Income Tax (Charge)

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 28th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

That is a very good intervention. Labour Front Benchers were urging that £170 million from the UK taxpayer be given to a business that we now know has been recapitalised, has money from private creditors and is still operating. It would have been a disaster to sign away £170 million directly in the way they urged.

In conclusion, the Budget is a blueprint for a stronger Britain: a country where those with innovative ideas will get the support they need to turn them from dream to reality; a country where those whose talent is nurtured and whose skills are honed will get support, ongoing interest and strong engagement from the Government; a country where those who do an honest day’s work will receive a decent wage. We have every right to be confident about our future. We have listened to the litany of woe and despair for too long and, as my right hon. Friend the Chancellor said yesterday, we are optimistic and excited about the future of our country. Only a week ago at the global investment summit, people from across the world were desperate to invest in the UK; they believe in their bones that the UK is a great place to do business.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) and I hope to have a meeting with you shortly on hydrogen and how it can be used to advance this great United Kingdom. Can you confirm exactly how it will benefit every part of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I remind the hon. Gentleman that he cannot address the Minister as “Minister”; he has to address him as “the right hon. Gentleman” or say “would the Minister?”, because when he says “Minister” that is second person, vocative case. He cannot say “Minister.” Other Members might know that the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and I have been having this conversation now for several years and it is my ambition that he will get it right, and one day he will.

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[Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones) on a powerful and excellent speech. As a representative of a coalfield area myself, in County Durham, I express my solidarity with colleagues from Wales who have raised the issue of unsafe coal tips and the need for funding. It is poignant that my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd mentioned the terrible disaster at Aberfan. I know that it touched many hearts throughout the nation, including that of our sovereign. It was the most appalling tragedy. We must never, ever forget the debt of honour that the nation owes the coalminers and their families and communities. Although it is not the focus of my speech, I am also disappointed by the failure of the Chancellor to address the historic injustice of the mineworkers’ pension scheme. It is not a case of demanding more public money, as the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Dr Mullan), who is no longer in his place, claimed. This is the miners’ own money. That this historical injustice has not been addressed cuts to the quick those of us with mining connections.

The broad theme of this debate is people in businesses. I will confine my remarks essentially to cancer, which is the most dreadful business. I know that the Treasury Bench is populated by Ministers with a background in science, innovation and workforce skills, and I hope they will relay my comments to their colleagues in the Department of Health and Social Care. I declare an interest as vice-chair of the all-party parliamentary groups on cancer and on radiotherapy. Access to cancer services is an issue that has touched me personally and about which I care passionately. About 50% of us will suffer and battle against cancer at some point in our lives.

A week ago, I joined my hon. Friend the Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi), my right hon. Friend the Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami), and, from the other place, Baron Fox of Leominster, and representatives from national cancer charities, cancer survivors and the cancer workforce, to deliver a petition and a letter to No. 10 Downing Street. The petition was signed by over 53,000 people. The letter, sent on behalf of a coalition of national cancer charities, patient advocacy groups, 64 MPs of all parties, peers and APPG chairs, called on the Government to invest urgently in our vital cancer workforce ahead of the Budget. A few months earlier, just before the recess, I presented to Downing Street a petition set up by Catchup With Cancer which was signed by over 370,000 people. That campaign was launched in conjunction with Craig and Mandy Russell, to whom I pay tribute. Tragically, they lost their daughter to bowel cancer at the age of just 31. Her life expectancy was drastically cut short after her cancer treatment was stopped as a direct result of the covid-19 response.

Even before the pandemic, at 62 days, we had the worst cancer waiting times on record and worrying variations in cancer services across the United Kingdom. The pandemic has not just laid bare the terrible strain on the cancer workforce, which has been happening for a number of years, but has driven cancer services to crisis point. It is reported that significant numbers of nurses are leaving or planning to leave our NHS following the pandemic. One in four NHS staff in England say they are now more likely to leave their job than was the case one year ago. In addition, long-standing unfilled vacancies and high staff absence and sickness levels continue to constrain cancer services. I am a great admirer of Professor Patricia Price, who appeared before the Health Committee earlier this week and spoke of

“the biggest cancer crisis in living memory”.

To give credit where it is due, the emphasis on cancer diagnostic services in the Budget is welcome. It matches the ambitions set out in the NHS long-term plan of diagnosing 75% of cancers at stage 1 or 2 by 2028. The projections are that 55,000 people each year will survive for five years or more following their earlier cancer diagnosis. However—I must regretfully, with due respect, take issue again with points raised by Conservative Members—we need greater clarity on exactly how the money is to be spent. Unless the boost in cancer diagnosis is matched by an equal boost in treatment services and investment in the workforce to deliver those services, they will continue to fall far short of the Government’s stated ambition. The future of the workforce is now the most significant threat facing the NHS today. We need investment in equipment needed for treatments such as advanced precision radiotherapy, which I have benefited from and which plays a vital role in cancer care and has continued to be the stand-out cancer treatment during the pandemic.

Make no mistake, the cancer backlog is a huge issue. Without a fully funded plan to increase the number of skilled staff and train the future cancer workforce, more patients will see their treatments unnecessarily delayed. Investment in cancer treatment services and the cancer workforce needs to be expanded to match investment in cancer diagnosis. The two are hand in —two wings of the same bird.

[Jim Shannon]

You need both wings to fly.

