Afghanistan

John Baron Excerpts

Wednesday 18th August 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister (Boris Johnson)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the situation in Afghanistan.

May I begin by thanking you, Mr Speaker, and all the parliamentary staff for enabling us to meet this morning? Before I turn to today’s debate, I am sure the House will want to join you, Mr Speaker, and me in sending our condolences to the family and friends of those killed in the appalling shooting in Plymouth last week. Investigations are of course continuing, but we will learn every possible lesson from this tragedy.

I know that Members across the House share my concern about the situation in Afghanistan, the issues it raises for our own security and the fears of many remaining in that country, especially women and children. The sacrifice in Afghanistan is seared into our national consciousness, with 150,000 people serving there from across the length and breadth of the United Kingdom, including a number of Members in all parts of the House, whose voices will be particularly important today. So it is absolutely right that we should come together for this debate.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

As someone who opposed this nation-building intervention, I believe that it now brings its responsibilities. Will the Prime Minister assure me that, in addition to getting our nationals out safely, and in offering a generous welcome to the many refugees, all necessary resources will be given to those Afghans and others who helped the British Council in its work, including the promotion of women’s rights? Many are in fear of their lives—of retribution from the Taliban. The Afghan relocations and assistance policy scheme is slow-moving at the moment. Will he commit the necessary resource, because the window of opportunity is narrow and no one must be left behind.

[Mr Speaker]

We have got the point. May I remind Members that if you are going to intervene, you have got to be short. If you intervene more than twice, you will understand why you have gone down the list—if there was one. [Laughter.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

We have all in Parliament been horrified by recent developments, from the harrowing scenes at Kabul airport to the reports of retribution from the Taliban, the shambles of an exit strategy and the failure of the international community at this critical point. It is self-evident that our mistaken intervention now brings its responsibilities, and whatever the strategic long-term lessons, the first priority now must be to save lives. So I welcome what the Government are doing to get our nationals out, but I urge them, as many hon. Members have done today, to be generous in our welcome of the many refugees who are fleeing in fear of their lives.

I do worry about arbitrary figures—an extra 5,000—at this point, because we simply do not know the scale of the humanitarian disaster. I urge the Government to keep an open mind on that. We have to be generous. If other nations will not do their fair share, we have to go beyond our fair share in ensuring that we live up to those obligations and responsibilities. That is a product of our 20-year intervention.

I would also urge the Foreign Secretary, please, to do what he can to help all those who have assisted the UK in Afghanistan—not just the military. As he knows, I chair the all-party group on the British Council, and we are particularly concerned about the slow progress of the ARAP scheme, which seems to be creating a backlog. There is a narrow window of opportunity here and I urge the Foreign Secretary to reinforce what the Prime Minister assured me from the Dispatch Box today, that sufficient resources are committed to ensure that no one is left behind who wishes to leave.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

Of course we are grateful to the Government for making the commitment to welcoming new refugees to the UK, but does the hon. Gentleman share my concern that, alongside the UNHCR definition of what is required to be a refugee, the UK Government have introduced additional requirements, which will make the process far more complex and make it far more difficult to prove that these refugees are genuine?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Baron]

I can assure the hon. Member that many, if not all, on the Government side, and no doubt on both sides, of the House will press the Government as best they can to ensure that our welcome of refugees is nothing short of very generous, given the circumstances of the case. We owe it to those people; we need to stand by them. Of course the usual terrorist screening and so on must take place, but I have got the message across, I have had a response from the Prime Minister, I know that the Foreign Secretary is a man of his word and I, as chair of the all-party group, have made this representation very strongly in the House today and fully expect that the Government will honour it. There are too many people trapped, at the moment, in the bureaucratic mess in Kabul airport, despite the wonderful work that our ambassador is doing there—in the airport—and we need to commit sufficient resources. I think I have made that point strongly enough, and if the hon. Lady does not mind, I shall quickly move on and make a couple of other points.

I would argue that this has proved to be yet another mistaken intervention, which will sit alongside Iraq, Libya and Syria. The fundamental error that we made here—it has been alluded to in one or two very good speeches—is that we allowed the initial, limited and very successful mission of expelling al-Qaeda in 2001 to morph into a much wider intervention of nation building, which meant fighting the Taliban. That was unnecessary, given that the 2001 intervention had proved that we could achieve our goals of combating terrorism through limited interventions.

