Oral Answers to Questions

Jessica Morden Excerpts

Thursday 25th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Hammond]

I would like to be able to control the weather, but of course I cannot. It is right that the Government recognise that the pothole damage has undoubtedly been caused by the weather. That is why the Chancellor announced additional funding in the autumn statement.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

Will the Minister please clarify the rather confused briefing put out a few weeks ago on funding to help ease congestion on the M4 around Newport? We have had another incident this week, so it would be really useful to know what progress is being made.

[Stephen Hammond]

I am not sure where the confused briefing came from, but I assume that it must be the Welsh Government, because funding for the M4 around Newport is, as the hon. Lady knows, a matter for them.

England-Wales Transport Links

Jessica Morden Excerpts

Wednesday 6th February 2013 Westminster Hall

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

Well done to the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) for securing this debate. I am sorry that I was unable to be on his marathon six-hour train journey, but he has made a persuasive case for mid-Wales, and I am sure the Minister is listening. I also thank him for giving us an opportunity to lobby on other transport matters. As a south Wales MP, I will address the Severn bridge tolls and rail, which he has already mentioned.

The Severn bridge tolls are a thorny issue. A Wales Office Minister recently told me that reports commissioned on the impact of the tolls on Wales gave a mixed picture. He may well say that, but constituents and businesses tell me loud and clear how hard they find absorbing the increased tolls each year when their pay is frozen, their hours are reduced and the cost of living is rising. I am aware of their misery, because it is a major local issue about which I am contacted as an MP. Businesses, particularly those in the haulage industry, say the tolls mean they bear a cost that competitors across the bridge do not and that they have to add that cost to their bottom line, which hits their competitiveness. A Welsh Assembly study, about which the Minister may be aware, shows that scrapping the tolls altogether would improve the economic output of south Wales by some £107 million.

For many, the light at the end of the tunnel is the end of the concession in a few years’ time. I say a few years’ time, because every time someone ventures to say the concession will end on a certain date, the duration of the concession lengthens, which is worrying to say the least. That is mild: I think the concession is becoming a farce. In 2005, the concession would end in 2016; last year, it was 2017; and it now appears to be shifting to the end of 2018. Will the Minister confirm his current estimate?

The first reason given for extending the concession was reduced traffic due to the downturn; then it was the cost of installing the card-handling system, then industrial building allowances and then higher VAT. Now, because the concession may well extend beyond 2018 into 2020, we have the mystery debt from the construction of the bridges, about which another Minister wrote to the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs and which might push the date further into the future. The announcement in December obtained by the Chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee, the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies), was news to all of us on the Committee. The information was never mentioned in our recently completed inquiry. Will the Minister explain how the debt came about and why we were never told of it?

That highlights the problem with the concession. I note that Ministers have recently been using the Severn bridge concession as an example of why private companies’ investing to improve our roads, with motorists paying tolls, is a good idea. I have heard Ministers say on the radio and on television that there are tolls on the M6. Well, I think that the Severn bridge concession is a terrible example. The concession, fixed by law years ago, allows the company to whack up the tolls every year until it reaches its target. The toll is completely inflexible, as we saw when there were calls to accept debit and credit card payments. Help for regular users, off-peak travel for businesses and the ability for car sharers to share the tab are all too difficult for the concessionaires who just care about getting the revenue. Calls from customers for any sort of flexibility fall on deaf ears, and the motorist yet again gets stung, with no protection when times are hard, as they are now.

We need something to look forward to when the concession ends. There is a niggling fear that the Treasury sees the bridges as a useful revenue stream after 2017, 2018 or 2019, or whenever the concession ends, and is looking to bank in advance the anticipated revenue from the bridge tolls. Will the Minister please tell me that is not the case?

We need to know what discussions are taking place and whether the Department is engaging with the issue now, rather than waiting until the last minute. Crucially, we need to know that not only reduced tolls, but other creative ideas such as reductions for regular users and off-peak travel for businesses are being considered.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Does the hon. Lady agree that, on the announcement we heard in evidence to the Welsh Affairs Committee that the UK Government intend to continue the tolls at their current level, following the return to public ownership because of a previously undisclosed debt, the general impression in Wales is that the UK Government are fleecing Welsh motorists?

[Jessica Morden]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. Obviously, the Welsh Assembly has expressed an interest in running the bridges when the concession ends, and I would be happy with that, as I suspect would many of my constituents, if it pledges in advance to reduce the tolls. It would be helpful if the Minister told us what discussions are ongoing with the Welsh Assembly Government.

The Severn tolls are the highest in the UK. It is true that we have to pay the tolls because the bridges had to be built, but the situation is now out of control. The Government stepped in for the Humber bridge and the Dartford crossing, and they ought to do the same for the Severn bridges and give us some reassurance for the future.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

I agree with my hon. Friend that the Severn bridge in south-east Wales is seen as an opportunity for the company to fleece motorists. Is the toll not also a real economic difficulty that places the Welsh lorry and logistics industries at a competitive disadvantage?

[Jessica Morden]

I agree with my hon. Friend. The logistics and haulage industries, many of which are based in our constituencies, are hit hard by the toll because they cannot pass on the extra costs that their competitors do not bear.

On train connectivity, many of my constituents travel to work in places such as Bristol. Constituents at the Monmouth end of Newport East have for years faced ill-thought-out connections, which the hon. Member for Ceredigion mentioned, and a decline in the number of train services stopping from places such as Severn Tunnel Junction. A local campaign group, the Severn tunnel action group, have fought a tremendous and successful campaign to bring back many of the services that that station lost. The group has highlighted the local demand for commuter services. The station’s footfall has increased substantially recently—by about 14%—and it is ideally placed to be a major park-and-ride station, with investment.

