Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (Penalty Points) (Amendment) Order 2016

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chalker of Wallasey (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for bringing this amendment order forward. I particularly welcome this in the light of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 and the penalty points that are associated with this. Many points were made in the excellent debate last week, launched by my noble friend Lady Pidding, so I will speak only briefly now.

It is now several decades since I was responsible for road safety, and at that time I was responsible for introducing the statutory instrument for seat-belt wearing. On the way a few things which had not been thought of before occurred to me as a driver. They may be old hat to the Department for Transport but, if there is any value in my suggestions, I hope that it will take them on board.

In those days—I am talking about 1982—the publicity campaign was fair for the measures but it did not have the educational element which my noble friend has spoken of and which I believe he envisages for a campaign on this issue. Can that educational element also be introduced in school civics lessons, as well as being communicated to those who want to learn to drive? One needs to imbue in young people the dangers of using a hand-held phone at as young an age as possible. I frequently see cars with all the children in the back using a hand-held device. They are so used to it being an extension of their arm that we have to make them aware of the danger of misuse at a much younger age. That applies even to pedestrians who walk along the street with their eyes down staring at a phone. Therefore, the educational campaign probably needs to be rather broader than may at first seem necessary.

My second suggestion is that police forces should not go soft or easy—I do not believe that they wish to—on those who say, “Oh, it was only …”, when stopped by the police. If you are to make any campaign for public safety work, you have to implement it fully right from the start, and that is what I encourage my noble friend to do. If there is anything that I can do to help him, he has only to ask.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I want to make a very brief point. I was unable to take part in the obviously excellent debate last week, but everything that my noble friend on the Front Bench said pointed to one conclusion: if you use a hand-held device in a motorcar or any vehicle, then automatic disqualification for a period should follow. Six points are better than the current penalty, and a £200 fine is better than the current fine, although it is not a large sum of money. I believe that there should be a true deterrent effect. Personally, I would urge a minimum fine of £1,000 with disqualification for three months following the use of a hand-held device.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, what distinguishes the offence of using a mobile phone while driving is the fact that it is never a question of neglect; it is always based on a definite decision. We have a national obsession with mobile phones. They do more and more, and we have become increasingly dependent on them. That has undermined the impact of the existing penalty, so I am very pleased that the Government have reviewed this matter. We need to reinforce the penalty in order to make the message clear.

However, I do not fully agree with the Government’s response. I believe that the Explanatory Memorandum lacks a full appreciation of the seriousness of the situation. Recent research by IAM RoadSmart showed that 9% of the people interviewed admitted taking a selfie while driving. I ask your Lordships: for goodness’ sake, why? Clearly, that is a highly dangerous activity.

The drink-driving revolution took a generation rather than being an immediate response, but to have the same impact this legislation has to be well thought through. Therefore, I have some questions for the Minister, because there is now evidence that texting while driving is as dangerous as drinking and driving.

My first question is based on the fact that there is no need nowadays to use a hand-held device in the most modern cars because they have automatic systems that link your phone to the speaker. Therefore, what work are the Government doing with manufacturers to ensure that the systems design is as easy and safe to use as possible? What work are they doing with manufacturers to ensure that these are not optional extras for which you have to pay more but an intrinsic part of buying a new car and come as standard with new models?

--- Later in debate ---

I was intrigued listening to the noble Viscount, Lord Falkland, talk about his experiences in the cinema. I am sure his goddaughter and, indeed, all of us have probably learned from that experience that if you are watching something in a theatre or a cinema, the light from a mobile phone disturbs, although his escalation procedure may not be the recommended way forward for the DfT. I will ask him afterwards what his actions did for Anglo-French relations, and we shall perhaps return to that at a later stage.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, a number of us advocated disqualification for a period, and he has not touched on that.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

There was a final point on disqualification. I believe I have already touched on it. When someone is caught using their mobile phone and is referred to a court, instead of getting a fixed penalty notice, not only would they get a fine of £1,000—an HGV driver would get a larger fine—but they would also face disqualification. That is in the hands of the justice system and the magistrates’ courts. I hope that that answers my noble friend’s question. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked whether this applies to HGV drivers. Indeed it does. HGV drivers can be pursued through traffic commissioners who regulate HGV and PSV operators.

I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this important debate. The noble Lord, Lord Robertson, talked about experience around the world. Perhaps we do not realise the dramatic nature of the impact until we reflect on the statistics and the information behind deaths on our roads. When that is presented to you, whatever measures we take—what we are doing today or other measures—to mitigate those deaths reflects poignantly on the work of those who ensured that seat belts were fitted into cars. We owe it to all those on our roads and to families who have been impacted by those killed on our roads due to accidents often caused by people who use a hand-held mobile phone, send that text or check that social media tweet or Facebook update on the basis that it is only a second’s distraction. Recent tragic events on our roads have reflected that that one second of distraction can lead to a lifetime of loss for a family. I hope that in answering most, if not all, of the questions on the statutory instrument we can move forward in a practical way.