Russia’s Grand Strategy

Debate between Jim Shannon and Alec Shelbrooke

Thursday 19th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Alec Shelbrooke]

We can find examples from across Government over that period of time. When the invasion happened just under a year ago, many conversations took place, and still take place to this day, along the lines of, “Well, Putin is terminally ill.” “Look at Putin’s face, he has a terminal disease.” “This is the act of a dying man.” People were trying to make excuses for him to understand why he did it. They should just accept that the man is a fascist dictator who is trying to expand the Russian empire. There is the answer; it is as simple as that. But still our natural instinct says that this is so far beyond what anybody would expect that there must be another reason behind it.

The hon. Member for Rhondda is correct that people, whoever they were—in this case, it was the then Foreign Secretary—simply did not believe that this would happen. That was true among many of our European allies, but given what we now know, we must be aware that it will go beyond Ukraine. There is no point in saying that Putin would not dare to move into NATO territory. If he wins in Ukraine, then, yes, he will. It is not just Putin, but the Russian set-up—the Russian leadership. There are people beneath Putin who will carry on this war if he were to go. This involves not just one person, but a regime.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for setting the scene. The hon. Member for Rhondda (Sir Chris Bryant) clearly warned this House on many occasions about the situation in Crimea, but hesitation led the day on that occasion. With this debate on Russia’s grand strategy perhaps what we are really looking at is where we are today and the strength that we have through NATO and the US all standing together. That is the positive attitude that we want to send out from this debate, so that Russia understands that, today, we will not take any more and that this is the line in the sand. Clearly, Ukraine’s battles are our battles as well.

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, but the point that I make is this: Putin will observe this situation today with Germany and the tanks and he will also observe the European direction in defence policy. He will then start to think, “Well, how much will they push back?” The allies will sit there and say, “He won’t dare to invade NATO territory.” But it was only a year ago when I thought that he would not invade Ukraine. I can stand here and say that; I just did not think that he would. I thought that he was probing to see how the west would react. I thought that he was seeing what our reaction would be, but that his attention was on another part. I think at the time I was saying Azerbaijan, Armenia—mineral-rich areas. I think he thought that if we did not react to Ukraine, we certainly would not react in the Caspian sea. I just did not believe that he would do this in Ukraine. Why did I not believe it? It was because, rather than looking at what was staring me right in the face, I decided not to believe it.

We must accept right now that we need to enter into solid, long-term contracts. We need to do that with support from all parts of the House. Her Majesty’s Opposition must be in lockstep with the Government in our support for Ukraine and in recognising European defence policy. The Opposition have moved on from where they were a few years ago. There is no question about NATO support now, which should be welcomed across the House. It is very important that this country, this Government and this House have the same views. Therefore, there should be no reason not to invest.

I shall be drawing my remarks to a close soon, but let me just say this before I do. We know that it is important that we do everything that we can, but let me explain why. When I was Minister for defence procurement, I went to North Yorkshire and met the troops and the Ukrainians being trained by our armed forces. I was lucky to be there on day one when a batch of people came in. They all came from different aspects—one was 65 and one 18—but what did every single one of them have in common? They all said, “I am not losing my country.” That strength of feeling for a country is worth a huge amount, but it still needs to be backed up with equipment.

Russia’s strategy is clear: it will carry on expanding beyond Ukraine. It will take no notice of any treaty that is put in place. Only military capability will stop it. Europe must know that this is not the end, and it must ensure it is moving in lockstep on manufacturing and recognising—as I said a year ago, and I was pooh-poohed—that the cold war has started. As my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex said, we are also in a hot war, but there is a cold war along an entire border, and that costs.

As I said last year, we must get back to spending the sums we spent at the end of the cold war, when we were spending 5% of GDP on defence. How we do that is a matter for different budgets and different questions, but the reality is that we will have to, and we will have to bring other countries along. If we are to defeat the Russian grand strategy, we need a Europe-wide strategy, and that starts with ensuring that we have the commitments in place for funding, for the military and for the equipment that others need, as well as for our own defence.

Ukraine

Debate between Jim Shannon and Alec Shelbrooke

Tuesday 11th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker—it is always good to know that the Shannon name is growing and, obviously, that will help in 18 years’ time whenever they come to vote.