Even after winning back services that were due to be axed, STAG pointed out that the station’s potential was not being fully realised. STAG highlighted the ill-thought-out timetable, which failed to recognise the importance of connecting commuter trains to services coming from places such as Lydney, Chepstow and Caldicot. For example, Arriva Trains Wales eliminated a service at Severn Tunnel Junction that connected to the First Great Western service and that STAG had negotiated and won back only six months earlier. The replacement Arriva cross-country service leaves Severn Tunnel Junction just minutes before the First Great Western service arrives, so passengers must wait hours for connecting trains, as the hon. Member for Ceredigion mentioned. That is not acceptable. Moreover, peak trains are often so full that passengers must stand for the whole journey or wait a few hours until the next one.

All those factors, particularly cross-border connectivity, put commuters off local train services. I ask the Minister to bear those points in mind when he talks to train operators, and perhaps to agree to meet the Severn tunnel action group—a fantastic example of a local group campaigning for rail services.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jessica Morden Excerpts

Thursday 29th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I need proper notice of that question, but I will certainly write to my hon. Friend with the answer.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

Toll increases on the Severn bridge were announced last week. Businesses and commuters in my constituency feel that they are paying the highest tolls in the UK. What they would like to hear from the Government is that they will do what they can to help now, and that when the concession ends the tolls will be substantially reduced for local people, not considered a useful revenue stream for the Government. Will the Minister make that commitment?

[Stephen Hammond]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question. As she and other members of the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs heard, the tolling arrangements will continue beyond the concession because of the debts that are still repayable to the UK Government. We are in discussions and have had letters from the Welsh Government about arrangements post 2018, and I will look at them most seriously.

--- Later in debate ---

The Leader of the House was asked—

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

6. What steps he is taking to ensure that written questions for named-day answer receive a substantive answer on the day named.

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Andrew Lansley)]

My office collates information on departmental performance in relation to ordinary and named-day parliamentary questions, which is then submitted sessionally to the Procedure Committee. I intend to continue to work with the Committee and with Departments both to report on and to improve performance.

[Jessica Morden]

My named-day question to the Home Office about the cost of the police commissioner in Wales after the mess-up over the ballot papers appeared not on the day named but more than 20 days late, conveniently after the election was over. I should not have been surprised, however, as the Home Office replies to only 37% of named-day questions on time. What more can be done to make Departments respect this process?

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Lady will be aware that the Procedure Committee is following the matter up and that I am in contact with Departments about it, and she will be encouraged to know that the Home Office has improved its performance recently. I think that what we need to do is lead by example. In the last Session, the largest number of named-day questions—2,260—were submitted to the Department of Health, which achieved a 99.6% positive response rate.

Cost of Living

Jessica Morden Excerpts

Wednesday 16th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

I promise to speak quickly, Mr Speaker, and I thank you for giving me the opportunity to take part in this debate and give a voice to my constituents, who are really struggling with the cost of living. Like other Labour Members, I wish to concentrate on the realities of how those on lower incomes are coping during these times.

Like other hon. Members, I found, in Newport, that the cost of living was the No. 1 issue on the doorstep during the local elections. The good voters of Newport had their say on the Government’s policies, voting out the Tory-Lib Dem coalition in Newport and electing a new Labour council. I feel very much that people are sending a message, and we must listen closely to them.

As other hon. Members have said, the Queen’s Speech undoubtedly contains some worthy ideas; many moons ago in this debate, my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks) mentioned flexible parental leave, a Labour idea, and I wish to mention the attempt to speed up the process of adoption, which was a real issue for the couple I met last week in my constituency. They have waited a long time to adopt and have left me in no doubt as to the difficulties of that process, and this is well worth tackling.

However, the Queen’s Speech is about priorities, and last week the Government failed to offer a glimmer of hope to those families and constituents of mine who find themselves struggling to get by and just managing to keep their heads above water. These are families who are living in the real world, where careful budgeting is thrown out by the washing machine breaking down or by a child needing a new pair of shoes—by just a small unexpected bill. They were looking to this Government to help or at the very least understand, but instead the Queen’s Speech came on top of the measures announced in the autumn statement and in the Budget, particularly the cuts to tax credits, and has done nothing to help and offers little hope.

While food, energy and fuel prices and transport costs are up, wages are stagnant or cut and the Government are taking away tax credits. In April, 730 families in my constituency will have had their tax credits reduced unless they have been able to find extra hours to work. They will have lost around £3,800 a year, but they are the people who can least afford to lose that money. They are on incomes of about £16,000 or £17,000 a year and are those most impacted by the price rises because they spend a disproportionate part of their income on fuel and food. They are the people who are now turning up at my citizens advice bureau with three children saying that they are staying in private rented accommodation, have had their income reduced by £70 a week and are really struggling.

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

I have a lot of sympathy with what the hon. Lady is saying, but does she welcome the fact that the core measure in the Budget this year raised the very people she is talking about out of the taxation system altogether? The Budget and the Government’s strategy are aimed at helping the very people she is talking about.

[Jessica Morden]

I have a lot of respect for the hon. Gentleman but the Government are giving with one hand and taking away with the other. I just need to say “VAT” and “tax credit cuts”. I am sure that the family I am talking about who presented themselves at the CAB will not recognise themselves as being better off in any way as a result of the measures he mentions.

As other hon. Members have mentioned, there was nothing in the Queen’s Speech about helping with the cost of child care. For many families, it is as much as the mortgage or housing costs, if not more. What are the Government doing for families in my constituency whose child care costs are rising by 4% to 6%? The Childcare Trust recently pointed out that those costs are increasing, particularly for the under-twos, whilst wages are stagnant and the child care element of the working tax credit has been cut. There is an urgent need for creative solutions in this area of policy, as child care is a massive part of the cost of living for many of my constituents.

Last week in my constituency office—I cannot be alone in experiencing this—I saw constituents who are having to wait months, not weeks, for appeals on tax credits. In the meantime they are struggling along. I see people with disabilities who have medical evidence backing up their situation having their benefits withdrawn. Half of them then appeal successfully, but they have to wait months for their appeal. I am even seeing parents who cannot afford to take up nursery places because of the cost of petrol. In my local CAB there were 1,900 extra benefits cases in the last financial year, and that figure is going to increase.

