Regional Pay

Jack Dromey Excerpts

Wednesday 20th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Alison Seabeck]

No, I am afraid that I cannot. Perhaps one of the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues will allow him to intervene on them later.

In his autumn statement, the Chancellor talked about private sector pay being set in accordance with local labour markets. That is not true. As my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood) has just pointed out, some of the most successful companies in the country, including large retailers, banks and telecoms companies, use similar national pay structures.

There is genuine concern among businesses in my constituency that any decision to cap or lower public sector pay will lead to problems for them, in that there will be less demand for their goods and services as families pull in their horns.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Alison Seabeck]

I am afraid not; my hon. Friend has only just arrived in the Chamber.

A representative of one business has commented to me:

“As I see it, the lot in power have proved that they don’t get reality.”

Because the south-west is very beautiful, we have a large number of second homes. They push the cost of housing up to levels on a par with those in the south-east, but our salaries are lower and so the mortgage multiplier for our potential homeowners is astronomical. That can be crippling for people desperate for a home; the effect is felt not only in Plymouth but in the rural south-west. That point was well made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw).

In the South Hams, the house price to income ratio is around 17:1. In the Cotswolds, it is even higher, at closer to 19:1, and those figures were taken at the depth of the recession in 2010. We should remember that many of the public sector workers who work in Plymouth and Exeter live in areas such as the South Hams. They might have struggled to get a mortgage on their dream home in better times, and they will be disproportionately hit by this Government’s proposals on regional pay. The housing market will not allow them to sell their home and move—I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey) was going to make this point— particularly when new affordable homes are not being built. What are those people to do, when their pay is either cut or frozen and meeting their mortgage payments becomes increasingly difficult? They will stop spending in local shops, hotels and pubs, and on entertainment. That will provide a direct hit on the local economy.

This was a complex matter for the NHS to consider all those years ago, and I urge the Government to be aware of the complexity of boundaries and of the additional costs involved in the work required to ensure that the proposal is consistent and does not lead to poaching or leapfrogging. They are on a hiding to nothing on this one; it will create anomalies and provide yet another example of their incompetence. Every time this happens, however, it is not the Chancellor or the Paymaster General and his mates who are affected, but low-paid working people such as teachers, nurses and midwives.

Ministerial Code (Culture Secretary)

Jack Dromey Excerpts

Monday 30th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right. I do not want in any way to belittle what the Cabinet Secretary, a former civil servant or Sir Alex Allan are capable of in terms of proper inquiries, because this has happened in the past; it happened with my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox). It so happens that the process that we are currently engaged in—the Leveson inquiry—is many times more robust in getting to the facts of the case. Once we have the facts, and if they throw up any extra information, the situation in terms of the ministerial code has not changed.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

Does the Prime Minister agree that if market-sensitive information was passed to News International in advance of an announcement being made, that would not only be a breach of the code but illegal?

[The Prime Minister]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that a very serious accusation has been made about what the special adviser did and the information that has been passed, and that does need to be properly investigated.

Public Disorder

Jack Dromey Excerpts

Thursday 11th August 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly pay tribute to the Lancashire force and to other forces who acted quickly under the PNICC system to make forces available in London, Manchester or the west midlands where they were most needed.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

Following the tragic killing of three young men in Birmingham, the city faced its most dangerous moment in a decade. Will the Prime Minister join me in paying tribute to our brave police, under the inspirational leadership of Chief Constable Chris Sims, and all that is best in our community, Tarik Jahan and my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood), who acted to hold the community together so that Birmingham could say with one voice, “We will not be divided”?

[The Prime Minister]

I agree wholeheartedly with the hon. Gentleman. I was extremely impressed when I went to the West Midlands control centre and saw that Chris Sims was spending as much of his time on meeting and talking with community leaders and representatives as he was on planning to ensure that there were the right number of police on the streets throughout the west midlands. It was very impressive. It showed the community coming together. Birmingham city council played a big role as well, and I pay tribute to all those who did a model job.

Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Jack Dromey Excerpts

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The exchanges will not continue until we have order. It is pretty straightforward.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

To hire the hackers of Milly Dowler meant either that Andy Coulson was guilty of being complicit in a corrupt culture, or that he presided over acts of pure evil. What were the warnings given to the Prime Minister by the Deputy Prime Minister and Lord Ashdown not to appoint Andy Coulson, and why did he ignore those warnings?

