Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Barker of Battle Excerpts

Thursday 16th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab)]

4. What steps he is taking to help households improve their energy efficiency.

[The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)]

The thoughts of the House will obviously be elsewhere today, in remembering our late colleague Paul Goggins, on the day of his funeral, and I associate myself and my colleagues with the many tributes that have already been paid across the House.

The coalition is committed to transforming the energy efficiency of Britain’s homes and helping consumers control their energy bills. The green deal and energy company obligation have together improved over a third of a million homes in their first 10 months of operation, but even more importantly we have established the conditions to grow a genuinely economically sustainable energy efficiency market as part of our long-term plan to transform British homes.

[Tom Blenkinsop]

I, like everyone in the House, would like to associate myself with the Minister’s comments about Paul Goggins.

The Minister said last March that he would be having sleepless nights if fewer than 10,000 people signed up for a green deal by the end of 2013: just 1,030 households have signed up. Will he confirm that at this current rate of progress it will take until 2023 for his target to be met?

[Gregory Barker]

The hon. Gentleman is right. We anticipated that more green deal finance plans would have been taken out by this stage, but we have seen, and been taken aback by, how popular green deal measures have been. There have now been more than 117,000 green deal assessments, and new research published this morning shows that only 5% of people are not installing green deal measures as a result. If people choose to pay for these measures themselves, that is a good thing. The main thing is that people are installing green deal measures using green deal installers and that the green deal market is off to a good start.

[Chris Williamson]

It would be helpful if the Minister supported Labour’s energy price freeze, but clearly the long-term solution required to end the scandal of people dying because they live in cold homes is a massive energy efficiency programme. As we know, the green deal has been an abject failure, with 1,030 households signing up so far and a 93% fall in the number of loft installations last year. Will he explain why his Department’s policies are failing so badly?

[Gregory Barker]

Labour’s price freeze is a con, and everybody now realises that it would harm investment and damage the interests of consumers and hard-working families. Fuel poverty is a long-term challenge, but when the Leader of the Opposition was Secretary of State fuel poverty rose to record highs, just as it did in every year of the last Parliament under Labour. The coalition still has a lot more to do, but the fuel poverty figures have been falling, so perhaps the hon. Gentleman should read less rhetoric and more facts.

[Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD)]

May I press my right hon. Friend to put extra effort into those rural areas where poorer people predominantly live in solid-wall, stone-built properties and where, because they are off the gas grid, they are dependent on expensive fuels, such as oil and liquefied petroleum gas?

[Gregory Barker]

My right hon. Friend makes a very good point. The coalition has put new emphasis on tackling the deep problem of fuel poverty in rural areas. We are looking at this with renewed vigour and will come forward with further improvements to our fuel poverty schemes to ensure they reach those who need help in rural areas.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Precisely how many measures have been installed under the energy company obligation or the green deal among those special rural sub-populations and off-grid users?

[Gregory Barker]

I am afraid I cannot off the top of my head give the specific figure, but I will happily write to the hon. Gentleman with it and make it available to the rest of the House. I can tell hon. Members, however, that we are doing, and are determined to do, much better than the previous Labour Government.

[Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP)]

One way to increase energy efficiency is to have modern boilers. The current affordable warrant schemes under the ECO, however, do not include home fuel oil or LPG boilers, discriminating against those in rural areas who are off the gas grid. The Minister has said that the coalition wants to do something for rural areas, so will he look again and ensure that, as he has promised before, all such schemes will be technologically neutral?

[Gregory Barker]

We take this issue very seriously. We are meeting suppliers again next month, and I can assure the hon. Gentleman that there will be progress. That has eluded Governments in the past, but we are determined to make progress.

[Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab)]

The over-75s are most likely to live in homes with poor energy efficiency, most vulnerable to the cold weather and least likely to switch energy supplier, so they often pay more than they need to. Given the Prime Minister’s promise to put everyone on the cheapest tariffs, this does nothing to help 90% of the people, so will the Minister back Labour’s plan to put all over-75s on the cheapest tariff?