I welcome the Minister to his place, wish him well and thank him for his answers. Has an assessment been done of how effectively food and medical supplies are entering into the communities that are on the outskirts of battle zones? How can we further step up to help Ukrainian citizens who are fighting for freedom and liberty and for their very lives?

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on the new addition to his family; I know that his grandchild will not have any problem in having someone to give them a bedtime story.

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that he asks a technical question, and I will seek to answer him in writing on those specific details.

Callum Wark (Sentencing of Foreign Drivers)

Debate between Jim Shannon and Alec Shelbrooke

Wednesday 29th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

Members on both sides of the House will have experienced incredibly difficult cases in their constituency advice surgeries, but for me, few experiences have been as difficult as meeting my constituents Joanne and Robert Wark from Swillington in May this year.

Joanne and Robert came to talk to me about their son Callum. They described 3 March 1994, the day Callum was born, as the proudest day of their lives; he was a gift that completed their world. People say that a baby’s character shines a light on the adult whom the baby will become, and that was certainly true of Callum. This happy, well- behaved toddler grew up to be a kind, gentle person, and a thoughtful young man who loved his parents and grandparents dearly. As a child, Callum would regularly visit his gran and granddad, and was always eager to help with jobs around their house and garden. Joanne and Robert did a first-rate job in bringing up a child of whom any parent would be proud, a child of compassion and profound generosity.

Callum’s school reports talk of a child who did not always find school work easy, but always worked hard for every educational achievement. The phrase “a pleasure to teach” appeared regularly in his school reports. His family told me of a school sports day when a five-year-old Callum, already sports mad, stood on the starting line of a race that he was the favourite to win. After the klaxon had fired and halfway through the race, he turned around to see his friend—a friend with learning difficulties—standing rigid on the starting line. Callum turned around, ran back, and helped his friend to the finishing line. He lost that race, but he won many more after that.

Callum attended Brigshaw high school, an outstanding comprehensive school near Allerton Bywater in my constituency. On reaching the age of 16, he secured a part-time job at the well-known Strikes garden centre on Swillington Common, and decided that he wanted to go on to do an apprenticeship—to learn a skill for life, and then begin a career. He later secured a job locally, at the Wincanton warehouse. That job was a stop-gap, and while doing it he applied for many apprenticeships. He did not do too well in maths at school, but he needed it for the apprenticeships for which he was applying, so he took it upon himself to enrol on additional maths courses, which he attended on his days off.

I am sure the House will agree that Callum’s work ethic and self-motivation were qualities that we would wish to see in all young adults in Britain today. Just as I had to, Callum worked hard and saved up so that he could afford and insure his first car. He cherished that new-found freedom, as new drivers do, and his new car became his pride and joy. When I met Joanne and Robert for the first time, I noted that Callum’s placid, permanently selfless nature seemed quite uncommon among teenagers today. They were quick to assure me that Callum had “the usual teenage tantrums”, but they were equally quick to add that “he never caused us or anyone else any trouble.”

At 2.47 in the afternoon of 1 March this year, two days before his 20th birthday, Callum was killed when his Renault Clio was hit by a heavy goods vehicle on the A162 between Ledsham and Fairburn, just outside my constituency. The driver of that heavy goods vehicle, a Bulgarian national called Stoyan Andonov Stoyanov, was found to be under the influence of alcohol. He was jailed for just seven years, but is likely to serve only half that sentence, and was banned from driving in the UK for 10 years. Let me put that in context. In 2024, when Callum should have been celebrating his 30th birthday—perhaps with a family of his own, and a good career—his killer could be driving on UK roads again, enjoying all the freedoms of life that his reckless actions took away from Callum.

At the end of my initial meeting with Callum’s parents in Garforth library last May, Joanne turned to me and, with little hope left in her voice, thanked me—not for my offer of support, but for doing something that no one else had done. No one else had asked to hear about Callum the individual: the son, the grandson, the much-loved friend, the innocent teenager enthusiastic about the excitements of the life that he had yet to experience. Callum was not merely a number, nor is he now merely a road traffic fatality statistic. Those who knew him had little doubt that he would one day go on to great things, and today we can create a legacy in his memory. We can give his parents justice, and give a meaning to his untimely death by making an amendment to the law in the name of Callum Wark.