[Grahame Morris]

Precisely. We must ensure that people living with cancer get the support they need and deserve now and in the future.

The specifics are that according to the cancer charity Macmillan, we are 2,500 specialist cancer nurses short in England. Macmillan is urging the Government to take action and create a nurse cancer training fund, which could be set up with a modest investment of £124 million. That would train 3,300 specialist cancer nurses. When we think about the many billions spent on the test, track and trace system, the investment of a fraction of that sum in cancer treatment—modest as far as the budgets are concerned— would command majority support, not just on the Opposition Benches, but in the whole House and the country.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

May I first say a big thank you to the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and the Government for all the help that they gave us—I say “us”; that is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland—during the covid crisis? The moneys that have been spent are enormous—we know that—and they are the reason why many of the businesses in my constituency are here today. Help was given at the time that it was needed. This Budget follows that, and every one of us has to recognise what has happened before and what happens now.

I was thinking beforehand about how I would refer to the Budget and I was reminded of a saying that I have probably used before in this Chamber. The Budget is a bit of a curate’s egg: good in parts. I am a person who eats two eggs in the morning and two eggs at night, so I know how to eat me eggs. You have to eat the yolk and you have to eat the white as well, because they are both part of the egg. Now, what is the best of the egg? It is the yolk. I am going to speak about the best parts of the egg, but there are also parts of the egg we may not enjoy as much and we should recognise that. [Interruption.] I hear from a sedentary position, “Don’t eat the shell.” [Laughter.]

I chair the all-party parliamentary group on respiratory health, so I want to talk about some of the good things in relation to respiratory health. I was delighted to hear the announcement in the Budget that money has been set aside for community diagnostic centres. The Government announced that 40 new community diagnostic centres are set to open across England in a range of settings, from local shopping centres to football stadiums, to offer new and early diagnostic tests closer to patients’ homes. To roll out the strategy, the new centres will be backed by a £350 million investment and provide around 2.8 million scans in their first full year of operation. They are designed to assist with earlier diagnosis through faster and easier access to diagnostic tests for symptoms, including breathlessness, cancer and ophthalmology. The Chancellor also announced, through the health budget, additional moneys to tackle the backlog of diagnostic tests to deliver more checks, scans and treatment.

Those are some of the good things that have happened. The Government set a target of 100 centres across the whole of the United Kingdom, so I put on record my thanks to the Chancellor for making that very welcome announcement through the Department of Health and Social Care. I understand that each of the centres will include a multi-disciplinary team of staff, including nurses and radiographers, and will be open seven days a week. If those commitments are delivered—I hope they will be and I trust the Government to do that—we will have something we can be very thankful for. The all-party group warmly welcomes the creation of the centres and the funding allocated to them. I hope they can help to address the covid-imposed inequalities that we have seen across the country in asthma and lung cancer care and treatment. They should provide additional confidence to patients, and relieve pressures on the secondary and tertiary care appointments system. We also welcome the inclusion of breathlessness diagnostics in the centres. We think it is essential that the centres will be equipped to diagnose any cause of breathlessness, whether it is cardiovascular, lung cancer, asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. We have sent some questions directly to the relevant Health Minister to follow up on that.

The hon. Member for Ceredigion (Ben Lake) mentioned the need to retrofit homes. He is absolutely right. I am also the chair of the all-party parliamentary group for healthy homes and buildings. We need to address the efficiency of older homes, but every home across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will be targeted in this energy crisis. We need a better system of retrofitting homes, making them more efficient and addressing the energy crisis. I think we can do more. That is a part of the curate’s egg that has perhaps not been addressed and I hope the Minister, in summing up, can provide some kind of indication on that.

I very much welcome the Government’s innovation targets, which the Secretary of State referred to earlier. On green energy, I made a point about hydrogen. I will be meeting him shortly with my hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley). We will put forward some ideas on hydrogen to create jobs and boost the economy, so we can look to the future. Again, those are some of the good things.

Many hon. Members mentioned air passenger duty and I have to say, with respect, that I do not agree with them. For those of us who live in Northern Ireland, I am very happy that the Chancellor announced a reduction in air passenger duty. I travel to work from Belfast to here, but it is not just me. On Monday, the plane was almost full, with very few seats left. Many of those people were also travelling to work. APD has been reduced, so there is an incentive for people in Belfast, Scotland and elsewhere in this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland—money in their pockets. The planes will fly anyway, whether there are 30 or 120 people on them.

The benefit from APD is for the regions of this United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and that is a method of levelling up that we can all take advantage of. We as a party have been asking, I believe, for three years for this APD measure to be brought in, so we are very pleased on behalf of our constituents and those who travel to work from Northern Ireland and to the United Kingdom. Here is something good for them.

I also welcome the £1.6 billion—my right hon. Friend the Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) referred to that yesterday—that has been set aside for Northern Ireland through the Barnett formula. These moneys will be vital for the Northern Ireland Assembly, for the working of the regional Administration and to help to address the issues, shortcomings and problems with health, education, roads, policing and so on. Again, the Government have been very generous and we are very pleased to be in receipt of that £1.6 billion; it is a real increase. There is also a real increase in expenditure, as my right hon. Friend said, and those are some of the things that we will wish to keep track of. I think there may be some other Barnett consequential money coming through the health budget that was announced, so we are very pleased.

