Network Rail

John McDonnell Excerpts

Thursday 2nd February 2012 Westminster Hall

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

Apart from the Catalyst study, most recently Christian Wolmar demonstrated that rail now has three times the subsidy that British Rail had, so there has been a tripling of subsidy and an increase in inefficiency, with higher fares.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and of course that includes paying for the bloated, self-interested mass of people at the heart of Network Rail.

I like to think that David Higgins is possibly the right man for the job in the appalling organisation we have, but he has a difficult job at the moment. During the time in question there have been the accidents at Grayrigg, Potters Bar and Hatfield. There has been pressure for prosecutions, but Network Rail has constantly said “Not our fault.” It has tried to escape and avoid blame. As to the recent accidents on level crossings, it is interesting that just in the past couple of weeks David Higgins personally apologised to the parents of the two girls who were killed. That is a different attitude from that of previous Network Rail management.

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[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I also congratulate the hon. Member for St Albans (Mrs Main) on securing this debate. I know that offering such congratulations is usually done as an element of politesse in these debates, but I genuinely congratulate her. This debate has been really helpful, and having heard from both her and my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) there is not much more to be said really.

I am really pleased that the hon. Member for Reading East (Mr Wilson) had that wonderful experience with Network Rail, and I hope that that experience is transposed to other constituencies, because it is very rare that we receive such a report about Network Rail. I am also sure that he will want to pay tribute to former Members who have lobbied on behalf of Reading—for example, Martin Salter—to gain the project that he described and bring it to fruition.

I want to address a limited number of health and safety issues, as so much else has already been said about other matters. Before I do so, however, I want to talk about the issue of bonuses. Way back in 2009, I tabled an early-day motion on bonuses, which was a reflection of how unaccountable Network Rail was. On that occasion, I think 51 Members of the House signed that early-day motion, and it seemed to have cross-party support. It urged Network Rail not to go ahead with the payment of bonuses that year, because it was laying off 1,500 track maintenance workers at that time. My understanding is that the bonuses were paid, on some scale.

May I draw Members’ attention to another early-day motion—early-day motion 2681—that has been tabled on Network Rail annual bonuses? So far, 28 Members have signed it. It would be very helpful if that early-day motion was supported. It is worded on a cross-party basis and draws attention to the statement by the Secretary of State for Transport in The Daily Telegraph on 19 December 2011 that

“Passengers would be extremely surprised if Network Rail attempted to award bonuses next year in the light of this action by the ORR”.

I urge hon. Members on a cross-party basis to sign that early-day motion, as well as noting the expressions of concern that have been made today about the bonus situation at Network Rail.

I am interested in rail because in my constituency we have a railway estate at Hayes. It was constructed by the old Great Western Railway and then taken over by British Rail, and it was built to house railway workers. It still is a railway estate, although most of the properties have now been sold off. Nevertheless, it still houses railway workers and their families, so I have taken an interest in rail for the past 30 years, based on the practical experiences of my constituents as they report them to me.

I must say that, tragically, my interest in rail also results from what happened under Railtrack. One of my constituents was one of the drivers killed at Paddington as a result of the tragic accident there, and there was the accident at Southall, which is literally one mile down the track from my constituency, where people were also killed. That accident also involved some of my constituents. So, I have taken a particular interest in health and safety matters on the rail network as a result of those incidents and the dialogue that I have with my constituents who are represented by their unions, the RMT, TSSA and ASLEF.

With regard to health and safety, I want to raise the issue of crossings. A number of Members have waged a campaign over many years to ensure that we rid ourselves of the crossings that we have, which are so dangerous. We heard this week about the findings against Network Rail as a result of the tragic deaths at Elsenham in 2005. Network Rail made a statement—I think it was made in early January—that it is proceeding to eliminate the crossings that it has. It says:

“Network Rail has closed 500 level crossings across Britain since April 2009 and intends to close a further 250 by 31 March 2014.”

My view, and that of many Members, is clear, and it reflects the views of the industry’s workers: the programme for the elimination of crossings must continue, and all high-risk crossings that we have identified must be removed, particularly those on high-speed rails. Replacing them with underpasses and bridges is the only way to ensure people’s safety. All other level crossings should be reassessed, with the ultimate aim of removing them also from Britain’s rail network. Although Network Rail has made its statement about the pace of change up until 2014, I urge it to consider how to increase that pace, to eliminate the risk.

The health and safety risks that resulted from privatisation, particularly from contracting out, are well documented. With Railtrack, there was contracting out—subcontracting—and then there was subcontracting of subcontracts, which meant that there was a failure to manage and monitor the quality of work. That was combined with cuts, particularly in front-line staff, even though there seemed to be a flourishing of management levels of bureaucracy within the company, which resulted in a high risk to workers on the tracks and the trains, including the drivers, and also, importantly, to the passengers. Track maintenance was brought back in to Network Rail, which was a major breakthrough, but we seem to be going down the same path as before, with a combination of a drive for cuts—it is argued that they are efficiency savings, but I would like to evidence that they are direct cuts—and potentially more contracting out. We seem to be replicating Railtrack’s mistakes.

In the current control period, 4, Network Rail is looking for the same level of efficiency savings as McNulty has called for, of about 30%, and they seem to be coming from direct cuts to staff. I shall read out some of the concerns that individual workers and groups of workers around the country have raised, via the RMT. I have met groups of staff as I have held meetings with union representatives. The signals and telecom teams in Scotland

“have been reduced from three to two workers, resulting in a large backlog in maintenance work, leading to the company offering 12-hour overtime shifts in an attempt to clear that backlog.”

That was a criticism we had of Railtrack. Front-line staff numbers were cut and teams reduced, and therefore to achieve cuts and savings long hours of overtime were worked, which had an impact on staff’s ability to maintain safety levels.

Another current concern is that maintenance gangs:

“in Scotland are faced with vacancies being left unfilled. Furthermore, cover is not being provided when gang members take annual leave, are on long-term sick or undertake extended periods of higher-grade duty.”

Again, we had those same problems under Railtrack, with gaps in front-line service provision. The workers also report that budgetary constraints have meant that signals and telecoms teams

“from Carlisle and Warrington are filling vacancies by working overtime. The effect is that gang members are working long and arduous hours with potentially serious consequences for both health and safety at work and the integrity of the infrastructure itself.”

In the north-west of England

“track inspections are now taking place every two weeks rather than the previous once a week inspection regime.”

Members might recall that under British Rail there were track inspections three times a week, so we have gone from that to once a week, and now to once every two weeks. In some of the recent reports, the accidents have been specifically connected to the track, and the lack of adequate inspection.

