UN Security Council resolutions. President Ahmadinejad recently said that he will secure an important nuclear achievement, and we know that he is trying to achieve the 20% threshold. I appreciate the semantics my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay used, but I am in no doubt that the regime is trying to acquire the capability to produce nuclear weapons. If it manages to acquire that capability, I am pretty certain that it will use it. I do not think that we disagree thus far.

I am sorry that the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) is no longer here, because in the debate in this House on 24 September 2002 on whether to go to war with Iraq I said that I doubted whether the dodgy dossier was true and whether there were any weapons of mass destruction. I went on to say that if we weakened Iraq we would have problems with Iran, and that is exactly what we are seeing today—Iranian interference in Iraq on a huge scale. It is trying to destabilise the schools, and I doubt whether President Maliki can do very much without authorisation from his Iranian paymasters.

[Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con)]

indicated assent.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

As my hon. Friend, who is often spot on, will know, Iraq is virtually a proxy state of Iran. That is a hugely important step for the world, because both countries combined have 19% of the world’s proven oil reserves, so instability in the region will lead to a real problem. That compares with a figure of about 7% in Kuwait and about 2% in the United Arab Emirates. To put it into context, the figure for the proven oil reserve in the hands of Iran and Iraq is very significant indeed.

The Iranian regime not only promotes instability and terror in its own country—the example was given of five executions only last night—but is one of the greatest exporters of terror around the world. I have always been a supporter of Israel, but I would shudder to live in Israel today, with Hezbollah from the Syrian state and Hamas from the Palestinian state. The Israelis are in a very difficult position. If war were to break out in Iran, I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex that the proxies in the region, such as Hezbollah and Hamas, would become even more active than they are at present.

I agreed with my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary when he said at the weekend that Iran acquiring nuclear weapons could trigger an arms race in the middle east. One or two Members have disputed that, but we should look at history and the example of Pakistan and India. The moment one got nuclear capability, the other had to have it. If Iran acquires a nuclear capability, Saudi Arabia will probably do so, the Syrian regime, if it survives, will certainly want to, and perhaps other states in the middle east will, too.

[Mr Baron]

Given that Israel’s acquiring nuclear weapons has not led to its Arab neighbours acquiring them, why does my hon. Friend believe that Iran’s Muslim neighbours would have a greater urgency to do so?

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

I knew somebody was going to make that point to me, so I anticipated it. Of course Israel has a nuclear capability, although it has never acknowledged it, but the difference between Israel and Iran is that Israel is a stable democracy and Iran is an unpredictable country—under its current regime. That is not to say that under a future regime it will not change, but under its current regime I should not predict the circumstances in which it might or might not use such nuclear capability.

The whole essence of the cold war—Russia, America, Britain, France—was that none of us dared use nuclear weapons even if we had the inclination, which I am sure we never did, because we knew the destruction that they would cause, having seen it in Japan during the second world war. It is a huge thing to press the nuclear button, so, despite my hon. Friend disagreeing with me, I think that we have to be very careful about reaching such a situation with Iran.

The other point that I wish to make, in the rapidly shrinking time that I have this evening, is that I wholly support the efforts of my right hon. Friends in the coalition to bring about a diplomatic solution. That solution has to be backed up with sanctions, and I wholly believe that we must have the military option available to us when we go into the diplomatic negotiating chamber. I profoundly disagree with my hon. Friend and the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd, because if we rule out that option before we have even completed diplomatic negotiations we will be in a considerably weaker position.

Of those three legs to the stool, we need to concentrate on sanctions, and the greatest role that the British Foreign Office—our Government, our Ministers—can play is to get some of our allies on side: to get Russia, China, Turkey and India all on side to make those sanctions effective. If the reports in the newspapers today are to be believed, and Turkey, China and India are participating in barter deals to get around our banking sanctions, that very considerably weakens them. I hope that my hon. Friends on the Front Bench take that point well and truly on board.

This country has always been very good at soft power. Our diplomatic service has always been the best and our British Council has always been the best, but in this situation one of the greatest contributions we can make to resolving the problem without the necessity of going to war—I cannot stress enough that I do not advocate war, which is the last thing we want to see—is, as the right hon. Member for Coventry North East (Mr Ainsworth) said, to look very carefully at the BBC World Service. The BBC’s Farsi service can contribute a huge amount to the situation, and we should go the extra mile to ensure that it is not jammed, that we do not cut the service and that we broadcast the optimum number of hours on shortwave, over the internet and on television, for those middle class people in—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order.

Oral Answers to Questions

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Browne]

That precise point will be central to the Foreign Secretary’s talks with the Brazilian Foreign Secretary in Brasilia tomorrow, but as an illustration of the seriousness with which we treat this relationship, let me tell the House that last year there were 14 ministerial visits to Brazil, whereas in the previous three years combined there were just 10 ministerial visits. So we are affording Brazil four times the amount of ministerial attention that the previous Government did.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that our trade at £5.2 billion in 2010 offers scope for considerable increase? What more can his Department do, particularly through UK Trade & Investment, to forge better links with the Brazilians in order to increase that trade?