As one of the few Conservative MPs at the time to oppose the wider intervention and to vote against it, I suggest that the mission was born of ignorance, was over-ambitious and, from the very start, was thoroughly under-resourced. If we are not prepared to put in the resource to see this through to the end, we should not be surprised at the sort of exit shambles that we have recently seen. The policy was defended by too many—for too long—who should have known better, whatever their purposes, including a few in this place. I pay honour to our service personnel. They did their job in buying time—it is up to the politicians to come up with the solutions—and they achieved their missions. They can be proud, and we can be proud of them.

While the priority now is to save lives, the scale of the error is such that, I believe, the many bereaved families and service personnel who are still paying the price of this intervention, including those of the eight fusiliers killed from my regiment, the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, and the 30 or so wounded from the regiment who are living with life-changing injuries, deserve an apology from the Prime Minister on behalf of previous Governments, even though the exit strategy was not of No. 10’s making. I think that that is the very least we can do. They can be proud, we can be proud of them, but I think that an apology is certainly due.

G7 and NATO Summits

John Baron Excerpts

Wednesday 16th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

That is a great one from the Labour party, because they actually opposed the increase in corporation tax at the Budget. They should try to remember what they have been doing over the last few months. It was a great achievement, after a long time, to get the western world—the G7—to agree to find a way of taxing the multinational giants that make profits in one country and then hook them somewhere else. That was a fantastic thing, and we now have a minimum global corporation tax of 15%—I forgot to mention it in my opening remarks—which was another great step forward at the G7 summit.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con) [V]]

As we reflect on the many successes of the G7 summit, the Prime Minister will know that the growing importance of soft power is very much recognised by the G7, yet there remains a £10 million shortfall between the Government’s generous package to see the British Council through the pandemic and what it needs to maintain its international network of offices, as defined by country directors in post abroad. If the gap is not bridged, the result will be the largest single set of closures in the British Council’s proud 90-year history. Given that the Prime Minister has told me personally that he gets it and that the £10 million can be given as a loan, and given that our competitors’ cultural institutes are actually expanding their physical footprint, will he now ensure that Government Departments also get it in time for the ministerial statement due shortly?

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend and thank him for his continuing campaigning on this issue. We are giving the British Council more support now, because I know it has been very tough for them during the pandemic. On the gap of £10 million that he identifies and the crucial part that he thinks that will play, I will see what further I can do.

European Union (Future Relationship) Bill

John Baron Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 30th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con) [V]]

I commend the Prime Minister, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and the whole team for achieving this deal, which I will be supporting in the vote later today. Both sides were always going to have to compromise, but the UK has secured its sovereignty and this is a good deal. We have also secured a safeguard: an exit route, if chosen. The deal proves wrong those who thought that there was no alternative to the withdrawal agreement, and that it could not be struck in time. A good deal was always preferred—after all, that is the logic of Brexit—but being prepared to leave on WTO terms, under which we trade profitably with much of the world, was a deciding factor in the EU finally accepting the UK as its sovereign equal.

This indeed is a defining moment in our history. Many have participated and played an important role but, for me, that role began when, with the support of my association, I entered Parliament with the hope of securing a referendum, then campaigning for our exit. Highs and lows followed. Leading the parliamentary campaign in 2012 and 2013 to persuade the party leadership to adopt a referendum in time for the next general election, and voting against the withdrawal agreement, together with all the speeches and amendments that that involved, were certainly my key contributions to the cause.

We always felt that we knew how the country would vote, if given the chance, as Parliament had been out of sync for far too long. The challenge was to get a sceptical leadership to promise a referendum at a time when every parliamentary party was against it, even if that meant nearly losing the Whip over my amendment to the 2013 Queen’s Speech regretting the absence of a referendum Bill. The commitment helped to secure victory in the 2015 election, put the United Kingdom Independence party back its box, and made possible the 2016 referendum.

A bright future now awaits us, as we capitalise on our new-found freedoms. Our history and the ingenuity of our people suggest optimism, but I also look forward to a better relationship with the EU. Our membership was always going to prove difficult, given the difference between us on trade and political integration. We can now focus instead on common agendas. The deal represents a fresh start, and I am hopeful that the opportunity will be grasped.