I can remember the debates in the House about another problem:

“RMT inquiries into the cause of the disastrous overruns over Christmas and New Year 2007/08 found that in the Overhead Line division vacancies were being left unfilled for long periods of time…the Doncaster OHL depot had a staff compliment of 40, however at that time there were 7 vacancies that had been unfilled for some considerable time. This represented a staff shortage of almost 18%.”

Yet another concern is that in

“the Anglia region S&T Teams have also been reduced to 2 workers. Where work is planned and risk assessed in advance this can on rare occasions be an acceptable practice”

because at least management can assess the work that the signals and telecoms team is going to undertake. However, in a rapid response fault team the workers do not know in advance what they are going to face, and when or where they will have work on the track, and that results almost certainly in risk but also in further delays in the work being done properly. Also in the Anglia region there are further reductions in the rate of track maintenance inspections.

What I am trying to point to is that sometimes we need to talk to the people on the very front line of the delivery of the service, which is what a number of us have done. Reports are coming back from around the country that because of the pressure under control period 4, which is looking for 30% cuts—and under the McNulty recommendations they will roll into control period 5—front-line staff are being cut and the number of inspections reduced, which will inevitably lead to the same problems we had with Railtrack, which resulted in one of my constituents dying.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

I support everything my hon. Friend has said about inspections and track. A little over 10 years ago, in the last days of Railtrack, I was asked by a friend from inside the industry to look at the track north of Hadley Wood tunnel, which is not far from where I live. It is a significant bit of track. My friend was seriously concerned, and wanted me to raise the matter with John Prescott, who was then responsible for railways. I did not manage to get down with my camera because I was too busy. Just north of that track are Potters Bar and Hatfield. I think that the two might be connected.

[Andrew Rosindell in the Chair]

[John McDonnell]

I can only state as baldy and starkly as I can that what my hon. Friend has just said is that we have been here before, under Railtrack, and that we seem to be replicating the experience under Network Rail. Everyone wants to look at the drive for efficiency and the reduction of costs, but all the reports we have seen so far are not about the lack of efficiency of front-line staff. The increasing costs are a result of the fragmentation of the industry, the division between rail and operations, and the lack of co-ordinated management across the network. My hon. Friend spelt out very clearly in his speech that that is where we fail in comparisons with the rest of Europe, where there is an integrated railway system that enables those efficiencies and economies of scale to be made. Network Rail is looking for savings and efficiencies in the worst possible way, by reducing front-line staff and increasing the pressure on specialists working on the ground, which results, I think, in increased risks to the health and safety of workers and passengers.

Will the Minister clarify when the Government’s White Paper is to emerge? I hope that we can have a genuine debate on the document and that we can go at it with a blank sheet of paper, a tabula rasa for putting our ideas back in. I hope that we do not have prejudices against public ownership, but that we look at what will work. The lessons from Railtrack, and now from Network Rail, are about investment in front-line services and about ensuring that if we are looking for savings we do so by overcoming the fragmentation. We must support those people working at the front line under the tiers of bureaucratic management we have had for decades, under both Railtrack and Network Rail.

Those are just reports collected from across the country. One exercise we could do during the discussions on the White Paper—I know we have done this before—is an extensive consultation across the country with the trade unions that represent front-line workers to get a feel for what is happening on the ground. Ultimately, it was the workers on the ground who exposed what was happening within Railtrack and eventually forced the change. Tragically, that change came too late for a number of my constituents, one of whom was killed in the accident at Paddington while others were seriously injured at Southall. I hope we have learnt the lesson from that and that in the White Paper discussions, we will look to the longer-term future of investing in an integrated system in which workers and passengers have much more democratic control and say.

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[Dr Coffey]

My hon. Friend makes another important contribution. I worked at the BBC for a short while, so I recognise that contingency can be a big part of any project cost. I also recognise that things sometimes go wrong and that people have to react quickly. I mentioned earlier an analogy with the Environment Agency. Some works were done by the internal drainage board. Funnily enough, the framework contractor for the Environment Agency cost about three times as much as other contractors. We do not want to fall into the trap of—I had better use my words carefully—the establishment figures being the only ones that end up doing the work, because they are almost part of the same circle. I think that that is the best way of saying it.

I welcome the closer collaboration. Abellio will be involved. There is a challenge for the industry. Things are already happening as a result of the McNulty review, before the Government have published the Command Paper. I am delighted about that.

Other things are useful, too, including technology. My remarks at this point may answer some points raised by the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington, who mentioned checking activity. I understand that things can be added to train roofs so that, instead of a visual check happening however often, a constant check can be made every time a train goes up and down a line. Simple ideas such as that one, which may cost a bit of capital—I get that—will build in some resilience. Instead of people being paid, frankly, to walk up and down—I am not saying that that should be got rid of entirely—such technology could be used to judge more intelligently the schedule of maintenance that needs to be done.

[John McDonnell]

That is exactly what the teams do now. They are not just walking the track; they are mobile and use new technology as well, but even teams that use new technology have been cut back recently.

[Dr Coffey]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for adding that point. Such technology has not been put on to the East Suffolk line and East Suffolk trains, so that is news to me, although clearly not news to him.

Hon. Members have already mentioned the finger-pointing. My hon. Friend the Member for Mid Norfolk (George Freeman) made an interesting contribution about whether alliances are enough or whether there should be mergers in respect of this whole operation, having train and track together. Let us challenge the way that Network Rail is structured and ask whether it is fit for purpose to deliver ongoing improvements and what we need.

On structure and governance, we have already talked about the complex structure that was devised in 2002. The coalition agreement specifically says that it will make Network Rail more accountable to customers. We look forward to the Government’s move on that. It would be useful to do something radical with Network Rail’s board and, instead of the 100 members, move to a 12-person board, for example, with a passenger group focus as part of that. Trying to manage that complexity is difficult. Hopefully, such a new process would allow for more focus.

I call on the Office of Rail Regulation to be focused on that in regulating Network Rail. The possibility of it going into train operating companies and other companies may be in the coalition agreement, but I would rather it stuck to the knitting and got that right before going into other matters. Passengers are clear when they are not happy about services. One way to try to regulate that matter would be to build it into the franchise or something similar.

I encourage Network Rail to stick to what it is good at doing. I was disappointed to hear—it has gone off the idea, thank heavens—that it considered setting itself up as a broadband operator. It is a clever idea to use things alongside the tracks to carry fibre, and similar, but the thought of its being in competition with BT Openreach was bizarre. Working with somebody who knows something is fine, as is becoming a conduit, but thankfully the idea that it would be the rival to BT Openreach went away.

Why am I interested in freight? Felixstowe, the leading container port, is in my constituency. It has rail terminals and a new one is going to be built. Putting freight on to rail is an important part of trying to reduce the percentage of freight on our roads. The Government are keen to do that, because it is good environmentally and it reduces demand on the key arterial roads throughout the country.

