Oral Answers to Questions

James Paice Excerpts

Thursday 13th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab)]

9. What representations she has received from the scientific community on her plans to pilot the free shooting of badgers.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr James Paice)]

We have received a large number of representations, including from members of the scientific community. DEFRA’s chief scientific adviser, Professor Bob Watson, has also discussed the evidence with a group of leading scientists, who were able to agree on a number of key points. Their conclusions have been published on DEFRA’s website.

[Graeme Morrice]

I thank the Minister for his answer, but why is he blindly following the free shooting option and excluding others, such as vaccination, regardless of the scientific advice, and why did he cancel five of the six vaccination trials entered into by the previous Labour Government?

[Mr Paice]

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is wrong. We are not blindly ignoring vaccination, which we have always said has a role to play. Indeed, it is being carried out at the moment in some parts of the country. The simple fact, as we have published, is that our veterinary advice states that we can have a greater and swifter impact on bovine TB through a culling policy than through vaccination. With regard to what he called the trials that I cancelled, they were not trials of the vaccine, but deployment projects, and we decided that we could achieve all that we needed in one project, rather than wasting another £6 million on the others.

[Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)]

Farmers across North Wiltshire are being ruined by TB in cattle and very much welcome the recent announcement that the Government will press ahead with a limited cull. Does the Minister agree that selected tests so far have shown a 27% reduction in bovine TB and that, although there was perturbation, as they call it, around the edge of the trial area, it is shown to have been reduced in subsequent years?

[Mr Paice]

My hon. Friend is perfectly correct. The results of the Krebs trials, which were conducted by the independent scientific group on cattle TB, demonstrated that after nine years—long after the end of the trials themselves—there was a reduction of 27%, and even 29%, in the cull zone, which was slightly offset by a temporary increase in the peripheral area. What matters, however, are the measures that are taken to reduce that increase, which is why we are now saying that any group or farmer must now put forward their own ideas about how they will minimise this perturbation.

[Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)]

In a parliamentary answer to me on 5 September, the Minister said that the science showed that his badger cull would lead to five fewer herd breakdowns a year in each cull area. Last year there were more than 2,025 confirmed herd breakdowns in England, so even with 10 cull areas after 2013 the cull would prevent just 50 herd breakdowns a year, a reduction of only 2.5%. However, the cost to farmers in cull areas will run to tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of pounds. Why should they bother?

[Mr Paice]

I suggest that the hon. Lady asks the farmers. As my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire (Mr Gray) has just said, the farming community is anxious to do something after 13 years of neglect under the Labour party. Of course it will be expensive for the groups of farmers involved, but that is up to them. This is one part of a large package of measures, all the rest of which the Government are doing.

[Mary Creagh]

The Minister says “do something”, but surely doing something effective is more useful. We know that the Home Secretary has objected to the cull and is concerned that it will divert scarce police resources away from policing the Olympic games next summer. The latest impact assessment, the consultation for which has just closed, put no figure on the costs, although last year’s consultation put the costs at £200,000. Have those costs risen or fallen since then and will he undertake to make them public so that taxpayers can see how much they are contributing to the cull before a final decision is taken on whether to proceed?

[Mr Paice]

I am glad the hon. Lady recognises that no final decision has been made, a point that I need to emphasise. The fact is that the proposals that we laid before the House, and the consultation that has just finished, were agreed by the whole Government. On the policing costs, we are in discussions, and have been for some months, with the Association of Chief Police Officers. Its attention was unfortunately but quite understandably diverted by the disturbances and riots, so it has only recently refocused, but I assure the hon. Lady that all that information will be used and involved in the final decision, when we bring it to the House.

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

Living as I do in the west country, I know that the Minister will be aware of our concerns not only about bovine TB, but about several other things. I gather that the Secretary of State has put together a proposal to close the vet labs in various places throughout the country, and I wondered what the rationale was for that, particularly in an area where bovine TB is such a problem.

[Mr Paice]

I am grateful that my hon. Friend allows me to correct her impression slightly. The decision, which will be made quite rightly by the Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency, results from the merger of two agencies into one. All that is being closed is the actual laboratories that undertake scientific testing. The post-mortem centres are not proposed for closure, and most samples are already sent by post anyway, so it does not represent in any way a diminution of service.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

10. What plans she has to bring forward proposals to deal with antisocial behaviour by dogs and their owners.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr James Paice)]

As the House is aware, the Home Office has already consulted on changes to the tools and powers to tackle antisocial behaviour, including antisocial behaviour involving dogs, and is considering the responses. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs is also considering a range of further measures to promote more responsible ownership of dogs and will make an announcement shortly.

[Julie Hilling]

When my constituent Pat Brennan was savaged by a bull mastiff, he was told that there was nothing he could do because the attack took place on private property. How many more people have to die or be maimed for life before the Government act?

[Mr Paice]

I am tempted to point out the lack of action by the previous Government, but the much bigger issue is that, as the consultations have demonstrated, some results of which have been published, there is a massive variety of ideas on the best way forward. On the specific issue of private property, that is one thing we consulted on and one thing being considered, but the problem is how we differentiate between an assault on a postman or somebody who is lawfully present and an assault on somebody who may be trespassing or a criminal.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

May I urge the Minister, when he discusses the issue with colleagues throughout the Government, to impress upon them the need to ensure that anyone who encourages their dog to attack a guide dog used by a blind or partially sighted person is very severely punished indeed?