There are two food banks operating in my constituency, with the churches in Caldicot looking to set up and operate another one. In December alone the food banks distributed more than 3,000 parcels. I have to pay tribute to the food banks in my constituency run by the Raven House Trust and the King’s Church. They are a fantastic example of the good society and have heart-warming community support. However, the new people turning up at food banks are often those affected by benefits changes who have to be helped until an appeal is heard or who, because of low pay, just cannot make it to the end of the week.

Finally, into this picture of people struggling with the cost of living in Newport we throw the fact that the Government are raising the spectre of regional pay. There are 23,000 public sector workers in Newport, which has a lot of public sector workers precisely because of the previous Government’s policy of relocating jobs out of the south-east to increase employment in targeted areas, which was a fantastic thing to do. As a result, our employers include not only the local authority and the NHS but the Office for National Statistics, the Prison Service and the Intellectual Property Office, to name a few. Those jobs have been a boost to our city and a huge success story, but public sector workers in Newport have had a pay freeze for two years now and there will be a 1% cap for a further two years. They are also having to pay increased pension contributions. We have had 9,000 public sector job cuts in Wales and the TUC predicts a possible 39,000 more in the years to come.

Regional pay would be devastating for Newport and Wales. Last week, the Welsh Government published their response to the Treasury consultation on regional pay, and all the parties in the Welsh Assembly have expressed their opposition to it. I agree with the First Minister, Carwyn Jones, that the proposal is just

“code for cutting pay in Wales”.

The Welsh Government point to the lack of Treasury evidence that high public sector pay crowds out the private sector. We believe this is a back-door way to drive down public sector wages and will be bad news for Welsh workers and the Welsh economy.

Not only will struggling public sector workers see their pay driven down; there will be a devastating effect on the economy in Wales. In my area, the public and private sectors are inextricably linked—they are intertwined. Money taken from public sector workers means less spent in the local economy, which then hits the private sector.

In Newport, we saw how close that connection was when the Home Office tried to close our passport office. Closure of the office would have devastated our city centre, which relies on the throughput of its staff and customers to survive. The argument that holding down public sector wages will make private sector jobs magically appear is ill thought out.

In Wales, women make up 64% of the public sector work force and 87% of part-time workers. The previous Government made particular efforts on equal pay. Average pay might be higher, but I ask the Government not to roll back progress for women.

In March, like many hon. Members, I challenged Ministers about where the extra hours would come from for families who would lose their tax credits as a result of the Government’s proposals. We said then that the Government had demonstrated no understanding of the real difficulties faced by families. Nothing in the Queen’s Speech demonstrates that they have any more understanding than they did then. I urge them to do all they can to help people with the cost of living.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

Public Transport (Disabled Access)

Jessica Morden Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Westminster Hall

[Lisa Nandy]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, because he gives me the opportunity to pay tribute to some of the public transport companies that have worked hard to make real strides forward on this issue. All those examples show that it can be done if there is a will for it to be done. It is up to all of us here in the Chamber to ensure that we push as hard as we can to make this happen.

Seat belts on buses are not routinely provided for wheelchair users. I have been sent some absolutely appalling stories of the indignity that people suffer when the bus drives off too fast and their wheelchair is not properly secured. Blind people have told me of their particular difficulties in identifying which bus is arriving, and knowing when to get off. Those issues could be rectified by introducing talking buses, by introducing seat belts, by introducing more space for buggies and wheelchairs, and training for drivers.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend has made an incredibly compelling case. May I commend to her the campaign of Guide Dogs Cymru, “Walk a Mile in My Shoes”, which I had the pleasure of taking part in last week with councillors and Assembly Members? She was talking about a joined-up approach, and that event brought home to me the difficulties experienced by people with sight loss and other disabilities negotiating city centres and getting to the bus or train station in the first place, let alone dealing with announcements and so on.

[Lisa Nandy]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point. Guide Dogs for the Blind was one of the most helpful organisations when I was preparing for today’s debate. I am sure that the Minister will want to consult it further about some of the difficulties my hon. Friend mentioned.

Almost half of all bus operator revenue comes from public funding. I want to see the Government putting serious pressure on companies in receipt of that public subsidy to ensure that the changes that I am outlining today happen. We not only can use our procurement power to make this happen, but we must and should do so, and make it happen quickly. What is so strikingly clear is that laws and training are essential, but alone they are not enough to solve the problem.

Several years ago I had the privilege to work for the former Member for Walthamstow, Neil Gerrard, an inspirational MP who, among many other things, while I worked for him brought into law the Private Hire Vehicle (Carriage of Guide Dogs etc.) Act 2002. It closed a loophole in the law under which black cabs had to carry guide dogs but private hire vehicles did not. It was symbolically important and particularly important to blind people, who obviously rely more on private hire vehicles than any other form of transport, but Guide Dogs for the Blind tells me that, since then, the situation has not got much better because the Act has not been enforced. That underlines how enforcement is essential if we are to make progress.

High-speed Rail

Jessica Morden Excerpts

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Westminster Hall

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this incredibly well-attended debate. Despite the Wales Office’s silence on the issue, research by Professor Stuart Cole at the university of Glamorgan points to real benefits to Wales due to speedier connections and greater capacity. Does my hon. Friend find it strange that the Secretary of State has not referred to that research in any way?

[Susan Elan Jones]

I do find it strange, but not when one considers the Secretary of State’s personal opposition to the project. Professor Cole has made it clear that the project would also bring great benefits through inward investment in Wales.

The Secretary of State said of her opposition:

“This project goes right through my backyard”.

If that is not nimbyism, I do not know what is. It is not even disguised nimbyism; it is self-interest pure and simple. In a debate on the issue in March, the hon. Member for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans) recounted tales of people stating:

“I am not a nimby, I just don’t want a railway line built near my house.”—[Official Report, 31 March 2011; Vol. 526, c. 177WH.]