Stoyan Andonov Stoyanov was found to be more than three times over the legal drink-drive limit and admitted to drinking a full bottle of spirits in the 24 hours before the crash. Despite this, he knowingly placed himself behind the wheel of his heavy goods vehicle. There may have been no malice aforethought in his actions, but my constituents and hundreds of campaigners who have signed a petition believe that such actions certainly constitute unlawful act manslaughter. Those calling for stricter sentencing for drink-drivers who kill argue that the deterrent is not great enough. According to the west Yorkshire-based road safety charity, Brake, evidence suggests that the current system to tackle repeat drink-driving is not working: one in eight drink-drivers does it repeatedly, and as many as three in 10 high-risk offenders reoffend. Repeat offending is one of the major drink-driving issues, yet the penalties are the same no matter how many times an individual reoffends.

In 2004, the maximum penalty for causing death by dangerous driving when under the influence of alcohol or drugs was increased to 14 years. However, criminal justice statistics recently published by Brake show that fewer than three in five drink-drivers who kill receive a sentence of more than five years in prison. It is my understanding that a Sentencing Council review is soon to take place and therefore, on behalf of my constituents and all victims of death by drink-driving, I call on the Ministry of Justice to review charges under the Road Traffic Act 1991 and introduce a strict minimum sentence—an amendment to the law, in the name of Callum Wark—to ensure that those guilty of causing death while under the influence of alcohol or drugs serve a stricter minimum sentence in custody.

I dare say that nobody can begin to understand the emotional torment and heartbreak of the families of victims of road traffic fatalities. There is little one can say to offer comfort in those circumstances, but for my constituents, the difficulty of that experience was only made worse by the insensitivity of the Crown Prosecution Service, which, more than anything else, affirmed to my constituents that in the eyes of the CPS—and certainly of their CPS solicitor, Sarah Nelson—Callum was just another number, a statistic. Charities such as Brake offer fantastic support services to the victims of crime, and I know Members across the House will want to support their 17th annual road safety week on 17 November. However, although charities perform a vital role in bereavement support, from the experiences of my constituents, the same cannot be said for the CPS. This may not be the case across the board, and Members might know of cases where their constituents received excellent support from CPS lawyers, but I can only speak from the information relayed to me by my constituents, which showed that support for and understanding of victims’ families is desperately deficient. Perhaps the CPS might therefore look at additional training for those acting on behalf of those in bereavement.

Justice is often sought as a comfort. It is sought after the most horrific of events, but it rarely delivers the sense of closure that those who seek it desire. Justice is not about compensation; real justice is knowing that the killer of one’s child receives a custodial sentence befitting their crime. More than that, justice should be about triggering change: it should be a deterrent to prevent these terrible incidents from happening to another innocent victim.

Callum’s killer was a Bulgarian national, a European citizen. In recent months, there has been much discussion in this House and across my constituency of the advantages and disadvantages of the European Union. For now, at least, Britain is a member of that Union, and my constituents would expect the UK to use its position within it to bring about new measures to protect British citizens in the UK and in Europe. At present, there is no mutual recognition of driving disqualifications between EU member states, other than that between the UK and Ireland. In short, despite a 10-year ban from driving on UK roads, in three years’ time Mr Stoyanov could return to Bulgaria and resume driving anywhere within the European economic area. With 1.8 million Britons living and working in Europe, he will remain a threat to British citizens abroad, despite a 10-year driving ban in the UK.

On the top left-hand corner of my UK driving licence is the flag of the European Union. It suggests that it is an EU-wide driving licence, in a standard format recognisable by officials in all EU member states. That symbol is meant to make it harder for drivers banned in one country to carry on driving undetected in another, yet in practice it is meaningless.

