BBC (Proposed Cuts)

Jeremy Hunt Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Ms Harman]

Perhaps it should have been, but we are talking about the situation now and in future, especially in light of what has happened in the licence fee settlement, with which I shall deal in a few moments.

As well as standing up for the BBC against commercial pressure, the Secretary of State will need to stand up for it against some on his own side. Lord Justice Leveson’s inquiry and Ofcom are now examining media plurality in the wake of the Murdoch scandal. The dominance of the Murdoch empire, which was so much the root of the wrongdoing that is now being exposed, would have been even more dangerous without the BBC.

I do not think we will see James Murdoch repeat his attacks on the BBC any time soon, but some who support the anti-BBC stance that Murdoch set out in his 2009 Edinburgh lecture will see the Leveson proceedings and the Ofcom review as an opportunity to re-launch their attacks, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) said. Those voices have kept away from the debate today, but we know that the view still lurks among some in the Secretary of State’s party and on his Back Benches. If he wants a strong BBC, he will need to stand up to some on his own side strongly and publicly. When he does that, again, he will have our strong support.

The Secretary of State needs to stand up for the independence of the BBC. At the heart of its independence is the licence fee, and that is why so much concern has been expressed in the House again today about how the deal on the licence fee was done last October. My hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby talked about it as “Three Days in October—When Jeremy Terrorised Mark”. Actually, there was a prequel to that film: “Three Days in October—When George Terrorised Jeremy”. The Secretary of State, appearing to have failed to fight his Department’s corner with the Treasury and to have accepted cuts that were too deep, then imposed major new financial responsibilities on the BBC in a rushed deal behind closed doors, to be paid for from licence fee funds. One was the cost of the World Service.

[The Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (Mr Jeremy Hunt)]

Will the right hon. and learned Lady explain why, if George terrorised Jeremy, the settlement for the BBC required it to make 16% efficiency savings compared with 19% cuts across the whole of the rest of Government?

[Ms Harman]

The Secretary of State could be saying that, in the context of deficit reduction, which the Opposition believe is happening too far and too fast, the settlement could have been even worse for his Department. I do not like to play Tory Cabinet Ministers off one against the other, but the Secretary of State for International Development secured an increase for his Department. The point is that what is happening in the BBC derives from the deal that was done in October.

Of course, like all organisations, the BBC should be efficient, but the agreement on the licence fee should be a settlement between the British public and the BBC; it should not be, or be seen to be, an opportunity for Government intervention in the BBC. That is why there should always be an open process, based on evidence and involving consultation, particularly with the public, who pay the licence fee and receive the service. But that is not what happened. The licence fee stands till 2017, which is after the next election, but I am asking the Secretary of State to acknowledge today that the way in which that was done was wrong, and that to protect the BBC’s independence it should not happen like that again in future.

[Mr Hunt]

If the right hon. and learned Lady is so against the licence fee settlement, will she confirm that it is the Labour party’s policy to reopen it, and that she is against the six-year freeze in the licence fee, which has been so welcomed by hard-working families up and down the country?

[Ms Harman]

The Secretary of State did not listen to what I said. I said that to protect the independence of the licence fee and of the BBC, the licence fee deliberation should be done with great care, with consultation with the public at its heart, and that it should be based on evidence and be open and transparent. Actually, it is a threat to the independence of the BBC to have the Secretary of State locked in a room with the director-general and to have an imposed settlement. I have highlighted the question of independence. I like to think well of people, so I ask the Secretary of State to say that he will support a strong, independent BBC. He needs to show understanding of the concern about how the licence fee was imposed and I hope he will do so.

With the frozen licence fee, new financial responsibilities and the increase in inflation—the forecast is that it will be up from 1.6% to 4.5%—the BBC is having to cut back by at least 16%. The BBC faces invidious choices and hard decisions, which cannot but affect services, jobs and all the sectors for which the BBC is the creative heart.

The cuts to local radio and regional TV have prompted particular concern. I echo hon. Members on both sides of the House who have said that BBC local radio gives a sense of place in what are sometimes fragmented communities—it is about local identity, because it reports local sports and events as well as local news. Local and regional TV offers a ladder of opportunity into the national media and the outcry against the cuts in local radio is heartfelt and genuine.

I should like to add my view of the quality of local radio and to mention Ed Doolan of BBC West Midlands—he is not from my region and I am not trying to get on his programme; he is retired—who spoke out for the whole of the west midlands and was as high a quality of broadcaster as can be found anywhere in the world.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (Mr Jeremy Hunt)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Austin Mitchell) on securing this debate, which follows a well-informed and informative debate in Westminster Hall. I recognise that hon. Members have been speaking for their constituents and for many people the length and breadth of the country when they talk about their commitment to BBC local radio. Just under 10 million people listen to the BBC’s national and local services, in total consuming around 90 million hours of listening every week. That is a third of the 30 million adults who listen to local radio every week, including, as the hon. Member for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) said—I do not think that he is in his place at the moment—a number of people who are disabled, older and from disadvantaged sections of society. We have heard of numerous examples across the country of where BBC local radio has filled a gap that would not have been filled by anything else. In line with what other hon. Members have said, I need to mention the excellent work done by BBC Surrey, which I visited recently, including the excellent Nick Wallis breakfast show.

Before discussing the specific proposals the BBC has made, I want to place this debate in the context of two broader issues that have direct relevance to the issues at stake. The first is the Government’s broader policy on local media and the second is the BBC licence fee settlement, which I negotiated last October.