[Gregory Barker]

The Labour Government had 13 years in which to legislate and sort out the problem but did nothing. We have legislated to put everybody on to the cheapest tariff for their needs. This winter, more than 2 million households, including over a million of the poorest pensioners, will automatically receive the warm home discount of up to £135.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The boiler replacement scheme for Northern Ireland cost £12 million over the three years; it has been an outstanding success and achieved the high energy efficiency targets that were set. Will the Minister have discussions with the responsible Minister in Northern Ireland with a view to reintroducing a similar boiler scheme here on the mainland UK?

[Gregory Barker]

We already have live and up and running a cashback scheme to help people with boiler replacements. We think this is an important market and we are looking at it as part of our stamp duty rebate bonus to help drive the green deal and see what more can be done in the boiler market. I am going to Northern Ireland next month; if there is an opportunity to discuss this issue, I will certainly take it.

[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

2. What steps his Department is taking to tackle fuel poverty.

[The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)]

The coalition is committed to tackling fuel poverty. In 10 months, the green deal and energy company obligation have transformed more than 336,000 homes, of which about 250,000 are low income and vulnerable households, helping to cut people’s bills and keep them warm. In addition, this winter more than 2 million households, including more than 1 million of the poorest pensioners, will receive the warm home discount, worth up to £135.

[Mr Hepburn]

Since this Government came to power, the big six energy companies have made an unprecedented profit of up to £3.5 billion, while household gas and electricity bills have almost doubled. When are the Government going to catch up with the Labour party and the general public, take these greedy vultures into hand and freeze bills, rather than give what is effectively a taxpayer’s subsidy to the energy companies to give us a miserly £1 a week off our bills?

[Gregory Barker]

It is a great shame that the hon. Gentleman did not have that view when Labour was in government. Let us not forget that Labour created the big six. There were 14 major energy companies when Labour took office and those were driven into the big six. The big six are Labour’s creation. We are on the side of competition, technological change and the consumer; under this Government, we are putting the consumer first.

[Charles Hendry (Wealden) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend look at taking some specific measures to tackle fuel poverty for those who are off the gas grid? Will he encourage the use of syndicates, which can buy oil and LPG more cheaply? Will he look again at whether this vital sector should be regulated by Ofgem, and will he explore whether some of the revenues from future shale gas development could be used directly to extend the gas grid?

[Gregory Barker]

I take my hon. Friend’s points extremely seriously, not least because he did a great deal for this group of people when he was an energy Minister. Speaking as someone who is off the gas grid, I am delighted to say that I recently joined my local community’s syndicate for buying heating oil, and it has delivered a very good price. I encourage others to do the same. The good point that my hon. Friend raises is under review. We are looking at more effective data matching to identify those in fuel poverty in rural areas who are often much harder to find than those in similar circumstances in urban areas. We are absolutely on it; I can assure my hon. Friend of that.

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

There was anger and deep disappointment in my constituency this week when British Gas announced that, as a direct result of the Minister’s changes to the ECO, it is pulling out of the scheme that was due to deliver external wall insulation to up to 4,700 concrete houses in Clifton by March 2015. Will the right hon. Gentleman agree to meet me and local partners urgently to discuss whether there is a possible future for this scheme?

[Gregory Barker]

I will certainly meet the hon. Lady, and I shall be happy to look at the matter in more detail. It is primarily a matter for British Gas, which has an obligation to deliver, at scale, measures to help the fuel poor, but we are determined to ensure that those measures are enforced.

The ECO is now in good health, and we have extended it to 2017. Unlike the programmes introduced by the last Government, which were very stop-go and hand-to-mouth—for instance, the carbon emissions reduction target was initially scheduled to apply to one year but was then extended for another year and then another—the ECO will provide investor certainty until 2017, which is good news for the fuel poor.

[Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con)]

Identifying those who live in fuel-poor households is of paramount importance, and Members of Parliament, the Church and credit unions have a role to play in that. We in Northumberland invented oil-buying clubs in this country, and we now have 13 of them, covering almost all the off-grid provision. We have produced a leaflet of which we are particularly proud, which explains how people can reduce energy bills, and we are sending it to individual households.

[Gregory Barker]

I commend my hon. Friend for his excellent work on an issue that is so important to his constituents. I should love to see a copy of that leaflet. We are keen to find out more about the ideas that my hon. Friend is pioneering with his community, and to learn from good practice and spread it throughout the country. Perhaps we shall have an opportunity to do that when we launch our community energy strategy.

[Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab)]

3. What recent discussions he has had with power companies on their preparedness to deal with bad weather events.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

11. What steps he is taking to protect the fuel poor whilst seeking to reduce energy bills.

[The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)]

In December the coalition announced a package of policy changes to save hard-working families an average of £50 off their energy bills. The package also included proposals to extend the energy company obligation, which provides direct support to the fuel poor through to 2017. That gives crucial investment certainty to those rolling out our long-term plan to cut fuel poverty.

[Andrew Stephenson]

I thank the Minister for his answer. My constituent, Peter Chester, who runs Green World Energy Solutions, a company whose work focuses on households that qualify for ECO funding, is very concerned that the changes to ECO funding might prevent vulnerable households from being able to improve the energy efficiency of their homes. Can the Minister provide any assurances that that will not be the case?

[Gregory Barker]

Let me reassure my hon. Friend, who is a very effective local champion for entrepreneurs such as Mr Chester and for those struggling with high energy bills in Pendle. I assure him that the coalition has a long-term plan to slash fuel poverty. As we have extended the ECO out to 2017 and increased the number of people it will help, Green World Energy Solutions and other firms like it can now plan with real certainty to continue to improve the homes of thousands of families and help them to cut their bills.

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

12. What progress he has made in developing renewables obligation grace periods for renewable energy developers able to demonstrate financial closure of projects prior to March 2017 but commencing operations after that date.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

T3. When I met three businesses in Wrexham last Friday, they told me that the green deal was not working for them or for consumers. Will the Minister confirm that 99% of applications for the green deal do not proceed to completion?

[The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)]

Certainly not; I do not recognise that figure at all. In fact, new research published today says that over 80% of people who have a green deal assessment are extremely satisfied with it, and only 5% of those who have an assessment—over 117,000 have been undertaken so far—do not go on to install some of the measures that it recommends. We are not only assessing but implementing, and Labour Members need to get over it.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

We need a little brevity to get through topical questions.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Douglas Carswell (Clacton) (Con)]

A number of homes in Clacton and Jaywick have been insulated under the “Insulating Jaywick” scheme using ECO funding, but I am told that the funding is no longer available, work has stopped and many local people who thought they had signed up to the scheme have been left rather disappointed. Will the Minister please meet me to discuss whether any funding may be available and from what source?

[Gregory Barker]

I would be very happy to meet my hon. Friend. The message we have tried to give this morning is that the ECO scheme has actually been extended, rather than shortened, and the number of people who will be helped by ECO has grown as a result of the package that has been announced. I would be very happy to discuss specifics with my hon. Friend.

[Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab)]

T5. May I say, as a humanist and on behalf of the humanist society in this place, that we respect the work that Paul Goggins did and the way in which he was inspired by his faith? His passing is greatly mourned by all his humanist colleagues.Has the Minister visited Sellafield recently to see the wonderful work going on to get rid of the legacy waste from the Windscale nuclear weapons programme? Is he aware that the 10,000 highly skilled workers there are going to lose their jobs as a result of the plan to shut down the reprocessing plant? Will he meet the workers when they come to this place to address the all-party group on nuclear energy?