Severn Crossings Toll

Jessica Morden Excerpts

Thursday 19th May 2011 Westminster Hall

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

Everyone seems to be leaving the Chamber, which is sad because very few issues cause more rows in pubs and constituency surgeries in south Wales than the Severn bridge. You might expect me to declare an interest at this point, Mr Davies, but one of the bits of pub trivia that came out of our inquiry is that I do not need to do so, because neither of the Severn bridges starts or ends in my constituency. One ends in the constituency of Newport East, and the old Severn bridge starts and ends entirely in England before joining the Wye bridge. It would, therefore, be difficult for some of the Members who have left the Chamber to demand that the old Severn bridge be partly administered by the Welsh Assembly Government in Wales, because it does not actually come into Wales at all.

The issue for all of us is the price. It has confounded us in constituency surgeries throughout south Wales and the M4 corridor. It is worth setting out some of the background. The second Severn crossing was built by a consortium of four companies, which became Severn River Crossing. Not only did they build the second Severn crossing, but they took on the debt of the old bridge, which amounted to about £450 million. The deal was that they could collect just under £1 billion, which was linked to inflation, and that, once that money had been collected, the bridge would revert to public ownership. At present, that is expected to happen in around 2017.

It became clear to us during the course of our inquiry that, no matter how angry we might get over the level of the tolls and no matter what impact we might think it has on the economy, there is very little that any of us, including the Minister, can do about it. This is a matter not of the Minister deciding what he wants to set the toll at for any given year, but of straightforward contract law that would be backed up by the courts. The deal was struck in 1992 between the then Government and private companies, and there is no flexibility in it whatsoever.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

Was the hon. Gentleman as surprised as I was to see the Welsh Conservatives pledge during the Assembly elections to freeze the tolls immediately?

[David T. C. Davies]

I must admit that that was a surprise to me. It would, of course, have been feasible to do it, but a Conservative Government in the Welsh Assembly—which was, sadly, not to be—would have had to pay back all the money to Severn River Crossing. That would have been a significant amount of money. I am not sure whether the policy applied to heavy goods vehicles—I believe that it applied just to cars—but it would still have been significant. The point is that SRC could not simply have been told to freeze the tolls without compensation being paid, because its shareholders would have had every right to take the Welsh Assembly Government to court. There would have been some practical difficulties in implementing that policy, because I presume that it would have been up to the Welsh Assembly Government to negotiate the rate directly with SRC. I am not sure how far down the line the negotiations went. It would have been feasible, but it would have been a challenging proposition. Sadly, it will not come to pass, because of the efforts of the hon. Lady’s party.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

It is good to see the Minister here to respond to the debate. I thought that his evidence to the Welsh Affairs Committee was frank and that he seemed very engaged in the matter. As someone who has been talking about the Severn bridges for some time, I appreciate that.

Like the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies), I obviously have a strong constituency interest in sorting out the issues surrounding the Severn bridges. I commend the hon. Gentleman for the way in which he chairs the Welsh Affairs Committee and for deciding that this should be one of the first inquiries following the election. The evidence that the Committee has received backs up what I have heard from my constituents for many years, which is that the crossings are too expensive, inflexible and inconvenient.

As I said in a Westminster Hall debate last year, until very recently people could not pay by credit or debit card, and they cannot pay online or travel off peak. There are no concessions for people who live locally. Yet the tolls continue to rise year on year, even though the service is outdated. I do not apologise for raising the matter again because, although Severn River Crossing has a responsibility to its shareholders—as has been mentioned—I feel a responsibility to my constituents, who are the customers. I would like Severn River Crossing to pay a little more attention to the customers.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

I, too, congratulate the Chair of the Committee, the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies), on covering the topic, which is certainly important to my constituents. I want to take up my hon. Friend’s point about a permanent system not yet being in place for credit card payments. It seems mad that, in 2011, there is not yet a permanent system in place for people to pay their toll with a credit card. That is absolutely bonkers. If someone goes to the bridge on a Friday evening, there are massive queues. Often people arrive there and they do not have enough cash. That has happened to me on my way home. I have not had enough cash and I had to get off at the service station beforehand to get some. Getting cash in that way can cost money, as people might have to use one of those machines that charge. Would it not be much easier if commuters, hauliers and others could use a credit card easily to cross the Severn bridge?

[Philip Davies (in the Chair)]

Order. I ask for interventions to be brief.

[Jessica Morden]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. There is no permanent solution to that at the moment. I travelled over the bridge last Thursday night, and although I believe that a temporary measure is in place, there is still no permanent fixture. I am sure the Minister will correct me later if I am wrong on that. I will move on to that issue later.

The Committee heard anecdotal evidence about the economic impact of the tolls on businesses and commuters, and it welcomed the Welsh Assembly’s commissioning an assessment of the economic impact of the bridge’s operation. The Government response refers to new business investment in Wales. I want to add my own anecdotal evidence. Haulage companies in my constituency, and I suspect in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith), are being severely impacted by the tolls, as the charge is not borne by companies just over the bridge. For example, Owens Road Services is a long-standing Welsh company with a base in Newport. It represents 1% of the total heavy goods vehicle traffic on the crossing and pays £200,000 a year. Toll increases keep coming off its bottom line. The Welsh logistics industry is paying a charge that is not paid by competitors in England. I speak weekly to commuters—for example, teachers—who travel to Bristol. They are suffering every day at a time when hours are being cut, wages frozen and fuel prices are high.

As the hon. Member for Monmouth has said, what came out loud and clear from the Committee’s inquiry is that the contract negotiated with Severn River Crossing is very restrictive and that the Secretary of State’s powers are constrained by that. However, where there’s a will, there’s a way. I still want the Government to pursue the issue of a toll freeze. I took the Minister at his word when he said it is difficult, although as we referred to earlier, there are people in his party who see the matter slightly differently.