EU Withdrawal Agreement

John Baron Excerpts

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

The Simpsons character I most remembered was Groundskeeper Willie, because he is an Aberdonian. [Interruption.] I am not sure what his position is on independence, but as jannies go, he is certainly one of the best. To the hon. Gentleman’s point, Scotland does have the best of both worlds. It has a devolved Administration in Holyrood and representation by great MPs such as himself here in Westminster.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con) [V]]

I commend my right hon. Friend for the role he has played and very much welcome this agreement. It is good news that the EU has compromised; its previous position on everything from unlimited checks to export declarations could have choked trade between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Given that this agreement will add an impetus to the wider trade talks, will he commend the Prime Minister for not making last-minute compromises just to get a trade deal over the line? The Prime Minister has the support of the Conservative party, should he decide to walk away and trade on Australia and Canada terms. After all, a trade deal is for keeps, not just for Christmas.

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The point he makes, and the point that my right hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) made earlier, reinforce the fact that the Conservative party is united behind the Prime Minister. It is willing him to get a deal, but it is also ready to accept that if we cannot get the deal we want, we will not accept a deal at any price. That has to be the right way forward.

Integrated Review

John Baron Excerpts

Thursday 19th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman asks a very interesting question about a hypothetical political event that is at least a generation away. What I can say is that there is absolutely no threat to the Black Watch, to DFID in East Kilbride or to any of the other fantastic investments that this package brings to Scotland. It is a fantastic thing for our country and for our Union.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con) [V]]

This announcement is extremely welcome and one that I know, as an ex-soldier, will be well received by our superb armed forces. My right hon. Friend will know that the integrated review offers the opportunity to consider Britain’s foreign policy assets in the round, including its world-class soft power capabilities. Will he therefore confirm that when the review is published, it will reflect the recommendations of the recent British Council all-party parliamentary group report and include a soft power strategy at its core, with a central role for Britain’s primary soft power assets, including the British Council?

Covid-19 Update

John Baron Excerpts

Monday 2nd November 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am so sorry about the case that the hon. Lady describes. I have met, as I am sure Members across the House have, bereaved family members of those who have lost their lives in care homes, who have not been able to visit them, and it is an absolute tragedy. All I can tell her is that we are doing our absolute best to allow people to visit their relatives in extreme circumstances, making sure that they have the necessary PPE. What we cannot have is another outbreak of the kind that we saw in care homes and, alas, the virus is transmitted readily in care homes and between care homes and we must not see that again.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con) [V]]

I commend the Prime Minister for his statement and will be supporting the Government on Wednesday. We must prioritise saving lives wherever possible, but may I suggest that the elderly should be allowed more leeway? Given that Sweden recently removed shielding advice for its over-70s, concluding that the general risks to their health from loneliness and isolation outweighed those from the virus, what cost-benefit analysis have the Government undertaken as to the balance of risks to public health and society from lockdown on the one hand and from the coronavirus on the other?

[The Prime Minister]

We are not bringing back shielding, as I mentioned earlier, although we do think that the elderly need to take special steps to protect themselves. In connection with Sweden, actually the Swedish example is not quite the slam-dunk that perhaps people think. Sweden does not, for instance, allow pupils over 15 to get back into school, whereas we prioritise keeping our schools open. That is the balance that we strike the whole time—a balance between keeping our economy moving as far as we can, keeping our schools open, and defeating the virus. That is what we are trying to do.

European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill

John Baron Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons & Money resolution & Programme motion & Ways and Means resolution
Friday 20th December 2019 Commons Chamber

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

This debate is the beginning of a promise fulfilled—not simply a promise fulfilled by my party, although it is certainly that, but a promise fulfilled by this Parliament to the people of this country. When we embarked on the Brexit process we—Parliament—offered a decision to the British people. We said that we could not or would not make a decision about our future relationship with the European Union, but that the people of this country would take that decision and Parliament would respect it.

We have had three years of betrayal of that pact with the British people in the previous Parliament, when Members simply would not honour the manifesto commitments on which 80% of them had been elected. Those who wilfully signed up to a manifesto saying that they would honour the referendum result, but then came to the House and betrayed that, did not enjoy their first democratic contact with voters. I am proud that many of my new hon. Friends are taking the place of those who did not honour that.

This is also an historic opportunity for you, Mr Speaker, to repair some of the damage done to the reputation of the Chair of this House by some of your predecessor’s decisions. We wish you well in that great task.

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is absolutely right not to enter into constant extensions to the implementation period with the European Union. Nothing would give the EU less incentive to come to a final agreement with the UK than embarking on such a process. We have had the torture of the last few years in which there were endless increases in the timeframe, and we need not go through that again.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

Given that Australia negotiated trade deals with Japan, South Korea and China, all within 18 months, and that we have had 47 years of integration, does my right hon. Friend agree that there is no reason why we cannot negotiate a good trade deal with the EU by the end of next year, as long as there is good will on its side?