The hon. Member for Ceredigion spoke about universal credit as well—it just so happens that he and I have similar thoughts on this matter—and I was disappointed that the £20 uplift has been removed. However, given what the Chancellor seemed to indicate yesterday—if I have read it right, and I have asked people in my constituency to look at the figures to see whether this is correct—if people can still be in receipt of universal credit and earn more, that will enable some, and I hope all, of my constituents to take advantage of universal credit and, at the same time, increase the hours that they are doing. The taper rate change seems to mean that people can earn more and still be in receipt of universal credit, if I have read that correctly. I will check it out, because that only became known yesterday, but I am, certainly initially, very pleased to see that in place.

On the curate’s egg, one thing that I am disappointed is missing, which is very important to my constituents, is an uplift in the child benefit cap for those working families who receive no Government help other than child benefit and whose children will receive no help for uniform, school meals, university fees or anything else. The fact is that they are living on less disposable income, with higher gas, car and electricity costs, and I am disappointed that the child benefit cap has remained for a further year. I say respectfully to the Ministers on the Front Bench—the Financial Secretary to the Treasury and the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith)—who I have the utmost respect for, that middle-class people will be squeezed. I have asked for an uplift in the child benefit cap. If that was part of the Budget, it would enable some middle-class people not to be squeezed as much, and if they were able to take advantage of that, it would definitely make a difference.

I have two grandchildren who were born during the covid lockdown, and five grandchildren in total. Many in this House have grandchildren and their own children. I believe that my covid lockdown grandchildren will be paying for this in their taxes until the end of their lives and probably until the end of their children’s lives, so I want to make sure that every penny is well spent. Although I welcome the large amount, I question the situation for middle-class families: I believe that more can and should be done to bring relief to working families who get no help other than child benefit. Their shopping costs have risen by 20% and their fuel costs have risen by 30%, yet they cannot take a pay rise of a couple of thousand pounds because they would lose a percentage of their child benefit. What they are given with one hand is taken away with the other. It would have been better to raise the child benefit cap to ensure that they, too, could get some advantage. They are no longer comfortable, but stretched: stretched in their precious time with their children, stretched in their finances, stretched in their energy. I fear that, at some stage, that stretch will lead to a break. I believe that we must do more to help them.

This is a curate’s egg Budget: good in parts. Let us enjoy the yolk and enjoy the white part; they are all good, but some parts are better than others.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

We will now start the wind-ups.

Artificial Intelligence

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 20th October 2021 Westminster Hall

[Nick Fletcher (Don Valley) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the future impact of artificial intelligence on the economy and society.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Davies. I called for this debate because artificial intelligence will very soon affect every aspect of our lives. The past demonstrates that everyone will willingly allow this to happen—just look at the rise of the internet algorithm. We willingly hand over our data, enabling service providers to produce complex algorithms that sell us more products and get us to click on specific websites. The question cannot be whether we stop the rise of AI; it should be whether it can be effectively regulated. Naturally, I was pleased that the Government published their national AI strategy last month, which at least began the conversation about how we can manage this technology so that it benefits our economy, workforce and society.

Let me give some examples, starting with the driverless car. We must realise that it will probably not be long before insurance companies acknowledge that fewer accidents will occur than in man-driven vehicles. Furthermore, research suggests that advances in technology will enable X-rays directed by AI to diagnose cancer far more quickly and far more accurately than the best of our consultants.

While some of these technologies may seem far off, they have already taken over many unskilled low-paid jobs. After all, it was not that long ago that we ordered McDonald’s coffee in person. Then, one day we were met with a giant screen. Personally, knowing full well the implications of that over time, I deliberately went to the counter and ordered my coffee in person to protect people’s jobs. I did so until one day when the counter was not manned and a nice lady stood next to the giant iPad and said, “Come on. Use this.” Now, every time I go to McDonald’s, I use the giant screen. The nice lady has gone. That is the crux of the issue. AI technology is often introduced to aid the pre-existing workforce. Yet, just like McDonald’s, managers eventually realise that their workforce can be replaced wholesale, and the AI technology is what is left—doing what humans were doing, but doing it better.

Let us take another example: mowing the lawn. While many people find gardening a chore, our desire to keep pristine gardens means that the gardening and landscape business can employ 160,000 people. Yet, as those people retire they are likely to be replaced by artificial intelligence technology as it becomes more capable, because employers will not be liable to provide sickness pay or holidays. AI can cut grass; how long before it can cut hedges and pick soft fruits?

Throughout covid, we have seen the classroom change too. Am I saying that we should remove the teacher? Of course not, but with the rise of AI will we always need teaching assistants, administrative staff or examination boards? I do not know the answer, but it is essential that we start asking these questions.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is important to have a debate on this subject and Westminster Hall is a great place to have it. UK GDP could be up to 10.3% higher by 2030 because of artificial intelligence and its impacts from consumption-side product enhancements, and more importantly as a result of widening consumer choice and making available more affordable bespoke goods. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is time that the Government, especially the Minister, backed the AI brokers by ensuring that there is a skilled workforce? There is a workforce to be formed out of AI, and that is what we should be focusing on.

[Nick Fletcher]

I thank the hon. Member for that intervention and I will come on to exactly those points later.