On 6 April, which was just a few weeks after the Minister gave evidence to us, during the Assembly elections, the Welsh Conservatives pledged that

“a Conservative Assembly Government will freeze Severn Bridge Tolls cars at their current level. The freeze will be brought in immediately.”

As an aside, there was no mention of business vehicles, which has not gone down particularly well. I am genuinely bemused by that. Has the Minister committed to doing that or do the Welsh Conservatives just not know that the bridges are not devolved and that there are contract limitations? I would be grateful for an answer on that later.

[David T. C. Davies]

Presumably, if the hon. Lady and I were fortunate enough to win the lottery, we could ask Jim Clune if we could pay for everyone to have a toll freeze. Although the matter is not devolved, there would have been nothing to stop the Welsh Conservatives doing that had they formed a Government. Sadly, they did not, but maybe next time.

[Jessica Morden]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Apparently the Assembly would have had to pay £29 million to Severn River Crossing. I am loth to take him up on his offer to commit to paying that if we win the lottery, just in case.

I would like the tolls to be frozen and greatly reduced when the bridges come back into public ownership in 2017. I fully support the Committee’s assertion that the toll could be reduced to a fifth of its current level to approximately £1.50, while allowing the crossings to remain self-financing. We recommend that the Government should seek to reduce the level of the toll at the earliest opportunity.

In the meantime, I want the Minister to address some of my parochial concerns. On car sharing, commuters who share a car cannot share the TAG. I was under the impression that that issue had been sorted out some years ago and dealt with by Severn River Crossing. However, it appears that it has not. Will the Minister please pursue that with the company in the interests of cutting congestion? We are urging people to car share, so we ought to be making it easier.

On off-peak tariffs for business, one issue that businesses have always raised with me, which is an extremely good point, is more flexible pricing. Effectively, off-peak travel for business would offer incentives to travel at certain times of the day and night. That would reduce congestion, save emissions and help companies at a time when they are struggling.

May I also ask the Government at some stage to examine the issue of a reduction in tolls for people who live locally? As someone said earlier, maybe that could be done on a postcode basis. Such a scheme has been introduced on the Dartford crossing. I believe that it is easier to do that on the Humber and Dartford crossings, as they have no concession. I am sure that the Minister will put me right on that if I am wrong, but in the longer term, could we look at doing that in Wales?

On the thorny issue of modern technology, I believe that one of the witnesses, who gave evidence to the Committee referred to not being able to pay by modern methods as a “mild national embarrassment”. That the issue was shown on “Gavin & Stacey” has been well-reported. I am glad that the temporary system is in place, although I believe that the permanent machines have not been installed yet. The company pledged to the Committee to do that within the first quarter of this year, so I would be most grateful for an update on progress.

Given the long, painful years it has taken to get to the stage of being able to pay by credit and debit cards, which appeared to be a fairly simply issue, may I urge the Minister to get to grips with the future of the bridge post-2017, as the hon. Member for Monmouth has mentioned? The Government response to the Committee’s report states:

“it is too early to be setting a future strategy for the Severn Crossings at this stage, including future toll prices and concessions.”

With the current Parliament due to expire in 2015, this is not an issue that can be left until another election, because businesses and commuters in my constituency need certainty.

I welcome the Department’s commitment in the Government response to provide regular updates to everybody on future strategy. I also thank members of the Committee, as one of the local MPs, for the time that they have spent on this issue. It has been a valuable exercise in providing fresh impetus to sorting out the future of the bridges.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mike Penning]

This is where I wish that I had not joined the Army at 16 but had gone to university and become a corporate lawyer. We can discuss the legalities in quite simple terms. Nothing at all can be done without the agreement of the concessionaire, so should the company decide that it does not want to do what has been suggested, that will be a fact. We are trapped in a contract; everyone knows that and the Committee examined the matter in detail.

I can see the logic of where the hon. Member for Swansea West is coming from, but the Welsh Assembly subsidising what would be the increase this year would not cause the contract to be terminated earlier, because all that would happen is that the same money would be recouped from the Assembly or whoever wanted to pay it as would be recouped from tolls. Thus the length of time would be exactly the same. I will write to the hon. Gentleman—the lawyers are probably panicking as they listen to the debate—to clarify exactly what the legal position is. However, I am certain—this is what all the advice says—that if the company that was formed specifically for this purpose does not want to play ball, there is nothing that we can do.

[Jessica Morden]

While the Minister is on the issue of the contract, does what has been said equally apply to car sharing? Would it be equally difficult to resolve the issue of being able to swap between different cars in car-sharing schemes?

[Mike Penning]

I have asked for a note, but it has not arrived. It might do—hint, hint—in the time left. I cannot understand the difference, I must admit. Clearly, car sharing is going on. It happens on the routes that go from where I used to live in Essex into London. We commend car sharing. We want people to share cars, because it reduces emissions and makes travel much more cost-effective for people. I do not understand how the concession agreement would be affected in that respect, but I am sure that the lawyers will tell me why I am wrong—as always, I am being as honest as I can.

The hon. Member for Newport East made a couple of other points earlier. I have already touched on how price freezing and tolling would work. In the Select Committee evidence session, I talked about whether there is more technology that we can use to make things much easier for the communities on both sides of the border and for industry and at the same time to sweat the asset more, as we are doing with managed motorways. In other words, are we getting the best out of the bridge? Clearly, the toll process is causing delays.

We are committed to free-flow tolling at the Dartford river crossing. We made an announcement about that in the spending round, and I made an announcement about it to the Select Committee. There are real technical issues about using automatic number plate recognition, which is what we intend to use. It is similar to what the congestion charge scheme in London uses. There is an enforcement issue, particularly in relation to overseas vehicles. We intend to get that right at Dartford before we introduce the system. However, I can see no logical reason why it could not be introduced at the Severn river crossing.