According to the European Union’s mission statement, its second priority is

“to promote and protect democracy and universal rights in Europe”,

but with rights must come responsibility, and it cannot be right that a foreign national sentenced in the UK and banned from driving here can return to his native country—a country within the European Union—and avoid a ban imposed in UK courts. If the EU sees fits to protect universal rights in Europe, surely there must be an obligation on member states to ensure that responsibilities are universal, too. For without collective responsibilities, what is the Union but a talking shop of ideologies? On behalf of my constituents, I urge Ministers to open renegotiations with the European Commission, with a view to reaching mutual recognition of driving disqualifications across member states.

When sentencing Stoyan Andonov Stoyanov at York Crown court earlier this year, the judge indicated that the court would apply for a deportation order on completion of a custodial sentence. My constituents expect that this order will be granted and the individual deported, yet guidelines on the deportation of foreign national offenders under section 32 of the UK Borders Act 2007 highlight a discrepancy between nationals of countries within and nationals of countries outside the European economic area. For example, under present deportation threshold criteria, non-EEA nationals sentenced to 12 months or more are considered for deportation by the UK Border Agency, whereas deportation is considered for EEA nationals only if they are sentenced to 24 months or more, unless the offence relates to drugs, sex, violence or “other serious criminal activity”.

For the purposes of protecting British citizens at home, what is the difference between a foreign national offender from Bulgaria and, for example, a foreign national offender from a few miles over the border in Turkey? Is a criminal from Burgas any less of a criminal than one from Dereköy? Does membership of the European economic area suddenly make a member state’s criminals a lesser threat to UK citizens than those from another country? I think not. A foreign national convicted in a UK court should be subject to the same deportation threshold criteria irrespective of whether their home country is a member state of some international economic community. My constituents and I therefore urge Ministers to review deportation criteria for EEA foreign national offenders and decrease the deportation threshold to a sentence of 12 months, thereby removing the nepotism toward nationals from within the European economic area.

I make that request because it was evident from the court case that Callum’s killer had no better understanding of British law or customs merely because he was a foreign national from within the European Union. In court, it was evident that Mr Stoyanov knew little English, either to speak or understand. He claimed to know nothing about the highway code or about UK drink-driving laws. A broader political debate arises from these issues, but this debate is not the place to air those thoughts. It is evident that Mr Stoyanov and the foreign haulage company he worked for had no knowledge of, and had made no effort to understand, the UK highway code and our drink-drive laws before he entered the UK.

Let us be clear that the foreign haulage firm sending its heavy goods vehicles across Europe and into the United Kingdom has a duty of care to ensure that its employees understand the laws of the road in the UK. It says much about the kind of company that Mr Stoyanov worked for that the only interest it showed as regards the death of my constituent was in its repeat inquires about securing the return of its expensive heavy goods vehicle. Perhaps when Ministers next meet with Commissioners in the European Union, they might wish to address this issue and encourage member states to look at the effectiveness and content of assessments for the distribution of large goods vehicle licences across Europe.

Finally, for reasons that I have discussed, my constituents believe a review of sentencing of convicted foreign drivers is desperately needed. I do not believe that stricter custodial sentencing in the UK is enough to deter others from driving while drunk. For convicted foreign drivers such as Mr Stoyanov, driving is their livelihood. Sentencing guidelines, together with the absence of restrictions preventing those subject to a deportation order from one day reapplying for entry to the UK, mean that there is no reason why Callum’s killer cannot be back driving his HGV on UK roads in 10 years’ time. The United Kingdom needs to send a strong message to foreign nationals who choose to ignore, or plead ignorance of, our drink-drive laws. My constituents therefore ask Ministers to consider, when they review sentencing guidelines, imposing a lifetime ban on driving in the UK for foreign nationals convicted of causing death while driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way, and I apologise for not being here at the beginning of the debate. I had a similar experience in my constituency; one of my constituents was killed by a foreign driver who had no insurance and was over the drink-drive limit. The hon. Gentleman has highlighted the need for legislative change, for punishment through the courts, and for Europe to work with the Minister here in the United Kingdom to ensure that those things happen. For those reasons, I wholly support what he says.

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I am most grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s support, and I know that the Minister will have heard his comments as well.