[The Prime Minister]

We do still have in this country the idea that you are innocent until you are proven guilty. Now, as I have said, I hired Andy Coulson on the basis of assurances that he gave me that he did not know about hacking. After all, that is why he resigned as editor of the News of the World. And incidentally, after he resigned, who was the very first person to ring him up and wish him well? Any guesses? Gordon Brown.

Phone Hacking

Jack Dromey Excerpts

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend raises a very good point, because “media” now encompasses such a wide range of things. That is one of the reasons why I think it is necessary to consult briefly on this change to the ministerial code before we introduce it, because I want to make sure that we do it in a way that is clear and works well.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

An outraged public demand action and expect leadership in the public interest. At every stage, the Prime Minister has been slow to act. Does he agree that Rupert Murdoch is not a fit and proper person? Given that we now know that Lord Ashdown warned the Prime Minister not to appoint Andy Coulson, does he have any regrets about appointing somebody who was clearly not a fit and proper person?

[The Prime Minister]

The point I would make is that in government you are not just making speeches; you have got to make decisions and you have got to get it right. You have got to make sure the terms of reference are right, make sure the inquiry is right, find the judge, appoint the panel, work out how to be transparent and how to amend the ministerial code. It is not just about saying things; it is about doing things. Of course it takes time to get these things right when this enormous firestorm is going on, but I think that we have taken some major steps forward that will make a big difference. On the “fit and proper” test, that is a matter for Ofcom. We must not get into a situation where the Prime Minister or the Leader of the Opposition is pointing a finger and making a particular point about a particular person—that is Ofcom’s role. As for the other question, I think that I answered it in full.

Public Bodies Bill [Lords]

Jack Dromey Excerpts

Tuesday 12th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

In that great hymn to England, “Jerusalem”, we celebrate our “green and pleasant land”, and our England is indeed a country characterised by a beautiful coast and countryside, from the craggy cliffs of Cornwall through the heart of England to Hadrian’s wall. Although we celebrate it, that beauty historically concealed an ugly reality of rural poverty, of exploitation of farm workers and of an industry—agriculture—that is the most dangerous in Britain. At its most obscene, there is the modern-day slavery practised by ruthless gangmasters.

Labour is a friend of our countryside. That is why we fought to defend our forests and why we amended the Localism Bill to protect our national heritage. We believe in a fair deal for our countryside. That is why we have supported the work of the Rural Advocate. We believe in fairness in the countryside—fair treatment for the backbone of the rural economy, the farm workers and those who work for gangmasters.

For a hundred years agricultural workers fought against exploitation, then in 1948 we saw the establishment of the Agricultural Wages Board. It has set standards in the industry for 60 years and more on pay, sick pay, overtime, bereavement leave, protection for under-16s, apprenticeships and accommodation, and it has evolved to meet the modern methods of agriculture with a system of six grades. They are settled and sensible arrangements, covering 140,000 workers in the countryside and ensuring both fairness and fair competition. It is an historic institution that not even Mrs Thatcher dared to abolish, but now that vital voice is to be silenced. Inevitably, that will be followed by a race to the bottom in the countryside.

A second vital voice is to be silenced. The Rural Advocate, an independent voice for villages, is being abolished by a Government who preach localism but intend to establish in its place a rural communities policy unit based in Whitehall.

There is a third voice that is to be muzzled. Recent disturbing developments and the powers contained in the Bill threaten the future of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority. I co-ordinated the coalition of support that brought the GLA into existence—a remarkable all-party coalition, including, from plough to plate, the National Farmers Union and the supermarkets. All in the coalition were determined to work together so that never again would we see another incident such as that in Morecambe bay, where 22 young Chinese cockle pickers died a terrible death in the freezing sands, ringing home to their distraught families to say farewell.

[David T. C. Davies]

Is the hon. Gentleman seriously trying to suggest that that terrible tragedy results from the current Government’s policies, when they were not the Government at the time? Was it not actually the fault of the previous Government’s lax immigration policy, which this Government are doing everything they possibly can to tighten up?

[Jack Dromey]

However a person is in a country, they do not deserve to die a death like those young Chinese did.

The GLA has been an outstanding success. Together with the president of the NFU and on behalf of the industry, I appointed its chairman, Paul Whitehouse, a former chief constable, under whom the GLA has tackled some of the worst abuse in the world of work in the countryside. For example, intelligence-led operations with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs recovered millions in unpaid tax, and the GLA worked with the police to put away a gangmaster armed with a gun. With others, the GLA has combated money laundering and tax avoidance, and it now combats human trafficking. Paul Whitehouse and the GLA worked with the good, tackled the bad and made examples of the worst, driving out of business disgraceful rogues, and raising standards across the industry, supported by the Association of Labour Providers and reputable employers, who welcomed at last not just fairness, but fair competition.

