Mental Health and Unemployment

Debate between James Morris and Kevan Jones

Tuesday 24th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I am pleased that my hon. Friend raised that, because I was coming next to the important role there is for the community and voluntary sector. We need to explore an alternative system. If we conclude that some people cannot work, we need to be able to offer them alternatives, and like the right hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam, I am a big believer in voluntary and charitable work. If people cannot hold down a permanent job—it may not necessarily be their fault; it may be that some employers do not understand that someone who has a severe long-term mental health problem will not be able to turn up to work every day—why not allow them to do voluntary work, which both improves their position and gives something back to society? Social isolation is one of the worst things possible for people with long-term mental health conditions. Enabling such individuals to make some contribution to society would also help them.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) said, the charitable and voluntary sector has a key role to play, not only in getting people back to work but in the long-term management of people with long-term mental health conditions in the community. The Government talk a lot about the community and voluntary sector, and the Heath and Social Care Act 2012 contained a provision that I considered helpful—I was scorned by some of my colleagues for thinking this—which was that third sector bodies could be commissioned to deliver local services. In practice, that has not happened because the contracts that are being let are too big and too complex, and many third sector organisations that do fantastic work locally do not have the capacity to bid for them.

The present system is a scandal. The Just for Women Centre in Stanley, in my constituency, is a great organisation run by Linda Kirk, a former business woman, and Lestryne Tweedy. The centre caters for women who are suffering from domestic violence or mental health-related issues and those who have been on probation. The model is very simple: it uses counselling and crafts to support the individual and look at their underlying mental health issues before moving on to getting them into work. The centre uses individual tailored programmes, which can lead to individuals being with the centre for two years, but the success rate is fantastic and the cost is less than £800 per job placement. That contrasts starkly with the nearly £4,000 the Government pay companies such as Ingeus and others that get people into work.

The situation is even worse than that. Not only can small charities such as the Just for Women Centre not bid for the contract but, disgracefully, if women who come to the centre are also on Ingeus’s books and the centre gets those women into work, Ingeus rings them up and asks them whether they have got into work, they say yes, and Ingeus claims the money, but the Just for Women Centre—the charity—does not get a single penny of it. I hope the Minister will look into the details of this, because it is not just happening in County Durham. We need a method whereby small charities can access the contracts, because I think they would do the work a lot cheaper and more cost-effectively.

We also need a system for managing people long-term in the community. Another fantastic centre in Durham is the Waddington Street Centre, which through education, therapy and other activities, manages people in the community. I pay tribute to Steve Wakefield and his staff, and the chair, Professor Fred Robinson. Like the Just for Women Centre, the Waddington Street Centre cannot access any of these contracts and has to rely on charitable donations. We all know that the charitable sector is being cut, so we need some method whereby those organisations can get access.

Finally, I want to focus on mental health in the workplace, because it is a subject we do not talk about much. As I said, mental health issues cost this country some 4.5% of GDP; most Chancellors of the Exchequer would salivate over the savings to be made by reducing that by 1% or 2%. The question is why mental health in the workplace is not a higher priority for the Government and for UK plc. Part of the answer is the workplace culture—the belief in this country that by working every hour God sends, we will be more productive, and also the belief that any talk of mental health in the workplace is fluffy and vague.

However, some businesses, such as BT, have taken a board-level decision to address mental health issues in the workplace. I congratulate the Communication Workers Union on its work with BT management to put in place support mechanisms and awareness campaigns on mental health and the early warning signs of problems. The results of this approach speak for themselves. In BT’s case, the number of employees off work on sickness absence because of mental health problems has decreased by 30% over the past five years. Among those who have been off work more than six months for mental health reasons, there has been an astounding 80% return rate, compared with the national average of less than 20%.

[James Morris]

The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful speech and the examples he gives from BT are very interesting. Is it not the case that we need to flip the way we think about mental health in the workplace? It is not a problem to be managed, but an opportunity to be taken. Many people on a mental health recovery journey can be some of the most creative and productive employees in an organisation, so we need to embed that approach into HR practice and drive productivity that way.

[Mr Jones]

I agree. The focus should be on mental well-being, rather than mental illness, in the workplace. I spoke to the managing director of BT and asked why the company adopted the approach that I described and whether it was aiming to be a good corporate citizen. The answer was no. The firm does it for hard, brass-tacks reasons—it is good for business. It sees the fragility of poor mental health among its employees as a risk to its business model. I am sure that is the case in other types of business too. BT has recognised that and put the appropriate mechanisms in place. We need a system for that to be rolled out among other companies in the UK.

Local Government Financing

Debate between James Morris and Kevan Jones

Tuesday 29th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I am fascinated by the hon. Gentleman’s history lesson, but I must point out that a Conservative Government—the Thatcher Government, I think—introduced regional offices and regionalisation.

[James Morris]

Under the previous Government, that regionalisation became an embedded policy. It was unaccountable, undemocratic and served no purpose in economic development or improving local government’s accountability.

[Mr Jones]

rose—

[James Morris]

I will not give way again.

Despite attempts by Labour Ministers in the Department for Communities and Local Government to get traction on the localist agenda, there was no commitment to it from the top. The Prime Minister and other Cabinet members simply had no trust in local government or communities and were philosophically unable to let go and let local government get on with its job.

Institutional complexity goes to the heart of the relationship between central Government and local government in this country. In the past two decades, particularly the past 13 years, it has been characterised by excessive, top-down, performance management culture. Recent figures show that the annual cost of regulating local government from Whitehall was estimated at more than £2.5 billion. The distorting effects of that top-down performance culture could be considerably greater on the shape and management of public services in this country.

The right hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) elevated the debate with her discussion of Total Place. I agree that the recent Total Place pilots revealed the true cost of not only compliance but public spending flows in local areas. We certainly need to build on that. Her example of Greater Manchester was compelling and shows that, once we get a grip on and an understanding of the total public expenditure that flows through an area, the implications for the shape and potential reform of public services, and the relationship between local government, the health service, the police and other aspects of delivering public services locally, are great. We need to build on that. I am therefore grateful to the right hon. Lady because her contribution elevated a debate that had been characterised by a rather knee-jerk reaction to every single item of the cuts. If we are truly to start reforming the relationship between local government and other public services, we need to identify the precise public spending flows through different areas.

The performance management culture, which other hon. Members have discussed, needs to be stopped. I therefore greatly welcome the Secretary of State’s removing the comprehensive area assessment. That performance management culture, which has dominated local government in the past 13 years, needs to be replaced by an age of innovation, spurred by the fiscal context in which we live. That is why I am keen for the coalition Government to press ahead with the work on the Total Place pilots. The fiscal position demands that we ask fundamental and difficult questions about local government’s role in providing local services.