Joanne and Robert asked me to share these words with the House today:

“Callum was our only child; he was our world and our lives are now meaningless with no future to look forward to. We will never know if Callum would have been blessed with a family of his own, or if one day we could be a Grandma and Granddad ourselves. We will never get the chance to see Callum grow into the fine young man we know he would have been and we will never see our child achieve his goals and dreams. Next year was going to be a big year for family celebrations; Callum would have been 21 and we are celebrating our 25th wedding anniversary, but now our hearts and world have been torn apart and our lives destroyed. Yet in a few years, Callum’s killer will return to his family in Bulgaria and his life will carry on. Our lives stopped on 1 March.”

As their Member of Parliament, nothing I can do or say in this Chamber today will restore happiness for my constituents Joanne and Robert Wark, but we can restore their faith in the criminal justice system by making Callum’s death the reason for a stricter minimum sentence for causing death while under the influence of alcohol; for better victim support and understanding of bereavement within the Crown Prosecution Service; for the mutual recognition of driving disqualifications within the European Union; for the regulation of foreign haulage companies driving in the UK; for the deportation of convicted foreign nationals; and for a lifetime UK driving ban for foreign nationals convicted of causing death while driving under the influence of alcohol. It is too late to change what happened to my constituent on 1 March this year, but it is not too late to bring about justice for Callum Wark and make his untimely death the motivation for change.

Dementia Care and Services

Debate between Jim Shannon and Alec Shelbrooke

Tuesday 7th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I am most grateful to my hon. Friend for those comments. I am sure that everybody has experiences of their own, but perhaps it will help the House if I speak about my grandmother, as I did earlier. I was aged about 12 or 13 at the time of her diagnosis, and my sister was two years younger. My dad was working as a teacher and supporting me, my mum and our family, but he was also dealing with his own mother. I remember the toll that that took on him. He had to work out what was the best thing to do for his mother. He toiled over the decisions that he had to make for a long time, such as selling the family home in which he had been born and brought up in order to raise money for the care home. My hon. Friend is right that there is a massive toll on the families involved, as well as on the people who have this terrible disease.

Despite the focus on dementia, there is a danger that the momentum that has been created by the Prime Minister’s challenge on dementia, the G8 summit and the work of the Science and Technology Committee and the all-party parliamentary group on dementia will be lost if the Government do not act in a number of areas.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for bringing this matter to the House for consideration. Every one of us will have knowledge of this matter personally and from our position as elected representatives. One of the homes in my area has 23 residents and 20 of them have dementia. The magnitude of the problem is tremendous. Does he agree that an exchange of medical information would be helpful? Northern Ireland has the highest diagnosis level in the United Kingdom. Perhaps it is time to exchange the knowledge in Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England to come up with a strategy for the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I am sure the Minister heard his comments and will perhaps reflect on them when he sums up the debate.

I was talking about a number of areas. First, to continue making improvements along the current trajectory, it is crucial that the national dementia strategy for England is updated from the 2009 version. That strategy identified 17 key objectives for the NHS and social services aimed at improving the commissioning of dementia services, the quality of care delivered in hospitals and care homes, developing a clear picture of research and evidence needs, and providing support for carers. Will the Minister please outline what meetings have taken place about the effectiveness of the NDSE, and say what plans he has for a formal evaluation of it?

Secondly, in spite of the obvious benefits of the national strategy, so far the Government have made no plans to renew it. I welcome the Prime Minister’s challenge on dementia, which is ambitious in its plans and places a welcome political spotlight on the issue. However, that challenge alone does not provide the breadth of detail needed to guide health and social care services to make improvements, and neither does it carry enough accountability measures, which a national strategy would do.

A new national dementia strategy, with guidance for commissioners of health and social care, GPs, hospital trusts, care homes, and others, must be published before the current strategy expires in April this year. It does not seem to be a new trend of coalition Government not to renew national strategies, because in 2011, new national strategies for cancer and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease were published, and one for hearing loss is due.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I seem to be one page behind the House in my speech this evening, because interventions keep pre-empting the next part of my speech. My hon. Friend is correct that we need wider support. I have become a dementia friend, as I know many other hon. Members have.

The aforementioned points all combine in reality to have an impact on post-diagnostic support, as well as the support for those who have not been diagnosed but need care. In my constituency, some inspiring examples make me feel optimistic that dementia can be dealt with effectively and compassionately. I have seen at first hand that such support, delivered well and early in a person’s dementia journey can lead to better outcomes.