Let me start with the broader policy towards local media. I am a localist. I have always believed that too much power is concentrated at the centre of our country and we should trust local communities with much greater power to control their own destiny. Strong local media are a vital part of that vision. However, local media in this country are not in a healthy state. Our newspaper industry is battling to reinvent itself in the face of massive technological change. Furthermore, our independent local radio stations have struggled to be profitable and started to consolidate under national brands, which can make them appear less, not more, local.

Almost uniquely among developed countries, we have virtually no local television. I want to put that right. People have characterised our local media policy as simply about local television, but that is a misrepresentation. I want to use the arrival of local television next year, when we will issue 20 cities with the first local television licences, to transform our entire local media landscape to help operators to develop new business models and, most importantly, to learn to respond innovatively to the local communities that they serve in a transformed technological environment.

The objective is to increase plurality—a word that we have heard a lot of this year—at a local level in a way that is consistent with the approach laid out by my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns). The relaxation of local media ownership rules is the first step, and next year’s licences will be the second step. The arrival of superfast broadband to 90% of the country by 2015—another of my departmental responsibilities—will mean that by then nearly everyone will be able to access local television over the internet. In short, as the BBC responds to the concerns raised today, which I hope that it will, the Government are doing their best to address the longer-term structural deficiencies in the local media sector.

Hon. Members have mentioned last year’s licence fee settlement. I strongly believe that the settlement is fair to the BBC and a good deal for licence fee payers. It is the first time that the licence fee has been frozen for six years, and at a time when nearly all other household bills are going through the roof, this will help struggling families and remind people that the BBC is doing its bit, too, to offer the public better value for money.

Overall, the agreement requires the BBC to make efficiency savings of 16%, which, as I said, is less than the 19% across the rest of government. I put it to the House that 16% efficiency savings over six years is not unreasonable: they are considerably lower than in many other parts of the public sector and far below those that many private sector companies have to make over much shorter time scales. The director-general of the BBC himself said:

“Anyone who believes that the BBC could have achieved a licence fee settlement at any stage and under any government, which would have called for lower efficiency targets than other public bodies were facing, is deluding themselves.”

Both he and the new chairman of the BBC Trust recognise the fairness of the settlement in challenging times.

I say to the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman) that the Labour party also has responsibilities, and it cannot complain about the cuts without also saying whether it would reopen the licence fee settlement and end the six-year freeze. To engage in a debate about cuts and not say what it would do is irresponsible politics and undermines the excellent speeches made by Labour Back Benchers today.

The House will understand that, as mentioned, having negotiated an overall efficiency saving, it is not for the Government to specify how the BBC Trust spends the money. Operational and editorial independence is at the heart of the high esteem in which the BBC is held by the public and vital to the role that it plays in our democracy. Because of its fundamental importance, that independence is enshrined in its charter and agreement.

The hon. Member for Great Grimsby talked about the BBC’s culture of “can-do submission” and its saying to me, “Yes, sir, no, sir, three bags full, sir.” If only that were the case. He will know that I am probably the only Member to have been called a four-letter word that rhymes with his surname by a presenter on the “Today” programme. Oscar Wilde said:

“The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about”.

The presenter certainly cured that problem for me.

If it is wrong for the Government to compromise BBC independence, however, it is equally wrong for the BBC not to listen to, and take heed of, the views expressed by hon. Members today. I hope that the BBC will listen to the passion with which Members have spoken. I hope that it will note the articulacy with which, for example, my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) talked about local decision making at Radio Shropshire. My hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) talked about Radio Humberside. My hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) talked about Radio Kent, which has the longest listening hours in the country. The hon. Member for Makerfield (Yvonne Fovargue)—I do not think she is here—talked about the importance of rugby league and local sports coverage. The hon. Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield) talked about Radio Sheffield and its reach to ethnic minorities, as well as its sports coverage. My hon. Friends the Members for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) and for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) talked about the important role that the BBC plays for the Welsh language. The hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) talked about the importance of local identity, as well as the match reporting of Ali Brownlew.

The hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith) talked about the BBC’s brilliant natural history coverage—I think it was the first time that “criminal penguins” had been mentioned in this House. She also made an important point about the importance of the local as well as the regional, which is very much at the heart of the local TV agenda. The hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith) talked about the fact that the BBC is not afraid to rattle feathers. In terms of local TV coverage, one of the things we need to do—[Interruption.] I think the phrase I was looking for was probably “rattle cages”. We want to increase, not decrease, the scrutiny of local democracy and local politics, which lies at the heart of many of the concerns that hon. Members have raised today. The hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) talked about the pitfalls of local radio sharing. I hope that the BBC will think about those lessons. I had not heard that “Newsnight Scotland” was called “Newsnicht Scotland”, but what the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) said about the dangers in the transition of BBC 2 to HD is something that the BBC would do well to listen to, because I know how important that programme is.

I hope that hon. Members will be reassured by some of the comments that BBC management have made in response to this whole debate and the points raised. The director general said to the Public Accounts Committee that local radio was an “incredibly precious service” and that the BBC did not want to preside over its decline. Lord Patten, the new chairman of the BBC Trust, described local radio as the glue that holds local communities together and a

“more trusted way of getting information than anything else”.

I know that Lord Patten has been visiting BBC local radio stations recently to learn more about them and their role. I am sure that he will see that radio is a medium that often generates a passionate response, especially from listeners. He will see that local radio is a unique source of local information, debate and culture. He will see that it serves a crucial function in building relationships with and supporting local communities. As such, local radio is rightly valued and treasured by Members of this House, speaking up for their constituents.