I encourage Network Rail to work with Hutchison at the port of Felixstowe so that it puts dualling in earlier. Due to the economic challenges that Hutchison said it was facing, it secured permission from Suffolk Coastal district council to delay that activity and had its planning permission extended, but it would make sense to do it now.

Some work has already been agreed—certainly, the consultation is starting—on the Ipswich chord, which, for hon. Members not familiar with Suffolk, would just add a bit of extra track, but means that, instead of many freight trains going into London and then out again to get to the north, those can go straight up towards Nuneaton. That makes a lot of sense and will free up a lot of capacity. To give Members a view of the costs, a 1 km stretch of track will be £41 million. Admittedly, that is not only for the steel on the track but for all the complexity of the other aspects. That is another example of the eye-watering amounts of money required for what one would like to think of as straightforward—perhaps I should not say that—key projects.

I also put in a bid for work at the Ely North junction, which would help freight traffic as well as certain passenger routes. Network Rail has a tough time with freight when connecting seaports; if Felixstowe or Liverpool close down, because of wind, rough seas or whatever, there is a bit of a problem. Dare I say it, however, the Network Rail people are paid a lot of money to solve difficult problems, so they must build that resilience into their timetabling and capacity building. The answer is not to do what happened to my hon. Friend the Member for St Albans, who suddenly had half the number of trains, because that is not acceptable.

Network Rail is a fascinating organisation. It is a case study of what can go well and of what can go wrong. However, the constituents of Suffolk Coastal and, more broadly, people throughout the country are fed up of being left waiting. It is vital that the Government grab the chance offered by the McNulty review and the Command Paper to put passengers and businesses first. Network Rail can be made to work, potentially, but the proof will be in the pudding, and I suggest to Sir David Higgins that, if we do not see much change within another year, we must question whether he has the capacity to make the changes necessary.

I thank all Members who have spoken so far. My hon. Friend the Member for St Albans will be winding up. I have enjoyed the debate and I genuinely think that there have been some fresh ideas that the Minister will absorb.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

I shall have to give a high-speed reply to get through the various points that have been raised by Members this afternoon. It has been a very good debate, and I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for St Albans (Mrs Main) for introducing it.

The coalition Government are delivering the biggest and most ambitious rail upgrade programme since the Victorian era. I would go so far as to say, without hyperbole, that this is the most pro-rail Government that we have had for decades. Despite pressure on budgets, we have made a strategic choice to increase capital investment in those parts of the infrastructure that best deliver sustained and sustainable economic growth, including rail. That is why £18 billion was allocated in the 2010 spending review to deliver an ambitious programme of investment in rail infrastructure and rolling stock.

Our problem now is success: there are more people on the railway now than at any time since 1929, with a network about half the size. My hon. Friend the Member for Northampton South (Mr Binley) is absolutely right; this is all about capacity, which is why we must get on with High Speed 2. We will try to deliver it as soon as we possibly can, and if we can, we will bring it forward, but we will not over-promise on what we can do on that or on anything else.

Many projects are going ahead, including Thameslink and Crossrail. I will not bother listing them all. Suffice it to say that we have a progressive programme of electrification that involves not simply one or two schemes. We want progressively to electrify the entire network and have already announced schemes that were not envisaged by the previous Government.

As Sir Roy McNulty found in his independent analysis of the value for money of the industry, our railway is the most expensive to run in Europe. It is up to 40% more expensive than some on the continent. Taxpayers and fare payers have shared the burden of inefficiency through some of the highest fares in Europe and some of the highest public subsidies, but this high-cost status quo is no longer an option. It is bad for passengers and bad for taxpayers, and we intend to deal with it.

Alongside our commitment to modernise and improve the network comes an equally crucial commitment to drive down costs and improve the efficiency of the railway, which was the third choice to which my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton South referred in his contribution. In large part, that involves addressing the concerns that my hon. Friend the Member for St Albans and others have raised about Network Rail’s accountability and performance.

Sir Roy concluded that efficiency savings of up to £1 billion a year could be achieved by 2018, without radically restructuring the industry, cutting services or compromising quality or safety. However, that will require all parts of the industry to focus attention on driving out waste and driving up efficiency. If they do that, we can have the long-term growth future for the railway that I for one want to see. We also want to end the era of above-inflation fare rises and the RPI plus 1% formula that was introduced and happened year on year under the previous Government.

Hon. Members have asked about the Command Paper. It will be published shortly—I think that “shortly” is an official word in civil service speak—and will build on the findings made by Sir Roy and set out a blueprint for rail reform. Developing the role of Network Rail will be at the heart of the Command Paper. Although Network Rail is not perfect, it is not Railtrack, and Sir David Higgins is not Iain Coucher, so I hope that hon. Members can take some comfort from that.

The railway needs an infrastructure operator that is responsive, accountable and able to deliver the best possible results for operators, fare payers and the wider population who fund it through the public purse. Equally, Network Rail must be better incentivised. Reform of Network Rail’s structures and governance is therefore a key part of the Government’s rail agenda. Let me give this absolute assurance to the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell): we are determined that no changes should be made that would jeopardise the impressive improvements in safety and punctuality made by Network Rail and the rail industry in recent years.

We know about the tragedy of Grayrigg in February 2007. I am not being complacent when I say that that was the last tragic event in which a passenger died. It is worth pointing out that there were four deaths at level crossings in 2010-11. That is four too many, but it is the fewest such deaths that we have had for a decade. Efficiency does not mean compromising safety.

[John McDonnell]

On Grayrigg, the ORR said:

“the company’s failure to provide and implement suitable and sufficient standards, procedures, guidance, training, tools and resources for the inspection and maintenance of fixed stretcher bar points”

was a key issue that caused that death. The same depot responsible for that stretch of line has just had a 15% cut in its budget.

[Norman Baker]

The fact that efficiency savings or reductions in numbers take place does not necessarily mean that safety is affected. Obviously, the hon. Gentleman’s point has been well made, and I will take it back with me. Network Rail today is a significantly improved body from what it was in February 2007. None the less, we share the Office of Rail Regulation’s concerns about certain aspects of the company’s recent performance, such as punctuality over the past 12 months, some weaknesses in safety culture and poor implementation of integrated train planning under certain conditions.

The Government look to the Office of Rail Regulation to hold Network Rail to account and to continue to drive improved value for money from the company. As part of that process, the ORR has set Network Rail a requirement to make efficiency savings of 21% in its 2009 baseline by 2014. It will continue to produce annual reports benchmarking Network Rail’s efficiency against its international peers.

The Office of Rail Regulation’s latest annual report states that Network Rail has made progress against its efficiency targets, but that it has more work to do to justify all of its claimed savings. When Network Rail delivers on its current commitments, the ORR expects it to have closed around two-thirds of this efficiency gap by 2014 and the rest by 2019.