[Mr Browne]

I agree with my hon. Friend’s point. The economies of Latin America and Asia are growing fast and becoming increasingly important, which is why the British Government are determined to double trade with Brazil in the lifetime of this Parliament and why we are expanding the network of diplomatic and trade staff across Brazil, including opening a new consulate-general in the north-east of the country in November.

Council of Europe (UK Chairmanship)

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Thursday 27th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the matter of the UK’s Chairmanship of the Council of Europe.

Mr Speaker, you will already have seen that debates on European matters are a bit like buses: you wait for ages and then two of these delightful treats come along in the same week. I am particularly grateful for the fortunate coincidence of timing in that this debate on the Council of Europe arrives the week after the final collapse of the Gaddafi regime in Libya, because that provides a point of reflection and of comparison between what happens in so much of the world and what has happened in our own continent. The long rule by Gaddafi based on state-sponsored violence and terror throws into sharp relief, in particular, those liberties on which the British people have relied for centuries.

Whatever view Members in any part of the House take on particular laws or on how human rights should be given effect here, I think we would all stand united on the continuing need for and relevance of fundamental human rights such as protection from torture, and the right to free speech, assembly and worship. That tradition in this country of respect for human rights is one reason why we are very proud to be taking on the chairmanship of the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe.

I acknowledge that there are in the House today members of the United Kingdom’s delegation to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, from the Conservative, Liberal Democrat and Labour parties, and I pay tribute to the work that they do on behalf of the House and the country, and welcome the fact that they will be able to contribute the fruits of their experience during this afternoon’s proceedings.

As I hope Members will recall, the Council is the international organisation that helps promote human rights, democracy and the rule of law across the European continent. The United Kingdom was one of the founders of the organisation. Since its founding treaty was signed in this building in London in 1949, its membership has grown from 10 countries to 47, encompassing virtually the entire European continent. I think we in the United Kingdom can take pride in the fact that so many other European countries profess a belief in the importance of these fundamental principles, and also recognise the fact that membership of the Council of Europe and subscription to the European convention on human rights have proved a valuable framework within which the emerging democracies of central and eastern Europe have been able to measure their own political development over the past 20 years.

I want this afternoon to advance the case for the central priority of the United Kingdom’s chairmanship: reform of the European Court of Human Rights. I want to say straight away that we have had, and I am sure will have, lively domestic discussions on human rights, and Members will not always agree, but we share the historic respect for the achievement of the convention. The Government’s priority is to ensure that the European Court of Human Rights works more effectively and focuses on cases that actually need to be dealt with at the European level. That needs to happen not to weaken rights, but to strengthen them, and by so doing, to advance the rule of law, democracy and freedom.

The United Kingdom was one of the principal architects of the European convention on human rights, which is the Council of Europe’s best known instrument. The convention embodies many of the basic rights and freedoms that have been fundamental to English, and then British, law for centuries: fair trial, freedom from torture and freedom of speech. Those are rights that we have enjoyed for hundreds of years.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

While my right hon. Friend is talking about the European Court of Human Rights, will he acknowledge that the Court currently has a backlog of approximately 166,000 cases? Is it not high time the Court underwent a thorough review of its working practices and competences, and is not our chairmanship of the Council a good time to do that?

[Mr Lidington]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. If the Court is to continue to be treated with respect, it is important for it to find a way of getting on top of that grotesque backlog of cases, which is in nobody’s interests. I will say more about that later.

Oral Answers to Questions

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Tuesday 19th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

The issue of drones is principally a matter for the United States and Pakistan. As far as the United Kingdom is concerned, we expect any conduct in a conflict to adhere to international law, including international humanitarian law. I had an opportunity to discuss matters concerning Pakistan and Afghanistan yesterday with Marc Grossman, the US special envoy, and will be meeting the Pakistani Prime Minister Mr Gillani later today. Drone strikes can be exceptionally important in targeting those who have deliberately targeted others, and the hon. Gentleman and the House will be well aware of the number of civilian deaths in Afghanistan caused by terrorists over the past year and the importance of drone strikes in eliminating key targets who cause such damage to so many people.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

Following the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Richard Ottaway), given the importance of Pakistan as a front-line state, particularly in relation to Afghanistan, what real help can Britain give, as a strong ally of both Pakistan and the United States, to improve the relationship?

[Alistair Burt]

My hon. Friend is right that it is a very important relationship, and that it is difficult at the moment, but he is right also to highlight the fact that there is a much closer relationship between Pakistan and the United States on political reconciliation and the political track that needs to be followed in Afghanistan. We see ourselves as a key encourager of that relationship, as well as following the political track ourselves. We work very closely with both countries. As I indicated, there are elements of that relationship that are good and strong and can be built on.