The problem, of course, is the cost and who bears it. That is what the hon. Member for Pontypridd was alluding to. Let us be honest: why would the company set up in the context of the concession agreement to make this profit say to me, “Okay, Minister, we’ll spend X million pounds doing this for you,” rather than saying, “Will you pay for it?” or “We’ll use our rights to go further in the concessionary period.”

The truth is that by the time we fully implement ANPR and free-flow technology at Dartford, we will be into 2013, not least because of the construction work that needs to be done. Doing free-flow tolling sounds simple, but it is not. Otherwise, people would be hurtling through and we would have speed issues and so on. We will not be that far away from the conclusions about what will happen post the concession. I think that the negotiations will have to include what we would expect a modern tolling system to involve in the 21st century. The issue will arise once we have rolled out the system and done everything that we need to do at Dartford. The last thing that the Select Committee would want me to do is to say yes, we’ll definitely be able to roll it out in 2015 or ’16—in the latter part of this Parliament—if we have not got it running right. I am confident that we can do that, because the technology is there.

I think that we were all sceptical when the congestion charge was introduced in London. The issue was not the rights and wrongs of it, but whether it would work. It does work. The main issue is enforcement in relation to foreign-registered vehicles. I was with representatives of Transport for London only today, working out how we can deal with that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jessica Morden Excerpts

Thursday 28th October 2010 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

1. What recent representations he has received on the method of payment of tolls on the Severn bridges; and if he will make a statement.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

The Department for Transport has recently received representations from the Wales Office about the method of payment on the Severn bridges. The Secretary of State has met the Deputy First Minister, and payment methods at the Severn crossings were discussed.

[Jessica Morden]

The facility enabling people to pay with credit and debit cards—for which I was grateful—was introduced in time for the Ryder cup, only to be whisked away again the minute the event was over. That has caused confusion. My constituents would like to pay by modern methods, which is fair enough. Can the Minister assure me that an end to the situation is in sight?

[Mrs Villiers]

I can. I know that a long-running campaign has been conducted by a number of Members.

As the hon. Lady says, the system was introduced for the Ryder cup. We considered it important to meet the deadline, given the significance of the event. The temporary scheme has been withdrawn for the moment, but is due to be back in operation on Friday next week. That gives us a chance to do some more work in order to make it more efficient, but there will be further work to make it more efficient still. We hope to introduce a system in the new year that will not require PINs. The temporary system does require them, and that causes delays and adds to congestion.

Tolls (Severn Bridges)

Jessica Morden Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd June 2010 Westminster Hall

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

I am grateful for the opportunity early in the new Parliament to raise the long-standing issue of the tolls on the Severn bridges and their impact on my constituents and businesses generally in south Wales. I welcome the Minister to his new role. I had a very constructive relationship in the last Parliament with my right hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan), who was then the Minister of State in the Department for Transport. I look forward to continuing such a relationship with this Minister. I am very grateful for the cross-party interest in the issue, which is shown by the turnout at this debate, despite the football. I apologise for the fact that the debate is taking place during the match. It was looking encouraging before I came into the Chamber, but I apologise to those hon. Members who are missing it.

The Severn bridge tolls are expensive, inconvenient and inflexible; we know we are in trouble when we are the butt of jokes on “Gavin and Stacey”. In one famous episode, Smithy nearly missed the birth of his child because he was 10p short when crossing the Severn bridges. People cannot pay by credit card, debit card or online. They cannot travel off peak and there are no concessions for those who live locally. However, the tolls continue to rise year on year, even though the service is outdated.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. She mentioned the cross-party nature of the issue. I am sure that I can agree with what I anticipate she is going to say. She will agree that the issue does not affect just her constituents and the M4 corridor; some geographic spread from west Wales is involved as well, reinforcing the point that this is an all-Wales issue, affecting, particularly at this time of year, the tourism sector and, more generally, the business sector. It does not affect just south Wales, but the whole of Wales. It is a totemic issue affecting the whole Welsh economy.

[Jessica Morden]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and agree that this is an issue for the whole of Wales. In particular, first-time visitors to Wales are an example of that. The issue does have that impact. I receive a bulging postbag on the issue from constituents and businesses and I want to highlight some of the points that they raise with me.

First, will the Minister examine the cost of the tolls? Every year on 1 January, the tolls go up in accordance with the Severn Bridges Act 1992. Under the agreement with Severn River Crossing plc, the company is permitted to collect tolls from both bridges for a concessions period until the project’s target real revenue level is reached or the time limit is up. I understand that at that point, the bridges revert to the Secretary of State’s control.

We are going through tough economic times. Commuters’ hours are being cut and there are pay freezes and high petrol prices, yet the tolls still go up. Severn bridge tolls are among the most expensive in the UK for cars, costing £5.50. My first request to the Minister is that he should examine the issue of toll rises, step in and recommend a freeze in this year’s tolls, particularly in the light of yesterday’s VAT rise. While he is at it, will he also examine whether we could implement a reduction in tolls for those who live locally? That could be worked out by postcode area, for example. Such a scheme has been introduced on the Dartford crossing. It is easier to do on the Humber and the Dartford crossing as there is no concessionaire, but why can we not have a look at doing it in Wales?

The second issue is the payment method for tolls. Currently, people can pay to go over the bridges only by cash, including euros, or by cheque. Those who are unfortunate enough to approach the bridge thinking that they can pay by such new-fangled methods as credit and debit cards are frustrated. Many constituents have regaled me with stories of getting to the tolls, not having the right money, being escorted over the bridge and then being told to go back over the bridge and to go to Gordano services, which is a round trip of about 20 miles. That is hardly a welcome to Wales for first-time visitors and it is not much fun for the long-suffering staff collecting the tolls, who have to put up with frustrated motorists.

[Paul Murphy (Torfaen) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend may not recall that I was a member of the 1992 Bill Committee that dealt with this issue. That was a very long time ago. Is it not right that after 18 years, the whole business of the Severn bridge and its tolls should be brought up to date?