A key part of the McNulty review is to see much closer working and alignment of incentives between Network Rail and the train operators. A number of Members raised that, and it is something that the Government are focused on and it will feature in the Command Paper.

We welcome Network Rail’s regional devolution initiative to focus its business down to the route level and to work closely with train operators. David Higgins is taking forward work on structural reform to form closer alliances with the train operators. Moves towards asset management concessions and improved supplier engagement are vital.

We recognise concerns that Network Rail’s governance has not, so far, provided adequate mechanisms for holding the company’s board to account. That has been particularly apparent in respect of bonuses. The Secretary of State for Transport has been rightly firm on that matter, as indeed has No.10, despite what we have heard this afternoon. We expect bonuses to be dealt with in a responsible and a sensible manner by Network Rail, as we do by others. However, the Government’s powers, which we inherited from the previous Administration, to deal with those bonuses are extremely limited. Let me remind the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) that in 2009-10, under the previous Government, Iain Coucher received a bonus of £348,184, and the top seven directors together clocked up £1,347,000.

High-speed Rail

John McDonnell Excerpts

Tuesday 10th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Justine Greening]

Yes, I did that. That approach would have cost £1.2 billion and I believe it is unaffordable.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

Because the Heathrow link will be in phase 2 of the project, my constituents will not know their futures until late 2014. Will the Secretary of State ensure that HS2 Ltd opens up its books and shares the information about the range of options it is considering for the link at the earliest stage?

[Justine Greening]

One of the things that we have always tried to balance is getting assurance about what our lead proposals are so as not to cause unnecessary blight and trying to share information with residents as soon as possible. I believe that we will be able to start informally consulting local groups later this year and in 2013. We will do the formal consultation—the sort that the hon. Gentleman has seen on the first phase of this route—in 2014.

Aviation Industry

John McDonnell Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Westminster Hall

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I shall be as quick as I can, because others want to speak. This will be the first debate in perhaps two decades when our colleague Alan Keen has not been with us, and I pay tribute to everything that Alan did over the years. On a happier note, I, too, welcome Rosie. Given the interest in aviation shown by my hon. Friend the Member for Central Ayrshire (Mr Donohue) she clearly arrived by stork.

I obviously have an interest in Heathrow, which is in my constituency, because of my constituents who work there, fly out of there and live around it. With reference to those who live around Heathrow, I want to tell BAA and colleagues who are present that the third runway is dead: that is it; it is over; it is finished. All major political parties have made it clear now that it will not be built. As to my hon. Friend’s novel idea about Northolt, this is almost becoming personal now—they are coming at me from all ways. Northolt was ruled out a long time ago because of its impracticality. It would cause just as many problems as expanding Heathrow. I understand the Government’s interest in making Heathrow more efficient, but experimentation around the Cranford agreement, moves towards mixed mode and, certainly, any attempt to increase the number of night flights would be resisted, because of noise and pollution. Nevertheless it is worth examining how we can make Heathrow much more efficient.

Despite everything that has been said by all the major parties, the blight in my constituency continues because of BAA’s continuing angst and lobbying for the third runway. It needs to be made even more explicit now to BAA that that is not going to happen. I say that—people may have seen the television programme last night—because BAA has bought up nearly two thirds of Sipson and refuses to sell the properties to families. It has made them available to families on short-term licences of up to two years and no more, although it now tells us that those licences are possibly renewable. It is destabilising the village. In addition, the threat of the third runway that BAA keeps mooting is still blighting the villages of Harmondsworth, Longford, Harlington and Cranford Cross.

One solution—I say this to the Government on a cross-party basis—is to agree to put in place a similar covenant to the one at Gatwick that will ensure for generations that there is no further threat of a third runway in the area and that is legally enforceable and binding.

We have discussed the role that High Speed 2 could play in alleviating the pressure on Heathrow. I support High Speed 2, but we need a consultation on the routes into Heathrow as soon as possible. Not consulting on the overall route has caused further blight, particularly within the London borough of Hillingdon.

An issue has come up this week involving my constituents who work at Heathrow. The European Transport Workers Federation, the union representing aviation workers across Europe, held a demonstration on Monday about the deregulation of ground handling services such as baggage handling, ticketing and general passenger facilities. They are concerned that deregulation might not only put security operations at risk at airports across Europe, but affect staff health and safety.

On another staff issue, Heathrow is still a wonderful area of employment opportunity for all west London constituencies. It is still recruiting staff, yet the Government are consulting on closing the Heathrow jobcentre, a reduction of six staff members. Employers and unions alike have urged the Government to rethink, as it is one of the best recruitment facilities at the airport for ensuring that local people are attracted into employment and that the skills base in the area is developed.

Both staff at the airport and those flying out of Heathrow are affected by an issue that the British Airline Pilots Association raised with its members recently. The European Union is seeking to relax the flight time limitations on pilots. Britain has the gold standard, which ensures that we have the best safety standards in the world, but the European Union is seeking to undermine that gold standard and bring us into a system that reduces protections and weakens regulations. BALPA, the trade union for pilots, has made it explicitly clear that it is extremely anxious about the safety implications of the moves within Europe.

Those are the issues that I wished to raise in this debate. On the expansion of Heathrow, there comes a time when my hon. Friends must recognise that they are no longer in the majority but in a small minority. Continuing to harp on about the need for a third runway not only destabilises the population around Heathrow, but prevents our getting on with developing a proper aviation policy that is integrated with transport overall.

Cost of Motor Insurance

John McDonnell Excerpts

Tuesday 8th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I will be as brief as I can be, because my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) is clearly keen to speak early and at length on the subject of his Adjournment debate, and because everything has been said. Anybody reading this debate in Hansard will be impressed by the amount of work and time that individual Members have spent performing research in their constituencies. This subject is close to many of our hearts.

I wanted to speak because when constituents approach us, particularly young constituents, we have a duty to ensure that their voice is heard in this Chamber. I was approached by a young man called Joshua Deacon, who lives in the London borough of Hillingdon. He has experienced high insurance costs. He did a mini survey and a petition on the internet because he thought that the same must be happening to his friends. He found costs ranging from £2,000 up to about £20,000, which is ludicrous. His survey showed that a number of young people, particularly in my area, which is quite a geographical expanse, used their cars for work or to seek work, but that such costs were preventing them from travelling and driving them off the road.

The other concern that emerged, which has been expressed by other Members, is that the higher the cost, the more people there are who just do not insure themselves. Like the hon. Member for Bradford East (Mr Ward), I went out with my local police, and the first arrest was of an uninsured young person. He was not driving particularly dangerously, but it was obvious from his driving that he was young. When he was pulled over, he was found to have no insurance. The worry, given what is happening in my constituency, is that as unemployment increases and incomes decrease, more and more people will be unable to pay their insurance costs. As a result, there will be an increase in criminality.