Oral Answers to Questions

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Tuesday 14th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

This is another example of the appalling human rights record of the Iranian Government. Either I or one of my ministerial colleagues will meet the hon. Gentleman, if that is acceptable to him. Iran’s human rights record has deteriorated steadily, even throughout this year. There are more journalists in prison in Iran than in any other country. The two leading opposition leaders have been detained. It is an appalling record of human rights abuse and the hon. Gentleman gives just another one of those instances.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

T8. Will my right hon. Friend comment on the worrying situation in South Sudan and the considerable increase in violence in the disputed states of Abyei, South Kordofan and Unity, which are of course the subject of talks today in Addis Ababa between the Presidents of north and South Sudan, the former President of South Africa and the President of Ethiopia?

[Mr Bellingham]

I certainly share my hon. Friend’s concern. That is why we have called on all parties to end this violence, to respect their humanitarian responsibilities and to allow access to urgently needed international assistance. It is essential they take action and do so immediately.

Middle East and North Africa

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Tuesday 26th April 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

We have made those representations all the time. I went to Yemen and saw President Saleh at the beginning of February to urge him to come to an agreement with the opposition parties, which he seems to have done in the past 24 hours, thanks to the mediation of the GCC countries, so we have been very heavily involved in that. Our ambassador in Sana’a has been particularly heavily involved on a daily basis for many weeks with both the Government there and the opposition, and the British Government have been heavily involved.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend take this opportunity to remind the Assad regime that ordering the army’s tanks to slaughter its own people is completely unacceptable, that it will have repercussions for Syria’s international relations for years to come, that it may well be a war crime, and that it will undoubtedly lead to sanctions?

[Mr Hague]

Yes, I will. On top of that, such actions will not even bring longer-term security to the regime itself, so it is a thoroughly bad idea.

Oral Answers to Questions

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Tuesday 1st February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Bellingham]

Since the coalition Government came to power, the Navy have not apprehended any pirates and simply sent them on their way. That happened a bit in the past, but it does not happen under this Government. We take the whole issue of piracy incredibly seriously, but it is absolutely vital that we build regional capacity to detain, try and imprison the pirates.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend might be aware that I was lucky enough to be able to witness the end of the referendum in south Sudan the other day, and to witness the jubilation of the people there. Nevertheless, there is huge corruption, very little infrastructure and very few skills to run a Government in that country. What role can the UK Government and the international community play in helping to form a new Government in south Sudan, if that is what the people have voted for?

[Mr Hague]

I think we have a major role to play, and so do many other nations throughout the world with extensive development budgets. It will be a huge task to create the institutions for a functioning new state in the south of Sudan, but we will be there to assist with that through a diplomatic presence, a development programme and the provision of expertise, so the south Sudanese will find in the United Kingdom and in many other nations people who are ready and willing to help.

Egypt

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Monday 31st January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

It is not for the United Kingdom Government to dictate who might be part of political settlements in any country. I am sure that it is true that the trade union movement in Egypt has a part to play, but that is a matter for the Egyptian people to decide.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

As the House must be aware, Egypt is a highly important partner in the context of stability, not only in the middle east peace process but in the wider middle east through the Suez canal and into north Africa. Will my hon. Friend undertake to do all that he can to ensure a peaceful transition by ensuring a peaceful press, a peaceful judiciary and a transition to full, fair and open presidential elections later this year?

[Alistair Burt]

In mentioning the press, the judiciary and the democratic process of free and fair elections, my hon. Friend has put his finger on three of the essential items that make a country stable. They are all immensely important, no matter what difficult pains may be involved in that democratic process. I have no doubt that the Egyptian authorities will be well apprised of them, and I hope that they will be part of the process over the coming weeks and months.

BBC World Service

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

None of us who are conscious of history can preside over a Government heading towards the bankruptcy of this country, and that is why we have to have spending restraint across the public sector. I stress that, as I said in my initial answer to the right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane), there is a viable and strong future for the BBC World Service. The right place for it is with the BBC itself, which has taken it on with enthusiasm. It is wrong to pretend that there should never be any changes or reductions, and of course we have to ensure that we live within our means in this country. These changes are part of doing that.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend accept that the BBC World Service, along with the British Council, has a huge world reputation in exchanging views and knowledge from the western world? Does he accept also that it is not just the number of people who receive a service that counts? It is precisely the minorities in difficult parts of the world who need truth and independent advice.

[Mr Hague]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and that was one reason why I was anxious to avoid a larger scale of language service closures than those to which I have agreed. We have limited them to five language services, along with other changes to the BBC World Service, partly because of the reason he gives.

Gaza Flotilla

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Again, the right hon. Lady illustrates the strength of feeling in the House. I have not immediately donned my hobnail boots, because the right way to approach the matter, which will make sense to people in Israel as well as to the rest of the world, is to advocate the measures that I have called for today. That is a crucial ingredient for Israelis themselves to see—that this needs to be properly investigated to international standards in a way that the international community can respect and take seriously, and that the blockade of Gaza makes no sense even from their own point of view. Israel is a democratic country. It is possible to make these arguments and to have them heard there, so I favour concentrating on that method of proceeding rather than the hobnail boots that she wants me to put on.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend has made it quite clear this afternoon that he thinks that the blockade is counter-productive because of the suffering that it causes to the people of Gaza. Will he therefore press the international community to lift the blockade as a precursor to a full middle east peace settlement?