I do not think that a red wall Conservative can ever make a speech without mentioning Brexit and trade deals. In light of Brexit, AI will probably be more utilised than ever before to move goods across borders. In warfare, too, the rise of drones to maintain and expand our geopolitical influence is already apparent, yet drone technology is already being used in combination with AI and we see armies across the world, from France to Russia, using AI-controlled drones in conflicts.

Let me reflect briefly on the Departments that could be affected by the examples that I have given: Transport; Health; Work and Pensions; the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy; Education; the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs; the Department for International Trade; and the Treasury. It is quite a list. So, what is the problem? Well, it is what I want to highlight today, so that, as parliamentarians and as a Government, we can start to have a frank and honest discussion on this issue.

First and perhaps most worryingly, the rise of AI technology is likely to decimate people’s jobs. I have heard it said, “Well, people have threatened that before,” and looking at the unemployment figures we see that Britain had some of the lowest unemployment figures ever before the pandemic. However, this new AI revolution will be different from the industrial revolution when it comes to employment.

As a result of the massive expansion of AI in many sectors, AI will affect many people’s lives and pretty much every job sector. AI will infiltrate everything, everywhere. And just as with internet algorithms, we will all be willing participants. Will it happen overnight? No. It will take time. As I have already alluded to, there has been increasing use of AI for many years. However, the gradual rise of this technology means that policy makers, the Government and the public are not aware of its creeping challenges. Little by little, we as a society are becoming more dependent on it, and little by little it is making life’s many tasks more manageable.

So, which jobs will be affected and—more importantly —when? Let us start with jobs in call centres and fast food restaurants, as well as driving jobs, which, yes, means every taxi driver, every delivery driver and every HGV driver. In total, that amounts to over 600,000 people. Warehouse workers, shop assistants, postal workers, parking attendants—the figure for all those jobs is over 3 million people. If that was it and the list did not expand further into security, education, health and defence, I am confident that a forward-thinking Conservative Government could manage such economic stresses. Yet even when we are discussing the jobs that are most at risk, we must remember that employees in such jobs are often younger people, so our young people’s future is most at risk. One of my biggest beliefs is that the devil makes work for idle hands and the worst idle hands are young ones. A young person with no job often believes that they have no value. Although that is not true by any stretch of the imagination, we cannot have an entirely new generation of young people thinking it about themselves.

I am sure that many people who are interested in this subject are fully aware of the game Go and the experiment to see whether AlphaGo, an AI programme, could beat a renowned Go player, Lee Sedol. For those people who do not know, Go is apparently one of the hardest games in the world to play, with an almost infinite number of moves and, most importantly, no real patterns for AI to follow. Consequently, many people were amazed that AI won the first three games. Personally, I never doubted that it would. Yet what struck me was Lee Sodol’s reaction. When he lost the third game, it seemed to destroy him. To me, he looked empty—a person with no value. Now, if an educated man of that calibre can be made to feel worthless because of the abilities of an AI programme, we can imagine what future generations trying to enter the workforce may feel like as a result of AI.

Lee Sodol won the fourth game, which brought his pride back, despite the fact that he then lost the fifth game. It should also be mentioned that AlphaGo went on to beat every other competitor while playing them all at the same time. To me, that proves not only the infinite capability of AI, but the damage that it may do to individuals, unless we look ahead and consider ways in which we can use AI while still keeping people feeling valued within our workforce.

That brings me to the national AI strategy. Pillar 1 of the strategy, “Investing in the long-term needs of the AI ecosystem,” talks extensively about the lack of AI skills within the economy. An AI Council survey found that only 18% of 413 respondents from the fields of academia, business and the public sector believed that there was sufficient provision of training and development in AI skills for our workforce. Clearly, there is an AI skills shortage.

However, while the strategy mentions the “Skills for Jobs” White Paper, published in January this year, and states that it will work to ensure businesses have the necessary skills to utilise AI technology through the skills value chain, it offers little in acknowledging the huge problem before us. The industries I have mentioned employ nearly 4 million people, most of whose jobs are to be made essentially redundant in the coming years. A reskilling scheme from the Department for Education, here and there, will not tackle the issue at hand and ensure that millions of individuals, many of whom we currently consider skilled workers, will not become unemployed over the course of this century.

If we have learned anything about the levelling-up agenda, it is that people in places such as Don Valley want to have jobs that provide value and meaning to their lives. Let there be no mistake: unless we sufficiently equip huge numbers of our workforce over the coming years, many will never secure work, let alone skilled, meaningful work. Getting this right is key to the Government maximising the impact of their levelling-up agenda. A good start may be establishing a new college in Don Valley that specialises in coding. I say to the Minister, let our economic revolution begin in Doncaster.

That is the employment issue covered, but if AI touches every aspect of our lives, then why not the democratic process itself? We recognise that individuals, myself especially, are not infallible. MPs make mistakes, and Governments too. People sometimes initially vote against what seems to be their own interest, yet despite this we accept that democracy is the best form of Government or, as Churchill said,

“democracy is the worst form of government—except for all the others”.

If we accept that AI can apparently make more efficient decisions, what role does that leave for MPs and even for the ordinary voter?

AI challenges how the state should be run, what the public wants or what piece of AI technology it believes is most efficient. I welcome that the Government have committed to a strategy to work with international partners on shaping international norms and standards relating to AI, which puts the shared values of freedom, fairness and democracy at the heart of the development of this technology. Can the Minister let the House know exactly how democracy will be underpinned through such work? Can he inform those listening to the debate what work is currently being done with the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office to come to an internationally binding agreement that ensures artificial intelligence will not be developed in a way that will subvert the democratic process?