The Government have refused to reappoint Paul Whitehouse. A new chair, with no history in enforcement, has been appointed. She says that she is on a steep learning curve and that she will have to learn all about the sector, and she has downplayed the role of enforcement of the law. I fear for the future.

Finally, the abolitions of the Agricultural Wages Board and the Rural Advocate, and the threat to the GLA, are, taken together, an attack on the countryside. Our green and pleasant land should not be scarred by exploitation. For the powerful to strip the vulnerable of protection is shameful. That is why the Opposition will oppose the Bill and stand up both for our countryside and for fair treatment in our countryside.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hurd]

My hon. Friend is right that the abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board is not about driving down wages and conditions for agricultural workers, but about removing regulatory burdens on farm businesses and allowing them to focus on the business of farming.

[Jack Dromey]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Hurd]

I will not, with great respect, because I have given way a great deal and have limited time in which to draw my remarks to a close.

I would like to return to the core issue of why we believe the Bill is needed and deserves a Second Reading: the benefits it will deliver for good government in this country. My right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office announced the results of a radical review programme, as a result of which we proposed that almost 500 bodies should be reformed, and in many instances those reforms are already complete or in progress. However, a large number of those bodies have a statutory basis, so legislation is required to turn the Government’s proposals into reality. In some cases departmental Bills provide an appropriate vehicle for the changes, but where that is not the case the Public Bodies Bill represents a sensible legislative solution. It gives the Government the necessary powers to take forward these much-needed reforms without Departments having to wait for primary legislation, preventing unnecessary delay where the case for change is clear.

The Bill achieves that by giving Ministers a series of powers, outlined in clauses 1 to 5, to make changes to public bodies through secondary legislation, subject to a number of safeguards, the completion of a consultation process and the approval of Parliament. I emphasise that those powers are strictly limited in scope. The powers to make orders apply only to the bodies and offices listed in the corresponding schedule to the Bill, to which bodies can be added only through primary legislation, meaning that Parliament will remain the ultimate arbiter over when the use of those powers is appropriate.

Following a review by the other place, important changes have been made to the Bill. Specifically, we have arrived at mechanisms to include a number of proportionate restrictions on the use of the powers set out in the Bill. On independence, we have introduced provision in clause 7 to prevent the Bill from being used in a way that prevents important public functions, such as those of a judicial nature, from being amended in a way that stops them being exercised independently of Ministers. On consultation, we have required that Ministers consult on their proposals before laying a draft order before Parliament. The Bill now provides the option of selecting an enhanced scrutiny procedure for any draft order, giving Parliament and its Committees 60 days to consider a proposal and make representations to Ministers. Clause 12 sunsets the contents of the schedules after five years.

In summary, the reforms we have proposed and that have been debated again today will produce a leaner and more effective system of public bodies centred on the principle of ministerial accountability. We have listened intently to the comments and concerns expressed during the debate and recognise that there are areas where the Government can helpfully produce further clarity and assurance, and the Deputy Leader of the House and I look forward to continuing to engage with hon. Members in Committee and elsewhere.

However, I reiterate my hope that the House can come together in support of the belief that ministerial accountability for public functions and the use of public money should be at the heart of how we conduct ourselves. The Government believe that the proposals embodied in the Bill and in our plans for a regular comprehensive review of all public bodies will set a new standard for the management and review of public bodies, and on that basis I commend the Bill to the House.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jack Dromey Excerpts

Tuesday 5th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

In a leaked letter, Nico Heslop wrote:

“we are worried about the impact…to build social housing for families”

to rent, and added:

“23,000 could be lost…disproportionately impacting on families and…children.”

Why was that information not shared with Parliament? What else is the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government holding back, and why should anyone ever again believe anything that this Government say about housing and benefits?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I remind the hon. Gentleman that the manifesto on which he fought the election last year advocated a housing benefit cap. I assume that, like us, he advocated the cap because it is fair to those who do not receive benefits that those who do receive them cannot do so to the tune that would require someone in work to earn £35,000 or more. It is a fair proposal. Notwithstanding the contents of that leaked letter—which, in any case, was written six months ago; things have moved on since then—we have made it clear that when people, especially large families, need help they will be given that help, and that we will introduce transitional arrangements to provide it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jack Dromey Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am extremely grateful to the Prime Minister. I call Jack Dromey.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

Q12. In this carers week, when we celebrate the contribution of Birmingham’s care assistants and the loving families who look after their loved ones, will the Prime Minister join me in condemning Birmingham city council for cutting care for 4,100 of the most vulnerable in our city, branded unlawful by the High Court? What does he intend to do to ensure that never again will Birmingham city council fail the elderly and the disabled?