[Mr Paice]

Obviously, punishment is precisely a matter for the courts, but I entirely agree with my hon. Friend’s sentiment, and the Home Office has fully taken that point on board.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

I am glad to be back, as proof that this Opposition are serious about recycling.

Far too many people, including children, are being needlessly killed or maimed by dangerous dogs, and the numbers are rising every single year. Twenty organisations, including the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, the Kennel Club, the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association, Battersea Dogs and Cats Home, the Royal College of Nursing and the Police Federation, are calling for a change in the law. The Northern Ireland Assembly and the Scottish Parliament have already acted, so, 16 months after the end of the consultation and when the Minister said in July that the Government ruled nothing out, will he now rule something in and bring forward his proposals before Christmas at the very latest?

[Mr Paice]

There speaks the authentic voice of 13 years of inaction—and the hon. Gentleman now criticises us about 16 months. We have shadowed each other, and I respect his integrity and admire him, but he is really stretching credibility. I assure him that, as soon as the Home Office has finished considering its consultation, which finished only recently, we will come together to the House with our proposals as soon as possible.

[Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD)]

13. What recent progress she has made in banning the use of wild animals in circuses.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr James Paice)]

The Government fully understand the House’s desire for a ban and are continuing to look at how the legal obstacles may be overcome so that one can be achieved. In the meantime, we are developing a tough licensing regime that will stop circuses using animals if they do not provide appropriate welfare standards. We will consult on these early next year, and I hope that they will be in place by July of next year.

[Dr Huppert]

As the Minister will no doubt recall, on 23 June there was a simply stunning cross-party debate on this issue which concluded unanimously with this House directing the Government to make sure that these regulations took effect by 1 July 2012. Can he assure us that he will make sure that the Government do deliver on this, absolutely definitely?

[Mr Paice]

As I have just said, despite the clear view of the House, which the Government share, we cannot ignore our international legal responsibilities—that is why we are still continuing with our regulatory proposals—but we want to be able to implement the ban as soon as we can when the legal obstacles are cleared up. Since the debate to which my hon. Friend rightly refers, a lot more legal advice has come to us, either having been sought or offered, and it all confirms that which I reported at that stage.

[Mrs Linda Riordan (Halifax) (Lab/Co-op)]

T1. If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

T2. The Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency has announced proposals to close eight of its labs, including both Welsh sites at Aberystwyth and Ceredigion. I am informed that closure of the Welsh sites will result in a 24-hour delay in diagnosing livestock diseases—an unacceptable period that could leave the communities I represent terribly exposed. Does the Minister agree that it is a disgrace that this decision was made without any consultation with the Welsh Government or the farming and workers trade unions?

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr James Paice)]

As I mentioned earlier, this was a decision by the agency, but I understand that it was discussed with the equivalent agency and the chief vet in Wales. No sites are being closed. As I said, this is purely about the laboratory aspect, not the post-mortem aspect. I agree that 24 hours extra delay may be unacceptable, but that is not what is expected; we expect timeliness to remain as it is.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

T8. Can my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State confirm when she expects to receive the final report of the Independent Panel on Forestry?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)]

T4. Farmers and food suppliers in Wigan are desperate for the protection of a groceries ombudsman from the unfair practices of supermarkets. The Government recently promised a Bill to implement that proposal very soon. Will the Secretary of State put pressure on her colleagues to ensure that “soon” really will be soon?

[Mr Paice]

The short answer is yes. As the hon. Lady knows, a draft Bill has been published and has been considered by the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee. The Committee’s report has gone to the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills recently. It is that Department’s Bill, but we are pressing hard for it to be passed as soon as possible.

[Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con)]

I welcome the Government’s negotiations in Europe on food labelling, but I urge my right hon. Friend to ensure that we maintain the flexibility to keep the things that Britain holds dear, such as buying eggs by the dozen and beer by the pint.

[Mr Paice]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s words. This is a policy commitment that the Government have delivered on very clearly. We promised honest labelling and we now have a voluntary code in this country and mandatory country of origin labelling across a lot of products in Europe. I entirely agree with her point about quantities; Britain has its traditions and we want to stick to them.

[Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)]

T6. Food prices have risen by 6% in the last year, costing a family with two young children an extra £350 a year. When will the Secretary of State do something positive to tackle speculation in food prices and its impact on families?

--- Later in debate ---

[Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab)]

On 6 July, in a Westminster Hall debate on dangerous dogs, the Minister said in his response that there was

“real evidence that the situation is worsening”

and that

“Action must, therefore, be taken.”—[Official Report, 6 July 2011; Vol. 530, c. 485WH.]

Given that admission, is it not morally reprehensible that even today he refuses to give a date for a response to the consultation started by the previous Government?

[Mr Paice]

As I said earlier, the Government are fully committed on the matter, and I do not resile from anything that I said in that debate. However, as I have just mentioned, the Home Office rightly decided to examine the wider issues. [Interruption.] Hon. Members are bleating from the Opposition Front Bench, but they know as well as I do that much of the problem is the people, not the dogs. That is why it is right that the Home Office should be involved, but we will bring forward our proposals as soon as we possibly can.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

I am frequently advised by potential investors in my constituency that they lack confidence in the planning process due to delays caused by Natural England. Can the Secretary of State assure me that she will look into that and ensure that Natural England is mindful of the commercial pressures on investors?