It is important that we begin these discussions now, because the rise of AI is inevitable. We cannot stop it and history teaches us that every move to oppose the rise of technology is doomed. That is why we had an industrial revolution, while the Luddites became a mere footnote. AI is already here and both hostile countries and our allies are using it. Therefore, we must engage with this technology if we are to maintain our position as a leading world economy. It is fantastic news that the Government have begun to think about balancing regulation with innovation in the national AI strategy, yet we need to do much more if we are to avoid facing severe societal and economic destruction as a result of this emerging new technology.

I finish by stating that I know this debate is difficult for the Minister. I will be the first to admit that I do not have the answers to the problems posed, but I look forward to working with the Minister and stakeholders in order to fully utilise the benefits of AI, as well as mitigate its inevitable effects. The Minister will no doubt agree that it is important for us to recover from covid, with the entire global economy in mind. In the light of that, we must work with our international partners, just as we have done to beat covid, to work on regulation of AI so our democratic way of life is preserved.

In conclusion, when it comes to AI, I first ask the Minister and the Department to continue to embrace this technology and work with businesses to ensure there is adequate research and development investment in this industry. Secondly, I stress to the Minister how important it is to integrate AI within the levelling-up agenda. The Government should therefore plan ahead so that young people in places such as Don Valley get the technical skills at college to build artificial intelligence programmes in the future. Lastly, while embracing AI, the Government should be wary of its potential to cause disruption within society and should mitigate any negative effects of this emerging technology.

Net Zero Strategy and Heat and Buildings Strategy

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 19th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Greg Hands]

The chair designate of COP26 says that carbon border adjustment mechanisms will not be part of the discussions at COP26, but the UK is closely watching that debate. We are looking at the European Union proposals. Of course, we need to ensure that they are World Trade Organisation-compatible and that they do not discriminate against the developing world, particularly much less developed countries. The CBAMs debate is very much alive and we continue to study it very closely indeed.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his announcement and his clear commitment to all regions of the United Kingdom, particularly to Northern Ireland. I welcome the strategy and the decision to end the sale of gas boilers by 2035. What incentives can the Minister offer to builders currently developing to make those changes to new builds now, not to wait until 2034 to change that skills base and ability? Is upskilling part of the Government’s agenda?

[Greg Hands]

Upskilling is very much part of the Government’s agenda. On how the heat pump ready programme will be operating, if I understand it correctly, that is a Northern Ireland-only scheme, but we have seen that scheme in operation and it will help to inform the England and Wales scheme. The scheme will also support the Government’s target of 600,000 installations a year by 2028, which also covers Northern Ireland.

Post Office Closures

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 19th October 2021 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate. There has not been a debate on post office closures that I have not attended or spoken in on behalf of my constituents.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

And many other topics.

[Jim Shannon]

There are many things that interest me.

I thank the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) for securing the debate. She has been a real champion of this issue, and we thank her for giving us all the opportunity to participate. It is a real pleasure to see the Minister in his place, because he understands the importance of post offices. I am sure that he will encapsulate our feelings about post offices, so I look forward to his reply.

Historically, post offices have been central hubs of both rural and urban communities, but. like others, I want to draw attention to their importance to rural communities. I am fortunate that, over a period of time, I have had the opportunity to engage with post offices directly and may be able to chart a way forward. The hon. Lady referred to the closure of Spar shops; I am going to speak about the Spar shops that have given opportunities to the post offices across Northern Ireland. My hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) will also be able to contribute to the discussion. I am absolutely sure that post offices in rural communities and in housing estates have been a vital point for social interaction and accessibility. I will give some examples of just how important this is for people.

There is always a little feeling of dread when I get an email detailing amendments to post office services. I dread the news that services are going to be cut, although, thankfully, such news has not been prevalent recently, probably because of the engagement between post offices and major supermarkets in Northern Ireland to ensure that that we can defer potential closures and cuts. The co-operation with the Spar Henderson group in Northern Ireland has meant that there are many more basic post office functions available in our petrol stations and stores. I am incredibly thankful for that, but they do not provide the full range of services or the same expertise as dedicated post offices. It is clear that demands for the service require the retention of stand-alone post offices, as well as these smaller, satellite offices.

[Mr Campbell]

On the issue of not providing a full range of services, does my hon. Friend agree with me that we need to look to the future? In the past, the Post Office did innovate to some degree with the support of previous Governments, but just as we see credit unions evolving in terms of financial services, we now need to look ahead to the bigger picture over the next 10 to 15 years, and to allow post offices to innovate and evolve to serve the community better in financial services.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention, which encapsulates what we all feel about how post offices have an integral part to play in the future. We look to the Minister for indication of his vision for the future of post offices, and the importance of having them as an integral part of local communities.

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)]

One of the issues in my constituency is that when one post office closes, rumours start about all the other post offices; I am sure we all feel that. Because of the uncertainty and the precarious environment that post offices are operating in right now, it is very hard to get anybody to invest in them and keep them going. Talking about the long-term future, the Government either have to accept and admit that there is no future for post offices, or they have to legislate to protect the long-term future of the post offices in all our constituencies.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. When the Minister sets out his vision for post offices, as I hope he will, he has to retore confidence in the post offices so that they can see a future for themselves financially and viably.