As a result of my young constituent’s efforts, a number of months ago I put down an early-day motion on this subject. The responses that I received from the insurance companies were exactly as have been reported here. With regard to Northern Ireland, I think that there is a cartel in operation. One particular area of the country is being exploited as a result of the insurance companies working together to produce higher rates. In fact, I believe that is happening more broadly as well.

I have received the same responses from insurance companies as are mentioned in the report. They say that the figures are based on actuarial valuations and on the high level of accidents involving young people. We all understand that completely, but we cannot understand why the situation has not changed despite the fact that we have been knocking the subject around for so long in the House. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), who has persisted with it through the Transport Committee. Time and again, we have come up with a list of suggestions, many of which the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) listed. We have suggested graduated licences, restrictions in use, curfew arrangements, limits on the number of passengers and where they are located, and alcohol restrictions. In addition, we raised some time ago the idea of black boxes and speed limiters being inserted into cars.

[Sammy Wilson]

I can fully understand the hon. Gentleman’s point about the cost of insurance premiums for young people, but does he not feel that imposing restrictions on freedom such as curfews on top of high insurance premiums would be unfair, even if it were enforceable? For many young people, getting their driving licence is their ticket to freedom. To tell them that they cannot go out at night or have their friends in the car is not fair, especially when most young people drive responsibly and do not race around the roads causing accidents.

--- Later in debate ---

[John McDonnell]

I fully agree, and that was why, when the proposal for black boxes came up, I thought it was the ideal solution. It would enable someone to demonstrate that they were driving carefully and not at speed. I thought that could have been the technical solution, or at least could have moved us a bit further on. I cannot for the life of me understand why it has not been taken up by the insurance industry as well as it should have been. So far, Co-operative Insurance and others have offered some voluntary schemes, but they do not seem to have had the take-up that they should have done.

The question, then, is how we move forward. We know that a range of solutions could be put in place, and that a technical solution could be introduced on a voluntary basis to give people incentives and reduce their costs. I believe that the next stage is to bring the matter back to the Government. We have tried exhortation in the past, but we need to try it again, as was said earlier. We need another meeting at which we bring all the insurance companies together and exhort them to consider financial incentives for young people. We have such arrangements in acceptable behaviour contracts in other areas. People could sign up to certain behaviour patterns if they so wished, which would enable us to monitor them using technical solutions so that we could reduce their overall insurance costs.

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

I wonder whether, when that is being considered, it might be possible to consider the circumstances that two or three of my constituents have found themselves in. Young people have applied for insurance online and the insurance company has agreed a premium and formed a contract with those young people to provide insurance, but has then come back six or eight weeks later with a much increased premium, ostensibly because something was originally incorrect. That has certainly happened to young women in my constituency with the Diamond insurance company.

[John McDonnell]

It is almost like the policy of excess that has been developed for other insurance costs. I believe that the onus is now on the Government to bring the insurance companies in for a thorough discussion about how we can take forward voluntary arrangements. However, there will come a time, which I believe we are nearing, when if we cannot get in place voluntary arrangements and incentives that work, we will have to introduce regulation.

Like many other Members, I cannot cope any more with driving along the road and seeing shrines to people who have died. The number in my area seemed to be peaking at one point, although I have not looked at the recent statistics. A large number of young people were being killed on the roads, and we would drive down the road and see the bouquets of flowers and the pictures of those young people. It relates to the point that the hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) made about youthful exuberance—young people get their first car and are out on the roads, and sometimes it goes to their heads. They might have their friends with them, and unfortunately it often results in tragedy.

[Roger Williams]

The hon. Gentleman is making a very powerful case. I know that the hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) made a point about a restriction of freedom, but surely that is the whole point of a driving licence. People have to pass a test, and maybe there ought to be another test for them to pass before they can have unlimited access to a car.

[John McDonnell]

It is true that we need to consider a whole range of measures. I believe that we need to make another attempt to find voluntary arrangements with the insurance companies, setting out a range of activities that people can sign up to and that we can technically monitor. In that way, we could reduce insurance premiums. However, if that is not brought to fruition, we may well have to move on to regulation. That could mean more testing, and in fact that extra testing need not just be for young people. It could be much wider than that, because it is not just young people who are affected, even though the statistics that the insurance companies produce demonstrate the high number of accidents among young drivers in their first couple of years after passing their test.

In addition, if regulation is to be introduced, and if it involves imposing technical solutions, the insurance companies should bear some of the cost. If it is not willing to work with us in promoting voluntary solutions effectively, it should bear the cost.

To return to an earlier point, this is about reducing costs, but it is also about reducing deaths and accidents. That does not just involve young people, because collateral damage is also done to pedestrians and others. The House has addressed that significant issue effectively in the debate tonight, and now it is over to us to work with the Government to get the insurance companies to agree a strategy that we can monitor over the coming year or so. We can see whether that works, and take legislative action if it does not, to demonstrate our seriousness.

High Speed 2

John McDonnell Excerpts

Thursday 13th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I am worried that some Members on both sides will not have time to speak, so I shall be as brief as I can. I should be a prime advocate of this high-speed rail scheme, because I have in my constituency a railway estate that was constructed by the railway companies and then taken over by British Rail, which houses railway workers, and also because I have worked with the rail industry and its unions—the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers, ASLEF and the Transport Salaried Staffs Association—for nearly 40 years to promote rail and every railway scheme.

As was mentioned earlier, as part of our campaign against the third runway we used the argument that we should invest in rail as an alternative. However, I have been absolutely alienated by the way in which the Government have handled this issue. Every other Member in the House is able to calculate the effect of the scheme on their constituency one way or the other—the advantages or disadvantages—but my constituents cannot, because of the way in which the Government are consulting on it. They are consulting on the route, except for the route into Heathrow, so my constituents and those of my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) are living in a no man’s land of blight, because we do not yet know that route. We have had various indications and options but no direct consultation by the Government. Things are being done in two stages, and the second stage is meant to start in December, or any time now, but I believe that may be delayed as well.

What my constituents do know is that they face a continuing life of blight until this decision is made, because the vague options put forward by Arup impact on their homes and on a large amount of the social capital in the area, in terms of parks and open spaces. They also have relatives in the north of the London borough of Hillingdon who are losing their homes, and losing social facilities such as the excellent Hillingdon outdoor activities centre. There are also further threats to green belt land in the north of the borough. My two colleagues in Hillingdon who are members of the Government are unable to speak today, but they have worked hard behind the scenes as best they can to relay to the Government the uncertainties, the blight and the threat to people’s lives that the proposals are forming.