[Jim Shannon]

There have been great advances in medication. If people get an early diagnosis, medication can give them an extra five to six years of quality life. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is important that medication is available across the whole United Kingdom to give people with dementia or Alzheimer’s a better quality of life?

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. He makes important points that reflect what the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram) said earlier: it is not just about treating the disease when it is there, but about how much preventive work can be done in the first place.

As I said at the start of my speech, I wish only that some of the strategies, diagnoses and drugs that are now available were there for my grandmother 25 years ago. I was only about 11 to 13 years old in the two years before she finally went into a home, but I realise in hindsight how her quality of life was slipping away. I talked about the toll that that took on my father when he was trying to do what was best for his mother. He would be at work all day. His mother lived in south-east London while we lived 20 miles away in Kent and he would get a phone call at 3 am from her next-door neighbour saying, “Your mother”—she was in her late 70s—“is out walking the street in her nightgown.” Those are the pressures and there was nothing in place at that time. She was still living on her own and, as her grandchildren, we would still visit her. Today, I believe that she would have had a better quality of life.

I am encouraged by some of the things that are going on. I want to draw attention to a chap called Paul Mancey and his team at Orchard Care Homes. They are located in my constituency and are developing care partnerships between charities and care providers, which is very much what my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford East (Mr Ward) was talking about. This new approach means that residents are tested for hearing loss, diabetes and dementia symptoms on entry to the care home, ensuring that appropriate care packages are put in place.

Many other care homes are developing innovative ideas, too. I am pleased to say that care homes have developed immensely since we moved my grandmother into one in the early 1990s, and even more delighted that the leading company on the development of care villages is located in my constituency. Graeme Lee and his team at Springfield Healthcare have set the bar on building a quality and comfortable dementia-friendly care village at Seacroft Grange, which is located in the constituency of the hon. Member for Leeds East (Mr Mudie).

As is often the case, however, the truly inspirational support networks are not those provided by the professionals. My hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) talked about early diagnosis, and there are community champions. One community champion in my constituency is Peter Smith, who established the Tea Cosy Memory Café in Rothwell, which provides a welcoming place for those with dementia and their carers, as well as making Rothwell the first dementia-friendly community in Leeds.

The Alzheimer’s Society has done great work to promote awareness of dementia. Hon. Members can play a greater role, too, in raising awareness. I alluded to the fact that, like many Members, I am proud to be a dementia friend and to support the work of the Alzheimer’s Society. I urge as many Members as possible to become a dementia friend and to help the Alzheimer’s Society.

Welfare Benefits Up-rating Bill

Debate between Jim Shannon and Alec Shelbrooke

Tuesday 8th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

The problem with this debate is that nobody has gone back to the idea of what the social security welfare state was for. It was brought in to make sure that people who were in desperate need at a time of unexpected circumstances did not fall into poverty. When somebody lost their job, that often meant they were stuck. That is why the social state was created.

I have sat throughout this debate and listened to many a speech, and the only Opposition Member who has spoken with any passion is the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns). He gets it—he knows what the welfare state is about. All the other speeches by Opposition Members have, I am afraid, been about pure political point scoring. I do not doubt for one minute that the vast majority of Opposition Members care deeply about the poorest in society, as we do on the Government Benches.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Alec Shelbrooke]

Just give me two ticks. The constant mocking that has gone on is shameful political posturing.

[Jim Shannon]

The two commodities that have seen the highest inflation are food and fuel, which affect those on a low income more than anyone else. Does the hon. Gentleman think that the Secretary of State’s benefits cap will enable those people to come out of poverty and go for jobs?

[Alec Shelbrooke]

The hon. Gentleman mentions rising food inflation, but let us not forget that we have just knocked 10p off the price of a litre of fuel. That 10p was in the Opposition’s plans and would have created extra inflation.

This debate has been polarised, but a divide has been in existence for more than a decade and it is coming to the fore. As soon as we try to address it, we are described as nasty and heartless and told we are not dealing with people fairly. The fact is that too many people in this country have the wrong idea about benefits, which is not a dirty word.