Yesterday morning I had a lady in my office thanking my staff for persevering with her attendance allowance form. She had been notified that her appeal had been upheld. I listened as my staff members reminded her that this additional money was hers, and that she should use it to make her life easier—to get a cleaner or to help pay for a taxi rather than walking everywhere. She said something that struck me and was very important: “I will get a taxi to get my post office money.” It was very clear what she was saying. “I can’t use this card stuff, and they help me to get my cash where I can get all my bills sorted. I don’t know what I will do when they don’t do cash anymore.”

This is replicated dozens of times across my constituency, and I know it is replicated across all of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The availability of the help and support that post office staff provide to vulnerable people in our communities cannot be overstated. That lady also said that her life would be turned upside down if she could not get her pension and her money sorted. She said, “The girl in the post office put some money on my gas and electric, and my TV licence bill. She does it all.” This lady is in close contact with the people in the post office. I am so thankful for all those staff who take the time to do what those in a busy petrol filling station simply cannot; I mean no disrespect to them, but it does underline the importance of post offices.

With more and more bank branches closing down, the role of the post office for vulnerable people and for businesses that cannot lodge cash easily without it is more vital than ever, so I urge the Government to ensure that we play our part in the retention of post office services. We should remember that although a large number of people operate online for the majority of things, there is also a large vulnerable section of society who do not operate online and who are frightened to do so because of security concerns. Again, I seek the Minister’s reassurance in relation to this security issue. I will give him another example, which concerns one of my constituents, because I do not believe that the vulnerability of some elderly people to scams can be underlined enough.

Only last month, a man in my constituency lost a substantial amount of his savings because he was scammed through an online system. Many of our older people and other vulnerable people are increasingly refusing to try any online payments, just because they are not sure whether they have the security that they need so much. My parliamentary aide’s mother had a discussion with her private pension provider regarding the transfer of a bulk payment. Coincidentally, that afternoon she received a message on her phone, apparently from HMRC, regarding an outstanding tax bill. Let us be quite clear—HMRC does not make telephone calls to tell people about tax bills. If someone receives such a call or message, it is a scam, and that is a fact. Indeed, I received a phone call here at Parliament just before the recess, telling me to contact a particular number immediately in relation to something similar. I contacted my accountant and asked him about it, and he said, “Jim, HMRC do not contact you about any HMRC business by phone. They will contact you by letter. If you get a phone call supposedly from them, it’s a scam.” He was quite clear about that.

The mother of my parliamentary aide, Naomi, rang her, and Naomi told her mother to do nothing about the message until she had looked at it. It was a scam, but one timed in such a way as to be believable. Not everyone has a child who understands the tax system so well that they can spot a scam, which perhaps underlines the importance of this issue.

Fears about these issues make people’s ability to head to their local post office and have a local, friendly staff member help them to pay their bills safely and to get things sorted out vital. How important it is to have the accessibility to that service from someone an individual knows and who has a face they recall and trust—trust that has been built up over many years. I believe that every speaker today will endorse that.

The post office is vital. It is okay to have all the other shops and petrol stations where people have access to a post office service, but people also need to have someone they know. Post offices give that reassurance, so they are vital, and we must do our part to protect them. In doing so, we must protect our service provision, which is even more important for our elderly community, who rely on it and cannot do without it.

[Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair)]

Finally, I call Kirsten Oswald to speak.

Gas Prices and Energy Suppliers

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 23rd September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

We have been dealing with green deal cases on a case-by-case basis. I have not been informed of the specific details that the hon. Lady describes but, with my officials, I would be happy to meet her to discuss the particulars of this individual case.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

This is almost a perfect storm: gas prices that have risen due to the maintenance projects that were rescheduled for 2021 because of the pandemic; lower-than-usual gas supply from Russia; and less liquefied natural gas reaching Europe because of increased deliveries to Asia. How can the Government assist when most of these factors are beyond our control? Is it realistic to hope that consumers will see a reduction in their bills within the next year?

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

The hon. Gentleman has given a pithy summary of the various causes of the energy price spike, one that is very realistic; it is a global phenomenon. What I have said repeatedly is that what the Government can do is ensure two things: that customers have continuity of supply, through the well-established SOLR process; and that we are resolutely focused on keeping the energy price cap, so that consumers—our constituents—are protected from those exorbitant price spikes.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 21st September 2021 Commons Chamber

[George Freeman]

On Gloucestershire Day, it is a great pleasure to take that question from my hon. Friend, and the answer is yes.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Renewables are very important everywhere across the United Kingdom, but one of the problems for renewables is getting access to the grid. The Electric Storage Company in Northern Ireland has told me that if that was improved, energy could be stored for access to the grid. Can the Secretary of State tell us what he could do to make that happen?

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

I would like to hear more from the hon. Gentleman about this, and I am very happy to meet him to talk about it.

UK Gas Market

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 20th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

We have consistently, in our discussions on net zero and in our attempt to decarbonise the economy, sought to protect the most vulnerable of our constituents. He will know that I am seeking to protect the schemes he mentioned and, if possible, to enhance them.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Gas users in towns and rural areas throughout Northern Ireland face a 35% increase in the cost of gas. One in five families in Northern Ireland is in fuel poverty. It is clear that this is fast becoming a cold and long winter for the working poor on the poverty line. How will the Secretary of State and the Government give the assistance that will surely be needed for those who need it the most?