I urge the Government to publish the proposals on the links to Heathrow as rapidly as possible, so that my constituents can know where the future lies for them and so that we can have a proper consultation. I also urge the Government to start looking at some of the details of the route, and at the blight and damage it is causing, to see how they can obviate some of the threats that it brings.

We should consider not just the link into Euston, but HS2’s impact on north London overall. There is a wider debate to be had about whether the route is the most appropriate one, because the concerns about environmental damage are mounting up to such an extent that I am becoming increasingly convinced that the economic arguments do not outweigh the environmental damage threatened by the route.

I welcome the Transport Committee’s examination of the proposal, but I find it difficult to know how it will examine the proposal when the Government still have not told us what their proposals are for the links to Heathrow. The Government should learn the lesson that it is not the right way to handle a scheme or a consultation when one of the prime elements of the scheme is not published or consulted on comprehensively in a way that links the whole scheme together. The Government have completely mishandled the scheme—and I speak as one who would be a natural advocate of the advancement of rail in this country.

High-speed Rail

John McDonnell Excerpts

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Westminster Hall

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I want to make a brief point with a constituency interest. I have supported the principle of high-speed rail for several years as part of the campaign to avoid the need for a third runway at Heathrow, so I was extremely pleased when the Government ruled out that runway and came out in favour of high-speed rail. However, the way in which the consultation is taking place is undermining support for high-speed rail in my constituency, because it is focusing on high-speed rail throughout the London borough of Hillingdon without commencing the consultation about links with Heathrow, which will take place after the consultation on the main High Speed 2 link. We have been told that we will have information on that at the end of the year, or perhaps in 2012 or later.

The Minister knows that I have raised the matter before, and my view is that if there is to be consultation on the various routes, it should be comprehensive and include the whole route. I agree with the hon. Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart), who has said that there are other options that need to be thoroughly investigated, but to consult on High Speed 2 without consulting on the Heathrow link at the same time undermines the consultation process.

My constituents have successfully fought off the blight of the third runway, despite BAA buying up half of Sipson village and not selling off the houses, but they are now affected by the blight from high-speed rail, because we do not know the exact route into the airport. If we could at least have had the full consultation at the same time, my constituents would have more certainty about their future and would be able to reach a view. Staggering the consultation is breeding suspicion—unnecessarily, I hope—that their homes will again be affected.

The Government have gone about the matter in completely the wrong way, and I urge the Minister to ensure that information on the Heathrow link is published no later than the autumn, and that the consultation starts no later than the autumn. We would then have an accurate view of what Hillingdon residents think about the concept of high-speed rail.

Greenock Coastguard Station

John McDonnell Excerpts

Wednesday 8th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mike Penning]

Of course. I was still responding to the intervention made by my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth and when I have finished dealing with it, I will discuss the points that the hon. Lady has raised. In that intervention, I was asked specifically what will happen later in the process. We will announce our proposals once we have taken into consideration the Select Committee’s report. That means that I will have to reopen the consultation, but I stress that that will be just to allow that report to be taken into consideration. If I did not do so, I would be insulting the Select Committee and there is no way I intend to do that. The Government will announce their conclusions before the summer recess—as we have said all the way through, they are likely to be different—and then I will reopen the consultation. That is the right and proper way to proceed if we want to work with the public, with the service and with Members of this House. It is different from the way in which a lot of consultations have historically been carried out over the years, but I do not think this will be a one-off; I think that the Government will take this approach on a regular basis. I recall a consultation on my local general hospital in which 85% of respondents said they did not want the hospital to close, yet it was closed in any case. No consideration was given to people’s concerns. Does this approach mean that everybody is going to be happy? No, of course it does not. However, proper consultation will take place again once we put forward our proposals.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I apologise for arriving so late to the debate and I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. It would be very helpful if he gave a commitment at the start of that consultation to avoid compulsory redundancies at every stage in the process from there on in.

[Mike Penning]

I hope that there would not be compulsory redundancies, but I cannot give that commitment and I am not going to stand at this Dispatch Box and mislead people. The PCS has known that all the way through. It is important to understand that there will be job losses if we reduce the number of co-ordination centres, although I hope that such job losses will not be compulsory. I have gone through redundancy, despite my union fighting to help me, so I understand where people are coming from. However, if I am going to increase salaries, training and career prospects, I have to find that money from somewhere and that money will come from the savings we are finding. There are quite significant costs up front, particularly for the resilience we want to put into the system. The Treasury has been generous and I have money, but I cannot carry that forward—I must make savings. To be fair, the union—

McNulty Report and West Coast Rail

John McDonnell Excerpts

Thursday 19th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

I do not want to pre-empt the rail fares policy review, to which I am sure that my hon. Friend will make a submission, but I have recently enjoyed meeting the Northampton rail users group, and the Minister of State has just said that she would be happy to meet the Kettering rail users groups, so perhaps we can carry a dialogue forward.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I refer to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. On a constituency matter, with regard to First Great Western and the handing back of the franchise, I would welcome the Secretary of State or the Minister convening a meeting of the relevant MPs along that line to discuss the security of service provision. This looks like a creeping re-nationalisation of the railway service—but there we are! However, as the Secretary of State said, there is a big staffing agenda. All three rail unions have welcomed the opportunity to work with the Government on that agenda. However, it is crucial that they are represented at every level of the industry and in every forum discussing the staffing agenda. It is not conducive to good industrial relations to have statements about threats of further anti-trade union legislation at this time.

[Mr Hammond]

I will have to disappoint the hon. Gentleman on creeping re-nationalisation: there is not one, and I can assure him that so long as I am in this job, there will not be one. However, I am happy to meet MPs along that route to talk about the Great Western franchise. First Group will continue to operate the franchise until 2013, and it has assured us that it will operate it as normal and run the franchise properly during that period. It has every incentive to do so, because, as I just announced, our policy is that eligibility for participating in franchise competitions will depend on demonstrated ability to deliver co-operative working, and to bear down on cost pressures.

I am absolutely ready to meet the unions. In fact, I think my office is in the process of arranging a meeting with the rail unions through the TUC, which I hope can play a constructive role in this process—it is a process I think we all want—of making this a viable and affordable industry that has a bright future, and which will employ not fewer but more people as the railway expands on the trajectory of current projections.

Rail Engineering (Jobs)

John McDonnell Excerpts

Tuesday 29th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. I have a railway estate in my constituency. It was a British Rail estate constructed to house railway workers. Although many of those properties have been sold off, it still predominantly houses railway workers, many of them retired but many of them still working. As a result, I have taken an interest in the railway industry for the past 30 years. I am also the convenor of the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers group in the House. We come together as a group of Members interested in the railways to receive briefings from the union on issues of the day.