[Jessica Morden]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his intervention. I agree with him. Progress was made on the method of payment of tolls by the previous Minister and it would be helpful if this Minister could confirm exactly when debit and credit card payments will begin and that the card-handling charge will not be passed on to the traveller. I would not expect Tesco to charge me more for paying by card, and I do not see why the bridges should be any different.

That brings me to the impact of the tolls on business in south Wales. The Severn crossing tolls, which are felt by many people to be a tax on entering Wales, are the highest in the UK for all but the largest vehicles. Light goods vehicles pay £10.90, compared with £2.00 for the Dartford crossing and £4.90 on the Humber. The Skye and Forth bridges are free. Heavy goods vehicles must pay £16.30, but on the Humber the charge is £10.90 or £14.60, depending on size. The Dartford crossing charges just £3.70 per heavy goods vehicle, and the Forth and Skye bridges are free.

An example in my constituency of the burden of the tolls is given by Owens Road Services, a long-standing Welsh company with a base in Newport that represents 1% of the total heavy goods vehicle traffic on the crossing. Owens pays £16,000 a month by standing order account and over £200,000 a year. The annual toll increases just come off the company’s bottom line; they are not passed on to customers because contracts have to be renegotiated and times are hard. The crossing represents a charge on the Welsh logistics industry that is not paid by competitors in England.

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. The figures that she has cited illustrate clearly what a burden the tolls are on business. Owens, which also employs many people in my constituency, is really struggling. There is a very fragile situation economically now. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need to have every measure in place to improve the opportunities for businesses to relocate to places such as west Wales, where we know that we need to do as much as we can to help the private sector to grow?

[Jessica Morden]

I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention. I agree with her and hope that the Minister will pick up her point in his closing remarks. The industry is already struggling, with more than 3,000 heavy goods vehicle drivers claiming jobseeker’s allowance in Wales alone.

The previous Government froze the tolls on the Humber crossing after a study of the impact on residents and businesses. There has been no study of the Severn that I am aware of, so please could the Department for Transport work with the Welsh Assembly Government to initiate one?

[Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)]

The hon. Lady is being very generous about interventions. As someone who is himself returning to the House, I congratulate her not only on raising this issue, but on continuing the wonderful record of her predecessor, who raised many of these issues, as the right hon. Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy) will recall.

In relation to the charge, my understanding is that the actual real revenue is not likely to be reached until 2016. Is not the difficulty about abolishing the tolls the fact that the bridge was in essence built by a commercial company at no cost to the Government and was to be funded from the tolls? In that context, my constituents look to the ease of crossing the bridge, rather than having any expectation that in these times the tolls are likely to be either frozen or abolished.

[Jessica Morden]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, but my constituents feel very strongly that the year-on-year increase in the tolls is very unfair on them locally. I promise that I will come to the concession later. I am not claiming that we should scrap all the tolls when the concession expires.

More than 31,000—31,437—heavy goods vehicles use the bridge each week. That is 4,491 a day. There are clear patterns of movement on the crossing, with most vehicles travelling between peak times. It is clear to me that a more flexible pricing structure, with off-peak travel for business, would offer incentives for people to travel at certain times of the day or night. That would reduce congestion, save on emissions and save companies money at the same time. I ask the Minister also to investigate that issue.

Finally, let us look to the future. According to the Highways Agency study of 2008, the current Severn crossings are being maintained at a constant level and require an annual maintenance expenditure of about 20% of the annual income generated from the tolls. In a few years, when the bridges are expected to be turned over to the Highways Agency—it would be helpful if the Minister confirmed the exact thinking at the moment on what that date might be—the agency will receive the revenue without the burden of debt.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this very important debate. Does she agree that it is imperative that the United Kingdom Government should ensure that the public purse is not left with liabilities for long-term repairs after the bridges are returned to public ownership?

[Jessica Morden]

I agree very much with the hon. Gentleman’s point. I know that his party has raised it before.

With the Severn crossing due to come back to public ownership in, say, 2016-17—depending on what the Minister says—the time is right to plan for a smooth transition, with tolls being reduced to a maintenance-only charge. I would appreciate it if the Minister considered the matter. I am really grateful to have had the opportunity of this debate and for the interest shown in it by other hon. Members.

To sum up, I should be grateful if the Minister worked with the Welsh Assembly Government to initiate an economic impact study, stepped in and froze the tolls this year, and looked at things such as off-peak travel for business and concessions for local residents so that we could finally reach a conclusion on the method of payment. As I said, at the start of the new Parliament the time is right, as we approach the end of the concession, to look at what the charges will be after it ends. I am grateful to have had the opportunity to introduce the debate, and I look forward to the Minister’s response.

--- Later in debate ---

[Norman Baker]

I do understand that. I mentioned earlier that it is standard practice for estuary crossings to have tolls, no matter where they are. They limit the journey time and deal with—or compensate for—the geography of the area. While I understand that there is a cost involved that would not be there if a crossing were not necessary, the alternative to a toll crossing would be a much longer diversionary route. That is a matter of geography; I am not downplaying the concerns that hon. Members and others have about the impact. As I said, I welcome any further information that they want to give me on that matter, and I will personally look at it.

[Jessica Morden]

Would the Minister commit to doing an economic impact study on south Wales with the Welsh Assembly Government?

[Norman Baker]

I do not want to commit to that here, but I will happily receive information that is supplied to me, and I will bear in mind that request as and when it comes in.

The Severn Bridges Act 1992 seeks to apply a clear structure to the tolls to give the concessionaire confidence that it will be able to meet its liabilities and manage the risks that it accepted through the concession agreement. The toll levels were set for three categories of vehicles at the time of tender and are embodied in the Act. The Act sets out the tolling arrangements and the basis for yearly increases in the toll rates. Toll rates are fixed in real terms. The new rates are introduced on 1 January each year and are increased in line with the retail price index using a formula, and rounded to the nearest 10p.