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

My hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd South (Simon Baynes) mentioned the warm home discount and the winter fuel payments; we try to protect the most vulnerable with lots of such schemes. On the call I had earlier, I was delighted to see Citizens Advice, which is particularly aware of such issues. I am very prepared to engage with the hon. Gentleman to see how his constituents and Northern Ireland can withstand what may well be a long and difficult winter.

Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 7th September 2021 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Member for Fylde (Mark Menzies) for raising this important issue. We are all interested in this issue—that is why we are here—but it is also an issue that we cannot ignore, because of the importance of the subject matter. I have raised this topic on a number of occasions, and my position on it has been clear. I am pleased to see the Minister in her place, and I look forward to her response, as I always do. I should put on record that I have supported nuclear power all of my political life, in this Chamber, in the Assembly and formerly in the council as well.

My position has been solidified by the push, the correct push, for greener energy where possible, within the confines of the cost, which we cannot ignore either. I was reading in the press recently that, if you ask people whether they are in favour of green energy, the majority will answer, “Yes, we are.” When you tell them that supporting green energy may mean a 10% or 15% increase in their energy prices, all of a sudden what it means for people becomes much more real. It is important that we pursue green energy, but—it is a debate for another day, to be fair—we cannot ignore the implications of some of our decisions.

I recently read, in a briefing by EDF Energy, that nuclear is the only proven, reliable low-carbon electricity source and that it is vital to achieve our climate targets and create highly qualified jobs, mostly outside London, as part of the Government’s levelling-up agenda. I see some Members here who are very supportive—indeed, we are all supportive—of the levelling-up agenda, but we want to see what it will mean for our constituents. I would very much like to see Northern Ireland being part of the levelling-up agenda on this issue, as part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland—as I always say, Mr Betts, better together. I know that the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown) would wholly endorse that; I am surprised he has not said, “Hear, hear!” That is facetious, but he understands the circumstances. There are occasions when we can do better together, and this is one of them. We need to see similar investment and equality of spending across all of the regions of the United Kingdom, in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as well. I wish to see that happen.

The only thing I would add to the motion is the word “safe”—we need to make sure that nuclear fuel manufacturing in the UK is safe. Safe nuclear is the only proven, reliable low-carbon energy source that we have. I have always made it clear that we can and should use nuclear energy, but only to the highest safety standards. That does cost money. There is a cost implication, as there always is. It means ongoing investment, which is why I was interested to learn that currently over 85% of the UK’s nuclear fuel is manufactured within the UK, predominantly by the existing advanced gas-cooled reactor power stations. Fuel fabrication will decline, with seven out of eight of the UK’s current nuclear fleet, responsible for around 20% of the UK’s zero-carbon electricity, currently scheduled to be offline by 2030.

I am sure we have all heard the selling points regarding the potential opportunity that Sizewell C in Suffolk presents to secure a future for UK nuclear fuel manufacturing, should that project be approved. It is right and proper that it is explored, and that we have all the information necessary to take it forward. The hon. Member for Preston (Sir Mark Hendrick) referred to China’s position. I cannot agree with him. I am not anti-China—it would be wrong to be so—but we need to know about China’s intentions. We need to know what they are about: if their investment could be used to our advantage as well as to their advantage, that is good, but not if it is solely to their advantage. It is our land and our country, and we need to have the last say on what happens. If protections are in place, we will want to see them before this project can be fully considered.

Hinkley Point C in Somerset has already supported around 71,000 jobs, so we cannot ignore the jobs that are created through these projects. It uses a supply chain of more than 3,600 businesses, and has an estimated economic value to the UK of £18 billion. Those jobs in small and medium businesses throughout the supply chain, and the economic value that this project has to the UK, cannot be ignored. That skilled workforce and supply chain need a clear future; they need to know what is happening as well. I want Northern Ireland to be part of that supply chain, so perhaps when the Minister sums up, she can give us some indication of how Northern Ireland can play its part in that. I would certainly like that to be part of the Government’s commitment; I do not doubt that it will be, but I just want to hear it for Hansard and on the record, please.

Together, Hinkley Point C and Sizewell C will produce enough zero-carbon electricity to power 12 million homes—again, that is incredibly important and cannot be ignored. EDF is building the UK’s first nuclear power station in a generation at Hinkley Point, and I am given to understand that the electricity generated by that plant will offset some 9 million tonnes of carbon emissions per year, or 600 million tonnes over its 60-year lifespan. Again, those figures cannot be ignored, and we should be encouraged by them.

The Energy Technologies Institute has identified the two key cost drivers of new nuclear power stations as construction and financing, and building this series is key to lowering both. Hopefully, we can address both of those drivers by having the series and plan in place; I believe the Government are committed to that strategy and that plan. I have been told that the cost of financing Sizewell C will be lower because of the reduction in risk through building the second project in the series, and because the funding model—the regulated asset base model—enables investors to receive a steady return on their investment during construction, meaning that they will be able to provide capital at a lower cost. I am a great believer in ensuring that investors have a return; I would respectfully suggest that we want to see a return for them, but not an exorbitant one. However, we have a responsibility to the taxpayer to ensure that investors can invest their money and get that return.