One of the key issues that has been raised consistently with us over the past year has been the current and future state of rail engineering in this country. Rail engineering concentrates on renewals, which includes the installation of new overhead lines and signals and the laying of track. It is skilled work and we have a skills base of trained and experienced workers developed over centuries. It requires that skill to produce the quality of work that ensures a safe transport system for the travelling public. We have learned to our cost over the years that if there is any undermining of that skills base, it produces accidents. I lost one of my constituents in the Paddington disaster, and others were injured in Southall.

Network Rail, the not-for-profit company that was established by the previous Government, is responsible for the rail infrastructure and for rail engineering. Network Rail puts out to tender to private companies all the renewals work. Jarvis was a major contractor in the field of renewals until a year ago, almost to the day. On 31 March 2010 Jarvis went into administration. Some 1,200 workers—skilled railway engineers—across Britain were sacked. That put a large section of the rail engineering skills base of this country in jeopardy and it is still impacting on the industry.

The impact on the workers and their families was disastrous and heart-rending in many cases. They were paid only statutory redundancy. Their accrued benefits were lost, and active and retired members of the Jarvis pension scheme suffered detriment to their pension entitlement. I have met a number of the ex-Jarvis workers and it has been extremely distressing. They appealed to me to explain to the House just what had happened to them and the effect of being sacked in that way. They asked me to give a couple of examples.

I met Mick. He was one of the workers who explained that they were sacked the week that they were due to be paid four weeks’ money, and the mortgage and bills still had to be paid. The loss of his job led to a strained relationship with family members and severe financial difficulties. They were forced to sell the family car. He suffered medical problems as a direct result of the stress brought on by his redundancy. The chief grievance for him is the pain of knowing that his former work is still being done, but by someone else on less pay and with worse conditions.

I met Brian, who had worked for Jarvis for 36 years. He had been a skilled worker. He told me that

“to sign on unemployed is soul-destroying and we have to live off our savings to pay for food and bills. I have applied for lots of jobs, over 50, and have received only one reply. I was unsuccessful in that application.”

He went on to say:

“The future looks bleak. I feel very let down by Jarvis and Network Rail for putting us in this life-changing situation.”

The last individual I met, Martyn, is in work. He said that other rail contractors have taken

“advantage of sacked engineers’ desperation to find work”.

He said there are now

“low wages, poor terms and conditions; long hours; zero hours working; long driving times and a culture of keeping quiet about safety for fear of not being picked for contracts… I hope my fears about accidents and death on a railway I just don’t recognise anymore prove to be untrue.”

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate and on his speech. Could he explain, if he knows, why the valuable and skilled workers of Jarvis were not taken into direct employment by Network Rail at the time of Jarvis’s collapse? Clearly, all their work was done for Network Rail anyway, as there are no other railway services in Britain to work for.

[John McDonnell]

I will explain, but first I will give another example of what I found among ex-Jarvis workers. We met workers who are now touring the country picking up days of work. These are skilled engineers, but some of them are unable to afford proper accommodation because they are now agency workers on low wages and are having to sleep in cars and vans so that they can pick up a day’s work wherever they can.

Let me explain what happened, because lessons need to be learned from what happened for the future of rail engineering in this country. Jarvis’s bankruptcy did not need to happen. It was forced into administration because Network Rail deferred renewals work to comply with the Office of Rail Regulation’s decree that it needed to make a 21% saving over the five-year control period 2009 to 2014. Jarvis’s bankruptcy was not the result of the recession. Despite the cash-flow problems, it had £100 million-worth of work on its order book.

My hon. Friend the Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) referred to the fact that Network Rail refused a rescue plan from the administrator for Jarvis’s rail division. The administrator put forward a proposal for a £19 million investment to cover the running costs and wages for a couple of months of operation, which would have enabled the staff of Jarvis to be transferred in an orderly way to other companies that were picking up the Jarvis contracts. That was rejected by Network Rail, and the Government refused to intervene and use their legal powers under the Railways Act 2005 to treat Jarvis’s work as an essential railway activity, as that would have allowed them to step in and protect the work and the workers themselves. We now know from freedom of information requests that the Government knew months in advance of Jarvis’s imminent crash.

The lesson is that we must never again allow the failure of one company to put railway engineering at risk in this way, because the results of this fiasco are horrendous. One year on, the majority of the ex-Jarvis workers are still on the dole and Network Rail is re-letting former Jarvis contracts to agency labour. We are discovering exploitative wages and conditions. Even if ex-Jarvis workers have followed their work, they have moved across to inferior terms and conditions. There is now a fear about the commitment and quality of the work being done by the agency work force.

The irony is that we now know from Deloitte, which communicated this to Jarvis’s creditors, that the book value of the rail debts that were written off was £10.7 million, and the vast majority of the amount that was written off was owed to Network Rail. If we add to that the cost of redundancy, which fell on the taxpayer because the staff were not transferred under TUPE, and the drain on the staff funds of the benefit payments for the unemployed workers, we find that the overall cost of allowing Jarvis to collapse into administration in this way outweighs the £19 million cost of the rescue plan that the administrator proposed. It was a false economy not to accept the rescue plan, and it had a tragic outcome for the workers.

There is also a longer-term cost that threatens the future of the rail industry and safe transport, because we are undermining the rail engineering skills base that we developed over two centuries. One of our concerns is that we have a demoralised work force, many of them unemployed, and that insecure work is being offered to agency workers with no stable future. We seem also to have undermined the attraction of a career in rail engineering, thereby jeopardising the recruitment of a future generation of rail engineering workers.

[Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab)]

Is my hon. Friend aware, as I am, having found out just 10 minutes ago, that there are people employed in this House—in the Palace of Westminster—through an agency that charges £20 per hour and pays them £6.15 per hour?

[John McDonnell]

The reason why I raise the issue of agency workers in the rail industry is that such employment practice is becoming the norm for a number of companies. It is reflected throughout industry, and if it has now invaded the House. I find that disappointing. We as Members should take it up, because it does not seem to be a particularly cost-effective way of employing staff. The agency receives a large cut, but there is very little reward for the workers themselves.

The irony of what happened to the Jarvis workers is that, during the period in which they were laid off, the previous Government and the incoming Government were planning one of the largest railway industry expansion and modernisation programmes that we have seen for perhaps 50 or 70 years. It has happened just at a time when there is a huge job of work to be done in modernising the rail network, with the arrival of Crossrail, High Speed 2 and the electrification of the Great Western main line. We need a stable and skilled rail engineering work force and a national strategy that will retain and develop those skills, so that we can complete that modernisation and renew and enhance our rail network. In the long term, if we are to ensure that stability, we should bring renewals back in-house, back into Network Rail.

The McNulty interim report demonstrated that, when Network Rail brought maintenance in-house in 2004, there was a saving of £400 million per annum. I believe that bringing the renewals back in-house would achieve the same savings, but all the potential for the development, improvement and modernisation of our rail network will be jeopardised if we go through another Jarvis-type disaster.