[Dr Fox]

My hon. Friend puts his finger on the most important point. We will face not a technical issue, but a political issue. Indeed, the political declaration sets out that we will have no tariffs, no fees and no quotas in the economic relationship. That is what normally takes up the time in trading agreements, so it is entirely possible that this agreement can be done. The debate we will embark on is not about tariffs, fees and quotas, but regulatory alignment. That will be the central debate in our negotiations with the European Union.

We need to see the issue in a wider global context. At the World Trade Organisation meeting in Buenos Aires, it became clear that there are two ways forward in the global trading system. One is the concept of harmonisation —a highly legalistic regulatory means of doing business, which says, “This is the way we do it today, so this is the way we will always do it in the future.” Against that, there is the wider concept of outcome-based equivalence, which says, “Yes, we know what standards we need to meet, but we want to find our own ways, our own rules and our own efficiencies in achieving them.” The EU is now in a real minority, as it is virtually only the EU that takes the route of harmonisation.

There are those in the forthcoming negotiations who will say that, to have access to the single market, Britain must accept dynamic alignment—in other words, we must automatically change our rules in line with the EU. The Prime Minister will have 100% support from the Conservative party if he rules out any concept of dynamic alignment, which would leave Britain in a worse place in terms of taking back control than we are in as a member of the European Union.

The debate we are embarking on is about a clear choice. At no point in the European debate was there the option of maintaining the status quo: we either had to embark on our own course, controlling our own borders, our funds and our future; or we remained tied to an economic and political model of the European Union that is utterly dependent on ever-closer union. I have never believed that ever-closer union is in Britain’s national interests, and if the bus has the wrong destination on the front, the best thing to do is to get off, which was what the British people decided to do.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Baron Excerpts

Wednesday 30th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising his constituent’s problem with UKVI and I will make sure that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary addresses it immediately.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

We all remember that the Opposition parties never wanted to give the people an EU referendum, even opposing our amendment to the 2013 Queen’s Speech, selected by you, Mr Speaker, an early Brexiteer, regretting the absence of a referendum Bill. Given that they have done everything they can to delay our departure, as we head into Christmas may I urge the Prime Minister, whatever their antics, to lead a positive, decent one nation campaign for a stronger economy to help those less fortunate that addresses the divisions in our country? We wish him well.

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for putting that so succinctly and well. That is exactly what we want. I think it is what the people of this country want; they want to get Brexit done and they want to move forward with a one nation agenda to unite this country, and to level up across the country with better education, better infrastructure and fantastic new technology. That is our agenda; the Opposition’s agenda is for years more of political dither, delay and division.

European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill

John Baron Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons
Tuesday 22nd October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

For those of us who felt compelled to vote down the previous withdrawal agreement and deal, I would suggest that this deal has indeed been worth waiting for, and, as indicated last week, I will support it in the Lobby tonight. The Prime Minister has proved his critics wrong. The withdrawal agreement has been reopened. The harmful backstop has been removed, and we have secured a better deal. All those who previously argued that that was not possible should perhaps now reflect.

No one is pretending for one moment that this is a perfect deal. As someone who voted leave, there are aspects of the transition period that I do not like. I question an element of the Bill. I question the EU’s say over our affairs, given that we voted to leave in June 2016. However, I also accept that compromises are required in any negotiation. Although I have qualms about the transition period to December 2020, they are manageable. For me, the elephant in the room was always the backstop. It alone could have trapped the UK indefinitely in a structure of the EU’s making. It alone could have denied us Brexit. It alone could have denied us the referendum result, and it alone would have made a bad deal—trade deal or no trade deal—more likely. That is no longer possible.

Now that the previous backstop has been banished, the pressure is on both sides to negotiate and agree a good trade deal. A good trade deal is therefore now more likely, not less likely, because the backstop has been removed. It takes two to tango. Both sides can now simply walk away, but it is far more likely—given their common starting positions, and the fact that it is in their common interests—that they will negotiate a good trade deal. No longer will there be any risk to the entire UK of not being able to benefit from trade deals that we might strike with the faster growing economies outside the EU, and meanwhile the Northern Ireland-Ireland border is kept open.