[The Prime Minister]

Everyone in the House should welcome the fact that it is carers week. I will be having a reception in No. 10 tonight to celebrate carers week with many people who take part and who are carers. This Government are putting in £400 million to give carers more breaks and £800 million specifically to make sure that those looking after disabled children get regular breaks. What we have in Birmingham is an excellent Conservative and Liberal Democrat alliance doing a very good job recovering from the complete mess that Labour made of that city for decade after decade.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jack Dromey Excerpts

Tuesday 1st March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

It is a vital issue of concern for all Members on both sides of the House that those who are not registered should be registered. One step that we will soon be piloting is to allow electoral registration officers to compare their databases with other publicly available databases, so that they can literally go from door to door and say, “You’re on this database, but you’re not on that one,” and thereby encourage people to register. Drawing international comparisons, our registration rates of just over 90% are pretty respectable, but of course we want to continue to do whatever we can to raise that standard even further.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

Birmingham city council will today vote through the biggest local government cuts in history, with cuts of £212 million for next year. Two weeks ago the council’s deputy leader, Liberal Democrat Councillor Paul Tilsley, wrote to The Times protesting against the cuts, but 24 hours later he signed the budget. As the Deputy Prime Minister believes in restoring faith in politics, how would he describe the actions of Councillor Tilsley, or is he too on a slippery slope?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

All local authorities of whatever political persuasion are clearly facing a very tough local government finance settlement, and we have never hidden the fact that it is extremely difficult. I think there is a great deal of discretion in how local councils can respond to those same pressures, however. For example, I am very struck by the fact that in Sheffield, the city where I am an MP, the Liberal Democrat council has kept every library and swimming pool open and has not made any major cuts to adult social services, and only 270 people will be laid off next year, whereas across the Pennines in Labour-controlled Manchester, 2,500 people have been laid off and almost everything has been closed across the whole city. In Birmingham, as in all great cities, difficult decisions are being made, and I trust that they are being made in a way that safeguards the services for the most vulnerable in that city.

Superannuation Bill

Jack Dromey Excerpts

Wednesday 13th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Maude]

Depending on what the House decides today, some of that uncertainty should be removed. I want Parliament to be able to move quickly to enable the new scheme to be put in place, because it will provide certainty. I absolutely understand the uncertainty that exists for many dedicated, hard-working public servants who know that there might not be a future for them because of the situation—because, frankly, of the previous Government’s legacy of the fiscal deficit—and it is really unfair to leave people in limbo and with that kind of uncertainty. I want us to achieve the greatest certainty at the earliest time so that people know where they stand and so that Departments and agencies that have to make redundancies can go ahead with them and enable people to make the break and start the next phase of their lives.

The caps contained in the Bill are, as I said on Second Reading, a blunt instrument that will immediately limit the amount that can be paid to any individual. Those caps were never intended to be a long-term solution. It is and has always been our absolute priority to create a scheme that is affordable but that provides protection for the lower-paid. However, those protections are complicated to engineer and we felt—I do not resile from this at all—that it is incredibly important to consult thoroughly and to discuss properly how those protections should be configured. The discussions with the unions have been very productive and have led to the scheme, which I shall describe, being configured.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

Widespread concern has been expressed throughout the House about the impact of the Bill on hundreds of thousands of civil servants. I welcome the fact that the Government have improved the offer to the civil service, but that offer is not as generous as what was on offer in February and agreement has yet to be reached. Will the Minister agree personally to meet the six unions concerned to try to achieve a negotiated solution? Negotiation has to be better than the blunt instrument that will impose serious changes for the worse to the employment contracts of, for example, defence civilians in the Ministry of Defence who are serving in support of our forces in Afghanistan right now. That instrument will establish a chilling precedent for the future and it is worrying all public servants. Will he make one final effort before the Bill becomes law?

[Mr Maude]

Absolutely and unequivocally, yes. I shall talk a little about the process we have been through and where we are in the negotiations. I say clearly to the hon. Gentleman and to the House that if it is at all possible to achieve a fully negotiated settlement that is affordable and fair to the taxpayer and that meets the concerns of all the unions, we will certainly try to achieve such an agreement with all six unions. I shall say a little more about that in a while, but the answer is definitively yes.