I look to Government, and in particular to the Minister, to provide a response setting out their vision—and her vision—of low-carbon energy, and how this can be achieved for all of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland by using safe nuclear power, with a viable financing option in legislation and in operation. If we can do that, I believe we will all benefit.

Newport Wafer Fab Sale

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 15th July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Amanda Solloway]

I reiterate that the Government have looked closely at the transaction and do not consider it appropriate to intervene at the present time. The Prime Minister made it clear at the Liaison Committee last week that he has asked the National Security Adviser to review this. The Government are committed to the semiconductor sector and work is under way to review the wider semiconductor landscape in the United Kingdom.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I concur with the comments of the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith). I ask a question along the same lines: in relation to national security and jobs, is this beneficial for the UK?

The Chinese Government have been, and are, responsible for human rights abuses—including of Christians, Falun Gong and Uyghur Muslims—on a level that is unknown in the rest of the world, despite world opinion and despite our representations on the matter. However, they do listen to economic arguments. How can we use this opportunity to challenge them to ensure that they act? We do not want the hollow words that we always get from them; we want action. Before any deal goes through and before any sale happens, let us make sure that human rights abuses are reduced and that they are totally committed to that.

[Amanda Solloway]

As I mentioned, the Government are completely committed to human rights and are mindful of everything we need to do on that. We have looked very closely at this transaction. I can give the hon. Gentleman my reassurance that the National Security and Investment Act will allow the Government to scrutinise and intervene on any acquisitions that may pose a national security risk. I reiterate that the Government want a mature, positive relationship with China based on mutual respect and trust. There is considerable scope for constructive engagement, but as we strive for a positive relationship, we must not sacrifice either our values or our security.

Fuel Poverty

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 8th July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

As always, it is a pleasure to speak on this issue. As others have said, fuel poverty is a devolved matter, but energy prices and incomes are the responsibility of this place, so this debate is as pertinent to my constituents as it is to anyone elsewhere. I was involved in this issue in my former role in the Northern Ireland Assembly, and also on the council, where we had many initiatives to address fuel poverty. It was good to be involved in those initiatives, because those sorts of issues were coming into my office on a regular basis.

The pandemic has exacerbated the issue of fuel poverty. For me, when I was at home and unable to do visits, I was still able to do some of the work around the farm. I am sure everyone has heard people being described as a Jack of all trades and a master of none. I would not say that I was a master of none. I can probably make sure the carpentry stays together and the electrics do not break down, but does it look pretty? Probably not. Maybe that is the difference between a skilled person and me.

For many others, however, lockdown was almost a time of captivity, and those on the poverty threshold who lived above the benefit cap and whose wages were then reduced to 80% had to make every penny count when they were restricted to their homes. When people are in their homes for a long period of time, their heating bills go up. For those who worked in offices, HMRC allowed an allowance to be claimed against tax when they were working from home. That was not available for those on furlough, however. Fuel poverty in our nation is very real and it has been felt more than ever during the covid lockdown. People could not head to their mum’s or their sister’s for the day to use their heating; they had to heat their own home or sit there in blankets and extra clothes, as others have said. That is not a picture I normally associate with the UK, yet data has shown that that was the case.

In August, Citizens Advice estimated that 2.8 million UK adults had fallen behind on their energy bills. The Policy Institute at King’s College in London estimated that three in 10 people had experienced a reduction in their income as a result of coronavirus, that three in 10 people had cut back on non-essential spending, and that only two in 10 had more money left at the end of the month. The combination of reduced incomes and increased debt has had a profound impact on householders. A National Energy Action survey of organisations working to support fuel-poor households found that three quarters said that there was a high risk of an increased build-up of fuel debt as a direct result of the pandemic.

I chair the all-party parliamentary group for healthy homes and buildings, and one of the things we are interested in is the insulation of homes and making homes more suitable for people. We have done an inquiry on that, and for me this issue is incredibly important. The APPG on fuel poverty and energy efficiency has produced a marvellous briefing with a number of key points that I absolutely agree with. One of the most pertinent is that, within the upcoming heat and building strategy, the UK Government must set out a clear energy efficiency standard for both the private and social rented sectors. The briefing further highlighted that in the Government’s plans to reach net zero, regulating retail energy markets and increasing incomes must work alongside energy efficiency improvements to support all UK nations to end fuel poverty and to achieve a fair and affordable energy transition.

It is said that meeting the net zero targets could result in as much as a 20% increase in energy costs. If the experts are right and that is the case, we could have a problem. It is great to set targets for ourselves, but they must be achievable. I could set myself a target to learn Mandarin Chinese during recess, if I had the time and I was not so busy, but the reality is that learning that beautiful, complex language in that short space of time is highly unlikely. The point I am making is that targets must be achievable, which means that resources must be in place and schemes must be available to all earners and non-earners to update wall insulation, which cuts energy bills and as a bonus is better for the environment. We must commit to resourcing those schemes.

We must also commit not simply to uplifting income for some families but to changing the way they spend their money. A households is said to be in fuel poverty if it needs to spend more than 10% of its income on energy costs. In Northern Ireland, the rate of fuel poverty is 22%. Three factors can and must be addressed by the Government: income, the cost of energy and the domestic energy efficiency of homes. The need is clear and the path is clear. We must begin the journey remembering to bring the working poor and those who are on benefits with us. If we do that—and I believe the Government have that commitment—we can achieve something.