I suggest to the House that concerns about workers’ rights are somewhat misplaced, given the assurances provided by the Prime Minister and the fact that such regulations could be watered down only if Parliament voted to do so. We should have more confidence in our ability in this place to decide what is right, and such decisions will now be made here in Westminster, not by remote EU bureaucrats.

I urge colleagues on both sides of the House to vote for the Prime Minister’s deal this evening. It makes a good trade deal more likely, and it keeps the Irish border open, while ensuring that the whole UK leaves the customs union. Let us be honest with people outside this Westminster bubble. It has taken three and a half years to get to this point, and we still have not left. It is about time that we finally delivered on the referendum result. Let us now heal the wounds in this country and move on.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron). I will not be voting for the Bill this evening, because it is nothing more than a charter for a no-deal Brexit. The safeguards in the withdrawal agreement negotiated by the previous Prime Minister that would have ensured that we would not leave without a deal at the end of the implementation period in 2020 have now been removed. It is quite clear that the so-called backstop for England, Wales and Scotland has gone. The reason why so many Conservative Members who opposed the previous Prime Minister’s deal on all three occasions it came to this House are now so keen to vote for this Bill and this agreement is that it will deliver the hard no-deal Brexit they believe in, and in some cases have done for decades.

The hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay referred to the backstop having been removed, but the reality and truth is that for Northern Ireland the new backstop is an arrangement that will be there in perpetuity. As this House knows, the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) and I disagree on many things, but on this issue we are at one. In his speech, he made a number of serious assertions about the impact of not only the Bill but the withdrawal agreement on the Union and, in particular, Northern Ireland, and some Conservative Members sat and shook their heads, querying that. It concerns me that because of this terrible programme motion, there will be nothing to allow any Member, Committee or independent organisation to scrutinise and check whether his assertions are correct or false. Having read this Bill and the protocol twice, I think he is right, and we need to be sure.

[Mr Baron]

The right hon. Lady referred to me, so I thank her for giving way. Some of us were shaking our heads because we disagree with one or two of the factual statements made by the right hon. Member for East Antrim, but we are happy to pursue that conversation afterwards. As somebody who served in the troubles in the 1980s, I know that the Union means a lot to many ex-soldiers on both sides of the House. I can assure the right hon. Lady that we do not take this lightly. If I genuinely believed that this was a threat to the Union, I would not be supporting it.

[Anna Soubry]

The hon. Gentleman should listen to the voices from Northern Ireland—and it is not just the DUP or the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon); it is from across the community. This is a genuine threat, and it is incredible that Members of the Conservative and Unionist party are prepared to vote through this Bill when its attendant protocols will undoubtedly mean that there will be a separate arrangement for Northern Ireland in perpetuity. There is nothing in the Bill that will allow things to change.

I would also ask: how much better is our country since we had this referendum? Are we a happier, gentler people, and are friends, families and communities more united or are we divided now in a way that we have never experienced before? This Bill will do nothing to heal divisions; it will actually increase the divides in our society. That is a concern.

I believe with a passion that not one single promise that was made by the leave campaign has been fulfilled in any way, shape or form. We were promised a deal before we left. We were promised that Northern Ireland would not be treated any differently, and we were promised that it would keep and preserve the United Kingdom. We were made a promise that we would have the same trading relationship that we currently enjoy as a member of the single market and the customs union, and none of those things has been delivered in the Bill or any of the attendant documents.

I agree with the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy). He and I disagree on so many things, but on this we are at one. If this is so good, it should go back to the people. That should not be by way of a general election, which will solve nothing just as the 2017 general election did not solve anything—

Prime Minister’s Statement

John Baron Excerpts

Saturday 19th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, but I must say in all candour and humility that he misrepresents what I think is an excellent deal. It takes Northern Ireland out of the EU customs union and preserves it in the UK’s customs territory. It does not create a border in the Irish sea; it allows us together, as a single United Kingdom, to do free trade deals around the world. I think his constituents would want him to support this deal and get Brexit done tonight and on 31 October.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

I wholeheartedly commend my right hon. Friend for abolishing the anti-democratic backstop. On that basis, I will, having opposed the previous deal, be supporting this deal today. May I suggest this to him? Given that I and most of us in this place want a fair and good trade deal, and prefer that to no deal, does he accept that by abolishing the anti-democratic backstop we actually not only make a good and fair trade deal more likely, but we almost guarantee it given the common position we start from and our common interests with the EU?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is spot on. He is right that both sides have a strong incentive to do a very good, best-in-class free trade deal by the end of next year. That is our ambition and that is what we are going to achieve.