I should welcome the Minister addressing several issues, and I express my gratitude to the Ministers we have met in recent months. The RMT parliamentary group, RMT union officials and the TUC have discussed with Ministers the plight of Jarvis workers and the future of rail engineering, and I am grateful to the Minister of State, Department for Transport, for writing to Network Rail to urge it to work closely with the unions and to meet members of the RMT parliamentary group. We have heard that the new chief executive at Network Rail, David Higgins, has expressed a willingness to attend a round table of stakeholders to discuss where we go from here on rail engineering.

I should like to ask the Minister here tonight to look at a number of concerns about the future. First, what is to happen to the ex-Jarvis workers who are still on the dole? Network Rail could assist in resolving some of the problems of the ex-Jarvis workers by stipulating that new contractors employ Jarvis workers or at least give them first refusal in any application for jobs. Part of the problem is that it is not clear where the former Jarvis contracts have been awarded, so it would be helpful if Ministers could intervene, asking Network Rail to identify through its Sentinel system exactly how many former Jarvis workers have been employed by contractors and how many are still out of work. In that way, we could work with them to secure their re-entry into the industry.

It would be helpful also if pressure could be put on the individual organisations—the five main companies that took over the Jarvis work—to meet the unions and other representatives of the work force to ensure that we overcome some of the outstanding claims from Jarvis’s going into administration. The companies are BAM Nuttall, Babcock Rail, Freightliner, DB Schenker and VolkerRail. In the long-term interests of the rail industry, we should do all in our power to ensure that this never happens again in this industry—that we never go through another collapse of a company when all the various agencies and stakeholders just stand to one side and allow it to happen.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting that what is needed is for the Government to take a direct, hands-on approach to retaining skills and ensuring that those who have lost jobs get back into work again?

[John McDonnell]

Certainly. I will come on to an idea that I have about that, which I think will interest the hon. Gentleman.

To deal with the more immediate questions about learning the lessons of how this occurred, one of the concerns expressed was about the failure by Government to apply the powers of the Railways Act, which would have protected not only the contract work that was being undertaken but the workers who were undertaking those contracts. It would be helpful if the Minister could offer interested Members from all parties a meeting with the appropriate civil servants to discuss the procedures and criteria for when Government can apply the powers under the Railways Act if companies are threatened or in danger of going into administration, so that at least we get those procedures clear in case this occurs again.

I also ask the Minister to look at the arrangements under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 1981 to see how they can be amended so that we are never again in a situation in which workers are unprotected and are made unemployed, not transferred across, and then taken back on under agency conditions, and, as a result, on worse wages and with worse conditions.

I would also welcome the Minster working with us to review the protection of railway workers’ pensions. The original pension rights of those who worked for British Rail, which Members from parties across the House thought would be protected on its privatisation, have been undermined by subsequent pensions legislation—I think unintentionally so.

[Jim McGovern]

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is a scandal that TUPE does not apply to pensions?

[John McDonnell]

It is a gap in the protection of workers’ living standards, and this instance is a classic example of how people’s futures have been damaged when they thought they were secure. The material that was provided to railway workers on privatisation of British Rail—the leaflets and documents that they received in the consultations that took place—assured them of the security of their pensions for the long-term. But then, as privatisation proceeded and individual companies took over individual contracts, those assurances were unfortunately not adhered to, and subsequent pensions legislation has undermined the protections that they had. Because this is not covered by TUPE, many of the workers have suffered detriment. That is something that we need to look at, on a cross-party basis, I hope.

My final point is about the long-term future of rail engineering, and it relates to the comments made by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). We are now facing an immense task in seeking to modernise our railways, and the success of that cannot be put at risk by the lack of a skilled engineering work force. One proposal that I have for the Minister is that he convene an urgent, industry-wide jobs seminar to examine rail engineering employment needs not only now but for the long term, so that we can work together to safeguard and enhance skills in railway engineering.

[Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Surely that jobs summit, or meeting, must include provision for youngsters thinking of entering the industry to assure them that they will have a stable future and will be treated properly. The sort of casualisation that we currently have in the industry is undoubtedly a deterrent to entry.

--- Later in debate ---

[John McDonnell]

I think the experience of Jarvis has sent a message right the way through the industry that this is no longer a secure job. The message from what has happened to the ex-Jarvis workers is this: “No matter how skilled you are, you will not necessarily be properly rewarded in terms of wages, decent conditions or the long-term security of your pension, regardless of how hard you work and whatever skills you have in the industry as it now stands.” That is why it is critical that we take a lead in this matter and bring all the stakeholders together.

[Karl MᶜCartney (Lincoln) (Con)]

I have issues with Network Rail in my constituency, and I am interested to hear some of the information that the hon. Gentleman has given this evening, especially regarding the new chief executive. Does he think that the mindset of Network Rail has changed?

[John McDonnell]

I hope that it has. With the new chief executive, there is the potential for more openness and engagement. The previous chief executive even refused to meet a number of us on one occasion, although some of the less senior staff did.

I urge the Minister, as a matter of urgency, to get all the stakeholders in the industry together to look at the future of rail engineering and the skills base that we require. In that way, we can start planning the future of rail engineering on the basis of the needs that we now have, particularly as a result of the new investment that the Government are putting in. As I said, I think that this is a matter of urgency.

I save my last few words for the ex-Jarvis workers. I think that they have had an appalling deal and have been treated extremely badly. It behoves us as a House and those who are now in government to do everything we can to assist those workers to get back into work and to restore the dignity of work to them.

Rail Investment

John McDonnell Excerpts

Thursday 17th February 2011 Westminster Hall

[Mrs Ellman]

Thank you for chairing this important and interesting debate, Mr Owen. I thank the Minister for her response. I am pleased to see my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) acting so effectively in his new position. We have had a constructive debate, and I thank all hon. Members who have participated, including Select Committee members and others who find the issue important enough to have spent time and spoken here. The range of contributions underlines the importance of investment in our railways. Contributions have addressed the importance of investment in local stations, of local services and of developing capacity, whether in local, regional or high-speed rail services. I listened carefully to the Minister’s response. She has given some assurances. The Select Committee will be following up the promises and commitments that she made, and will take up the various points raised by hon. Members.

The report that we have been debating was concluded a year ago, but it is significant how highly relevant many of its recommendations and the issues that it raised are today. The Select Committee’s work is enhanced by the involvement of many Members. I assure all hon. Members here that we will be pursuing all the points that they have raised in our questions to Ministers and others responsible for delivering our services, and in new inquiries. I thank everybody for their constructive participation.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I apologise for coming so late. We were engaged in debate in the main Chamber. When the McNulty report is published, I urge the Select Committee to consider it in detail and give us the opportunity for a further debate based on the Committee’s consideration of the recommendations.