I want to stress an important point: the Secretary of State does not have the authority to set the annual tolls below the level of RPI increase without the concessionaire's agreement. The concessionaire would not be able to agree to anything that would affect their net revenue without compensation and agreement from their shareholders and lenders, which would result, if such an agreement were forthcoming, in a cost to the taxpayer.

Tolls are charged in a westbound direction only from England into Wales. The current toll prices are: £5.50 for cars, £10.90 for vans and £16.40 for vehicles over 3.5 tonnes. I do understand hon. Members’ concerns that those are higher than apply in other crossings.

[Norman Baker]

I am very happy to have dialogue with my counterpart or anyone else in the Welsh Assembly if they wish to do so. The issue has just been raised for the first time with the new Government—this is the first Adjournment debate on it. I am perfectly open to suggestions of dialogue with people from Wales or elsewhere on issues for which my Department is responsible.

I want to talk about VAT, which was raised by the hon. Member for Newport East. When VAT was first applied to the crossings in 2003, following a European Court ruling, there was no increase in the toll to the motorist. Following the Chancellor's statement yesterday, the Highways Agency will discuss adjustments within the concession to accommodate the new 20% VAT rate with Severn River Crossing plc. We do not expect the VAT increase to be passed on through an increase in the tolls, but the concessionaire expects to receive a certain amount of money, and the way in which that can be accommodated without increasing tolls is a matter for negotiation.

I know that the hon. Member for Newport East has an interest in local discount schemes, to which she referred in her opening remarks. Any discounts or exemptions are a matter for the concessionaire to decide, provided that they comply with existing legislation. Where that is not the case, such schemes cannot be introduced without changes to primary legislation and the concession agreement. They would have a financial impact on the concession and the period required for repayment, which would impact all road users. Discounts of around 20% for regular and frequent users are offered by way of a season TAG, whereas blue badge holders and the emergency services are exempt.

I now turn to the matter of card payments, which I know the hon. Lady pursued before the election and, with some justification, can claim to have had some success on in her campaign. In March this year, an amendment was made to the Severn Bridges Regulations 1996 to allow card payments at the tollbooths. She will recognise that there are associated costs with the introduction of card payments, mainly bank transaction charges, which are estimated to be between £7 million and £10 million to the end of the concession, or approximately £1 million per year depending on usage. Implementation is expected to cost around £1.2 million, and the way in which the additional costs will be funded has yet to be agreed. Discussions with the concessionaire to resolve the financial issues regarding the introduction of credit card payments are ongoing, but work to amend the tolling software to allow for the processing of credit and debit cards has started.

One of the drivers—no pun intended—that the hon. Lady will be aware of is the Ryder cup, one of the highest profile sporting events in the world. It is due to be held in Newport between 27 September and 3 October this year, with about 50,000 visitors a day, the majority of whom will come from overseas and will not be flush with money in their pockets to pay the tolls. We want to make progress on the matter, and I hope to have it resolved before the Ryder cup begins. My officials assure me that that will be the case, and I will look into the matter to ensure that that is so.

An hon. Member also raised the issue of motorists being sent back after driving some way and finding that they could not pay by card. I understand that signs are in place close to the bridge, before the last junction, advising motorists of the current arrangements, which is that they can pay only in cash. However, if they arrive at the tolls, I have been assured that they do not necessarily have to make a U-turn; they can be issued with an invoice with an added administration fee of £5. The problem with turning motorists back has been recognised, and that is being dealt with in the way I described as an interim measure. If that was new information to Members present, I hope that that was helpful.

Regarding maintenance, the concessionaire is required to maintain both Severn crossings in accordance with the concession agreement. A rigorous schedule of inspections is carried out and regular review meetings are held between the concessionaire and the Highways Agency.

A programme of cable inspections on the first Severn bridge began in April 2006 after corrosion was found in the suspension cables of bridges of a similar age and construction in other parts of the world. Unfortunately, significant levels of corrosion were found and a programme of works to tackle the corrosion followed. A full dehumidification system has been installed to address the corrosion. The system, which pumps dry air into the cables to reduce humidity, has been operational since December 2008. Reports show that humidity levels within the main cable are below the target level of 40% relative humidity. In addition, an acoustic monitoring system has been installed to track the rate and location of any further deterioration. A second round of inspections is currently under way to gain a detailed understanding of the level of corrosion and to verify the success of the dehumidification process so far. That work is due for completion later this year.

The corrosion of the main cables is a defect that existed before the letting of the concession and unfortunately—from my point of view—is not covered by the concession agreement. Costs associated with this work will therefore be met by the Government. The programme of mitigation and inspection work carried out so far has cost the Government £15 million, with the second round of inspections costing us a further £4 million.

Reports in the local media—and a letter from a Member of the National Assembly for Wales—suggest that the concessionaire will hand back the crossings in a state of disrepair. The suggestion was made earlier that, once the concession ends, the taxpayer will have to foot the bill. Let me make it clear, the concessionaire is bound by the legal terms of the concession, which it signed, to maintain the crossings to an acceptable standard. When the concession ends, the concessionaire is required to carry out any necessary maintenance and repair works on the crossings prior to handover. That is a legally binding commitment and is what I expect them to do.

[Jessica Morden]

Does the Minister have an indication of the year in which the concession will end?

[Norman Baker]

I am coming to that. The concession agreement sets out the requirements for transfer of the crossings to the Secretary of State at the end of the concession period. The concession is currently predicted to end in the first half of 2017, when the sum defined in the 1992 Act will have been collected through tolling. The bridges will then be returned to the Secretary of State. However, in order to ensure that tolls do not rise further, there are additional costs that have to be absorbed, both through the VAT increase and the work to ensure that credit cards can be accepted. I am giving the best estimate—it might slip slightly in the light of those two matters, but that is not certain at this stage.